Oil starvation....

I read before on this board of 996's having a problem with oil starvation during track usage. I have not noticed this problem myself before this past weekend at Summit Point. On several turns the oil preassure drops dramatically. I know B-K sells a baffle kit. If I recall correctly Porsche also sells a baffle kit as part of the Power Package for the 996. Does anyone have experience with either of these kits? Information on the Porsche part would be great. And yes I tried a search but came up dry...so to say.

Unless you are running slicks and pushing the car to the limit, you need not worry. Not trying to convince you to NOT get a oil kit but just giving you the 411. Hopefully Jim will chime in since he has alot of expereince tracking a 996C2.

I think the answer is that you don't need one but to be honest I don't think any of us really knows. I DE'ed and raced my 996 for many years without one and it ran great. But, when I added a 3.6L with the power kit I added the Porsche kit just to be safe. After 3 years of racing the 3.6L its leak downs are 5-6%. Nearly perfect. So who knows. Bottom line. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't bother. If you would like the extra piece of mind, go for the BK kit. I don't think it does much but it's a fraction of the cost of the factory kit which might not even be available anymore. Jim

I knew it was just a matter of short time before you swooped in to save the day

With that crystal clear response? Have a good weekend. I've got to go polish my flames!

And such beautiful flames they are

Thanks guys for the input. I may check the price for the B-K kit and go from there. Nice to know I don't have to worry too much at this point.

Brey Krause doesn't seem to change the baffle but rather adds a half quart of capacity. I recently did the x51 baffle after seeing some drops in vigorous mountain driving (heavy braking at the end of a high speed straight with a hard, almost hairpin turn and immediate climb out of the turn). Ordered it from Suncoast or Sunset, can't remember which. Easy install. Certainly no more difficult than the B-K. Haven't been back to the mountains since the install though so I can't comment on its effectiveness yet. It is substantially different than the original factory baffle though. Cover's the sides of the pan more and is metal instead of plastic like the original.

Is there a new baffle kit? The factory oil starvation kit requires that you remove the heads and have some new holes tapped into them. I don't remember the specifics but it was not an easy DIY. Maybe they've come up with something new or else they are selling part of the kit. Jim

Here's a link Jim http://e-partssales.com/Merchant2/me..._Code=996sport

I did the x51 pan... I had to put an extra quart in (factory recommends 9 quarts). I really cant explain why. Can anyone else confirm this? Does the X51 pan hold an extra quart?

redridge, I don't think so, although you might have gotten a much better drain this time round. The part numbers for the x51 pan itself matched my 99's original pan.

I must be missing something. Please educate. The original post indicates that the pressure drops dramatically in some turns. Unless my physics is off, the only way that can occur is if the oil pump is sucking air.

Think about the lateral g's you are inducing with slicks and where the oil ends up? Hence the advantage to running with the baffles inside. Or better yet, running a true dry-sump system ala the GT3.

Right and you said "need not worry." Seems to me, if he's pulling air, he should worry.

Who said he's "pulling air"?

About time someone didn't reduce this to "not pushing it to limits", "good leakdown numbers", etc. He said his oil pressure drops. That IS a problem. Yes, you need to address that. Some combination of baffles, extra oil, increased head drainbacks, etc. If drainback is sluggish, I would overfill to compensate while at the track. Then with a warm and running engine, you never have an overfill condition except at startup. This is less likely to do damage then dry main bearings. I'd experiment with a half then maybe a quart extra and monitor the gauge. Try to keep yopur eyes on the track too, as to not induce a diferent type of problem.

Big6 said it. "On several turns the oil preassure drops dramatically". I'm thinking he ain't running through these turns at idle. Only other thing to drop pressure is from gulping air.

That's quite a bit to infer from his statement. It is imperative to know EXACTLY what the pressure reading was at, tire and suspension setup, as well as engine telemetry. But to turn this into panic mode saying that he needs "this and that" to address this "problem" is ludicrous.

Bad advice. Overfilling will result in your 996 becoming a mosquito fogger after the first long sweeper.

Look, it's really simple, actually. If you've got good oil pressure, and it drops suddenly for any reason, you either have a failing oil pump, a failing bearing, or you're pulling air (cavitation) from the intake side of the pump. If you're pulling air, then you're pushing that air through the bearings, and the bearings will collide with the rod or crank journal. Over time, you'll ruin the bearings. Air compresses about 1000 times easier than a liquid (oil), so you cannot have any air in the oil that is supplied to the main or rod bearings. This might not produce a problem immediately, but over time, you will have to replace the bearings in the engine or else throw a rod ultimately.

mantis sport has a replacement baffle and spacer setup with a sump extension that adds 1.5qt and solves the oiling issues. they run it on their PCA racer. i think it's around $600 canadian. not sure what that is in 'real' dollars. i think it's like $515 US.

last thing we need here is another smart ***. I understand the concept of oil pressure, as do most that have posted to this thread. As I have already stated, we have ZERO telemetry data for his problem. His situation has been addressed with possbile "upgrades" to ease his mind for the track and the associated lateral g's. Beyond that, there is really nothing else to comment on.

LVDell, with all due respect, can you explain the possible causes of oil pressure plummeting on executing high g-force turns? I, like the other poster, can reason only a few possibilities. A bad oil pump, large bearing clearance or huge leak in a main pressure gallery are most but not all. The other clue given us is that this phenomenon occurs only during high lateral g's. By far, the most common reason for loss of pressure during cornering is the oil moving away from the oil pickup. Much less common (but still possible) is so much oil moving into the rotating assembly that it is churned and aerated, giving the same result of air in the oil pump pickup. This possibility is pretty much impossible on a 996 engine because of the crankcase design and pickup position. I don't understand why you won't acknowledge any diagnosis that does not rely on telemetry. If you can suggest some other remote possibilities that do not include air being ingested, some of like would like to consider them. BTW Porsche put baffles around the oil pickup in these engines to combat exactly this type of situation. I speculate they are just not 100% effective on a racetrack.

At this point in the thread there is absolutely no reason to continue to SPECULATE as to what the OP experienced without proper data. For example, what EXACTLY is "drastic drop"? We could debate what-ifs until this dead horse is beat, but why?

Sorry, I felt the need to elaborate because if a prior post, you said "need not worry." Truth is, it's an issue. On a slightly different note, something that might be of interest to everyone reading this thread relates to two problems I have seen on a 1965-1990 smallblock Chevy engine with a 4-quart oil pan. When turning tight corners, the oil pressure would drop dramatically, suddenly and then rise again, indicating oil starvation. This is why one of the major upgrades on these types of engines was a larger and deeper 6,7 or 8 quart oil pan. The oil pickup was deeper and the pan held more oil. Solved that problem, but then there was another, separate problem potentially going on. When running higher RPMs, the oil pressure would drop slowly and gradually as the crank and rods created windage in the oil pan. The problem was worse the higher the RPM and higher the temperature. Basically, oil was being whipped around and aerated, so the solution here was to install a windage tray below the crank. Basically, any time you have a drop in oil pressure, it has to do with windage, starvation, excessive heat or improper viscosity.

No need to apologize. If anybody does it is me for calling you a smart ***. Apparently we are approaching this from 2 different sides. However, the truth is, that it is NOT an issue. However, the caveat to that is, unless you are running slicks and have the suspension to take full advantage of that. Not sure why you feel this is an issue. Are you talking in general or specific to the OP?

Why? Because I have direct experience with non-Porsche engines having oil starvation issues and I've had to replace bearings because of it. Replacing bearings on a non-Porsche engine can sometimes be quick and easy to do, but on a flat-6, it usually means a total engine rebuild.

from what i understand, it's not an issue on the 3.6L, but IS an issue on the 3.4L and on the 987 boxsters. any truth to this? on my track car (boxster), sustained high G cornering (>1.0G) will cause some valve chatter that goes away after a few seconds. it's almost like the lifters sag from either starvation or from oil saturated with air. i always attributed this to the pickup point in the car's sump & the sump design; i've seen other boxsters and 996's do this. no logged data to verify pressure drops, just a noticable symptom.

Dell beat me to it but my question would be, what evidence is there that oil starvation is a problem? I don't think you can take a few examples where the oil pressure gauge dips in corners and use it to come to that conclusion. Not when we've seen hundreds of thousands of 996 track miles without oiling kits with relatively few engine problems. Jim

Left or right hand corners? Sweepers or tight turns? Approx. speed? I'm really curious. I have thousands of track miles in 3.4Ls and this is the first I've heard of valve chatter.

I have not heard of anybody having oiling issues on this board running street tires or r-comps. Where it gets to be a toss up is a "track suspension" coupled with slicks. But at that point I am sure most would add the baffle kit. As has been noted, Jim had significant expereince tracking the M96 motor. I traacked my 996CAB for several years really pushing it hard and never experienced and oil starvation issues. However, I moved to a GT3 to give me the "proper" platform to full exploit as my skill level continues to increase. The only thing I would move to from here is a Cup car but I can't make that kind of committment just as I love driving the 3 around town from time to time.

Not sure if murphy is buying that. I've tried Jim. I pulling the cord on my chute.

I am all for a different conclusion as to why the gauge drops in corners. The trouble is, I can't think of one. If anyone knows, then please post it here!

Don't think you're gonna get an answer here (other than mine). Thinking seems to be that without flight recorder data, we should all refuse to even discuss the possible causes of oil starvation. Ah, youthful exuberance!

The fact is, ANY drop in oil pressure while maintaining rpm's is a result of less oil pumping through the engine which translates into less than optimum oiling of the engine. I sure would't want to be running my engine at 7000 rpm and see the pressure drop. I guess my first response would be to remove the Mobil water from the engine and put in a better oil and then go on from there. Most likely cause if the pressure returns after the sweep, would be air being sucked up by the pickup. Not a good thing.

Wasn't your answer to add more oil. Nice call.

The problem (with this alleged problem) is where are the all the broken cars?? Where are all the trashed motors??? After all literally hundreds (probably thousands) of M96 Boxsters and Carerra's are being taken to tracks all over the world. There are tons of these cars at every event that I attend. There have been a few "my cousins, sisters, friend knows a guy who had his engine blow" type reports. But certainly no RMS or "Bob" type groundswells. Where is the smoking gun or better still all the "smoldering motors" from oil starvation? I've been tracking my Boxster (on R Compounds) now for 6 years and I have not experienced the type of valve clatter you are describing. Even on long sweepers like the Carousel at Road America or the long South 1 and 2 combo at Autobahn. Additionally, I have not noticed anyone else having these problems at the events I have been at. I'm not saying you aren't experiencing it. I'm only saying that in 6 years I never have.

Good point. Where are all the damaged engines? I don't know. I do know that Porsche has admitted to the problem "under certain circumstances." So, the question is, does your gauge suddenly drop in certain corners? If not, then I'm sure you don't have a problem. I would be interested to find out how many people actually notice the gauge dropping and have subsequently run 30,000 track miles without performing the engine update.

if i do some hard left hand sweepers one after the other, the left hand bank gets valve chatter. the right bank never does it. i've seen the identical symptom on a few other boxsters and the reverse problem (right bank chatter after right hand sweepers) on two 3.4L C2's. it only happens when you get the oil good and hot (i.e. at the track or very aggressive on street).

good question. i hear of a few motors here and there letting go on the track, but no more than usual i suppose. not every car does it, but the ones that do will do it consistently.

Amusing thread to say the least