I NEED OPINIONS, FAST! Trade my car for Turbo?

Ok, got a call from the Porsche dealer, they have a Black on Tan 2001 911 Turbo with 20k miles, CPO. They really need to unload it. It lists for $69900. They will give me $48k for my C4S. A difference of $22k. I said, sorry, no way not even close, after we negotiatted down to $18,9 difference and that was as low as they would go, I said, $15k difference, FINAL OFFER. He wouldn't even go in and ask cause he said, I'm not in the ballpark. So I left. He called 15 min later, said $16,9 difference -- I said $15k difference and NO DEALER FEE's. He said sorry. Called me back 10 minutes later. He said $15,600 diff i said, $15k diff EVEN. If you can't do it, DON"T CALL ME BACK AGAIN! He went back in and asked, the manager said NO. I said, sorry we can't do business, REALLY NOT expecting to hear back again. He called back 5 minutes later. $15k dif even, we're prepping it now! I said, NOW I'll have to think about it. WHat should I DO, my Rennlist friends?? Edit: I did go drive it, my 1st Turbo. OMFG ITS FAST!!! HOLY CRAP!! Feels close to a motorcycle speed!! Once that turbo builds at like 5k it whips you back! I LOVE IT! Things I DON'T like. Clutch is soft and ez AND no glove box.. Must be a different clutch they used in MY2001..?

Do it!

Absolutely do it....I am thinking about doing the same thing...glad you stuck by your guns...always great to hear a guy who sets his limit and sticks with it.

Jump on it and don't ever look back! CONGRATULATIONS!

Talked to the guy. They do want $1800 MORE to make it CPO....

do it... my god do it. CPO is worth it to me. Beware.. driving a TT will ruin you to drive any other car. My TT is my daily driver..best thing Ive ever done.

Tell them to go and play with themselves. The deal was CPO and they're playing bait and switch.

Sounds like a great deal. I would do it if it's $15K out the door.

I agree - plus, they obviously have no other takers for the car right now - stick to the original $15k deal and have them include CPO - they'll whine, but they'll do it.

I totally agree. They took something off the table that was originally on it. I'm walking!

Nope, i called them, told them I'd pay $600 towards the price of the CPO. They said no deal. Deal is over!

Good man! I had that done to me recently when i was buying a new DD. I was really annoyed and it took more back and forth on the phone, but we eventually got back to where I wanted to be. Stand your ground. I'm sure they'll cave and you'll have your new car soon.

They'll call back. It might take a couple of days, but they'll call back.

I totally agree. Gant, They are playing bait and switch for sure with you. You made a good faith offer to meet them half way. I would pretty much stick to your offer of $15.6K. They haven't sold it yet, and my guess is you'll get a call by mid-week, with another counter. I might move up $100-200 at most, as I wouldn't lose the car for a couple of hundred, especially if it's what you truly want - and it sounds like you do. When I negotiated the price of my C4S, salesman made clear that price included CPO. I actually tried to negotiate a price without CPO, but he said once the car is certified, it can't be "de-CPO'd." In retrospect, obviously, I'm glad I bought the car with certification - peace of mind is worth the extra $$. Good luck - keep us posted. Phil

Sucks not get the car you want or is this an impulse buy. If it is the car you want buy it and enjoy

My brother-in-law was the used car sales manager for ....let's just say....a large car dealership. He clued me in on all the games these guys play. In this case, I can almost visualize the salesman going back to the manager and being told...."call the guy back and get another $1800 for the CPO...he's hot for this deal". Stick to your guns....these guys are masters at psychological warfare...and they've had a lot of practice and know what works and what doesn't. I can almost assure you that this scenario has been played out many times before, and they have a good idea of what tactic works for a few thousand more.

Well, I'm really looking at a 2005 997S, and selling MY car on the open-market. But after driving that Turbo, and the prospect of getting it for only a diff of $15k from MY car AND -- NOT having to sell my car, but to trade it in --- I would have done it. Alas, it didn't work out. All part of the process. I think it's great that I have you guys to assist in my decision. It's part of what makes it such a great community. Thanks again, Rennlist,

Do it!

You suck! They'll call you back.

You will be dreaming about that car tonight. Sounded like a smoking deal until they threw that extra at you - bastards. If you want it - offer to split the $1800 with them - as another responded, don't lose a good deal for a few hundred bucks. I once went with a buddy to buy a new BMW - he took me all the way to Valencia (a solid hour drive from me) and ended up walking because they would not throw in floor mats. I promised to buy them for him if he would get me get the hell out of there. In the end, he ended up paying almost $1000 more for the same car with the stupid floormats at another dealer.

if this is your daily driver, i'd go for the 997S. there is a world of difference b/w any 2005 car and its 2001 predecessor. a lot of money for a 6 yo car. i went from a 00 996 to a 05 997s and i love it. also, seems like unbecoming behavior for a p-car dealer. i wouldn't buy from them for that reason alone-- esp since you need a good relationship with the dealer you buy from to get the best ongoing CPO coverage, i.e. the ability to go back for the smallest things no questions asked.

It's not my daily-driver (full-time), more like my half-time driver/fair weather driver. I'm starting to change my mind from the 997S to the 2001/2002 TT. Here's my thinking. The 997S will creep into the $50's over the next 3 to 4 years, whereas the Turbo will hold strong at around $60k to $65, I don't think the legendary Turbos are going to go into the 50's, that is if they are low mileage and in pristine condition. My thinking is that the time is NOW to buy a $65k 996, 911 Twin Turbo!

Couple things Gant. Do the F'in deal for crying out loud. You are pissin' over a measly 1K? For a car of this dollar figure and CPO'd? Seriously, give them the weekend to try and find a buyer (which they will) and then call them monday morning let them know you have found another TT but is NOT local. Give them another opp to give you the "best" deal and then do it. As for your market analysis and belief of future values is really comical. I gotta give it to you though, you really beleive what you say. To think that the 997TT will not push the 996TT into the 50's and below when the 997TT is in the 60's is just denial. Quit trying to justify pricing and future-casting values on a DEPRECIATING asset. If you really like the TT, oops, I mean LOVE the TT then go get that sucker and never look back. You have what I beleive is a really good deal on the table right now and to balk at 1K in difference out of priciple is quite stubborn. Either that or you really weren't prepared to buy it when they final came within 1K of what you thought was "the deal" to shoot for. EIther way, best of luck. You have a great C4S right now and possibly a sweet TT coming. You can't go wrong driving either one. Go have a few drinks and enjoy the weekend. Let them sweat over the deal, not you.

Dell, as usual, you make excellent points. I'd just rather drop my C4S to $52k, move it fast and negotiatte with cash. Remember, I'm trying to be as patient as I can be and minimize my loss, in the end. Don't forget, any 911 Turbo is part of a very exclusive club. Furthermore, the 996TT is REAL, REAL fast, as well as has already dropped about half-price. There also aren't a billion of them out there, as there are with C2/C4's/C4S's My guess with all this, is that the 996TT is the best car to buy, RIGHT NOW. I think they have bottomed out price-wise. This is my reason for leaning this way. As far as enjoying the weekend, last nite I had a first-date with a gorgeous 24 year old italian girl, I'd show you all her myspace page, but that wouldn't be smart! Anyhow it went awesome and I am definitely enjoying the weekend!!

What.....What is this I read.....is Gant starting to come back to Earth? You really are on the mark with your thinking this time. Yes the TT is great car to own long term. YOu have the GT1 block (like my GT3) the heritage of the "Turbo" line and right now what appears to be a good deal on the table. If there is "trade-in tax credit" in your state then you really need to make the deal with the dealer. Sell yours for 52K and then buy theirs for say 67CPo'd and you are right back at 15K difference......but.....then you save some serious coin on the tax credit if you were to trade in at the 15K difference you were shooting for. Run the numbers. You would be better off with the deal. As for the Italian............

Gant - there is absolutely no way that an average '01/'02 Turbo will be going for $60k to $65k in 3 to 4 years from now. Basically you are buying this car (the TT) for about $66K +/-. Do you really think that this car will only depreciate somewhere between 2.3% (@ $65k) to 10.8% (@ $60k) over the next 3 to 4 years? 3 years from now you will be fortunate to get $52k to $54k, and in 4 years you will be fortunate to get $48k to $50k. That is an average depreciation of about 8% per year, which is about right for a 5 to 9 year old car. I am not saying you should not get the TT, but I do have to agree with Dell on this one (and you know how much I HATE to admit THAT! ) that cars are depreciating assets and they have a normal rate at which they depreciate. Get the car because you want it, not because you hope it won't depreciate much. If you buy it for the former reason, you will be very happy with it. But if you buy it for the latter reason, you will be very diasppointed in the end. I hope you can get this deal worked out, 'cuz I really want to bug you to post pics of the TT here on the "regular" 996 Forum!

I can't believe you didn't just do it...sounds like a good deal...and the TT is just classic.

I'm still stunned that Gant is a lawyer.... the rest is sort of passing me by as blah blah blah until the lawyer bit sinks in. ...well, other than the fact that he's dating hot 24yr old Italians... now that bit I caught. Although, she's a little too young for me and Tim.

Too young? Define "too young" And before you guys lambaste me for enjoying this vicarious window shopping, I love my wife and she is my 20 something hottie

I am with Dell.......we are talking freakin peanuts here!!!! You can't put a price on pleasure!!! UNLESS you are not really sure you want the Turbo and looking for an excuse to get out! So make up your mind first////997s or Turbo???

man.... i would have to agree with dell and tim here...... just buy it because you WANT it..... give them a call and tell them you have an offer around 100 miles away, and that you will give them one more chance...... they might just budge given that this is the end of the month.....gl

Well, let's see... I personally don't see myself dating someone of that age. How about that? Late 20's then I could go for that, but 24 is a little too young for me... they mostly still have some growing up to do at that age.

Good point! That's why they're motivated. It's quota time and they need to move cars from the lot! Gant, you just got your leverage back, but you only have it for 2 days.

does your state charge tax on the trade-in difference or sales price? if the former, there's another couple/several grand savings doing a trade in. in the end, i do agree that several hundred dollars shouldn't make a difference if you really want the car. i suspect that, somewhere and somehow, you don't really want this car-- otw, you'd be driving it now. listen to your instincts. when paying that much, you gotta buy that car you can't live without. seems like you were intent on a 997s. probably still are.

get it

I hope the dealer and the salesmen you are talking with are not on this forum, or Gant your cards are being broadcast on the giant screen TV overhead while you sit at the "Buyer vs Porker Dealer Poker Tournament" table. I've been following Porsches for decades and watching prices of 993 and 996 for a long time now. (When there was NOOOO way I could afford any, of course that's when I started paying close attention to the costs of having one.) This is no earth-shaking news, but: I don't think the 996TTs will hold their values as well as 993TTs. there were fewer 993TTs and they are the last of the air-cooled. The 996TTs now are at the same price or lower than the 993TTs. All of you are right: I tried a C4S yesterday and it IS a lot less exciting than the Turbo. But, it is a great car, and for a lot less $$$. I would get a 996TT rather than a 993TT, because I think it's a better fit for the daily grind, especially if inclement weather is in your area (and in Saint Louis you will have rain and snow) like it will be in mine. But, my point in mentioning the 993TT is that I would not be getting the 996TT as an investment item , and no I don't think it will be holding its value as well as the 993TTs do.

I will only pay tax's on the difference.

Guys, how about THIS one, with the X50!! http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...e=&cardist=908

Being from California, I did not even know about this tax-on-the-difference thing until my buddy justified trading his car into a dealer to save the sales tax. I said, "what are you talking about?" I had no clue, but it is a SWEET deal. I think I would have saved at least $30K in my lifetime so far. As if they are not screwing us enough in CA as it is. As for the turbo - I say go for it.

regarding the one in Albany: you'll have to find a place to do a PPI in Albany. Have you done a PPI on this TT you are almost buying? If not, I would do it, to protect yourself from surprises, but also to possibly use as bargaining tool if anything comes up less than perfect.

I'm not a black and tan fan. But losing a car you want over a few hundred dollars makes no sense to me in the senseless world of Porsche buying!

agree 100%, which is why i think it's not the price Arrogant's concerned about. it's either the car itself or the dealer, or both. he doesn't feel it in his gut, which, again, sums up p-car buying rationale. arrogant, keep on shopping, dude!

Go for it! I don't get it, if you're undecided because of a grand or two. Price is only one factor in the equasion and is often the easiest one to satisfy. It can be much more difficult and time consuming to find the right car in the right colors with the right mileage, options, etc. It took me me 15 months of searching to find the right car, regardless of price, and when I found it the price happened to be very good. Had it not been I would have gladly paid more. If you have the means to buy Porsches, making an extra few hundred or thousand dollars shouldn't be that big of deal. As others have said these cars are a depreciating asset and an emotional want rather than a need. If it trips your emotional trigger, go for it.

Word! I think I'm gonna sell my car 1st. Then, with cash in hand, I'm gonna spend a few G's more, and look throughout the country for a 2002 Turbo WITH X50. Towbin motorcars has one, in Vegas. I wanna be on "The King Of Cars"!!

What are the odds that the dealer is reading this thread? That's the equivalent of a first post w/o pictures. If you're going to drop something like that on us we want pictures! What do the rest of y'all think? Tim?

Awe man, I was really hoping you guys wouldn't do this.... I could pull a couple of pics off her Myspace page. The chances of getting burned HAVE to be like 1,000,000 to 1... My luck, some random Rennlister will know her and I will be SO SCREWED!!!! Anyhow, I've already "procured" 2 dates w/her for next week....if this screws me, I will certainly commit harry-carry!!!

Pics of "The Italian Girl" who WILL remain nameless, for right now.

You wish she will screw you!

She is very nice looking! Why did you block out the "bust shot" in the 3rd pic? I think that was pretty inconsiderate of you to do that!

Pics or ban (of the 3d shot).

Come on guys....you can see half the left boob in that 3rd pic

...well, you know all you need is a handful, anything else is just wasteful. BTW, don't you think that the guy in Photo #2 has kinda girly fingers? Sorry, I notice stuff like that.

Gant, she would look really nice in that black & tan turbo. I don't think you could go wrong with that combo. I searched for months for a perfect low mile SL600 for my wife. I found it a few months ago. I called the dealer and gave them my bottom line, out the door price. I told them not to call me back unless we had a deal. A few hours later...my wife had her dream car. I just watched my wife and daughter drive off in the SL to go to the store. I'm like Dell, I married my dream girl. Seeing her in that beautiful car takes my breath away. If you really like the color combo, I would jump on that car. It appears that they are really easy to add extra power to once you get used to the incredible stock power. Good luck with the car and the girl. Dell, only 13 more posts till you hit 10,000....that's pretty impressive.

Thanks, Fletcher!

Damn you guys, check THIS one out. They say it had some damage when it had 4k miles, but if the title is clean and it PPI's ok...what do you guys think? http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...e=&cardist=217 Can someone tell me if this car has a clean title? WP0AB29943S685088

Nice date, Gant...suddenly I feel like having spaghetti.....

Looks good from the pics! Call them and ask what kind of damage it was. Then negotiate the price down more coz' of the damage (assuming it's not major damage and was fixed properly)

Gant, explain something to me. it's been a long time since i stalked a woman, but how and why do you have pics (multiple ones) of this woman after one date? anyway, where are the true stalker pics? you know, the ones where you waited patiently outside....

I looked at a 99 C2 sometime back, and it PPI'd fine, drove great, had the necessary options...but the Carfax showed an accident in Georgia in 02. I found out that the "accident" was nothing more than the car scraped a divider rail...no damage other than paint. So Cosmos is right...you need to find out exactly what "damage" means....and regardless of how insignificant it might be, you know as well as I do, that when it comes to selling any car that shows any record of "damage"...it immediately becomes suspect and harder to sell than one without such history. You more than likely will be able to negotiate them down a bit with the issue of damage, but that will also come back to haunt you when you go to sell. What's that term they use for a car that's been in an accident....Diminished value??

You dog! But seriously, if a car is suspected of having damage, make sure you have a body shop take a look and confirm the frame is not bent.

pics from her myspace.com page...the stalker shots will come, later...

myspace-- what is that? a stalker service that will obtain the pics for you? damn, i've been out of it. ok, being serious for a sec, she's got a page and posts pics of herself for the world so anyone can take her pics and post em on sites like this where horny men who talk about cars can occasionally talk about chicks? man, i feel old (btw, i'm only 33). curious, how do women on a date respond to a 911? i never had one when i was single (damn), so i can only vicariously live through you.

Gant, I lost track of this thread pretty early on. I cannot speak to what the dealer is doing (or not doing, if things have changed). But I will say this: the Turbo is awesome. It makes my C2 pale in comparison. Cheers!

Get a myspace.com page Anyhow, she said nothing about my car. I used valet service at the restaraunt and the 3 clubs we went to. Parked it right up front. Got attention from other people, as usual. She was totally unaffected and acted like she could have cared less about the car she was in.

yea, right. the fact she said nothing and appeared unaffected means she was trying hard to play it cool-- evidenced by the fact that you sealed the deal, right?

Hehe. Sealed-the-deal? Well, good 1st date....good conversation, good food, atmosphere. Great clubs, fun drinking. Enjoyed a DJ friend of mine. We made out a few times. Dropped her off at her car...made out more. Sealed-the-deal for 2 more dates, next Fri and Sat. I had a great time, and she claims she did, too. So..we'll see...

Did the same...do it. You'll love it. Get a PPI or CPO it. Have them check the clutch.... JB

That's a good sign, it means she's probably not a dude in drag. What does she drive?

Ferrari F430!! hehe jk, mazda tribute.

mind you, i am SO living vicariously through you. but, let me just add, if you're single with a 911 and not sealing the deal every night, then you best be at the track every weekend talking fully advantage of that thing! for the sake of humanity and all married suckers like me.....

ZOOM ZOOM! Heh, heh, heh.

Gant, I don't know if you said, but how old are you?

35

F430 - No wonder she was not impressed by your 911.

You even had to think about it?

Well, then twenty four is no problem and not an issue. I'm a young looking thirty three and (just about only) date women in their mid twenties. lol, I was at a church dinner a couple of weeks ago and the sixteen year old girl sitting next to me was squeezing my leg under the table so life's not necessarilty like that famous episode of the TV show Thirtysomething where the one limp you know what thirtysomething male whines to the other "You know how you know when you're thirtysomething... When you become invisible to young women..." That episode is like a rorschach test for the people that wrote it. I'm quite sure that a thought like that has never crossed Matthew Mcconnaughey's mind. (Of course after a certain point the age difference can make it tough to relate to someone so you either need to be immature like me or find a girl that is mature for her age, I guess.)

+1 Nine9Sixer, I too am living vicariously through this thread as I am also your age and married. JK. I sometimes wonder what it would be like to be single again with my 911. I am sure I'd be getting all kinds of tail. Yeah Right, I'm sure that's how it would be . Gant, best of luck to you with the "Italian Exotic" and finding the right car. GO BUY THE TURBO!!!, JMHO. Remember, those Italian exotics are high maintenance but they sure are exhilarating.

hehe. i guess everything's about the right time and right place. if only our marital status, disposable income, and foolishness to buy a p-car were properly aligned. i had a bimmer when dating my now wife, can't remember anymore if that sealed the deal ..... Gant, i hope it's clear that we expect a full progress report of your own private mille miglia. of course, i don't mind pics on that internet-freeway portal kids today call, myspace. btw, what kind of law do you practice? i'm in-house counsel, hence all my free time for surfing boards like this (and, now, myspace pages of other people's girlfriends).

I'm not a lawyer, just play one on Rennlist!

Also, girls that are not slightly impressed with a $90k (originally) car are usually the types that EXPECT you to spend a ton of $$ on them! Caviat Emptor!!

then why the link?

I work at a law-school. Posted pics on our website.

That's cool Gant. So which Turbo are you going to buy?

ahhh. now, i'm curious. but in the interest of being discrete, i won't ask. anyway, so does your school have a policy against dating students, esp foreign ones from italy?

I'd be surprised if she was a law student. She's the right age, but US law schools have very few foreign students for various reasons. Oh and Gant's not a professor, so she wouldn't be his student anyway...

yea, i know, but can you help a brotha out? i was upping the story for us married dudes. i have no more direct experiences, they're all vicarious.

I think I need to do a PPI on the Italian girl for you before you commit...

She's not foreign, she's born here. Met her through a friend. I DO NOT date students.

Why not? You're missing out

I can't even contemplete dating a 24 year old. They look nice, but they still have some growing up left to do. ... I guess it would work if you could duct tape their mouths closed for a while. This story just further reinforces the sad truth that Porsches are for guys and women are unimpressed by them.

Isn't the rule: divide your age by 2 and add 7? If you're 35, then the proper age (or minimum age, depending on who you ask) is 24-25. So, you're spot on! I'm sure she digs your car...even if they don't know exactly what it is, all the women I know say my car is "pretty" or "beautiful". Blah-blah, doesn't matter....it's fast and I'm married!

Holy crap! I'm 42 and I'm dating a 25 year old.

[QUOTE=flash80]Isn't the rule: divide your age by 2 and add 7? If you're 35, then the proper age (or minimum age, depending on who you ask) is 24-25. So, you're spot on! QUOTE]\ You got it. I'm 38 and dating 26. Highly recommend it.

[QUOTE=flash80]Isn't the rule: divide your age by 2 and add 7? If you're 35, then the proper age (or minimum age, depending on who you ask) is 24-25. So, you're spot on! [QUOTE]\ You got it. I'm 38 and dating 26. Highly recommend it.

I thought it was divide your age by two then double it?

um, er, mmm, eh . . . WHA?

As I said, they look good, but they've not done anything in life yet and I Know most of them would not share my interests in life.

ohhhhhh . . . . you're looking for something meaningful like sharing the same interests and then having conversations about them. oh, ok, that was our disconnect . . . .

yeah, all would be well if I could duct-tape their mouth closed.

Not saying it's an absolute, but gotta keep it professional...you know, don't crap where you eat.

speak for yourself, man.