996 Ownership costs

Thinking about buying a 996-C4 that has 82,000 miles and can be expected to need significant maintenance costs in the next year or so. What should I be prepared to pay for parts and labor using OEM parts at an independent shop: Front and rear brake rotors and pads Clutch replacement ( including flywheel, seal, et al) 90K mile inspection and service Thanks

1. $1100 2. Not sure 3. $500

forget about taking your car to the shop for everlittle thing, The 996 has super easy brake pad/rotor replacement, parts are still expensive tho, DIY $700, new clutch and rms $1500 or so at indy- same work to replace rms which is $20 part, 90K service is easy diy oil change and spark plug change and filters if you want and a bunch of inspections, maybe $300. This is low side DIY. P-car owners tend to live in fear of the maintenance costs but many of them are easy DIY and you get to learn about your car in the process.

I had these done in last six months at an independent shop: Brake pads, rotors including labor, no tax: $472.57 Clutch kit, replace clutch assembly, no tax $1079.80 Don't know if the 90k service is more involved than the 30k but had mine done at an authorized dealer all told was $494.63.

OEM Clutch and Flywheel $2400 w/tax that's with no labor and it was done at a P-dealer The flywheel is not cheap $1000 Plan on 8 hours of labor What you want done is not going to be cheap. Look for a P-car that has some of this stuff done, or make sure you get the car on the cheap

Rusnak Porsche Pasadena (Ca) charges about 1850 for the clutch. Roughly 650 for the part and 1200 labor. I just had it done as part of my new motor and only had to pay for the parts as the engine was already out.

Where on earth did you get that? That's really, REALLY cheap. Even if you got the absolute cheapest rotors available, the rotors alone are pushing you to $500. Add $100 for bottom-of-the-barrel, dirt-cheap pads and you are looking at $600, just in parts alone. That's so cheap, I'd seriously take a day to go through and get a good look at what exactly was put on your car.

Boy, somebody saw you coming..... A complete clutch replacement should cost no more than $800 which includes parts and 3-4 hours labor max. (book on clutch replacement is 4 hours, most techs can do it is 2.5 hours) The parts that need to be replaced (clutch plate, pressure plate, and throwout bearing are under $400) The only time a flywheel needs to be replaced on a 996 is when it has been subjected to repeated abuse from dumping the clutch. 98% of the time all a flywheel needs to have done to it is to have the surface cleaned. When Porsche designed the 996, they contracted to Toyota to maximize the serviceability of the car, and make it easy and cheap to repair and replace things like the powertrain. Did you know that the entire powertrain can be R&R in under 3 hours?

A pair of OEM (Zimmerman) front rotors are $250, and OEM (Pagid) pads are $125. Take a hour for labor, and that is a reasonable amount to pay. I do doubt that price is for all four wheels, nor was it probably necessary. Under normal day to day driving, rear rotors should last for 100K miles.

If it takes 4 hours to do a clutch, why does it take 8 hours to do the RMS?

You're probably right. Since the OP specified front & rear, I assumed that's what he meant.

It doesn't. It only takes 3.5 hours to do an RMS.

What's your source on that fascinating little bit of info?

though it doesn't explicitly mention servicability, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche - "In 1990, Porsche drew up a memorandum of understanding with Toyota to learn and benefit from Japanese production methods. Currently Toyota is assisting Porsche with Hybrid technology, rumored to be making its way into a Hybrid Cayenne SUV." When the 996 came out, the Toyota/Porsche relationship seemed to be mentioned in every other article about the car.

I also believe that there is some additional information in Paul Fr�re's 911 book that mentions this relationship.

So when I call my local Porsche dealer, they should be charging $435, plus $20 for the RMS part = $457 total? I don't think so.

No, they should be charging you for 4 hours at probably $150-$185 and about $100 for parts. The RMS operation also includes update of the case bolts, and the IMS bolts, seal and cover. Throw in consumables and that is about $100.

So why is it always $1,100? Call any Porsche dealer and ask about RMS replacement. None of them told me anything under $1,000. $150 per hour x 4 = $600, plus $100 for parts = $700.

I've always heard $700 - $800 for RMS and a few hundred more for the clutch...

When taking peoples pricing for work done, keep in mind prices very wildly based on the area of the courntry you are in. California tends to have some of the highest labor rates. I would look for a car with fewer miles.

Because the RMS and clutch jobs are really bread and butter income for service departments. They are hoping that their customers don't know any better and will roll over and pay. If you don't know what you are asking the service department to do ("replace the RMS", what does that really mean?) and don't negotiate, then you pay more than you have to. Happens all the time. Ignorance and fear are 2 of a service departments biggest sales tools and revenue generators! That is what is great about these forums, they teach the huddled masses about the stuff the "man" does not want you to know!

Interesting. I have an extended warranty, so the point is kinda moot, but I never knew you could negotiate a repair cost with the man!

Everything in life is negotiable. But remember, "da Man" is out to get as much money out of you as he can, and plays the game all day long, so he is a worthy adversary!

I find da man also has the attitude that if you don't want to use them for the repair, they couldn't care less! Doesn't help with negotiations!

AndyK, which "da man" you talked about? i think in NJ, p-car dealer rate is 100/hour, 90/hour for PCA member? where is the $150/hour came from? it's NJ, not California.

manhattan motorcars is >150... i think pepe is a 130 handle.

My Indy charges over $100. Dealers charge $125-$145, I believe. I do have to mention my PCA membership though--always forget when I am buying parts. Never went to a dealer for service, since they have never heard of a 944s2!

wow, andy, time to shop around. at least, i didn't pay more than $100/hr for either indy/dealer last year. they may increase the price this year, but i don't know yet.

my local dealer is $109 before 10% PCA discount

Pfft... Nissan just charged me $250 to replace the high-beam headlight on my 350Z that I'm selling. I doubt it can be THAT much worse with the new 996.

Wow! I would have sold it as-is!

My independent is $115 and dealer is $130

"Serviceability of the car" First, what you are talking about is called LEAN and it was developed by Toyota to focus on reduction of the Toyota 'seven wastes' in order to improve overall customer value. It's use in the Manufacturing Process and not for techs replacing a powertrain. Second, Porsche�s lean initiative was started in 1991 and in a 5 year period, Porsche doubled its productivity in operations while cutting defects in supplier parts by 90 percent and cut first-time-through errors in-house by more than 55 percent. By 1997, it had launched two highly manufacturable products after only three years of development work, cut the needed manufacturing space in half, shortened lead times from raw materials to finished vehicle from six weeks to three days, and cut parts inventories by 90 percent As far as the Clutch and Fly replacement goes I did not pay for labor. The P-dealer ate the cost on that when they had to replace the RMS. On the paper work that I received it stated 8 hours. I�m sure it did not take that long, but I�d bet the tech that did the job wants to get paid the correct book rate. My guess is you could R&R the powertrain in 3 hours, but what tech is only going to charge 3 hours. I don't think so Look at what this guy�s labor is going to be The Flywheel had to be replace. I even took a look at it and was in bad shape. I paid full retail price on both the clutch and flywheel. I didn�t have a leg to stand on to haggle on the price for the OEM parts with my dealer and I want my car back instead of calling around to save 2-3 hundred dollars, but then again I didn�t have to pay for labor not even 1 hour. So honestly I don't think anyone saw me coming as you put it They were only to happy to see me leave

Thank you all for the information. I think I have worked a fair deal on buying the car, and the price is far enough under the low blue book that I feal comfortable buying now, realizing that the car will need major maintenance sometime in the future. All I can do is hope it is later than sooner. Since I am buying from a private party, no warranty is expressed or implied. He is the second owner and Stuttgart verified maintenance has been consistently done per factory schedule. The PPI did not raise undue concerns and those issues that need attention (tires, alignment) will be corrected. Are there meaningful "warranties" available for me to purchase? I would appreciate information on how to get and how much one might cost.