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YOUR RESEARCHHow reliable the 3.4L compares to 3.6L?
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Replace friend is selling his 745
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My friend is selling his 745 after less than a year of ownership, the engine was replaced, the window reg broke, and the I-drive drives him nuts.
Leading evidence: 'Replace friend is selling his 745' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'amount of failures...there seem' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check sig' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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the 911 is in the garage today and it replaced the M3.
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Suspected cause
3.4L or 3.6L is irrelevant....performance numbers are near identical, the only issue is the amount of failures...there seem to be more 3.4L failures, but they are also up to 3 years older....I have had a engine replacement and have almost 80k miles on my 2nd 3.4L and its as fast as the day it was dropped in....I'd take any 996 over an M3....also most 3.4L cars will be lighter, more agile, and 99 C2s had mechanical throttle and LSD was an option...for track use, a 99 with an LSD will be much more fun than a 02+....When all is said and done, if your 3.4L goes, you can drop in whatever you want...3.4L, 3.6L, 3.8L and still have a lighter car....also you can get one cheaper...more mod money!
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Suggestion
I would recommend a Honda with an extended warranty, I am sure even Ben can agree.
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Suggestion
To stay true to my original advice for the thread's author, if you have to get a '99-'01 Carrera, get a warranty, if the engine's been replaced even better, if it's been sitting around for an inordinate amount of time, look elsewhere.
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Suggestion
However, with the M96 Porsche has gone forward with a core exchange program to replace motors with a re-manufactured engine and take the core back for repairs.
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Suggestion
3.4L or 3.6L is irrelevant....performance numbers are near identical, the only issue is the amount of failures...there seem to be more 3.4L failures, but they are also up to 3 years older....I have had a engine replacement and have almost 80k miles on my 2nd 3.4L and its as fast as the day it was dropped in....I'd take any 996 over an M3....also most 3.4L cars will be lighter, more agile, and 99 C2s had mechanical throttle and LSD was an option...for track use, a 99 with an LSD will be much more fun than a 02+....When all is said and done, if your 3.4L goes, you can drop in whatever you want...3.4L, 3.6L, 3.8L and still have a lighter car....also you can get one cheaper...more mod money!
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amount of failures...there seem
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Suspected cause
3.4L or 3.6L is irrelevant....performance numbers are near identical, the only issue is the amount of failures...there seem to be more 3.4L failures, but they are also up to 3 years older....I have had a engine replacement and have almost 80k miles on my 2nd 3.4L and its as fast as the day it was dropped in....I'd take any 996 over an M3....also most 3.4L cars will be lighter, more agile, and 99 C2s had mechanical throttle and LSD was an option...for track use, a 99 with an LSD will be much more fun than a 02+....When all is said and done, if your 3.4L goes, you can drop in whatever you want...3.4L, 3.6L, 3.8L and still have a lighter car....also you can get one cheaper...more mod money!
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50 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Outcome without a verified action link
I just wanted to sell my 99 to get 02 but i'm not sure is the 3.6L still having engine failure as the 3.4L or not.
I just wanted to sell my 99 to get 02 but i'm not sure is the 3.6L still having engine failure as the 3.4L or not. Please post your opinions.
Thanks,
Jim
I say keep your car and enjoy it. If you are really worried they are all iterations of the M96, so ALL have some factor of catastophic failure so there is no magical year to be past that you can be GUARANTEED of no ka-boom...lol
Keep it, drive it, save for the newest you can afford, at this point, in a year or two get a 997.
Jim, how long have you had your '99 and how many miles have you driven it?!
Don't let some people who may have had bad luck scare you into selling.
Look at the recent post of someone turning 100000 miles and responses fromothers that have even more and still enjoy driving a problem free car.
If you want to trade up for more power, nicer options etc... then by all means but not for the wrong reasons!
Thank you for your inputs. I could afford a car but i could not afford a new engine. I've owned many BMWs in the past and all of them did not give much issues and fear as 996. I found a good 02 coupe and i'm debating myself to go for it or go for an E46 M3.
3.4L or 3.6L is irrelevant....performance numbers are near identical, the only issue is the amount of failures...there seem to be more 3.4L failures, but they are also up to 3 years older....I have had a engine replacement and have almost 80k miles on my 2nd 3.4L and its as fast as the day it was dropped in....I'd take any 996 over an M3....also most 3.4L cars will be lighter, more agile, and 99 C2s had mechanical throttle and LSD was an option...for track use, a 99 with an LSD will be much more fun than a 02+....When all is said and done, if your 3.4L goes, you can drop in whatever you want...3.4L, 3.6L, 3.8L and still have a lighter car....also you can get one cheaper...more mod money!
The only 3.4s that should be more worrisome than any other 996 are those with very low mileage. Otherwise, natural selection has taken care of most of the weak sisters by now. All in all, I don't personally believe you are at significantly greater risk with a well driven early 996 on its original motor than with any 996.
But I also think that if you're going to worry about it, get the more Honda-like Bimmer instead. There's no point in having one of these if you can't enjoy it.
this doesn't make too much sense from $$ point of view.
how much you need to put in to "upgrade" to 3.6? at least $5K?
that 5K is HALF of the price for a engine replacement. the odd for your 3.4 needs a replacement is much less than 50%.
enjoy the car, save up for a turbo/GT3
All the new engines supersede to a 2005 part number. So, in effect you are getting 2005 and newer technology when and/or if you replace your engine.
Remember, most early 964's had top ends redone due to poor cylinder to case sealing or distribuotr failures. 3.2 Carrera's had valve guide issues and 993's have air injection ports and valve guide wear.
Just for perspective.
I would fear the M3 breaking before the 996.
Bimmers are plagued with issues in all the line-ups. My friend is selling his 745 after less than a year of ownership, the engine was replaced, the window reg broke, and the I-drive drives him nuts. It is a low mileage car. I wont even start on all my friends 3 series. One friend promised he would never buy a bimmer again.
If you can afford a Bimmer, you can afford the 996.
You 3.4 fan boys can cheerlead for it all you want (predictable), but when I was making the decision going from the excellent S54 to the M96, many of the reputable shops that I called on in the Bay Area communicated to me very succinctly to stay away from the 3.4s if you can get the 3.6. Let's be clear: these guys see 911s come in for fixes, installs, mods day-in and day-out and have no pom poms to shake around.
I have much greater faith in the long-term reliability of the M division's S54 engine than the 3.4 unit in the early 996 Carreras. People who know just enough to be dangerous will, once again, predictably point to the rod bearing failure. Pls. BMW stepped up and proactively released a fix and backed that up with a very long warranty. It is less common (much, I'd speculate) to find an E46 M3 with a complete engine replacement whereas in the 996 M96 cars, it's almost preferred (crazy, yea?).
To stay true to my original advice for the thread's author, if you have to get a '99-'01 Carrera, get a warranty, if the engine's been replaced even better, if it's been sitting around for an inordinate amount of time, look elsewhere. Else, scrounge up some extra cash for the 3.6 and if the engine's been replaced by a Porsche dealer under the original warranty, more power to you.
I know people will clown on the E46 M3 and say any 911 all the way... speaking from personal experiencing having owned an E46 M3 and now drives a 3.6 996 with all the niceties, there are times when I do miss the M3's rev happy nature with the superb, bulletproof S54 engine that's won numerous awards judged by people who are dangerous because they do know it all.
Ben, I can recommend some terrific BMW forums for you, if you'd like to share your passion.
BTW, I don't recall the S54 debacle quite the way you do. Yes, it was supposedly fewer cars, and yes, BMW did something for many owners. But it took a lot of kicking and screaming to get them to act, and they had a vested interest since the engines were still in production. If you overlay the Porsche story on a similar time line, you might see that Porsche wasn't all that much worse while the 3.4 was in production. How many S54s did BMW make good on this year? Or last? How many subsidized motors did they sell in the last three or four years?
I like it when you stir things up around here, but not when you just troll.
Ben, as you are on my ignore, I don't see your posts, but I just clicked the page and saw that ONCE AGAIN you have no idea of what original poster was asking.
He ALREADY has a '99 with limited slip differential, so your opinions as to if he should buy a 3.4 are useless to him. Try reading the posts you respond to, they may be more helpful that way...
Anyway, back to iggy...
I'll go one further: I'd still rather have my 3.4 911, with the possibility of engine problems, over any BMW with a bullet-proof engine.
I buy cars because I love them, not based on what Consumer Reports says about reliability!
Stick with the better driver's car. If you need more "sissy" controls and less feel for your car, then get a newer one. There are no stats that show that the 3.4 engine is any worse than the 3.6. Even in performance you won't find the 3.6 996 any better than your 3.4.
The problem with that statement is you are trusting people for info, not facts...There are MANY reputable Porsche shops that say stay away from ALL 996s, get a 993...there are many reputable Porsche sops that say stay away from C4/C4s's because they break down more....but that doesnt make it true....there are PLENTY of high mileage original engine 3.4Ls...and there are plenty of low mileage 3.6L failures....so I say buy the nicest car you find (3.4L or 3.6L) in my case it was a 3.4L and get it with a warranty so if you do have issues, its taken care of....The reason shops saw more 3.4Ls is that there were more out there with mileage....as 3.6L's started getting mileage on them, people saw them as well.
I don't have a dog in this hunt. So put your flame throwers away. But, It's almost laughable how this M96 engine story is blown way out of proportion.
I did quite a bit of calling around to Porsche people that are well respected in both the dealer industry and the aftermarket industry. All of them say the same thing. The M96 engine "discussion" seems to have taken on an internet life of it's own.
Let's review:
1) 2.7 liter engine issues - well documented
2) 3.2 liter valve guide wear
3) 964 poor sealing and distributor problems
4) 993 valve guide wear and other potential problems
5) 944 rod bearing and timing belt
6) 928 too complicated and an electronic nightmare
God, why would anyone buy a Porsche after all that. I don't want to downplay anyone who has had an engine go south on them, but it does happen. Even to Toyota and Honduh.
Hell, life has risks. I say, stay at home in your house with the windows closed. You don't want to get hit by the sky as it is falling.
Ciao'
I picked my 99 3.4 b/c it was the lightest of the 996s and it has a factory LSD. It did have the RMS issue but that was fixed at 38K miles when the clutch was changed. I didn't go for a 2000+ model b/c I didn't think it'd be worth the cost of putting in a bigger engine (electronic throttle). A 3.6 would've been nice b/c of the updated looks and bigger engine but I didn't think the differnce in price was worth it to me. Plus, I'd have to get the anniversary ed. to get the LSD which would up the cost even more. I'm currently at 40K miles on my and have taken it to track/AX multiple times. I drive it very hard and it's been solid. I'd stick with the car you have and enjoy the heck out of driving it.
That's my 2 cents worth.
After reading all of your inputs, i decide to sell my 99 996 and save more money for the new M3. The 996 has very good image to alot of people but the interior looks really cheap like toyota. I owned both 944T and 996 for awhile but the 944T was a well build car, eveything looks and feel solid and it is still faster then my 996. Thank you all of you and enjoy your P car.
I relized that the 3.4L, 3.6L. M3 etc... has it own fans does not matter it has issue or not.
Jim
While I respect your decision, I suspect it wasn't based merely upon the opinions in this thread. The M3 is a great car, as is in my opinion any 911. Faced with a similar decision last year, I made an "emotional" purchase and bought the car I really wanted. While I think you can spend a lot of time doing a "better car" analysis, you will nontheless buy the one that simply appeals to you most. That's the way it should be - otherwise an Avalon or Accord would do just fine.
Stefan
A ton of Porsche's image problem on the M96 is the way they have handled repairs. On past models Porsche chose to fix the engines in the field. However, with the M96 Porsche has gone forward with a core exchange program to replace motors with a re-manufactured engine and take the core back for repairs. This program has fueled "blown engine" and "disposable engine" hysteria IMHO.
Porsche has undoubtably made improvements on the 996 3.6's and even more improvements on the 997 3.6's and 3.8's to improve their reliability. However, there is no reason that you can't have good reliability with a 3.4 Your odds for a problem are just a little higher (with the older cars).
Ben - you claim us 3.4 guys are cheerleaders, look in the mirror buddy. You treat the S54 like it is the best motor ever produced. You are the cheerleader for BMW and I think you should sell the C4S and buy another M3. Then you wont be getting into arguments or debates with this board. I dont know about you, but I dont like conflict, especially on a board than can help me out with things I do not know. Rod bearing failure in the S54 was real causing more damage than the many, and I mean many, 996 motors that were replaced to a RMS issue.
Rod bearing failure was covered by a 100K factory-backed warranty. Even if your car was OK, you brought your M3 in and it was covered. It was absolutely quelched by 2003.5s. It's not even a concern anymore.
And about me being a cheerleader for the S54. I don't have to be because industry experts who live and breathe engines absolutely love the S54. Period. Next.
And what's with this whole play in your own sandbox attitude, bud? Get over it. You can recognize each car for its strengths and weaknesses and the 911 has its own unique set just as the M3 or the CLK AMG or the Ferrari 360, blah blah blah blah blah.
Talk about tying your fuqin ego to your car. But then that's why I am here and paid my due. I get entertained by you guys and I hope it's reciprocal.
It's just unproductive, Ben. At this level, a car is much more about what you like than what's objectively better (Awards? Puh-lease...). Therefore, anybody who repeatedly asserts that they prefer another make over the one to which this board is dedicated is little better than a troll. After 3 BMWs, I'm here, driving my plain jane nothing special 996 C2. To ME, by MY subjective standards, in the context of MY expectations of a car, the 996 is "better". That means I'm on the right forum. You, I'm not so sure.
get with the times sir bruce. i have every right to be here as you do regardless of whether i own a bmw, a kia, a boxster or 911 just as you have a right to have your preferences and express them. you have absolutely no control over what i choose to express about this car or that car and calling me a "troll" doesn't hurt my feelings or make me want to take back anything i've said about the 911.
i've said time and again the differences between the M3 and the 911 given that i've put many miles on both cars. the 911 is in the garage today and it replaced the M3.
you're seriously sounding like a staid old man now.
But the almighty Ferrari is ok to grenade. I bet the motor cost more than your car does. Never heard bad mouthing against Ferrari? The money is unjustifiable.
I love my 996. No engine problems and it runs better than new. The M3 is supposed to be a good car, but to me it doesn't look like a sports car. It's not much better looking than an oldsmobile. In my neighbourhood BMW 3 series cars are driven by 65 year old ladies with blue hair.
Well I have had my 2000C4 with a 3.4 for years and been up and down the Autobahn, on the ring and driven it throughout most of Europe and the only issue to date with around 50000 well driven miles is replacement tires, upgrades and a MAF. Note the upgrades were for looks and performance, thanks guys you helped me spend allot of extra money! Whatever car you want buy it, for me the 3.4 is just fine. Now if I had the money a new Austin Martin I saw at the Frankfurt Auto show would be nice but since I fly and work for the US tax payer I do not see that happening especially with the dollar tanking against the euro. I have driven several M3s and they were very nice cars but I preferred the Audis quality despite being slightly slower. Here in Germany few cars carry the clout to clear the Autobahns left lane - Porsches and Ferraris do - BMWs do not except for the M6. So Ben if you want to drive fast here in Germany keep your 3.6 996 and you would have a ball but if you went for the BMW over the 3.4 996 you would be stuck behind some Opel, Audi or whatever on the Autobahn. So to the original question if you have fears even though they are not valid I would not waste one nights sleep and buy the car you can go to bed at night and not worry about. I would recommend a Honda with an extended warranty, I am sure even Ben can agree.
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