Scheduled 5/12 - 1st DE at Road America on bone stock 996.1 C2

My buddy insists that I bring spare brake pads to this event. My logic is that "anything can break," since my 1999 C2 Cab is bone stock, and I'm concerned about quite a few items, including the possibility of having the original IMSB, original water pump, original clutch, etc. The oil has only 2,000 miles on it and still looks like new (clean), and the other fluids all look great. But I plan to replace the brake fluid and maybe even buy those pads for te event. What else should I be prepared for? I think it's good to be prepared, but then again, when the clutch failed on the last DE event I was at (10 years ago, different 911), there's not all that much that can be done to repair or prevent that sort of thing. I had a space DME relay back then - a known fix for the 3.2 Carrera weak point.

Better brakes - a must - Hawk or PFC and put better fluid or fresh bleed on brakes - FVD has a deep sump pan/ baffle ( carousel) turn - new oil for sure Joe Gibbs - DT 40 - make sure your suspension is at least ok for track - wheel bearings ect - this is a long track 4.2 mi - not as hard as a short track on brakes - tires make a big difference on how the car handles- my favorite track

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FIFY. DT40 is not meant for the track. To the OP...RA is great track at 4 miles.

To the OP: I have a set of track pads for the car if you want to buy them. I bought them a few years back, did one track event at Blackhawk with them and I don't think I'll ever track the car again. I'll have to look to see what they are....but I believe they are Hawk pads. You'll definitely need track pads for any track, but especially Road America with turn 1 and most importantly turn 5 and Canada corner. Make sure you bleed the brakes with new fluid and definitely go with fresh oil. When I ran my car at Blackhawk, going around the back side of the track where the long left hand sweeper was, the oil pressure would come off 4-5 bar after about 6 or7 laps, it would drop down to 2.5 bar or so. I would then pull my car off the track. This only happened after the oil heated up which took those 6 or 7 laps. I did buy a FVD oil pan that I have yet to fit to the car, but was planning on it some day. Just never got around to it. Let me know about the brake pads.

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And if you would like to sell it I would be interested.

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I think for now I'm just going to keep it. Funny that the last guy who owned it never installed it and he got it from the first guy that bought it that never installed it.

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If I replace the 0w-40 street oil I'm running with Joe Gibbs for the track, do I have to swap it back to street oil when I'm finished?

You probably don't need full track pads, but something upgraded from stock isn't a bad idea. They should last you through the weekend without problems. RA isn't that hard on brakes except going down into T5. There's lots of good advice on here about how to prep your car (bleed brakes!) and what to take (torque wrench, tire guage, etc.), so search around a little. My advice is watch your oil pressure, listen to your instructor, take it at your own pace (i.e. don't compare yourself to others....it's irrelevant), and enjoy a fabulous track. RA is not very technical, so it's actually fairly easy to learn - just take the Kink at a reasonable speed until you're comfortable building up speed. It's about the only place on the track that can give you a pucker factor. Be safe and enjoy.

Murphy: Here's what I've got. Porterfield R-4's....on each pair one has more wear than the other, but I would say you could get 2-4 weekends out of these, lots of life left. I bought them used and used them for 50 track miles or so. If you want to come and pick them up from my house, $150. Looks like the AP 776's are about $180, and the AP 738's are about $140. I'm in Forest Park right off the Ike. I have a set of no squeal pads for the fronts if you want those with them. Fronts: Here are the rears:

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The XP series oils are good for 700 miles or so. You might just change it to a 5-40 weight but not the DT-40. It will fall apart fast at track temps. And no this is not an oil thread!

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That is good to know...I'm sure I was running DT40 during my stint at Blackhawk.

Do a lot of folks run race oil for track events? Seems to me that any decent oil should hold up at least fairly well, no? I guess it depends on the track and how hard folks will push their cars. I'm not sure I'm inclined to push my 18-yr-old bone stock original car to 8.5/10th.

If this is your first DE, then don't change anything....not needed.....porsche stock brake pads are fine for the track...tires....whatever you run on the street....oil.....0W-40 is fine.... I ran my first 12 track days....going from never been on on a track to advanced in 2 years with a completely stock 2001 C2 with all season (michelin AS+) tires, stock brakes, and Mobile 0W-40 oil....that was between 60-90K miles..... at 102K miles, I am still tracking it, but use better tires (RE71R), upgraded suspension (after left front strut failure at 85K miles...Bilstein performance shocks w/H&R racing springs), and PFC 08/11 pads....semi solid engine mounts (the original ones were sagging almost an inch), but still using mobile 0W-40 oil.... The only change I would recommend is changing the brake fluid to a high temp (i.e. supergold 200) version.... Drive it to the track, run all day, drive it home....no issues....then drive it to work the next day.... You can go to the extremes, but until you get some time in, the basic stock car is going to handle more than you can throw at it....basically...drive the crap out of it until something starts to give, and then upgrade....

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I've done a few track events, but not more than 5. I only want to upgrade something if there's reason to believe it will fail or break down. I guess if I keep an eye on temps and pressures, I should be fine. I'll do the brake fluid for sure.

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Was going to say the same thing. Until you progress a little further up the ranks the car is not the limiting factor here - the driver is. I'd say a stock Carerra will probably suit most novice drivers just fine without anything more than filling up the tank of gas. Once you start to build up speed then yes the brake pads and fluids need to be upgraded and then you can start the slippery slope! I run mine in a white (intermediate with red and black above) with a modest suspension upgrade, upgraded pads, and upgraded brake fluid - that's it!

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Yeah, I had this discussion with my buddys that took his M3 to Joliet once. His instructor said to him, "you took your car to the limit," but I question that comment. Did he really drive 10/10ths the whole time? Did he use 99.9% of the brakes and gas and available tire grip the whole time? And even if if he did, he was surely many seconds slower than an intermediate or expert with the same car. The whole point isn't to win with the fastest times. Or to drive the car to the absolute limit. But then again, it's kind of hard to not use full throttle or to apply maximum braking pressure, so I can see why pads and fluids are important regardless of skill level.

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...heck-list.html my two cents, your mileage may vary

I've been doing DE since I bought the car new in 2002, have more than 100 DE events by now. I gotta tell you, for the first 10 or 20 events a bone stock 911 will do just fine. No upgrades needed. Yet . That being said, bleed the brakes and check the pads. If the pads are at 50% or less, bring an extra set and the tools needed to change pads. OEM pads are fine for the novice or intermediate level of DE, maybe even early advanced. Even the Mobil SAE 0-40 oil is fine. Still using it in the black/red run group with no issues. These cars are engineered way above the average driver's ability. If it's been 10 years since your last DE, you'll need a new helmet, SA2010 or newer. And of course, the usual stuff: tire gauge, lots of water,.....and an extra set of underwear, just in case! LOL.

Joe Gibbs DT40 is appropriate for your vehicle and for this driver education (not racing) event. The racing oils provided by Joe Gibbs racing are designed for 'race prepped' engines and very high rpm (over 9,000). Your bone stock 996.1 with no modifications is not going anywhere near the places Joe Gibbs racing oils are designed to go. Your street tires, original suspension, and lack of high speed driving experience means your car is not going anywhere near its limits. Have FUN!

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You can lead horse to water......

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A lot of good info. I've also been studying and playing the track (playing this track on Grant Turismo 6 with a PS3 and a wheel). I know these here video games are not real, but I think it's still better for me to memorize at least the turns and apexes so that I have an idea of what the track is like and I can focus on what the instructor tells me.

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If aliens ever find us, I'm confident they'll quickly realize how thick we are between the ears.

The guy that co-designed DT-40 is the one that recommended not using it on the track. It's breaks down at 240F. I will swap back and forth with XP-9 when I take my DD to the track. That being said, if you insist on running Mobile1, I would at least run the 5W-50. Several of the Porsche race shops around here run it and say they've had better luck with it than with the 0W-40. Be sure to report back after your track day. My first track day was just about a year ago. To say I was instantly hooked doesn't really do it justice. I've done 38 more track days since then and have competed in 8 races. It's by far the most fun I've ever had with a hobby.

The m96 in Hoovie's Apollo 911 (248k mile 996.1) just asploded on the track this past week during a sustained, moderate/high-G section. I forget which oil he used but am fairly confident he used street-spec oil during the track day. You Tube

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sad I enjoyed his vids. The real problem is that even after a lot of noise and check engine codes for cam timing he just kept on driving it. I'm pretty certain he turned something repairable into a complete disaster doing that. the video made me think more about oil control (read pan / baffles ) than oil viscosity.

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Yeah, in one of his videos, oil pressure suddenly dropped while he was on the track. This was previous to the track video you posted. I assumed that pressure drop was oil pump cavitation or just the oil overheating. He kept driving it. Not sure I would keep driving. And his car had a lot of miles on it. I'm sure that contributed to the issue he's having.

Interesting article that explains why most cars are only meant to do a few hot laps: https://www.google.com/amp/www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/amp30234/the-idiots-guide-to-tracking-a-completely-stock-car/ Heat. Always the enemy, and there are no easy and cheap shortcuts to getting around it. Even a driver with no experience will still be encouraged to use 100% of the throttle and damn near 100% of the brake when driving, even if their lap times are slow. So all that heat has to go somewhere. I'll be getting some pads and new fuilds after all.

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Well, the video is properly named. He killed his engine. I agree with Anthony. Pretty sure what was going on was likely fixable... maybe would have required invasive and expensive tear-down, but likely fixable. Personally, I think he had his mind made up on doing an LS swap from day one. Otherwise, why keep driving it after the snafu at the track? And for that matter, why would anyone bother to track a new-to-them 248k mile car in the first place? And did I also hear him say he was running Mobil 1 oil on the track? Lots of carelessness on display in this video. I guess it all depends on how aggressive you plan to drive on a track, but personally, I would not do anythng more than a short autocross track with an unmodified 996. Yes, these cars are designed out of the box for high speed driving, but more for roads like the Autobahn, with long sweeping high speed turns. For a larger-scale track like Sebring, VIR, or Road Atlanta... At minimum I'd want a modified baffle setup to prevent oil starvation and would likely change oil and brake fluid/pads as many here have suggested. I would probably even want dedicated track tires as well. That's not even taking the suspension into consideration... but not worried about blowing that up at a cost upwards of $10k.

Eeek... I just signed up Novice Night track at CMP... much shorter track though. 1 paced lap and 3 unpaced sessions (20 minutes). I will put the spin on filter and ready for new oil but maybe I am gonna look at different oil now. I have done many track days on motorcycle but this is the first time in a car. So I do think brakes will be applied and throttle opened more than street use while definitely not as much as intermediate or higher... Plan was to put the costco M1 in and then replace after the track day...

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Mobil 1 advanced full synthethic is just fine for the event you describe. You are not racing, you are driving a street car around a race track for a maximum of 20 minutes. You are on street tires and not a professional formula 1 driver (I'm assuming, otherwise you would be driving a GT2 or such). You should either flush the brake fluid (if two years old) or at minimum bleed the brakes. Also make sure your brake pads are 50% or better. That's all you really need to do to enjoy this driving (not racing) event. It's really fun to drive at a race track so enjoy every minute.

Thank you! I actually just went to your link above Brake pad is around 60%. Brake fluid was flushed about 12k ago, should I go ahead and flush it while I am doing oil?

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#1 rule of track driving = be safe. #1 safety feature on track = brakes. Do yourself (and the others on track with you) a favor and bleed your brakes with a high quality dot4 fluid before going out on track. Mileage isn't a good indicator of the health of your brake fluid. Don't mess around with brake failure. Cheap insurance against a bad situation. Also do a full brake test before heading to the track - get on the brakes hard, get the ABS working, etc...

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Ditto! next check suspension and alignment, make sure you have the rear toe in, keep the back end from getting real nervious going into 1,5, and Canada. If your unsure about the car, prep to your satisfaction so your confident you and everyone and everyone else is good. Road america isn't a place to be nervious, you need to confident in what your doing and driving. I've been racing super bikes or DE there since 2000. Good luck to you, it's one of the best tracks! cheers!

Just curious, how does one just "swap" and put in new pads at a HPDE... Not worried about the mechanics of doing it, but about the possibly poor braking after doing this... Your current pads are bedded in, as your rotor isn't a perfectly flat surface. That's why they brake really well... Wouldn't throwing on new pads, potentially cause poor braking for the first 20-30 miles? At least until they bed in? Wouldn't that cause issues on a track, since you really don't know how good your brakes are really going to be? Or is it really as simple as just throwing on new pads and going back to your current pace the next lap? Puzzled...

Its actually pretty easy to "bed in" new pads at an HPDE. Put the new pads in, then drive down the parking area drive way and apply moderate brake pedal pressure to make sure things are balanced. If balanced and no pulling, you can stand on the brakes from 60 MPH a few times and they will bed in. Alternatively, after the brief checkout at the parking lot, get on track, be prepared to give lots of passing signals to upcoming cars, drive at a slower pace but do a few threshold braking before corners. After 1 or 2 laps, the new pads will be bedded and up to temp.

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Thanks... surprised that they bed in so fast...

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Yup. The 500 or so miles for bedding that most manuals recommend refers to street driving. Hopefully, you never have to do threshold braking on the street!

Lots of great prep advice already given. Have a blast at RA. Nice long track at 4.1 miles. Laps Inc promises lots of track time. Please give us some feed back on that. I'll be there May 17 for a track day with a bone stock 2005 996 tt s cab. Just returned from Porsche's 2 day precision driving school at Barber Motorsports in AL. They run those cars bone stock for 150 days a year of aggressive driving with just tire and brake changes. These cars just excel on the track! German engineers don't sweat the details just so the car can sit in a garage. Please let me know about your day. Be safe and enjoy finding your personal limits on the track.

Here's a great video of Porsche driver Patrick Long taking you through the corners of Road America. Very helpful for learning braking points, turn in, etc. You Tube Let us hear about your day.

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And the most important brake check is every lap. On the straights tap your brakes to make sure you still have brakes. Brakes have a tendency to die right before the hardest braking corners.

I just left my mechanic shop. We flushed the brake fluid, performed an oil and filter change (from 0-40 Mobil 1 to 15w-50 Mobil 1), and we installed the Porterfield pads without sensors. I didn't even really need to bed the brakes just yet as I have no issues stopping at all. I know the 15-50 is too thick below 50F, but I'll be changing it out anyway soon enough. The oil had only 2,000 miles and was still see-through and clean. Not a single visable piece of plastic or metal in the oil or filter. I'll report back after the event. Hopefully all goes well.

Oil pouring out is still see-through

Let us know how your weekend goes, you're going to love those brake pads. You'll stop on a dime and will never fade for the whole weekend. Be safe!

Above all else, get lots of rest, drink tons of water and enjoy. I can already smell the brats!

Awesome! Please share your experience! I have changed oil and will change after the event as well. Brake fluid will be changed before the event. Brake pad is confirmed by the shop here again its 60% and I will check between sessions. However, would be great to hear your feedback!

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Are you also going to this same event, or a different event?

I am going to CMP (South Carolina) for the SCCA track night america event on June 15th. With Koni discount its 125. Perfect for me to get familiar with the car I think Need to go bug some 'instructor' that day though.

Well, I have an update after spending a day at Road America with my 996.1. First and foremost, the people make these events what they are - an amazing time. Lots a good folks there, and many different types of cars. Anything from the usual Porsche's, BMWs, Miatas, but even entry level Acuras all the way through to Ferraris, Stock cars, and even a Porsche 918 (I don't think the 918 raced). The 996 handled beautifully. I was able to reel in a 2.54 lap time in the beginner group with lots of traffic. The running temps according to the gauge were 104-107F at 65F ambient. It's a good thing I got those track pads though, because they never faded. I did have a heat soak issue, though, and boiled the brake fluid after I had to come in for a quick pit stop after a hot lap. There's a good reason right there for warm up and cool down laps. I had to go in because it took 10 mins to get my brake back. All in all, I ended up receiving a lot of compliments of my car. There is something about a Porsche, let me tell you. I was able to catch up to other, more powerful cars, and pass them on the track. The braking power in this car was incredible. My instructor was awesome. He took me for a ride in his GTR, and while that car was epic, I couldn't help but notice that a Caymen GTS was very difficult to chase down in that GTR (560HP), even on the straights. Here's a 4 min video of me (screwing up some lines) but still chasing down a couple of M3s and a Ferrari: https://youtu.be/KkP9U17OOOk

Looks like a lot of fun! I just didn't want to run my car with the low oil pressure on the sweeping turn at Blackhawk. Now I want to track my car again! But I sold my track pads to you! ;-)

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I think there's still plenty of life left in those pads. I only did one day.

Glad you had a good time... Didn't know ra had a track day this weekend. Was it the hpde class or an open track day? Suprised you boiled your brakes. Are you sure you bled them right? With fresh fluid, it should be near impossible as a beginner... One weird thing to be aware of when you do a ra event... There doesn't seem to be any liability coverage... When you run pca or scca, if something happens, you have millions in club coverage. As far as I understand it, running a ra there is zilch in coverage. If you spin out and fly into a crowd of people... God help you. If this is wrong, I would love to be corrected... For ra track events they insist you have car insurance. Yet, they must know full well, it likely had no effect... I feel much safer running a pca event...

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It was a LAPS event, not PCA or HPDE. But we had instructors. The only time I boiled my brakes was after I came to a stop after being called in for a black flag. I was experimenting with brake zones and force and probably had made the brakes heat up more than usual by increasing my braking zone and then not cooling them off with 130+mph runs down the straights. Then came to a complete stop. That was the only time my bakes went to the floor. Otherwise, they were excellent. I didn't think any track event was really a safe zone for insurance claims?

You ran Mobil 1 oil and survived? I'm shocked. I thought you would never make it through the day without extra special "racing oil." Who knew!

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That's not how risk works , fyi.

Sounds like a great time! other than the boiling brakes... Scary moment... I missed if you have flushed the brake fluid? I am going to do mine memorial day weekend. Anything you brought to the track that helped the day or something you wish you brought but didn't? I read from previous notes and figure the following: basic tools, water, tarp... Anything else?

I made it to this event on Saturday, it was a HPDE event with 3 categories. Most fast street cars were in the intermediate group, with race cars and stupid fast street cars in the fastest group. The old 996 gt3 held its own. Funny how some people in drivers meeting thought they should tell others how to drive their cars. Stupid arrogance I guess. Good event with a lot of parity in this group. First session was packed with some ignoring passing flags, by the end of the day it thinned out and it was easy to get clean laps with no delays on points! the 918 guy is another Barrington resident who lives a couple doors down from a good friend who's a Porsche guy. He was there with his viper friends which there were a ton of vipers present on track. More than I've seen in years. fyi: the clip for mass air flow sensor failed at the end of my first session, feels like fuel system pressure or random engine shutdown and refire. Heavy bucking is key indicator. Zip tie cures a lot for a single day!

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I guess it would be scary if it happened on the track, but it happened while stopped. Yes, for track days, it's a good idea to take anything you can think of that will help you or a friend out. Things like: Brake Pads, spare parts, any type of fluid for the car, Toolbox, Zip ties, Microfiber cloths Snacks, food, and water Tire pressure gauge (I took my bike pump) Protection from the sun (sunscreen, hat or umbrella) Chairs to sit in Duct and Painters tape Car number Honestly, you can bring the world and have a problem you cannot fix, or you can bring nothing and just get lucky. But we brought all sorts of things, because again, you never know what you'll need and to help a friend or stranger is a nice way to make these events really a great experience.

^^^ DE's are less intense and generally require less support stuff, but when I was racing I would describe it as: 'Going racing is like packing for an expedition up Mt. Everest.......with a car' Hope you enjoyed your weekend at RA.

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When I raced super bikes I had to bring 2 for each category I was racing in. In hindsight racing Aprilia's was about the most expensive i could have chosen but they were great till they changed the rules. Anyhow you can't pack up and go home if you have a simple crash, but if it tumbles you need frame and suspension, can you say trailer load of spares! Don't be fooled by the size of bikes if your serious about racing a superbike its as expensive as a car, when you have to come to terms with being able to rite off the bike when you crash! Gave that up for cars, I do hedge however so I go with a gt3 that is fully prepped!