996 Not a real Porsche?

Just thought I'd light a match here in the 996 forum. Here's what was said in the Racing forum: "Good for you sticking up for the 996, one of few the track junkies....next you will tell us that it is the best lookng Porsche every made??? In the old day's Porsche would have to change very little to race there productions cars. Since the 996 came along..... They had to creat an entirely new model line to keep racing.... 996 is not a real Porsche in my book." Don't worry, you'll be able to find the thread.

You mean that my 996 is not a REAL Porsche??? Man, that pi$$es me off!

996 not a real Porsche? He**, it's not even a real car. LOL

some ppl like to stick to old technology. given unlimited resources i will ALWAYS have the latest p car.

I can apprecitate you guy's enjoy your 996 cars....Don't get to crazy on me. You did not build the cars. Here are a few questions I could not get past when I considered a 996. Why is the 993 holding there value while the 996 is depreciating as much as any other 911 based car. Why did Porsche go away from it's roots, change the power plant?..... Proffit..... Well it worked. they are the most profitable car company in the world. They did not get there building GT3's and Turbo's. The profit is in there production based models. No more hand built cars...Assembly line issues, quality issues. Interior O.K. at best, Styling not up to par. The power plant is a throw away, way cheeper to just replace than rebuild... The gear box is getting better, but not close to the G50 in durabiltiy. Porsche would not have a cup car if it was based on the stock 996 engine. They were not designed to withstand a race track. That is a huge compromize in my book. Let us all look back on what made Porsche what it is today.... Not the buisiness model of the 996.... If the fist 911 would have been the quality and Reliabiltiy of a 996, Porsche would have no race roots specializing in mini vans and econo cars. I do appreciate all that have purchased a 996,997,Cayman, SUV......Production cars....They are great cars. Without all of your $$$ Porsche could not afford to offer the GT3 or Turbo to the few that appreciate it. Again, try not to take it too personal. For me I will repeat, a 996 is not a real porsche. It is a compromize for the all mighty dollar.....

I heard that they were made in China, and are covered in lead based paint...

Joe....have you ever driven one? And I'm not just talking about driving one around the block. You can't even try to compare transmissions....they are different entities. Are you talking durability, as in they last long? The G50 shifts like a school bus. The depreciation issue is based on simple economics.....supply and demand. And if you could replace your sacred air cooled engine for half the price as rebuilding it....are you saying you'd rebuild it? I don't think so. A replaceable engine is a fantastic luxury in my eyes. And where the hell is it written that a 993 was not a "production" car? Geeeeez. Get off your high horse and drive a 996 on the track while using the A/C, and maybe, just maybe, you'll change your mind. I know you have never done that, as it surely would be in your evidentiary report already. Will the 993 go down as one of the best looking 911's ever? Absolutely. But to say a 996 is not a real Porsche is sheer ignorance. Your issues sound like they are coming from someone who really doesn't know too much about Porsche in general, but I am very confident that you are a 993 expert. I know the 996 outperforms the 993 in almost every single aspect. Do the doors of the newer car "snap shut" like the older ones? No....but that doesn't make a 996 not real. You sound ridiculous. Just my 2 cents...and this is coming from someone who also owns an '85 targa for the past 8 years. I'm just thankful that I own at least one real porsche....phewwwww. No flaming intended....not. Sounds like you jumped from air cooled directly to a 997.....prolly cuz the lights look better. J

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____________________________ WTF are you talking about? Do you even know? -As far as a 996's resale value compared to a 993's is concerned, it is a simple lesson in supply and demand. There were far more 996s made and therefore the values of these cars are taking a bigger hit. In case you haven't heard the 996 will outperform the 993 in EVERY way. PERIOD. END OF STORY -Porsche decided to abandon the air-cooled engine because it was inadequate to handle the extra horsepower Porsche needed in order to continue to evolve the 911 into the future. Don't get me wrong, I love the older air cooled P-Cars but they are old technology. -The interior and styling are more than up to par, in fact, I believe they are exceptional. The 996's interior has all of the modern touches but it still has its pure sports car roots. Go back to the 993 board and post your BS there where it is welcome and appreciated.

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I asked you guy's not to take it personal. But you did, It is ok. I enjoy when people have passion. Even if it is a 996, better than an Evo. 993 Board? I am am RS guy at heart. 964 being my favorate. Your quote somes up your mind set: You said: "Porsche decided to abandon the air-cooled engine because it was inadequate to handle the extra horsepower Porsche needed in order to continue to evolve the 911 into the future. Don't get me wrong, I love the older air cooled P-Cars but they are old technology." Based on your statement answer this questions? GT3, GT2, Turbo, Cup, RSR. They put out more H.P. but they are based on the same engine block that Porsche has been developing for the last 30+ years...."Old Technology", using your logic... Why don't all 996 cars have GT3 power plants??? Profit. Plain and simple. For Porsche to make money they comprimized. What do you think the next race car platform will be based on. Not the 996 motor, design will not handle it. So what good is the development of the 996 power plant? Not for racing. For profit.... Because of guy's like you it is working. I will retract my statements, apoligize and take my limited experience back where I came from. A 996 is a great car. I guess I am stuck in the past... Sorry.

Joe, I am curious, is the 997 a "real Porsche?" It is essentially the 996 with numerous improvements. Does that make the 997 a fake Porsche also? I am not going to even ask about the Boxster or Cayman, I already know the answer to that question. LOL

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Porsche actually went to water cooling because of stringent emissions and sound regulations in Europe. I will now go back to the 993 board and post some more BS.

A 997 GT3 has Porsche Roots..... The production 997 has many improvements but still a comprimize in the drive train....Boxer and Cayman are great cars that fit a nitch. Porscche hit a home run with there marketing. I have no problem with them. They are not the Flagship. The flagship should be the best it can be. To do that Porsche would have to put the GT3 drivetrain ( or turbo )in every production 911 based car. Not possible... The botom line would suffer. In the old day's Porsche was less focused on the botom line and more focused on a great car. That mentality just about broke them..... Long live all production based Porsche cars, and long live the GT3 for those who care....

"I will now go back to the 993 board and post some more BS." __________________ Thank You!!! That is all I ask.

i just don't get the purpose of these threads. It's like my XXX is bigger than your XXX. I love Porsches, no matter if it's aircooled or watercooled. I don't get this constant reiteration of how bad water cooled is. Do these guys think it will become thruth just because it's repeated ad nauseum? This is my first and last post on this type of thread. Just couldn't let it be this time. Bye

Nobody asked for your opinion. I don't understand people who want argue If you think It is not a sporty car, better for you. Just go to read the Nordschleife lap time of the whole 911 production, drivenby the same person.... You will find that 996 C2 did almost the same time as 993 TT (320hp vs 408hp turbo)...

damn a 996 is NOT a real Porsche??? WTF.....what am I to do?? Sell?? What am I going to buy?? I love my 996...but if it is not real..I got to get ride of it...but it depriciated too much....mmmmhhhhh I guess I am stuck until I become a gazilionair (or just millionair) and can buy a Carrera GT (or is this not a real Porsche either??) I am confused.

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... and the interiors are made with melamine to fake higher protein content!

Saying to Joe: go to the 993 board you are not welcomed here, it's just a plain stupid thing to say in my book. If we don't agree with him, I think we have enough 996 arguments to show him that he is not right. he has is opinion, valid or not but I always like to ear what he says because he is a true Porsche fan. We are here to discuss the models and it's always a good thing disputes like this one. Joe: the 996 4S is one of the most beautiful 911 out there, and don't forget that it was the 996 generation that gave birth to the first GT3 model (yeah, I know the 964 DNA of the engine ) in my opinion one of the best racing cars ever made.

Why is the 993 holding there value while the 996 is depreciating as much as any other 911 based car. Why did Porsche go away from it's roots, change the power plant?..... Proffit..... Well it worked. they are the most profitable car company in the world. They did not get there building GT3's and Turbo's. The profit is in there production based models. Dam, I knew that I shouldn't have sold my 993. If I only I knew at that time that it would be the last Porsche model ever made, and all of the following models would be phonies. Long live all production based Porsche cars, In 2000 I made a business trip to South Korea, and I'm now going to share a secret that is known by only a handul of people outside of Porsche. The reason that Porsche is so profitable is that they no longer manufacture cars. Hyundai has been building Porsches since the late 90s, and the cars have been shipped to Germany where the logos are attached. In defense of Porsche, the Koreans did build them by hand since they didn't have an assembly line at that time. So I have to agree with RS 197, that the 996 is not a real Porsche, but I disagree about the production line assertion.

Something is really wrong if someone is going to say the entire 911 line is the "Flagship" model. I do beleive that the "Flagship" model is or was the Carerra GT. Following that I would say GT2 not GT3 is the "Flagship" get a grip with this 993 crap....

Joe, Well at least we share a passion for 964s and especailly the RS. At the end of the day the difference between the 964 and the 964RS and the difference between the 993 and the 993RSCS are every bit as great as the difference between the 996 or 997 and the GT3s. For a long time Porsche has made a street focused car that was good on the track and a track focused car that was still good on the street but out of the reach of many buyers. As you pointed out, Porsche would go broke selling GT3s. It's was the 996 and the Boxster that saved the company and allowed it to get back into racing which we all appreciate. Where we differ is in the trackability of the 996. I guess we'll just disagree. I've got thousands of track hours in a 996 and I suspect you have none so you're not going to convince me. I'm pretty sure you're not going to change your mind and frankly I really don't care to so let's just call a truce. Jim

I'm sensing a head to head race. I can think of two drovers.

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Actually Reid I would disagree. Porsche "flagship" model, the one car that most people associate with the brand and recognize as a Porsche is the 911. Flagship does not indicate more exotic, expensive or better performance. BTW, I thought you're in town? Give me a buzz.

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^^^ I'm voting your post the most ignorant post on Rennlist. Tell your story to all the engineers, designers, test drivers and countless other Porsche employees that all their hard work to constantly improve the 911 was for naught. Tell them that the 997 - the best 911 to date - is also a waste of their time.

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+1

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Great post Jim. My feelings exactly.

+1 I see your point..... I agree, i dont think a 997GT3 is a real Porsche either, until I get a better job and can afford one!

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Sums it up pretty nicely I think!!

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There's a lot more water-cooled cars available in the market than air-cooled cars simply because Porsche made more of the former and the economic conditions of the time when the air-cooled technology was top dog simply didn't support the sales numbers of today. There's more wealth now in the 996/997 world than the 993 world. Supply is lower on the 993s, thus demand is higher. Let's say there were just as many 993s as 996s in the world... or oh boy, let's see how the 993 pricing adjusts if supply #s were reversed between the 997 and 993 for example. OH Boy is right. Agreed. Porsche is alive today thanks in large part to the Boxster and the Cayenne. They must grow or die. They must produce products that are attractive to more people in order to support a niche product like the 911 (a small ****, impractical sports car). The 911 must continue to compete against stiffer competition and keep that halo clean and bright. It's going to be tough but if anyone's going to do it, it's Porsche. Get with the times, bud. Styling is subjective. I love the 964 shape and the 993 shape, but do they look dated next to my 996? Most definitely. Is dated a bad thing? Not necessarily. The 911 is timeless, but it is not impervious to getting hit by the dated stick. Do we see you on Speed Channel? Money makes the world go 'round, bud. Not a real Porsche? C'mon man. Travolta's hair is not real Porsche. Kafka-esque. Camus. The absurd. I don't take your comments personally... and I don't think others here should either because we're talking about their CARS... not their wife, gf, grandpa, son, dog. Get a grip fellas.

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OMG Mattel just issued a recall on all 996s. We have to take them back to the nearest Toys 'R Us for a full refund. At least that will solve the depreciation isue. Phew.

I am new to the fold and must say, I just do not understand all this "real" Porsche thing...All I know is, that every time I get into mine and drive it, I have a smile on my face...what they had to do from an R&D perspective (racing for development, broader product suite (i.e. Cayenne, Boxter etc) to finance all this development etc.) really is ok with me, as long as I keep my smile every time I drive it. So call my car a "fake" or whatever you like...since your opinion is your opinion and you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine...and when I get into my car today for my drive home I know I will have that smile on my face again and anything you said about my car being "fake" or "real" really doesn't affect my smile... David - looking forward to my ride home... PS. Just don't tell me my Triumph Rocket 3 is not a real "Triumph..." LOL

What is the definition of a "real" Porsche?

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yes that were some of the goals, to name a few more, lower maintence, modular, smaller profile more power,...etc. The real reason however is... Porsche tested the aircooled engine with the 4 valve technology and the air cooled engine ran extremeley hot and air cooling was inadequet, it would of had to have a huge fan (that would of altered the 911 shape)in order to cool it. So in order to compete with other car manufacturers on power, they had no choice but to go watercooled. Hence the 996 engine is born.... no BS here. Engine designers will agree that watercooled cars are a better platform for making power...

Amusing thread. Someone always has to start a thread telling the world about his opinion of the relative merits of his favorite model Porsche vs. other models. It's pointless. It is EXACTLY the same as saying to the guy in the stall next to you "hey, my Richard is bigger and better than your Richard." Jeez.

I've heard the "it's not a real Porsche" thing about every Porsche that's not an air-cooled 911. It's getting old...

SO based on this logic the F430 is not a real Ferrari because Ferrari put more into the flagship 599? WTF. This is asinine. I love every 911 that has ever been produced. I have owned both 996 and 997S and both are great in their own right as was the 993, 964, etc. These arguments are old, tired and idiotic. If the old air cooled 996 is not a real Porsche why did it outsell every model in the history of the company? Surely the market is not into buying 70-120k "fake" cars right?

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Not if your a jackass!

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All the charcateristics of a VW Bug. When I drive my friends '87 Carrera 3.2, it reminds me of my high school friends Bug. Nothing wrong with that, it is a really cool feeling that the 996 does not have. What people are describing as a real Porsche is the lack of power steering, oil burning smell, and the lack of interior insulation. The older ones are just more rowdy if you will.

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It makes sense if Peter North said this to you..... You are exactly right.

I dunno, has anyone of y'all ever change the oil on a 993? Its a bitch, 2 oil filters and involving removal of rear wheel to access of them. I now have the 996 and did its first oil change the other day. It was like walk in the park. What ever Porsche is thinking or doing, I am all for it.

The only "real" Porsche --

^ Nice hub caps.

Just because an assclown douchebag says something doesn't make it so.

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Hey Rob in WA is a good guy!!

What I am getting from all this is a 993 is not a "REAL" Porsche as it does not have a carborator and it also has electronics a "True" Porsche would never have these... This is the other side "True" 911 owners would have with this hammerhead!!! Yea water makes it not a real Porsche just like fuel injection makes it not a real Porsche.. We can gripe all day shall I continue??

Damn, I just bought my first ever Porsche and it's a 996 CAB....you mean to tell me that I don't actually own a real Porsche...crap...it's ok, I didn't use real money...I used Canadian dollars...I feel better now!!!!

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I hate to ruin your day, Hoss, but we're at par, now. The only thing you could have done stupider than this was buy your car at Canadian prices.

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Ha! That's awesome! The only legitimate claim someone can make is the newer versions of the 911 are different than the older versions! The way I see it, ALL cars today are not "real" cars, because they are made out of thin, easy to dent steel! How can you tell if your car is "real"? It has to be made before 1977. Let your 5 year old kid sit on the roof and slide down the windshield onto the hood. If there is any damage, it's not a real car!

My Cayenne is more Porsche than your 964RS. Ask any soccer mom.

"Real Porsches" have lead weights bolted to ends of the front bumpers to improve weight distribution. I can't believe Porsche let that great history die without putting them on the 996.

Like the Porsche video "Everything We Know So Far" says, every new model of the 911 is an attempt at improvement, starting way back. To have an older 911, and say the newer 911 is not an improvement, or that the older one is real vs. the newer one is silly, and I'm sure all the "Real" designers and engineers at Porsche would beg to differ!

I know what you mean Bruce....BWTF...is a guy to do....I love my Pcar and the wifey is happy.... all in all Im really happy with my non-Porsche CAB....I think it's real black lead free paint...not "Made in China".

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I'm glad my 996 is not a real Porsche! Otherwise I'd drive around in a squeezed VW Beetle as the "real" 911 up to the 993 is nothing else than a Beetle. That's the reason why Porsche was almost bankrupt prior to the water cooled 911. The customers recognized that even VW developed further over the years.

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I still wouldn't let your kids lick your Porsche... better safe than sorry.

You know what they say Riad...."You can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friends nose".... I may have to let him lick the car this weekend, the car wash kit I order from eshine hasn't arrived yet and I need to give her a bath this weekend...she is a "dirty, dirty girl"....

and I like soccer moms...they are yummy!!!

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__________________________ First of all, I didn't tell Joe he was not welcome here. It is not my place to say such a thing. What I told him was to go and post his BS about the 996 on the 993 board because it always seems to receive a warm welcome there. Perhaps you should read my posts a little better in the future before you call my remarks "stupid." As for your comment about Joe being a "true Porsche fan", this sounds a bit stupid to me. Joe believes that MOST of the vehicles in Porsche's current line-up are "not real Porsches." Does this sound like a true Porsche fan to you?

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This sounds like a cue for some pics

Damm, and I just signed up for the free new magazine and find out I dont own a real Porsche.....

Boy these threads crack me up. Nothing worse than the insecuries of an older generation picking on the insecurities of a new one. Let the little 993 boys go into the corner and play with their insecurities and come back when they have real toys

Got me thinking, seen as how I got ripped off with the Rolodex watch I bought I should check the spelling on my Porsche, yup, is a knock off for sure, Portia..... must be made in hong kong....damm small letters.

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ditto, i am so disillusioned

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This was a funny thread... then this post? Did you not see the original instigator classifies himself as an "RS guy"... specifcally, 964? Seems that some have a woody for the 993vs996 argument regardless of the actual discussion. Let it go man! Not everyone who owns a 993 is this dogmatic Kudos to those who made jokes. That is all this kind of "debate" deserves.

THIS..... Not a real thread!!!

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Certainly not a real Porsche thread.

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I didn't call you anything, I even didn't quote you in my previous answer...but you are making me laugh, for someone that calls other remarks bull****, you've got very thin skin. You also called me stupid, but do you think I care? Relax, man...life is too short. You ask me if I think Joe is a true Porsche fan? You bet. A guy that have a hangar with 10 Porsche's at home is a true fan to me.

I like cake. and Cameron Diaz

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How about a Cameron Diaz cake?

I like peaches way more than cake.

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I with you on cake, but I don't care for Cameron Diaz.

Let me get this straight when Porsche made the 993 they were doing it for the good of man kind but when they came out with the 996 they were taken over by the dark side and the evil Lord Profit. Fade to evil laugh.

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Most of the new Ferraris and Lambos don't come with manual transmissions shifted through metal gates. Are they not real either? Dude, times change and you're stuck in the past. There's nothing wrong with that until you start poking sticks at people that happen to be living in the present.

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How about, Diana Krall?

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Hey, is that Sean Connery as James Bond from Dr. No in your avatar??

I like cake too....and I like the kind you can eat too. I bet the instigator is wearing shorts that are too short, and a polo with the collar up. Poke Poke Poke...prod prod prod. This is fun. J

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Nah, it's from here http://www.eliteproductionswi.com/ap...talService.mp4

H E L P - My root mean square is leaking!

Yummmmy

Wait, that's not a real woman!

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She looks ok, but I prefer Brunettes.

It's all good!!!

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Who is that??? EDIT: Catherine Bell. NIZE!

This is a real 996 cabrio

yep, top is definitely down

That picture makes my pants fit funny.

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Actually, so do I. Blondes are not real women.

OMG, I can't beilieve this crap is still active??? PS blondes are real only if they come OEM...

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On Eager Members.

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Did you notice that the quote was not mine? GR8330 appology accepted. (in advance)

I noticed...... Blondes are actually brunettes when flipped over!

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If the carpet matches the curtains they don't.

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I do like the way a 1988-1989 porsche 911 looks, but my 1999 996 seems pretty real to me. 300hp, improved interior. Sure if I could afford a brand new GT3 or Turbo I'd do it.

Just to let you 996 folks know that many of us 993 RLs do like 996 cars more so than... a Boxsters! Besides, wasn't he a 964 owner? Why can't we just all get along???? Whether its 964,993,996, or 997 aren't they all Porsche? This kind of stuff is S-T-U-P-I-D-O!!!!

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I think that's what the 996 owners are trying to say. Tell that to the 964 poster.

Now we can kiss and make up...everyone is one BIG HAPPY family!!!!

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Agreed. Unfortunately, I can usually scan the 993 board front page and find at least one if not several post knocking the 996. It is far from everyone on that page but let's just say plenty of "stupidity" exists there.

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True, but there's plenty to go around here. I think we might be a little better of giving stupidity a good smack-down.

If I add up my 964 and my 996TT does the sum = one real porsche

and just say if Porsche builds it its a "real Porsche". You may debate the pros and cons of certain models but, its all subjective anyway. There is no one best Porsche. There will always be evolution of the cars and to say that what was in the past was better may or may not be true. I'm sure there will be those people out there that when Porsche intruduces direct fuel injection the will hail the old throttle body models as the "last of the real Porsches". Shut up and drive!

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What Bend Pak lift do you have? I'm looking at the MD-6XP

Hey, I am sometimes guilty of thinking a 996 aint a real Porsche too... thats why I kept my 993... this is all personal opinion and down to emotion- no one will emerge a winner in such an argument. BUT, for pure driving I will take the 996 any day.... I absolutely love the 996 turbo and am pretty certain that even though mine is a tiptronic, in bog standard form would still will run circles around a 993 turbo (or any "real" Porsche turbo)... or at least not find itself flying backwards into a hedge. So lets move on now and start an argument about a tiptronic is not a real porsche...

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I'm looking at the same thing! I've been holding off though researching if any failures have happened with it.

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That would eliminate the Boxster and maybe even the Cayenne, both of which are at least partially 'built' in someone else's factory. Kidding. But here's a thought: FWIW, I believe that a 996 is as much a Porsche as a 993 is. (Cooling systems aside, a lot of the 996's engineering evolved directly out of the 993. It wasn't a clean sheet of paper). However, I think that you are far more likely to find a real Porsche PERSON at the wheel of the older car. To me, a lot of the reputation thing actually turns not on the car but on the people who drive it. Present company excepted, there are a lot of 996 and 997 drivers out there who, let's say, don't understand or buy into the Porsche 'thing'; they just wanted a ride with some status. As happens so often to luxury goods, the car's image got hijacked by its buyers.

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tiptronic...what is that? hehehe People on the 993 board actually don't realize that the 993 Type always suffered from cancer: the almighty sunroof. This typical 90's car disease is all over the model range. I have pass on so many because of this...

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Wow, What a post. Sorry for the delay in responses. I have been in San Fransisco all weekend. The heart of Porsche country, Driving one of the finest tracks in the land. Sears Point.... On the drive down from San Fran to Sears Point, 5:00 traffic on Friday. I passed by 22 Porsche cars. All but 4 were 996 cars.... One 997 GT3 Two Carrera's and one early car.... There are a ton of 996 owners, so obviously we are going to have a ton of People that love there cars... I was at a NASA event. Porsche club race and HPDE ( driver Training )session. The HPDE was full and they added another Open Track session for over flow. 40+ cars in every session for both days. Great event, great track, much to learn... In the Porsche club race there was no 996 cars....?? There was one Boxer that hauled ***, The cop car clone, I think it has a GT3 drive train. I saw maybe 4 996 cars, a few caymans, GT3's many early Porsche cars. I have already stated why this is... One of the 996 guy's. ( forgot his name, but a great guy ) Ran with me both days. he wheeled his 996 like a pro. His car was the only car Smoking through every corner. It burned about 1/2 quart per session I think he said. No worries. ... It just needs a replacement engine..... I think it is a shame that there are not more 996 based cars on the track. 10 years from now what are people going to be driving at the Porsche club races. Is HPDE going to be taken over by another Breed. Is Porsche out of the Track Car business... Is the GT3 the only option.... None of you 996 guys thinks this sucks.... The moral of the story is the Porsche community has evolved. If you bought a Porsche to drive to work every day with the top down, the 996 is a perfect car for you. If you bought a Porsche to take you wife to dinner up the Pacific Coast Hwy, the 996 is for you. "The 996 is a great car", It looks great and drives great, compared to it's competition, not compared to it's past...Not every one has the same track, Sport purpose mentality as I do. Porsche has recognized this and done a great job of adapting. I personally think it is B.S. that they do not offer the best power plant for the track in every car, including the Cayman.... It sucks... Porsche has evolved and not for the best in my "assclown douchebag" point of view. Please take a second and read my post agian.... Keep in mind the cars I own and the Passion I have for Porsche..... 10 Years from now what are people going to be collecting..... 996 Cars???? Only the GT3 version..

You just quoted yourself and responded. Classic.

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This has already been asked by you in this thread and the thread on the Racing and Competition forum. It was answered in multiple postings in both threads but you seem to want to ignore these responses. I'll try again. In spite of your statement that you just don't see these cars on the track (out west) these cars are being tracked in large numbers at many events with no apparent issues. Jim B gave you numbers at several recent club races and you continue to ignore the fact that 996's have been successfully campaigned in Grand Am Cup for years. Additionally, there is a new Boxster Spec series that is gaining in popularity and the cars run very well in these events. How is this possible? If the new motors just aren't up to snuff for track use why do so many track them without issue? I have been taking my Boxster to the track for seven years now. I have logged thousands of track miles on the car with zero engine problems. I've changed the oil, tires, pads, rotors, etc more times than I can count but I'm still driving around on the original motor. In the midwest the tracks are full of participants in these cars. So who should be believed? - The voice of a cynic (you) who claims to never see these cars tracked out west (but them goes on to claim that they "smoke" in corners)? - The experience of those that drive these cars on the track regularly and see multiple examples tracked at every single event they attend? Can you refute any of the info posted by other in this or the Racing thread that actually have experience in these cars?

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Troll. I had a long, reasoned, fact-based argument for you all typed out. And then I thought, I'm a putz for giving this the time of day. Back in the 60s, the 356 community was just as up in arms over the 'commercial sellout' that was the 911. You know how the 911 guys solved it? They waited. Eventually, the 911 made its point.

Ray, you did a great job of explaining. RS 197 is an that is not listening. Looks like a Troll to me - don't justify his provocation with your time.

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In case there was any confusion about where "Joe" stands on his feeling for the 996. Here's his response earlier this year to a poster who was trying to decide between a 993 and a 996. or (News flash Joe, they have the same motor) Not worth .02 IMHO. Go preach your garbage somewhere else Joe.

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� Rolo 2004

I'm pretty sure that the closest old Joe comes to a Porsche is the 50% off coffee table book he went through to make up the list of cars he owns. If he does happen to own them then he's just a pain in the *** rather than a lying pain in the ***. Either way I'm sure not wasting any more of my time responding to his ignorant rants.

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Has it come to this...... Give me a break..... You are right in one respect.... The bases for my collection started when I was about 18 With a coffee table book about Porsche cars.... I will have to go back and look how many of them are in my garage?? Maybe it was a sign.... The book had no reference to a 996??? I guess I can blame my ignorance on the book??? I will leave now.... I will say again it is nice that you guys have such a passion for your cars.... At least we have one thing in comon....

close the door on your way out.

And Let the door hit you in the *** on your way out.

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the cop car clone, is that a boxster? if so it's chris murray's. it has a 3.4L 996 wet sump engine, he's on slicks and extremely fast. i was at TH that friday. here is my two cents. the dry sumped case, GTx cars, are better than wet sumped 996... as they should since they cost a lot more. but i have tracked two 996c2's and each had 5-6k track miles on it in 1.5 years. they never had engine prob. i tracked a cayman S to death and so did mantis racing winning a lot of races in PCA, the engine was fine, now the pwr steering is POS but that's another issue. TRG raced several 997 this year in koni challenge, no starvation of oil either.

Did anyone else see those fake Porsche's racing on Speed yesterday? Someone needs to call the home office about those guys. Building unlicensed kit cars! Come on!

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__________________________________________ Joe, you need to get a Hooked on Phonics book to keep your P-Car books company on your coffee table because your spelling is atrocious. I too have owned coffee table books about Porsche, but in my case it probably goes back to the time when I was 11 or 12 years old. I suggest you buy some new books on Porsche, which do indeed have many references to the 996 series. One book in particular, "Porsche 911 Story" by Paul Frere, devotes many pages to the 996 in which Paul speaks very highly of the car and its evolution. You may in fact be very knowledgeable about Porsche cars, however I can guarantee you are not 1/10 as knowledgeable as Mr. Frere so excuse me if I hold his opinion with more weight than your own. Don't blame your old book for your ignorance of the 996, blame yourself.

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And yet you don't. Instead, you resurrect old engine threads so you can spread some more joy. I don't know if I feel sorrier for you because you have the time to bother with that sh*t, or because you are so comprehensively insecure.

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Joe appears to be a very "small" person doesn't he. One wonders if he will run around the 993 board re-opening SAI, Valve Guide, and top end threads. Unfortunately, Porsche has not created the perfect, trouble free 911 yet. They all have their issues.

can he dig up bob's thread? i don't seem to find those threads now.

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A book from 19 years ago probably had no reference to a 993, either.

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LOL! It's the headlights. That guy is a waste of time and internet space.

You guys are all incorrect! Your engines are at the wrong end! Mwahahahaha

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Pretty funny coming from a guy whose sig brags about "Elephant Poly Bronze Bushes".

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Now that is a mouthful...and you know what your mother said...

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lol

To be honest if this was a war between the marques, Porsche would lose miserably as the others would have no need to divide and conquer, their work is already done for them. Makes me laugh at how owners of a brand of car all fight amongst themselves. Beyond funny.

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agreed. pure entertainment. keeps me coming back.

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Whoa whoa whoa... you're not allowed to have an opinion since your motor's not even in the right place! Totally messing... nice looking P-car btw. I like my 996, the "other" Joe's a troll... I'm going back to work. Joe

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Agreed.

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You mean we can blame him for that TOO?

Drive them prices down baby! I may just be in the market.

Who cares what a closed minded simpleton thinks.... All Porsches are great in my book and I have great respect for all the owners whom understand what a porsche does to ones spirit. The 964, 993, 996 and the 997are all better cars because of the previous model.I like and dislike all of them for different reasons. Some people are just haters.

As my kids say "Whatever" I have owned both 993 and 996 - to me they are both great cars, is one better than the other - NO. I had my share of problems with my 993 4S but not one problem with my 996. At the end of the day, what does it mean ? NOTHING ! It is all relative my brothers.

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Sacrilege. Take in a deep breath of air (not water) and say you are sorry.

How 'bout those Dodgers!

I have ignored this thread since it started because it is a STUPID thread

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Steven: as ben said this is pure entertainmen and it keeps me coming back, also. Don't bother...enjoy...it is quite fun, actually

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I haven't even read any posts to be honest, just wanted to see if the thread would fall off the first page but noooo of course not. But come on, wouldn't you rather see threads with naked women sprawled across Porsche's rather than this shyte This is my last post on this thread

Show us more soccer moms!

this was almost as entertaining as the 951 vs 928 bitchfests