Rolled through a stop sign...

Took a stop sign in 2nd to save wear on the clutch (stupid, I know)...there was a cop standing up the road watching for it, and well...the rest is history. He approached as I was driving by him and waved me over into a parking lot to issue me a $75 ticket. This post is not to rant about cops, but rather to seek advice on how to proceed. Should I plead guilty and pay the 75 bucks? Will that go on my record and affect insurance? Or should I go to court (plead not guilty) in hopes they'll just make me pay a fine but avoid the insurance point. The $75 doesn't matter, I'll pay that...but I want to do what I can to avoid higher insurance rates (aside from the obvious tactic of coming to a COMPLETE stop in the future)

I guess it depends on where you are. Here in PA, you will almost always do better going to court. This is especially true if you didn't fight with the cop who gave you the ticket. I suspect the same is true for most jurisdictions. Stefan

you never no... going to court is a crapshot.... if the cop doesn't show up...... bingo... but if he does.... you're chance of winning is almost zero.... i just went to court for not having my lights on at 8 pm........ and the cop didn't show up... so it was a victory for me... but everyone there who tries to fight it, FORGET ABOUT IT.......

go to court and plead GUILTY say that you are sorry and stuff.... if you had a clean record they might forgive you and not give you any points so your insurance will not go up...you would only have to pay the ticket and court fees..

My math says you should try to fight it. If you do, you have a chance to win, but a chance to lose. If you don't go to court, you have only a chance to lose. Assuming that losing gets you the same thing in either case, you should give fighting the ticket a go. Besides, I'm sure the court would have mercy on a poor Porsche driver -td

Thanks guys...I appreciate the advice. Will keep you posted.

I blew past a cop on a deep far away deserted back road a few years ago in a hot rod Carrera 3.2 at conservatively 160 mph. he was parked..snoozing. I pulled off, parked..waited, sat on the front fender and waited for him to catch up. He was very polite not pissed..but ran even my dammn library card.. we chatted about stuff. He wrote me up 7 violations all designed to help me loose my license for at least 1 year!@#$%^ I went to court to plead guilty. He did not show. The judge and his sgt was pissed, tried to find him made me wait till the end of court while they frantically searched. Nope. I got a free pass. I did the speed limit all the way home.... Go to court.

You cannot do worse than what's on the ticket. The trick is to speak the cop right before the hearing. "Officer, blah blah blah, I'm sorry, I didn't realize blah, blah, blah. Can you drop or reduce the points and just have me pay the fine? PLEEEASE?" The response is usually some kind of compromise. If the answer is no, then you'll probably lose, but at least you'll have tried. Stefan

I always get a traffic ticket lawyer to fight speeding tickets, but I dont know if you can use them for red lights.

Go to court. Most likely case scenario is that you plead guilty but have the charge changed to a non-moving violation, which means that your insurance company will not get notified.

I'm an attorney in NY. ALWAYS plead NOT GUILTY. Even if they find you with a bloody knife standing over the body wearing the guys shoes. In NY plead, NG by mail (save the trip), on the trial date if there is no cop or prosecuting authority it MAY be dismissed. If there is someone there they will almost always reduce the ticket for you to somthing cheaper and less points. That is of course unless you ran over his puppy. PM me if you have questions.

I'm sorry guys, but I'm always amazed when I read these posts from folks who openly admit they were speeding, ran a stopsign, had an open container, had been drinking, or violated some section of the vehicle code....and come here asking the collective audience for how to beat the rap. I realize that I'm probably going to get a bunch of hate mail...but the fact remains that you are issued a license as a priviledge to drive...and are expected to obey the various laws that go along with being a responsible driver. When you speed, blow a stop, get ****-faced... or violate whatever section of the vehicle code....it pains me to see everyone jump in and offer suggestions on how to beat the law. If you play, you pay; simple as that. That is not to say that you can't use the constitutional rights afforded to you. To me, your best legitimate opportunity for beating the rap exists when the cop walks up to your car. At that point, he/she has a certain degree of discretion to issue the citation or not, and your demeanor and interaction with him/her is your best shot. That's your chance. After that, unless you have truly been singled out for an unfair reason, or you were subjected to a technological hiccup (equipment not calibrated right or improperly used) you have only one course of action; and that is to show up in court and hope that the Traffic God smiles upon you and the officer doesn't show up.....The rest of this is really just a collection of anecdotal examples of how to beat the system....a system you knowingly violated. Over time I have read all sorts of comments about the F*****G cops, what A$$holes they are etc. Yes, there are cops who are all of that...just as there are drivers who are overly aggressive, impolite, inconsiderate, profane, flat-out dangerous on the road....or, to use the vernacular of the day...drivers who are similarly A$$holes and *********. I know that there will be a litany of "yeah but how about when....." or "I was stopped for nothing but a ...." or "You should have seen what this ******** cop did..." I'm not talking about the instances of abuse of authority, or deliberate singling out of a driver for reasons other than a legitimate violation, or a violation of a driver's constitutional rights. The Constitution gives you certain rights that you can exercise...due process, right to remain silent, right to post bail, and right to an attorney, right to a speedy trial, right to be taken to a magistrate, and probably more that I can't think of. So...if you end up getting nailed, then those are your rights....and I guess if you want to go into court and fabricate a story or impune your integrity...that's your option...but it's not a constitutional right. You never lose your integrity, you deliberately throw it away. The defenses and constitutional guarantees are set up to protect the innocent...not accomodate the guilty. Most of what I've been reading on how to beat a rap is designed to accomodate the guilty. I think the easiest way to stay out of court, is not put yourself in a postion of having to defend yourself in the first place. Back to the age old adage....If you play, you pay. I sat here for quite a while wondering if I had the ***** to push the transmit key...almost deleted this post several times...but what the hell. I figure if some of you folks can give your opinions on how to beat a rap, I guess I have just as much "right" to give my take on all this.

Well said, I agree with you Chuck, I was gonna say something similar, but in just a few words.

Be careful before you go to court just to attempt to get your ticket reduced. In Oregon, if you go to court and do not have a valid explanation of why you should not be charged, there is a good chance the judge will actually INCREASE your fine. F'ing rediculous if you ask me!!!

While I agree with much of what you said, especially the part about the best way to stay out of court and when the cop walks up to the car, there is nothing wrong with the guy asking his "buddies?" for a little advice. No one is advocating lying to get out of a ticket. We all know that cops are "just doing their job." They get up in the morning and go to work like the rest of us. In fact they probably aren't posting here while at work! But, the fact remains you are NOT GUILTY until they PROVE you guilty. Notice, I didn't say you were INNOCENT just not guilty. Sometimes I find myself clockwise of the speed limit. If I get caught I ask for a warning. If I get a ticket, I ask again at court for some type of reduction. I have yet to have a "trial" on the facts. They always plea it down. Nothing wrong/immoral with that. No "hate mail" here just wanted to say my peace. Be well guys.

While I understand your point about the privilege of driving, some laws (or the method in which they are enforced) are ridiculous. Sure, doing 150 on public roads is unreasonable. But when cops are out there busting our b*lls for no reason, this is when I get annoyed. I know that cops in some areas don't have a lot of crime to fight, but I live in LA. There are murders and assaults happening constantly (the local news is really quite depressing). Traffic tickets are primarily for generating revenue (just like parking tickets). I once got sniped by one of those photo light contraptions at 3 AM. Do you think that this polaroid is making the intersection safer? It's just cheaper and more profitable to atomate the process. Why do we have required front license plates in California? To facilitate these photo ticket machines. It all comes down to money. The judicial system is flawed as well. You can spout all the patriotic, constitutional rhetoric you want, but everyone in the system is trying to take advantage of it. If you have the resources, then you might as well fight. Is it fair that if you're innocent on a traffic violation that you automatically lose if the cop shows up? Anyway, for $75, I'd just go to traffic school, get the violation off of my record and move on. A day wasted in court is worth more than $75 to me. But if you can't go to traffic school, then I'd go to court and try to get it off my record. Good luck!

Although I feel opposite, who wouldnt want a lesser charge or charges dropped all together in his or anyones position when the law comes down on you. Its human nature to want to feel less disciplined in these situations, but I do have to say one thing, that was one hell of a write-up Chuck!

Going to court to try to keep your insurance rates down is not "beating the law". It is your right to work within the law and gives you a chance to potentially use their rules and policies to your advantage. The original post did not disparage police officers or the court system and did not condone lying about what happened. If the cop shows up, you will pay your fine AND court costs, so there's no guilt for giving it a try. Until they are able to reduce bogus claims and lower insurance rates, I see nothing wrong with doing what it takes to keep your out of pocket ownership costs as low as is legally possible. Use the extra $$ for mods, tires, gas, beer, whatever... GO TO COURT OR DO AN ONLINE DRIVER'S ED PROGRAM IF IT IS AVAILABLE WHERE YOU LIVE (as long as it keeps the ticket off of your insurance)

Ever considered just going to court and telling all the facts,--you rolled through because of a temporary technical shortcoming in your car? As I recall the process, they will ask whether you plead guilty or not based upon "did you do what the officer says you did?" If the anser is , "yes, but..." they consider that guilty. Perhaps try a plea bargain thing where you go, guilty, but with circumstances...

i say show up in a dress and wig and tell them that they got the wrong person.......

Right, then they'll want to know why you're driving a car without brakes. ;-)

"i say show up in a dress and wig and tell them that they got the wrong person......." Best damn idea in the bunch....actually mistaken identity is a viable defense. By Jove, I think this would work......Great idea Smile.

You can tell the judge that you were in a hurry due to some REALLY bad diahrrea. I heard that has worked before.

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Driving through a stop sign without stopping ( oh, wait....I mean "rolling" through a stop sign), driving with a buzz after a party, talking on a cellphone, eating, reading, applying make-up while driving......I'm angry at people who put my life (and/or my car!) in danger. And maybe Chuck Jones and CosmosC4S are, too. I'm not going to address how to handle these situations vis-a-vis the court system. Of course, the guilty driver wants the lightest punishment (I've been in traffic court....I'm familiar with it). It's probably a better idea to remember that violations can hurt or kill other people. We can argue about which violations are more or less of a danger to others or ourselves, but there are many driving behaviors which are clearly reckless or careless that endanger other drivers. Is going through a stop sign without stopping one of those violations? You decide...many accidents occur when traffic signals (including stop signs) are ignored at intersections. There was a similar thread here a couple of months ago that stimulated a lot of discussion. The topic was DUI. If you read it; I think you'll find it interesting. Here's the link: https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...+alcohol+level I hope that what we take away from this thread is a good, healthy discussion that makes us think about, or re-think, our notions regarding the subject. In the spirit of that goodwill, be careful...and be safe. If you want to do things like speeding, do it responsibly. That's what I try to do.

Chuck, Thanks....I'm sure you aren't surprised....I agree 100%. flash80, when I was working at Lennox Station in South Central Los Angeles, I had lots of better things to do then bust people's ***** for no reason. There was never a lack of crime to fight. 99% of the time when I stop someone for a traffic violation, I give them a warning. Pretty much the only violation that I will write a ticket for is failure to stop for a stop sign or light (even then I will almost always give them a warning rather then a ticket unless they argue with me and tell me that I'm full of sh#t or I'm just harassing them because of whatever ethnicity they are). I will never forget trying to comfort a young lady who was attending El Camino Junior College as she was breathing her last breath. The man that hit her and launched her body over the top of his vehicle like a rag doll missed stopping for the stop sign by about 10 feet. Over the last 22 years, there have been several others, mostly children. When my wife got a speeding ticket a few months ago, she plead guilty. She had a problem going into court and pleading "not guilty" when she knew that she had been speeding. I was proud of her for being honest. She paid the fine and got traffic school...no points on her license. Sorry to rant. I had to jump on Chuck's bandwagon after I saw the comment about cops busting people's ***** for no reason. For what it's worth, one of the ways that we catch those murderers is by stopping cars for vehicle code violations.

Oh brother....

Not to condone reckless driving but I don't think rolling through a stop sign is the same as "blowing" one. Do you really come to such a complete stop at every stop sign that you could apply the parking brake? I doubt it. I can't remember the last time I saw a car at a complete stop at a stop sign. There is always a little roll...

Sorry, but at least where I live, the moral view doesn't completely cover traffic tickets. I will man up and take my punishment for any crime or misdemeanor I might commit. I'm a firm believer in taking responsibility for myself. The problem with a traffic ticket is that it doesn't end there. My insurance company would use the incident as an excuse to soak me for the next five years. I wouldn't fight a ticket just to get away with it. But I would fight a ticket to prevent a corporation from relieving me of an additional several thousand dollars in arbitrary 'fines'. In other words, the punishment doesn't end up fitting the crime. In law, there is a mechanism for making sure that doesn't happen. There is no such mechanism in the world of car insurance.

Well said - and I think that was the point of the original post - the guy was admitting guilt, called himself "stupid" and is willing to pay the ticket - avoiding the unfair reaction by insurance companies seems to be the goal. I hope this thread dies a peaceful death. I think that some past threads have included some inappropriate remarks about police officers, but it's apparent that 99 percent of the members here are happy to come to their defense (as we should). I respect everyone's views in here, but I chuckle when anyone who went out and bought a Porsche flames a guy for a traffic infraction. I'm sure that these critics have never exceeded the speed limit, or never enjoyed the rush you get accelerating hard through second gear until you reach the legally posted speed on a road (which is probably more likely to cause an accident by hitting someone backing out of a driveway). I say, "have fun, drive safely, watch out for kids, bikes, pedestrians, other cars, etc...and let's go back to debating the plenum to see if we can all add 25 HP to our cars!"

Here in NJ, the customary approach is to show up early for court, stand in line like everyone else and speak to the prosecutor about reducing the ticket (of course mentioning your "good boy" behavior). The cops here have no authority to reduce or squash tickets after they are written. That's the job of the municipal prosecutor. They quite often lower the violation to one that carries no points. They invented a new violation here called "unsafe driving" and they love to reduce tickets into its scope. It's no points but much more expensive than the original ticket so basically you buy your way out. The money is what they want anyway. Keep that in mind if pleading not guilty. Judges do not dismiss many without levying a fine.

Amen to the above. It is all a game in NJ about making money. Over the last three years I have been pulled over 3 times. 2 of the times it was completely bogus and because I stood my ground with the officer on the scene, they did not issue a ticket. And I say bogus because the only reason I got pulled over was because of the car I was driving - Audi S4 and Porsche 911. In both cases I was within the speed limit and there was no way the cop could determine my speed, but they just wanted to bag a fast car. In the third case I was technically over the limit, but along with everyone else doing the flow of traffic. I just happened to be driving a bright yellow S4 and the cop was training a rookie. That one went to court and as mention above got knocked down to the unsafe driving or whatever without any points. Just had to fork over $400. As for our speed limits in NJ, I will respect them more when they are truly enforced or really mean something for safety. I am regulary pushed out to the way by unmarked State Police cars cruising to work at 90mph. (How do I know that - I see the same guys a couple of times a week and even pass a couple of their house and have seen them leaving the house to drive to work. My route heads right to the SP offices.) And if you have a close relative on the force, you can basically walk away from most traffic violations. Drive the GSP or the TPK and you will see no one can safely drive the speed limit. You will be run over by just about everyone else. Now if they would just enforce the no passing on the right and not yielding the left lane to faster traffic, I would be much happier and probably much safer.

Why, after you make a mistake....just roll over and play dead for the occifer ( I mean officer)......traffic cops are the lowest of them all!!! USELESS!!! ( no I didn't wait one second before I pressed the transmit button!!) When did a traffic cop EVER save a life?? Cops are a necessary evil, but please mister police man....go and fight CRIME!! prevent school shootings....and prevent theft, rape, murder etc. Writing a speeding ticket...because I have a porsche and am following traffic....meaning everybody is driving 80MPH and so am I.....why do I get the ticket??? right....envy!!! And why do black people get pulled over more than white people?? And I can name a couple of other examples (but know that I am going to get a lot of hate mail for this reply already!!) I guess when people get older (Porsche drivers are not the youngest) they get more lawbiting (is this the right spelling). Anyway, I am trying to be a lover not a hater ....but just paid a speeding ticket ( I forgotten all about it until I read this post!!...THANKS!!!) and had to appear in court today...like that is going to happen..waist my day with a bunch of losers and cops and other idiots in a stinky courthouse!! Insurrance up?? who cares..points on your license??? it is expired anyways!! Have nice day and don't speed!!!

Nicolaas - I'm impressed. I find myself agreeing with you in most aspects and you held in your inner rage. Most speeding tickets are covert taxation. It's a pity that those that have to enforce it are the ones that take the brunt of the abuse that the lawmakers caused. That being said, I also agree 100% with Chuck and Bruce - it's one big scam - tickets for taxation, double punishment from the insurance company, but also the stance that if you play, then you have to be prepared to pay.

WRITTEN DECLARATION! I could type why but you could just go to www.ticketassassin.com (no affiliation, yadda yadda yadda) I just got a BS ticket for not yeilding to pedestrians at a crosswalk (there was a bum standing on the side of the street not moving or wanting to cross but thats another story) I'm not sure about other states, but here in CA, I am fighting it with it.

I used to live in Santa Monica and regularly drove up and down Wilshire Blvd to get the the freeway - this is one of the most frustrating laws that we have. The police are abusive in the coastal cities about ticketing for this infraction. That is a great example of a well intended law being enforced very poorly and outside of the spirit of its original goals.

wellardmac....I guess there is still hope for me... JC3D.....I normally do the ticketassasin.com thingy...but was to late...forgotten all about the ticket and had to show today!!...so I had to bite the bullit and pay...luckily it was only 150 bucks! I just hate to be singled out!! because everybody was really going the same speed and another car was even passing me!! we were in the carpool lane on the 605 south (this is a double car pool lane) and a traffic jam was caused because the cop had to stop traffic to get me all the way to the right lane (another 6 lanes over!!) endangering a lot of others.....go figure!!

Yup, now that's a dumb move. It's funny, I remember the days when the CHP used to stay away from the freeways during peak traffic time, as they knew that it would cause backups. I guess they don't care what kind of traffic snarls they cause nowadays - pity.

I was not implying that ALL police officers are out to bust ppl's *****. You certainly sound like you are a responsible, intelligent cop; but not all are. I had one cop follow me for 15 minutes on an empty street. He hallucinated that I swerved in my lane (I was watching him in my rear view mirror the whole time), pulled me over, made me sweat it out for 20-30 minutes and let me go. He had no probable cause;it was late and he was bored. I've seen plenty of people die after car accidents (almost all were alcohol related) and I understand your concern. It's the speed traps and tickets being handed out in the middle of rush hour that **** me off--I can't count the number of times traffic has slowed down on the freeway, I creep along expecting an accident, instead I see some guy getting written up. This slowdown has to be more dangerous than one guy moving a couple mph above the speed limit! Just like any other profession, there are ppl good at their job, others that are not so good. The bad police officers just have a bit more power to ruin other people's days.

Flash80, thanks for your kind response. You are right... we are entrusted with the power to seriously ruin people's days. It is up to us to make sure that we don't abuse that trust. I have always tried to treat people that I stop the way that I would want my mother or wife to be treated if they were stopped. Sometimes that isn't possible. When a driver gets belligerent during a traffic stop...I have to react accordingly. I don't know if they have had a bad day, or they just robbed a convenience store and are trying to escape. As a Deputy Sheriff (K-9 handler), traffic enforcement has never been my primary function. When I stop a car, I'm looking for criminals (felons), not trying to write tickets to hard working law abiding people. If I stop someone in a nice car for speeding, the encounter usually ends with both of us laughing and me recommending that they not see how fast their Ferrari, AC Cobra, etc. will hit 100 mph without looking for cop cars first. I would be a serious hypocrite if I wrote speeding tickets.

Wheeeeew.... Now that we all got that out of our systems, can we all just hop in our cars and get back to speeding?

I can't...mine is at the body shop.

Ever wonder why P-car owners are considered A-holes? It's for the same reason that cops are A-holes: One person has a bad experience with one, and then BAM, they are all A-holes. With regard to breaking the law & cops, it's really quite simple. Some cops are good people, some are A-holes. Just like P-car owners. I respect a cop until they prove to you that they are A-holes. Until then, I have to assume that when a cop pulls me over, they have a good reason to do so. Regarding tickets, I always go to court. It's part of the law, and I might as well take advantage of it.