Getting new engine. '03 996 C2 w/22K miles

So this sound turned out to be serious. Dealer claims they found metal shavings in the oil. New engine is on order. Thank god for the warranty. A little background: i got the car 6 months ago with 16K miles on it. When i bought it the car had RMS fixed. I put on about 6,000 miles on the car since. I never abuse it, no aftermarket engine mods, always warmup for a few minutes before i drive it, keep an eye on the oil level. So.. should i be concerned? Not sure what exactly went wrong with existing engine, will try to get more details from the dealer.

jkb - really sorry to hear about the issue - glad you had warranty cover. Of course these engines apparently fail so rarely that it's statistically not happened at all..... If you get any more details on what caused the alleged failure - I'm sure everyone would love to know the cause. You think the dealership will be forthcoming - or is it impossible to tell without a strip-down?

Touche' In all seriousness though, not knowing the treatment of it for the first 16K miles is something that cannot be overlooked. I could have already been on it's way out before you starting those 6K miles you put on it.

heh.. yeah, i think the previous owner was an idiot. at least i get to break in the new engine properly. so... where do i read up on porsche engine break-in tips?

Which dealer is this?

That is awesome for you! Brand new and ready to start a long relationship. As for break-in, follow what the manual says.

There is a known problem with the early 03's. Porsche didn't torque down the chain tensioners properly and they occassionally fail. There are a lot of early 03's they replaced the engines in. 2 of the cars I looked at when I was shopping were early 03's with new engines because of this. They seam to fail in the 15-20k range. I wouldn't be very concerned since they are doing the replacement.

carlsen... while stevens creek is closer, i trust my service adviser there since he seem to have a clue plus that is where i got the car (stevens creek blew me off during my shopping experience)

just got an update from my service adviser: "Hey there, The engine is here! The clutch has plenty of life remaining, looks good. We won't ever know what exactly took place, we have confirmed there are metal shavings in the engine, that is good enough for Porsche to replace it. They won't pay tear down and diagnosis time to see exactly what failed. The break in is like when the car was new, keep out of the higher rpm for the first 1000/2000 miles. I wouldn't bother changing the oil till next year."

Pretty much what I was told about my 04 engine that failed at 5k miles. Though my SA told me these engines have already been tested and go ahead and drive it, and not worry about break it other than do not go over 4k rpm until 180 degrees. I figured I would break it in properly anyway even though I broke in the last one properly and it didn't matter since it failed at 5k miles. Anway, enjoy the new engine! It is good they cover these and it is not out of pocket.

I also had bad experiences at Stevens Creek when I was still living in Cupertino CA. Took the car there just once to find out that they are crooks. I am glad I don't have to go back there ever again. With a new engine, your car is now upgraded to "brand-new" status Enjoy...

You are quite right ... Stevens Creek guys are crooks. Sell you expensive parts (often double the MSRP), over charge for labor and make stupid excuses like "parts will have to be special ordered from Germany". Too bad I'm stuck with them for my RMS / IMS leaks, cam cover leaks, etc. For anything else I always use Carlsen (very honest & reasonable) or an Indy.

When i was shopping for my 996, Stevens Creek didnt even seem to want to come out and help me at all... like they didnt believe i could buy one. Carlsen have been great with test drives and the cab window fix (Stevens Creek said this was not possible and wanted to charge me $2500 or so !)

Are they getting you a new engine, or a remanufactured engine?

reman you will not a get a new engine, with that said how many people have had more then one engine replaced on the same car ? probaly less people have had reman engines fail then their original

i think its new, let me double check.

i can assure you its not new it is a rebuilt engine but every thing inside is new heads cams chains valves pistons bearings rings seals evrything new except the case and the crank

What is the difference between a new engine and a remanufactured engine? How & why does PCNA stock remanufactured engines? From my understanding, you get a new engine in a new car, and the only time you need another engine is when your current engine goes kaput. There exists no other reason to buy, sell or trade engines, except a very very small % of people who swap engines for power, etc. So, in fact, are you getting a blown engine from some other car that has been refinished to work again?

the engine serial number, while a new engine will not have the x. Sincerely, Macster.

my service adviser claims its a new engine, not remanufactured one. i trust him. but i have also asked him for an engine serial number. i will absolutely NOT accept a remanufactured engine. you dont get used part when something else is replaced under warranty. why should engine be any different???

Dude, it's not used, it's reman. Just get PHOTO verification of the number and go from there. But you are not getting a new crate motor, trust Brad on this one.

remanufactured engine. Warranty/repair fine print probably allows dealer/factory to repair with new or "remanufactured" parts, as long as they carry the same guarantee as new, which they do: 2 years, unlimited miles (so I've heard). (Safety equipment -- airbags, seat belt pretensioners, etc. -- may be required to be replaced with new.) I have no experience with Carrera remanufactured engines, but those that have received remanufactured for their Boxster report almost unamiously good things. Sure, there have been one or two that have had the remanufactured engine go belly up, but replaced again under warranty. For the overwhelming majority, they report their remanufactured engine has been as good as or even better than the original engine, even before the original engine started its decline. However, you're certainly entitled to object, if the engine proves to be remanufactured (if it can be determined without question is is remanufactured), and request a new engine. I will point out that with a new engine you are 0 for 1, so another new engine may mimic the first new engine's failure. Best of luck to you regardless if you decide to live with the remanufactured engine, or if you successfully get a new engine. Sincerely, Macster.

This seems to be happening more and more to the motors which were supposed to be "new and improved" as time goes on. Some used to claim that the 02 and on were "safe" due the being excluded from the problems of the 99-01 3.4 litre. Seems that as time and miles catch up to these cars, more are having trouble. At least your 03 is still under warranty, but I am sure there are many 03's out there that are already out of warranty. This makes me sad. I really was hoping the problem that myself and others had with the 99-01's was going to go away.

your gettins a new reman motor. YOU WILL NEVER EVER EVER get a new engine from porsche. I Can assure you if people with brand new less then 3 month old cars and cars with under 2000 miles have gotten reman motors even after fighting for months for a new one your 03 with 20k is gonna get a reman. YOu dont have a choice in the matter. you can fight all you want but all that does is eat up time you coudl be drivign and enjoying the car, porsceh is under no obligation to give you a "new" motor. AND they wont Its also kind of hard for them to keep an unlimted supply of 2003 motors laying around dont ya think. The x is only in the part number its not in the serial number it will not affect resale in a negative way You motor will be all new pistons rods vales springs cams rings bearings chains seals pumps harness sensors everything but the crank and the case which will both be reconditiond, you will get all the updated latest and greatest parts which makes it way better then getting an new 2003 motor with the same weaknesses thats been sitting in a warehouse for 4 years . Dont fight it just smiel and be glad it happened under warrenty

My 2003 just went out of warranty last month with 14,000 miles on it.

http://www.renntech.org/forums/index...c=4337&hl=Jean Brad is right with 1 exception. We have a local 2000 Boxster owner out of warranty that did get a new engine, but only because Porsche did not have the correct remanufactured engine in the US, and it was a unique case. Somewhere I have a picture of the box it came in and there was no X in the part number. Plus I know the mechanic that put it in, and had to be rewired because it was a tip engine going into a manual transmission Boxster.

out of warrenty i have installed new motors, if you hit somerthing in the road and break the block the core is no good so a reman motor is more expesnive including the core charge 3000$ then a new motor

from my service adviser: Hey there, Its done! The engine # is M96/AT66566662 i guess it is a new engine after all and not reman

Better to visusually inspect it to verify. But as Brad and others have pointed out, chances are slim to none that this is a "new" engine. They don't just have "new" 03 motors sitting around. My guess is that your SA left off the X since it is NOT a numerical value.

man..... a brand new car for pre-o0wned price...... how do you beat that...... ?

Is that the engine part number or serial number? A poster above stated that the x would be in the part number, not the engine serial number. I don't know what you got, but I do know that M3 owners that had to have engine replaced in early years of e46 M3 production because of connecting rod bearing failure, received remanufactured engines. I think that is the usual policy.

considering the engine is already inside the car, what do i look for when visually inspecting it? btw, thanks everybody for your kind words of wisdom and advise. even if it is reman, i probably wont complain much, but i am now on a quest for truth for my own state of mind

Look on your service paperwork. It should show the engine as a part number with "3.6L - 04 Carrera" or something similar next to it in the "Description" column.

there is no X in the serial number, the number stays the same no matter how many times they rebuild it. The x is in the part number good luck with the reman motor

I have been told this as well. The engine serial number does not change and there are no special markings if it is a rebuilt engine. But, I bet Porsche knows. At one time we thought Porsche was putting a spot of paint on the rebuilts, but I have seen paint on new engines.

So, it is possible for an engine serial number on an engine that was delivered in a new car to be placed in another car as a remanufactured engine, as the cases (w/crank) are reused, and the serial number is on the case......

Ahhhhh that explains why my replacement engine on my '97 986 had the same serial number as the original! I was surprised, assumed they'd made a typo on the service record. But sounds like that's business as usual.

that would be a typo it would take weeks to have the same motor sent back and rebuilt

According to StephenB, you have a remanufactured engine, but that's NOT a bad thing it's actually a better thing than the one you had before:

Why would you be stuck with a bad dealer?

I don't know what the fuss is about...new or remanufactured, X or no X....the new motor would be under its own warranty...so drive it and enjoy. If it dies within the new warranty period, you get another one. I wish I still had existing warranty coverage...but worrying about it is a waste of time and energy that's better spent enjoying the car. I've just decided that if the engine goes, I'll fix it on my own dime.

Its a reman...and you should hope it is...a reman is usually better than a brand ew one....it has all the internal updates and is THOROUGHLY gone through and testd...much more vigorously than a new engine. Rumor has it, they sare usually a bit stronger....enjoy!

A fresh motor is a fresh motor and when covered with the same warranty? It's a no brainer.

Agreed - who cares if it is reman or new...

it is reman and i love it. however, it is not covered by a separate warranty. it is covered by the "car" warranty which runs out in a few months.

I wouldn't worry about a reman engine either. In fact, so long as it was installed by Porsche or some skilled indy, I would almost look at it as a bonus.

Wouldn't a fresh motor have its own warranty? If your base paper runs out soon I would think that the motor would continue forward from that. This is a decent question for those of us with the extended paper. What if the motor goes south and needs replacing-the extended paper should cover the replacement but wouldn't the motor have its own coverage? Does the ext. warr. need to be re-written to acknowledge the newer motor?

I am pretty sure the reman engine will have a separate 2 year parts warranty from the date of invoice. I had a reman engine installed last year in November. My car is '02 and the factory has expired. I just had a solenoid on the engine replaced free of charge, since it was covered under the 2 year parts warranty on the engie. I had aftermarket extended warranty which would cover the work as well, but the dealer placed the work under the porsche parts warranty.

Based on my readings on RL, I think it's really up to the dealer as goodwill and not per Porsche policy. The engine warranty whether original or ATXXXX terminates with the car warranty.

I just got a new motor in my 03 996 500 miles ago and the warranty is only as long as 1. the remainder of the original warranty or 2. the remainder of the extended warranty. It does not carry its "own" warranty. By the way. This replacement motor is absolutely perfect and is stronger than the original. It sings like a sewing machine. I feel like winning a $13,000 lottery at 22km.

Good for you

I just bought a replacement motor for my 00 C2. Since I paid cash, it cane with a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty. Stefan

I had an engine replacement on my BMW before and it had its own 6yr/100miles warranty. The car was out of warranty at the time, but the new engine was covered for the 6/100 term. Personally, I think that 2 years warranty on a new engine is just lame. Especially when it was their manufacturing fault to begin with!

I don't know about the rest of you but I am approaching 90,000 miles on my '99 C2 and about to come off of warranty in July. I actually kind of hope my engine dies in the next two months so I can get a new one and have two more years of warranty. Only problem is the damn original engine just keeps chugging along nicely. Reading through the forum it just seems that most engine failures occur at the lower miles. Maybe we should have a poll to find out the highest mileage where an engine goes.

Stephan, If you don't mind me asking, how much did the rem. engine run you & how much for the install? Thanks, Chris

Stefan, Sorry, I meant to spell your name correctly!

An engine replaced under warranty does NOT have a 2 year warranty...the warranty on the ENTIRE car expires at the same time....if its bought outright, then the engine (as with any Porsche parts) come with a 2 year warranty. Again...ENJOY it....

Ar yes. That is correct. My engine was replaced under the 3rd party warranty after the original factory warranty had expired. That's why I still have the 2 year parts warranty.

ah...you got the best of both worlds....didnt pay for the engine AND get a 2 year warranty on it....congrats.

newport, where'd you get all your sweet info and how would one find out all the details of the origin of their factory pumped up engines?

If you make it to 90Km the motor will probably go on like the energizer bunny. For the 03 years there was an inermediate shaft problem that shows up around 22Km which is what happened on this post and with my motor. Almost exactly 22,000 miles the motor sounded like ball bearings shaking in a coffee can.

Unfortunately mileage is no guarantee. Example - http://glenn986s.zoomshare.com/0.html 92,000 miles, same old cracked cylinder head issue from the early M96 block, bank 1-3 fails due to stress fracture/quality control issues. It's a lottery on pre-01 engines

For all you knowlegable guys: What usually goes wrong with these engines that makes them fail? Do the internal parts fail or it is something worse. Have the actual blocks on these engines cracked before? What makes the engines in the TT or GT3 so bullet proof? Manny.

Well its not like they are a weak engine.....what makes them fail is on early ones, the oil channels and coolant channels run next to each othern insode the engine block, the coolant over time would corrode the walls and then inside the block, oil and coolant would mix together....thats one failure. I think that one was resolved.....

Manny, check the two magazine articles linked to from this page: http://www.autofarm.co.uk/engines/water_cooled/press It's poor design and quality control on pre 01 M96 engines I'm afraid

Thanks, will read.

Thanks, cdodkin, that was a great read. Of course, now I want to get my engine big bored to 4.0 liters...

cdodkin: Great articles. Provided a good insight to the M96 engine and what can happen. For guys wanting to beef-up their engines with more HP, Autofarm provides a good alternative and at the same time strenghtens the block dramatically.

I guess that I'm joining the fray. I just picked up my car from the shop today after a 6-week "inpatient stay" to replace the engine following a coolant/oil contamination situation (I was impatient to say the least). The engine had 68k miles when it failed. After reading all your comments, I now have to figure out if I will benefit from a 2-year engine warranty or not. The engine was replaced under my extended warranty (3rd party). From a previous post on this thread, I'm taking that a break-in period is needed (~1000-2000 miles), right?

I paid just shy of $12,000 for "new remanufactured� engine including removal of radiators and coolant lines for flushing due to the oil/coolant intermix issue that has effected 5.667% of my99 996 car produced on Mondays. That includes a 10% discount for being a PCA member.

Check out the following thread for some interesting points of view. I particularly thought the link on #21was compelling. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/324510-engine-break-in.html

Thanks Rleeq!