ACCIDENT! I have some questions.... Pics inside, tell me what you think.....

Today in stop and go traffic I rear ended a Van while driving my 996. I was not going fast, maybe 15-20 miles an hour. The damage from what I see is front bumper, headlights, hood. The fenders have very little dmg, at the corners that connect toward the hood there is some slight dmg that I think can be straightened. I am more concerned about what type of metal typically gets screwed up in the front of the car. I drove the car home, nothing in the suspension I could feel out of place, alignment even seemed ok. I am going to get an estimate. What do you all think the dmg looks like in dollar amounts? I have a $1k deductable, and I am thinking between body and paint its probably at least $5-7k, what do you think? My insurance company is USAA, I hope the are not going to give me a hard time with estimating etc. Do companies let you use used parts typically? I was thinking if USAA doesn't pay what my top of the line body shop charges, I could get the hood and maybe some peices from a junk yard, save some money there. Not sure if the body shops are usually down with that. I defintiely want to get some used litronics since I need new headlights anyways and I did not have litronics. If it only costs me $1k deductable and $1k out of pocket I will say I got lucky. So my questions: 1. What do you think this is going to cost me? 2. How do these things make it to CARFAX? Does insurance carrier report? 3. How can I get the option label from my hood to the new hood? You think the body shop can get it off and apply adhesive......i would hate to lose that. 4. Will body shops let me use undamaged used parts like a junk yard hood? As promised, the pics:

Ouch!!!! So sorry to see the damage - as long as you're OK, count your blessings. A few things - insist on a top flight body shop for your repairs, and ONLY new OEM parts. Hard to say what the cost will be - if there's frame damage, we're talking $$$ - plus, I wouldn't want to keep the car. If not, I think $5K is probably in the ballpark. I wouldn't worry too much about the option sticker - least of your problems. Good luck and remember, it can be repaired.

It was a van, and you can tell from the pics that my car sort of buckled the van's bumper (my car is low, and the van is a bit high), and so my car sort of slid under the bumper to an extent, didn't get locked in there, but you can tell from scraps on the hood. So I am hoping this minimized the front impact and maybe there is little damage to frame. Radiator was fine, temperature was fine, air bag didn't deploy. Its sucks tho....I am 34, this is my first accident, so I was due I guess.

Without seeing the entire car and underbody closeup, it's impossible to know how far the damage went, frame, etc. A set of headlights will set you back a couple of big bills. Bumper Cover, Hood, possibly both fenders, and any underpinnings...who knows? As Phil says, probably in the 5k-10k range, BUT if there is serious frame damage, your adjuster could total it. I've seen it happen, with some Porsches it did not even look as bad but the frame damage was bad enough to total. Be prepared. Once you file with insurance, they will cross reference the VIN and that will likely end up reporting on CarFax. Do the doors both line up correctly, open and closed? While driving it, if you let go of the wheel did the car drift left/right? How were the brakes? Many hidden issues. Find the top guy in your locale for Porsche or other highline work, and have them dig in. Prepare yourself, but be thankful to be alive and ok, and no one else hurt. What happened to the other vehicle?

Ouch! Sorry to hear about your crash. That sucks. I just had some front end work done on my car from a deer I hit. No where near what yours is, but here was my dealings. - The insurance company (Progressive) pushed me a little bit to use their shop. I said no way and took it where I wanted. In the end they were fine. -They wrote the estimate up and then I went over it with the body shop. The headlight was priced at $1143 for one from Sunset Imports and I asked them if I supply the parts will they be okay with it and they said no problem. I ended up upgrading to the Litronics as well. I shopped around and found the parts for a fraction of what Sunset quoted, so it actually saved me around $1000. Since they were pulling everything apart I also ordered the clear side markers and told them to put them in place of the ambers. No problem. I also had them repaint the front hood and spoke about the front emblem and they just pulled the one off that was on there, cleaned it all shiny and then replaced it after it was painted. I know yours is much worse, but FYI the hood was $600 to repaint and blend (no damage other than rock chips), the front bumper was around $800-$1000 I think to repaint (again, no damage, just a crack in the paint and clearcoat from the deer). Overall, the body shop let me do whatever I want. They were (still are) irritated at how long it is taking me to get the parts here, but, oh well. The one thing I would definately suggest is finding out what the insurance company quoted for parts and then shopping around for them cheaper elsewhere. You could definately save some money. Good luck. Keep us updated on the progress!

I also have USAA and they were very good when my wifes Subaru got smashed about 2 yrs ago. I would be VERY interested in how they treat a P car damage. I'm thinking you have $5K maybe 7K in damage, body shops are doing great things now a days you may end with a car that doesn't show any "worse for the wear".Ask around to find out who is the best guy to do the repairs, call some dealers for recomendations. Good Luck !! Those pictures made me queasy .

glad you're okay. i guess in all this... that's the only thing that really matters........ but in terms of damage.... see if your ins. company will write you a check then see if you can get some parts at the junk yard..... no matter what, it will have to be repainted.....Good luck...

Oh yeah, Carfax. I asked at the body shop about carfax and they said that in Oregon it only gets on to carfax if a police report is filed. A simple claim through the insurance company won't go through. Another person then confirmed what the first person said.

Signal,OUCH! sorry about your car. I'm glad you're ok. I had to replace the hood on my car and have the front bumper repaired. I would highly recomend using new OEM parts only. One of the places where my bumper was repaired is cracking. My hood had a minor bend near the window, I can tell where it was repaired...it was new but damaged during shipping. You are paying the deductable no matter what. Find the best body shop around (ask your local PCA) and insist on new parts. Your car was beautiful and will be again. Good luck. Look at this as a chance to upgrade your headlights and get rid of any rock chips that you had.

Signal-Ouch, I am so sorry that happened to you. I had the same exact car...year, color, aero, wheels, everything. I miss that girl so much except I hurt mine a little worse. Thankfully yours will be back on the road as good as new someday. I am no expert but my guess is $4k-7K. Good luck and keep us posted to the final cost if you can. Also, way to swallow your pride and drive the thing. That had to suck.

Sorry to hear about the accident. I too have USAA and altough I've never used them for accidents I have used them for theft and break-ins. Both times they have been excellent and took my word for what I had listed as stolen in the car. If I remember correctly they only wanted a police report. I have never had issues with them and no one can touch their pricing. Hopefully they will treat you well too. Glad you are ok.

So...that's what it would look like? Sorry to hear about your incident. On a positive note...I see Litronic and a clear bra in your future BP

I just went through a nasty accident experience. Side swiped by a hit and run on the 401 (Toronto - 16 lanes of traffic) at night. Car drove fine, 4 weeks later at the best body shop (owned by the group that owns Downtown Porsche) and $26K worth of parts and labour. The expensive parts were control arms, sway bars, quarters, bumpers, wheel, etc. Its all expensive is what I'm trying to say. Be prepared - and do as others have said. Insist on the best place that is use to working on these cars. Go through a P-car dealer and insist on the best all OE parts. By the way, my experience with the shop was fantastic.

USAA will send an appraiser to check out the car. They will come right to you or to a shop if you take the car to the shop first. Personally, I would get an independent appraisal first from the p shop. Helps to have a body shop on board who can clearly show all damage to the car, possibly some hidden stuff that the appraiser might miss. Also leave open in case damage is found during repairs. USAA will cut you a check directly after that, minus the deductable. Once you have the money, you can fix it however you want. You could keep the money and sell the car, it does not matter. You are being reimbursed for the loss. BTW, if you decide to keep it, make sure you can take pictures so you can show a future buyer the damage if needed. I would rather see the extent of the damage if I was going to buy an accident vehicle.

I have USAA as well......first reaction is I hope they do not ding me for your Pcar Just kidding.........my family has always used USAA and have never had any problems.....I have paid them a lot of money over the years, but never made any real claims....(I did hit a parked car when I lived in colo after college but that was not much $$$$) Looks like a great deal of damage......I would think about getting paid for the decrease in value on the car if at all possible....it is recoverable if a third party hits you...not sure if it is available if it is your own automobile.... Keep us up to date on how USAA handles the claim..........

Also with USAA. I'm just guessing it at around $8000. USAA will not dick around with you.

USAA is your friend on small items such as this, though not "small" to you. I had them litigate AGAINST me as my OWN carrier in a big suit involving injury (not my fault and injury to me). Yes, they actually held up my case for two years while the other company was willing to pay me the responsible drivers entire coverage. The suit exceeded the kids policy who hit me and so USAA was liable for the excess under "underinsured motorist" coverage. They made my life more miserable for a long while. Also, if you have another accident (anyones fault in the next three years then you must be very careful. A third claim and it can be three of no fault of yours, in three years and your policy will go up 50%. Consider on any further incidents in the next three year paying for it yourself, if it is modest, to avoid getting put in this box. Lastly, and you will have to think about this a while because it sounds weird- have you considered trading it as is? I did (on the accident that I was injured on). If you have at all thought about a new(er) car now could be an opportune time. Here's why. If you give a dealer (with a body shop) your car and the insurance check you can get blue book, or as close to it as you would ever have gotten. Why? Because they can then repair it at their labor and parts cost which is WAY cheaper than they will charge USAA. So they get a car, albeit with a history, that is then made whole again and it cost them less than the sum total of the car and work. They can give you blue book (wholesale or trade-in) and they get a car costing less than that, much less. So even with a history on the car, they will dump it somewhere and make money. If you keep it and later sell it you will lose money because you are selling a car that was in an accident. Of course another monetary incentive is that you are buying a car from them. I didn't dream this up. A body shop guy told me this and it worked for me. I got out of a heavily damaged car, not totalled, but got into a new car and it worked well. Food for thought. Feel free to pm me or email. Glad to cover any questions you may have. Sorry about the damage, good luck and remember- you can have it repaired wherever YOU want. Not where THEY want.

......I would think about getting paid for the decrease in value on the car if at all possible.... Some states allow you to sue for diminished value, but many don't. I don't believe you can collect diminished value from your own Insurance company when you are at fault. About nine years ago my son rear ended a car at about 10MPH when driving his Infiniti G20. The damages at that time came to around $2500. So at todays prices and with a Porsche, I would expect that the price would be in the $5K - $7K range depending upon if there are discoveries when they go to repair your car. Anything is possible, but at such a low speed impact frame damage is very unlikely. The way it worked with my Insurance company is that I took the G20 in to their claims adjustor for an estimate and they wrote a check to cover the damage. There were discoveries when the car was repaired and the body shop worked directly with the Insurance company to collect for the additional repairs. A for OEM parts, many Insurance companies have a provision in their insurance coverage that allows them to repair your car with other than OEM parts. So unfortunately your estimate will probably be based on the prices for substitution parts. Good luck.

I also have USAA and will say they have authorized repair facilities where they will tell you to take the car. You can take it some place else but they will only pay for what the authorized repair facility would charge, that is the bad news. The good news is that they guarantee their work and will repair for free anything that goes wrong so ie you own your car for 10 years and in the sunlight 10 years from now you notice the paint has faded, all you have to do is notify and they will repair. This is my experience with USAA in Germany, may be different in the USA but doubt it. Best of luck and sorry for your car but happy you are OK!

My personal experience with USAA has also been good. My only big claim was an accident that was my fault (on the race track). It was mildly amusing when I filed the claim. "Where did the accident occur?" "Oh - Road Atlanta" "Nearest cross street?" "There isn't one. It's just a big circle." "What happened?" "Hit the wall." Anyway, that was about 7K (10 years ago) plus medical and I had to go back to them several times for more $$, never had a problem. I imagine that there are few non-OE parts for a Porsche, so I wouldn't sweat that too much. I like the idea from one poster to keep all the pictures so that when you do sell the car down the road, the buyer can see what happened and what was repaired. And don't count on the comment that if there's no police report, there's no record of the accident - insurance companies do a lot of reporting on their own to insurance industry databases. I assume that CarFax gets most of their info from the DMVs but don't count out other sources. Again, don't sweat it, there's nothing that you can do about it now. Best of luck. Oh - and next time, stay off the phone when you're driving! Michael

I also have USAA and thanks to my kids have had to make a few claims over the years. The most recent was replacement of a transmission on VW after my daughter ran it over a parking lot concrete curb. They are very good and if at all possible try to use their shop. It will make things easier. They are very strict with their repair shops and will not allow them to cut corners. Generally they pick the better repair shops in the area. What I did find out though on the last claim, was that they will only authorize OEM parts for newer cars, after a car is so many years old, they will only pay for after market. With the VW I chose to have the work done at the VW dealer and there was a $300 difference between after market and OEM parts on a $2100 job. The dealer would only use OEM. The VW was a 2002 so at 4 years old they were already dropping back on what they would pay for. I am sure they will explain the policy in detail to you if you ask. The current issue of Business Week lists them as the number 1 customer service champ in the US. As for diminished value, you are really out of luck now. As a trade, your car will be substantially reduced. The suggestion to trade as is, might be a very smart move. You have to figure out the dollars and cents, but most Porsche dealers will really reduce your trade value if they know it was hit.

Sorry to hear about your crash! As you've to change the lights, bumper, fenders and hood anyway, why not going for a 997 conversion kit (seen on ebay for about $3K - unpainted).

here's what u do as many ppl have already lined out: 1. take your car to some good places, check it out, get an estimate. make sure there's no things like frame damager. your option: 1. repair the car to the org. spec. 2. sell the car as is. 3. put GT3 front, xenon lights. etc. 4. update front end to 996 MK II/GT3/997 whatever you want. either way, you won't out big $$, maybe not ever your detectable.

based on my experience as long as it is just cosmetic and using all original parts and an excellent paint guy... easily 10k and as much as 14k. now i am sure you could get it all taken care of for $5k by scrimping and sell it off ..

anyone know what it takes to get the airbag to deploy?

Got back from the shop that I use. Its a very hi-end shop, alot of porsche, ferrari and bently business, even alot of mosler and other exotics. In any case, there was a 2001 996 with almost identical damage already in there. The bill for it was up to $13k+. Their airbag deployed, mine didn't, so thats one difference, but for the most part very similar, probably looking at $10-13k ballpark. I dropped the car off and they will go thru it, and then also meet with USAA and sync up on a agreed upon initial estimate. I did notice drivers side fender was slightly buckeled, and where it meets the door is not all correct, so maybe a fender replacement on the drivers side as well. Drove the car over to the shop, let go of the wheel and car tracked straight, no looseness or wierdness in the front end. Bad news is its probably 8-10 weeks of work. I have to wait to get parts in, wait to get on frame, then a week or two on the frame, waiting for paint work and things like that, the shop stays busy. Found my litronics, just under $1400 for the set New. So I will get like $3k or so credit for my lights from USAA so that will help a bit. Brian

Sorry about the accident....hurts to see it...BUT look on the bright side...go for a 02 conversion!!! Look around on Ebay...I have done a conversion (without accident) and it is worth every penny!! cost around 4K......you might have to repair the underbody damage first.

BAsed on a similiar wreck of a friends 996 I will say $15K. His hood was not buckled as bad. The key to the whole thing is the trunk(hood) latch. When you hit something this hard and the hood buckles, it pulls the front support member back with it. That peice will have to be cut out and put on a frame alignment machine.

Damn! I will NEVER change the radio station in traffic again!

Signal-good luck. I was surprised and sorry to hear that it was soo much. Some good advice has been given.

You could upgrade to the 2002 light style as part of the repair, or you can find lots of front bumpers and old style fenders on Ebay from parties that have done the upgrades, them use a GT3 style hood.

And just what were you doing at the time that made you drive into the back of a van? Was there food, a cell phone, the radio, or a hot woman involved?

Signal - Ouch - Sorry - As long as you are OK This is why we have insurance. It should only cost you your deductible . Interesting point about the Options Sticker. Does anyone know where he can get a replacement?

Sorry man- I saw my car when I looked at your pics and it made my stomach turn- I have heard good things from your insurance company from friends so I hope that it works out well. Being without your car may be the harder thing to cope with

Pics made me think an immediate 13-17k loss. Anyway... Sounds like you have a good (high) estimate. I'm in the "cut me a check" camp from USAA. Argue your case for "these cars are worth less with this kind of damage history, even after they're fixed, so I deserve a little more". Sometimes they'll act like they can't do this and that, but they can. They will (have in my case), depending on how it's "handled". (if they bicker, demand they just total it...it's a porsche, and it's more than a fender bender). Then, find the bumper, sheet metal, parts, etc at a junk yard. Take to any inexpensive, competent body shop as it looks like a fairly easy fix (you're the only one who'll ever know the difference. "Little" things, that wouldn't be noticable to others, can magnify in our own minds). Might make yourself 5k, maybe more, depending... Sorry for your loss... good luck ps...my attitude's always been, on that kind of a hit and that kind of a car is...you lose even if you "win"....so you deserve some cash, even after it's fixed, to compensate or that loss then, again, you can just let'em fix it. I have USAA, they've always been good at bein' willin' to fix a car

While the bumper and headlights are off, reroute the hood emergency release cable to a more accessible location. Some put it behind the toe hook bumper plug. Some put it behind the side marker light. This could save you a lot of hassle some day if the hood won't open.

I thought about this, I mean now would be the time to do it right? It would be hard to get litronics and upgrade to 2002+ since from what I have read, getting all that to work with the control module can be difficult (retrofit). so I can keep it Aero 1/GT3, and get retrofit litronics new, no problem. If I goto 02+ facelift, then I may just use regular 02+ lights (cheap), but I am having trouble finding the one article that tells you *everything* you need to do a proper facelift, I mean all parts needed and any special gotchas. Does anyone know the best link/article that has this info? What would you do in my position, would you do a 02+ facelift? would you keep it Aero 1? I am trying not to go over too much on insurance settlement, maybe a few thousand that is it. One concern I have is that people who buy the car after me may think thats like "chop" looking taking a front end from a different year.........sort of ghetto. I like it, but just thinking about value to p-car buyers. Brian

I was going thru an intersection and looked as I went thru to get the street name off the intersection sign. there were street lights on every block, it must have been as soon as I turned my head the van in front of my came to a hard stop (traffic backing up from next light) and by the time I looked forward was too late. Now whenever I drive, I am tense, very stressed, having a hard time relaxing driving now.........after driving an hour or so I have alot of tension......

PTSD

PorscheTSD

Data Point: My car. Driver made a left turn in front of me. $15k repair, my choice of shop. No suspension damage. Got Dim Value reimbursement $5k.

I hope the girl with the short skirt bending over on the sidwalk was worht it...That sux! I say pushing $10, around 6-8. Sorry...

Yey, Kevin, they did a really good job of "buffing out those scratches!" Looks good!

Yeh, the paintwork is really good. I had to rag 'em about panel alignment issues though. Thanks for the thumbsup!

Ok, so here are some woes so far. As some of you know, my car was hit 2.5 weeks ago, its sat in the shop since then. USAA is paying a good claim I think there is plenty of money there to get things done. The body shop is being very difficult, and when I suggested we do the 02 facelift, they became very difficult. So I ended up moving my car to another shop today. Not really a high line porsche shop, just someone I know and can trust. I had to pay $500 in "storage fees" just to get my car out of there. I am going to do the 02 facelift. I haven't decided on Bi-Xenons or Standard lights though. I am going to get the parts estimates and go from there. To make things worse, my car has a crease in the passenger rear quarter panel, like a door opened and hit it, and it happened at the previous shop where I backed away from. So now I have to get those guys to pay for this crease or fix it....... With the 02 facelift, I am replacing fenders, bumper (GT3 style), headlights, sleds, fender liners, etc all parts needed, all porsche original and new. I will get fresh paint on the front of the car and a clear bra to protect it. Should be done in 2-3 weeks.

So how much is that going to set you back? Have USAA as well... good outfit from my experience

OH yeah, sorry for the boo boo, but cant wait to see the ride when its done. Better than ever.

It will be interesting to see how our cars come out in the end. My damage is almost the exact same as yours - at least bumber, hood, lights, fender. Fortunately nothing underneath was damaged on mine. The bodyshop quote was for $8,700 parts and labor. The Xenon's were $3k alone. I then told the body shop I'll supply the parts and faxed DPS Motorsport the itemization list. DPS saved me $2,100 in parts, which the body shop will cut me a check for. Most of it was in the Xenon's - I got the upgrade kit for $1,500 which has everything needed, just have to do the wiring myself - which the body shop will charge be $100-$200 for, but I'll still save around $1,300 just in the lights. No idea when I'll get my car back though. The guy that hit me spent 5 days in jail for DUI hit and run.

Wow, that's scary and disturbing for those of us looking for a used car Good for you though I guess.

Yeah I guess the Carfax can provide a bit of false security. It pays to have the car checked out independtly before you buy.

Signal, I'm from the 997 forum but I had someone run into me this past December and three months later I was able to pick her up brand new. Definitely get the alignment checked. I had mine reset and it's fantastic. Take Care and good luck with the repairs. Check my thread on the 997 forum. https://rennlist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=339319[/URL] Jay

Thanks jay, My plan is to have the body addressed, its in the shop now. Full '02 facelift coming, with Bi-Xenons, all new porsche parts, new pain, clear bra. I will have the body shop address any dings or issues with the car so we are totally fresh. Then off to Porsche, to get the alignment done, brakes and front end mechanical check out.

Ok so all work is done. 02+ Facelift with all new factory parts, fresh paint, silver crest, Bi-Xenon lights, in a few more weeks I will have the clear bra on, here are the pics: Future projects include finishing the stereo upgrade, non-colored center caps, painting the tophats, and pse-like modified 3.6L mufflers!

Wow, congrats on having your car back. It looks gorgeous. The silver emblem was a good choice.

Are you going to stick with taco wing or change it to aero II wing??

better than new! lol cong~~~~~~

Very nice! That conversion looks so good!

Looks GREAT

I really like the Taco wing. Besides I do have mk1 side skirts, so was never an attempt to go all aero II, the thing is you have no choice when you goto 02+ facelift, you have to go aero II, as aero I bumper can't work.

Signal, the car looks very nice with the MY02 update I also have USAA insurance - did you request compensation for diminished value?

I did not request dim value, I have been told by many that you cannot request dim value on an accident that is your fault. Does anyone know to the contrary?

Horsepoopie. It doesn't matter who was at fault, the value is still diminished.

Very nice. Any out of pocket for the '02 upgrade? Litronics? I would think that would cover your diminished value concerns. AA

I think that would be governed by the terms of your policy with USAA. You should sit down and read it end-to-end. CP