Tequipment Rollbar

Can you still use the rear seats and/or windscreen with the rollbar installed on a cab?

Rear seats are definitely out of the question. You'll need to either fold or remove them. Even if you could use the rear seats, would you want somebody to be sitting with a solid bar right in front of them?

Speaking from recent experience........ Bar is a PERMANENT install. This is not something you can take in and out. As for the rear seats, I just removed the seat bottoms and the belts. The windscreen is no more. I am trying to fabricate something to attach to the bar to replace the windscreen function.

Permanent in the sense that it is a PITA to install and remove? Not permanent in the welding sense right? You are not going to take it out for the winter? As for rear seat passengers, I was just thinking short trips or emergencies. You know, like what if you picked up three hot chicks who were hitchiking.

Correct, as in PITA, not welding. When I went back to my indy to remove the bar to install the BK hooks for the harnesses they just about passed out form the thought of trying to un/install the bar again. Interesting to note is that the coupe Teq Rollbar is actually EASIER to install than the CAB version. So, I decided to keep it in the car permanently. Besdies it is VERY easy to destroy the threads in the bolt holes from un/install. It isn't coming out for the winter either. It will probably be in there until we get the GT3 and then we will share that car at the track and the CAB will go back to city cruiser duties only. As for rear passengers, there is NO way they could get in with the bar in nor would you EVER want to face the liability if they were injured by the bar.

Got it, though I would think the coupe version would be tougher given you have to wrestle it in the back versus just dropping it in in the cab. BTW did it come with install instructions? If so could you post them? Thanks.

You have to take the seats out of both the CAB and Coupe to get the bar in but for some reason the geometry involved is slightly different in the CAB and makes it a PITA! No install instructions but VERY straight forward. Trust me on this one. GET A PROFESSIONAL SHOP TO DO THE INSTALL and one that has experience installing the bar.....my shop has installed many of them and hated mine the most (CAB v. Coupe)! I tried like hell and couldn't get a single bolt in after the easy first one. I then sweated, cried, and cursed like hell after 2 hours and 3 stripped tunnels later.

That's not very encouraging. What did you do with the stripped tunnels? How long did it take the pros to install?

My indy was able to repair the stripped tunnels by sending chasers down the tunnels and in effect re-threading each one. It took them 3 hours and several pounds of muscle.

3 hours to repair and install right? How long do you think for just the install?

2hrs, 45 min.

Dell, Which shop did you use? Was it a turnkey job or did you buy the roll bar separately?

Bought the bar through the dealer and had my local indy do the install ( http://www.europeanperformance.net/main.html )

Good advice given. I have watched pros install 3 TQ bars in coupes. Part of the secret is the use of tools to either spread the legs or, pull them in to allow it to align with the bolt holes. Else you mess up the threads as described above. Once the bar goes in the rear seats are condemned. Best,

OIC. I thought you had it done in Vegas and I was thinking it may be worth the drive (and a good excuse to go to Vegas). Wouldn't necessarily want to make the trek to NC for it.

Nope, had it done in Raleigh. If I did have it done in Vegas I would have taken it to either Carl's Place (best indy I have ever done business with) or Premier Sportscar Service (Peterson White Lightning Racing) which is a serious race shop and authorized PCNA warranty and service facility. Kent Moore (and his guys) is awesome and would routinely frequent the track on DE weekends and help out in the paddock. ( http://www.premiersportscarservice.com/about.html )

in a coupe, the install isn't too bad. you do need to remove both seats for better access. It took 2 of us a little over an hour but we were taking our time. Some of the bolts have tight access, but with patience, it isn't too bad. Steve

If it wasn't for the potential damage to the bolt holes, a re-install could be done in less than 2 hours, but the chance of dinging the a thread is high. Just ask me how I know.... For the track the DAS is better and PCA legal for club racing.

Which version of the rollbar are you referring to? There are 2: 4-point and triangulated with cross-bars. There is no way you could use the rear seats if you have the version with the cross bar. I suspect the regular 4-point version was specifically for those looking to use the rear seats. I don't believe you will be be able to fold down the rear seats with it installed. It mount to the rear passenger out seat belt mount. The rear bars should block the rear seat from being folded down.

I've got the tequipment rolbar with crossbrace for my '04 turbo cab and I can uninstall it in about 10 minutes and reinstall in about 20-30min. The trick I do is use a ratcheting tie-down strap to pull both the side bars which mount to the lower seat brackets together...making the bar slide in and out easy (of course I have no roof, so I just lift it up...no need to remove seats). I did swap out the standard bolts used for the lower mount to different ones which are threaded all the way down...I found it easier to catch the hole then. Haven't stripped the holes yet...but I can see it being a PITA if you do. Of course now I'm so lazy, I just leave it in all the time (track and street)

If anyone wants a Tequipment bar without the cross brace I have one sitting in the garage. $450 plus shipping from 45243 Cincinnati.

So Ryan........10 mintues out I can kinda believe but there is absoilutely NO FRICKIN WAY you can get that bar installed in 20-30 minutes especially with the seats still in the car. Nice try.

Easy there Dell...I'm running stock seats, so all I have to do is tilt them forward and slide them all the way up. Gives me complete access to the seatbelt bolts with no hinderance. Thing that talkes the longest is trying to align the damn bolts . Remember its a cab... just strap the bars, place it in the car and screw 4 bolts. I can see (and heard from friends) the the coupe install takes a long time, but I have no experience with that.

I'd have to see it to believe it then Ryan. I thought the very same thing since mine is a CAB as well but there is NO WAY you can install that sucker in 20-30 minutes. If you can then I know of a Porsche indy here in Raleigh that has installed MANY of these would love to hire you. Matter of fact they told me that the CAB bar is harder to install than than the coupe one. I would have thought the opposite but that just ins't the case.

Dell... Not out to prove anything, but that's what it takes me. First time I did it, it took over an hour. Then when I removed it, I realized I needed the tiedown strap to get it out. Saw how that made it easy to maneuver the bar, so used it for the next install. Also hated the bolts it came with...they had about 1/2 inch of unthreaded material at the top (assumed this was to help "align" things). I found it to be a pain in the ***. So I swapped to regular hardened bolts without the 1/2 "starter". It takes a bit to align them, but less chance of stripping the holes...because either you have caught the threads...or your way off. Maybe I got lucky and my bar aligns well with my car....but all I'm doing is taking out 2 old seatbelt bolts, strapping the bar, dropping in the bar to the backseat, screw in 4 bolts, then remove the strap. I can't see how it would take much longer? Where are you spending most you time installing it? Try swapping to different bolts and use a strap. Hopefully that will cut down your time. Of course I've given up on removing it. After 3 or so times, I just left it in. Not like anyone uses the back seat As for working as a rollbar installer...nah...I dont even like doing my own anymore.

Mine is staying for good. I'm not messing with it anymore

Ryan, you are giving me hope. That's exactly what I was expecting install-wise, not the 3 hour ordeal described by dell, though he is typically spot on with his expertise. Where in VA are you? Perhaps you can walk me through or preferably let me watch your install process? Thanks. James

James, seeing the install first hand would be the best. I thought it would be a 30 minute install since I have a CAB but I was sorely mistaken. Trust me, I wish it was a 30 minute install so I could un/install before/after track weekends. Maybe the key is different bolts and a ratchet. I just don't feel comfortable ratcheting the bar and possibly affecting the structural integrity of that bar (metal does fatigue).

You're right. I hope Ryan is close so I can take a look. On the other hand, I have been considering life with a dedicated two-seater. It's not like people inhabit the back seats of my car often anyway. Although no windscreen would suck for longer trips. Have you come up with a solution for that yet?

No solution yet but I am working on fabricating an attachable mesh to fill the open areas of the rollbar that would be were the wind deflector was. Low on my priority list right now but hopefully I can find a solution soon before my wife gets tired of waiting for the solution. Damn I wish somebody made a product like I am talking about so I could just open the checkbook!

James- I'm in Mclean, so not that far. If you want, come on over sometime and I can show you how the install goes. Also, if you interested, and don't already have one, I'm going to put my Cab Tequipment bar with cross brace up for sale soon...because getting rid of the turbo (my GT3 arrives in a few weeks) Maybe we'll even break out a stopwatch for Dell Hey Dell...you run with the top down at the track(with arm restraints)?

Ryan, that's perfect. I was going to wait for the next DE season to get a rollbar, but this works for me. When's a good time for you? I go to McLean pretty much every weekend so just let me know. Shoot me a pm and let's figure it out. Congrats on the GT3. You must be chomping at the bit.

Good one Nope. And matter of fact, up until recently I ran with the hardtop on as well for added safety. But after thinking about it, the hardtop adds 74 pounds in the absolute worst place possible (top of the roof) so I ditched that and go with the ragtop instead. I can't ever imagine running with the top down. At least with the top up I feel as if I am in a coupe and "feel" much safer.

Ryan, my family is in McLean and I used to be in Falls Church. Absolutely love it there and was going to move back after our 4 yr assignment to Vegas but the traffic was just to much to bear so the wife and I chose the Raleigh area. The Raleigh suburbs reminds us of the beltway but without the traffic. Plus we are a very close 4 hours by car form there so we go back often to visit family and friends.

My first DE was with the Ferrari of Washington and the required all cabs to be run with the top down. I don't think anyone had arm restraints. It was pretty thrilling and you are ceratinly very aware of your surroundings. At my next event (PCA), it was top up only and I felt like I was in a cocoon. Not sure how much that canvas would help if the unthinkable happened. If anything, I would think the pieces in the top mechanism could break and do more harm than good.

req'd to run with the tops down??? confused on that one. But then again, I have never understood the F-Car guys at the track. Hell, they stopped letting us run with them at their events since they didn't like that we have more than a couple cars per run group and could throw debris. Bsaically, they were Sunday drivers on a close course. Wussies.

Yeah, I was surprised too. But a lot of the guys were driving their cars pretty hard. I went for a couple of laps in thie one guy's gallardo se and he was driving the **** out of it. That car is amazing. There were also a couple of 996 cup cars in the black/red group that were stinking fast. The fastest car was the FoW race 430 which was pretty sweet. They would run that thing at random times and once it was on the track at the same time as me. Picture a green as green can be noob giving the point by to this beast that came out of nowhere.

PCA Potomac makes you run top up unless you have arm restraints. Didn't know the rule about arm restraints until last event when I saw someone riding in their cab with top down. The "feel of speed" at 140-150mph down the straights must be quite a difference with it down.

Yep -Traffic here sux...only place to really open the car up is at the track! The double hydro clutch on the turbo made it a little easier on the leg (but clutch has no feel to it)...but going to get a good leg workout with the GT3

Good workout to have Ryan

Dell - We just got James rolllbar installed! A couple things we found out. It takes longer to put a bar in the first time, then subsequent times. The side carpet and liner end up getting compress once the rollbar is installed (see pic below). So once this is compressed by the bar (after it sitting in the car for a couple weeks probably), to put the bar back in, it lines up perfectly and the front bolts just slide in. We tested this on my car and to put the bar back in and it literally took only a few minutes. However, Installing it in James car was a bit different. It took over an hour We struggled getting the front bolts to align (and after reading your experience, we were extremely carfeul not to strip the holes...) We did figure out a tip, which if people do when they install the bar for the first time, it shouldn't take more than 1/2 hour. Huge time saving tip: We noticed that when installing the bar, the front bolts actually needed to to go in at an angle vs straight in. Angle meaning (from left to right), the tip of the bolt actually needed to be angled more towards the front of the car. To accomplish this, without the rollbar in, we put the long bolts into the front holes and screwed them in pretty good. We then took a hammer and hit the side of the bolt until, instead of going in perpendicular to side of the car, the bolt went in at an ever so slight angle. (Hit the bolt tip towards the front of the car). After we did this, we dropped the bar in, and the bolts almost immediately caught. We spent over 40 minutes trying to get the bolts in before we did this and got nowhere. Afterwards it took maybe 5 minutes per side Anyhow his car looks sweet with it in

Awesome to hear! Did you use a stopwatch? All kidding aside. That is really good to hear and gives me hope that maybe I can remove and re-insert. Just not ready to take that plunge yet but will think about it. Great write-up

One better...we hired a certified offical timer

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Damn Ryan, beat me to it. Thanks again for your help. Great write-up. Better than I could have done. It certainly seems like a 30-minute job on subsequent installs, especially with two people. Taking it out is literally a 10-minute job, as even a novice such as myself could do it alone in 10 minutes (I have guests visiting from out of the country and had to shoehorn four people into my car). Also, the compression that Ryan mentioned will occur within 24 hours. Incidentally, although I had bought a ratcheting strap, I forgot to put it on when I was taking the bar out, but it was not a problem getting it out. I'll see if it is still necessary when I install it for my next track day in a few weeks. Dell, I don't know how your shop gets away with charging you for three hours, but Ryan and I will only charge you for two next time you're in McLean!

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I installed it in my 996 3 years ago and it took me 3 hours. Now I swapped my 996 for a GT3 and installed it in that car again. This time it took me only around an hour. It can be easily done, but there are some things to watch and it does not hurt to read the instructions first. I posted a lengthy report a while ago in another forum, if somebody's interested I could repeat it here.... Greetings from Stuttgart Wolfgang

Please do, we didn't have any instructions, just Ryan's knowhow.

Please do Wolfgang. Much appreciated.

The DasSport is around an hour also. The trick with it is the following: Take the seats out. Put the rear brace in but don't tighten Undo the lower seat belt and tie away Put the race seats in the car, don't bolt em, push em into the foot wells, you'll need room behind the seats. Make sure the rails on the seats are lined up or you'll never bolt em in, ask me how I know... Run the belts through the seats and Bolt the Cups to the lower seat belt anchor and attach the stock belt again with eye bolts. Don't tighten Put the hoop in the car. Put the hoop on the back brace. Bolt one hoop leg to a cup Bolt the other hoop leg to the other cup. Push the hoop home. Bolt the seats in. Attach seat belt warning wires to seat belt receptables. Tighten everything up.

Hey Ryan, Nice to read about ya doing the roll bar thing. I've gotten better at putting the bar in and out also, although I still find it a pain. I'll try your tip next time. But I don't like to leave it in when not on the track, because of concerns about safety issues. Some of it is reduced visibility with the top up, but the biggest part is the chance of cracking your head open on it if you are in an accident and not wearing a helmet. Any thoughts on that? I did have one thought: wear a helmet on the street -- it seems to fit with the way traffic is around here! =Carlos= P.S. Missed you down at VIR a couple of months ago -- it was a good time! Give me a shout when your GT3 comes in, I'd like to come over and see it.

The factory procedure to install the Tequipment bar uses the following steps: - Remove back seats - Remove plastic parts of seat belt (top) - remove cloth hanger - remove top anchor point of seat belt - remove B-Pillar panel - unscrew side panel (the one with the speaker) - remove side panel to access the floor carpet - unhook carpet from plastic sill panel - take a jig saw and modify plastic panel according to the template delivered with the instructions - put everything together again (without cloth hanger and belt parts). That is the official way, but it can be shortcut: The only reason to remove all the B-Pillar stuff is to get access to the plastic piece hidden behind the carpet in the footwell. Alternativly you can partly remove the side panel (leave the speaker in) by pulling it at the bottom. It can be bent a little bit (carefully!) to allow you to unhook the carpet in the footwell. Fold the carpet back and you see the black plastic piece (sounds complex, but once you work at it you'll see what I mean). This plastic piece needs to be modified before you continue with the rollbar itself. I read postings where people tried to 'crush' it to make it fit, but it's definitly better and cleaner to cut it with a Dremel or a Jigsaw. Since there are a lot of electrical lines behind I would be very worried what happens with the splinters. Here is a picture of what needs to be cut away on each side (the yellow part is about 8x3'') Once this is done reinstall the carpet and the side panel. If not done yet remove the plastic parts of seat belt (top) now. Only after that you should lift the roll bar into the car and continue with the installation of the bar itself. Lift the bar into the car with the legs first so that the front legs (more or less) line up with the front anchor points. The crossmember is now lying on the steering wheel (cover it with a towel to avoid scratches). It may be a good idea to use a ratchet strap for the rear legs for the installation. You get a bit more room when pulling the rear legs together. Now you can rotate the bar pivoting abound the lower anchor points until the rear legs line up with the rear anchor points. It's a good idea to use a big piece of cardboard between the bar and the headliner when rotating. Watch out with the sunroof! There are some mechanics which may rip the headliner! Now everything should line up, no jamming or pinching. Install the screws very carefully! The material of the screws is harder than the threads, so it's easy to mess up the threads (it cost me 150$ to repair!). Only tighten them up once all 4 screws are properly in. This is the most difficult part of the installation and may need some time (and sweating and swaering) It's all a very tight fit, but it really works. Warning: It is a DIY job, but not for the unexperienced! Leave it to a dealer if you don't feel comfortable with this. You can rip off the rear mirror, scratch the paint, mess up the threads, break the windscreen..... If you have 'two left hands', better pay for the installation rather than for spare parts or a paint job. PS: the full story and a few pictures can be found on another US Renn**** Forum, titled 'Porsche TE Roll Bar Installation Guide' in the 996 DIY area.

Thanks for posting Wolfgang. It certainly seems much more difficult for a coupe. For a cab, it's literally undo four bolts, drop it in place, redo four bolts, albeit very carefully to avoid stripping. Does the factory procedure mention using the ratcheting straps?

No, the factory does not mention the ratchet strap, but life's easier with it. I think with the cab the whole thing will be easier. You can drop the bar in from top and you don't need to remove the front seats. I guess there is no need to modify these plastic pieces, as they only need to be cut because the bar has to be rotated in the coupe. But even if it sounds complicated it's not that difficult.....

Yea - I was all ready to go to VIR, and my friend in FL called and made me the godfather of his new kid. Christening was that weekend, so had to cancel VIR . GT3 shows up in a couple weeks (build already completed), so I'll shoot you a PM when it shows and you can swing on over and drool

The biggest problem with my car and the DasSport is the sun roof. It makes the roof clearance lower and I've marked the roof materiel where it got trapped between the top of the bar and the sunroof. PITA. Note to self, no sun roof next time...

I'd be curious to know how in the world you will be "cracking your head open" on a roll bar that is behind seperated by a large seat as well as your seat belt???

Well, this has been (and continues to be) the subject of a LOT of debate, including a couple of threads on this board, if I remember right. Basically, the idea is that in a serious wreck the spatial relationships between your head, the seat, and the roll bar do not remain constant. Things bend, break, crunch, and just generally flop all over the car. In that process, your head might meet the roll bar. At least, that is the theory that some folks have, including some people that are basically almost professional race drivers. I'm a little skeptical of it myself, but on the other hand, I don't know that I'm willing to put my life on the line to see who's right. For more info, you might search the archives, or look around the net. Sorry I don't have a link to point you to, but the discussions are out there. Maybe on the Racing/DE forum, I just don't remember exactly. =Carlos= P.S. One other angle: I think the car just looks better without the bar on, when you've got the top down. (but that's me)

Then add some padding to the bar would be the best "preventative" measure. But I still don't buy the argument that you can hit the bar. If, and that is a big if, you have your seatbelt on, your chances of hitting the bar are near nil. Agree as well, cruising with the top down and the beautiful shiny bar is a looker

I really got a lot out of all the postings on this and other forums on how to install the factory roll bar, so I thought I would give-back a bit. I think a huge time saver was to modify the plastic sill/rocker panel. Many folks have done the install crushing the panel but I took the advice in the post above and did the mod. I was able to do it without removing the B pillar. Here are some pics that show you how to pry up the carpet and then modify the plastic. I used a dremel tool with a drill bit, and while it isn't pretty it sure worked great and allowed the front posts to drop in without stripping or requiring and other modification. You just pry up the rub and unhook or cut the cutouts in the lower rug that hooks over tabs in the plastic sill and then just pull it out. I could not un hook the tab towards the front of the car and found that slicing the rug worked fine and it did not effect the appearance or function once re-installed. My other tip was that when I had installed the front mounts and was rolling the rollbar rearward, I was trying to get it by the mirror and instead of removing the mirror, it just popped off at the ball socket by accident solving the problem. I popped it back on when I was past it, easy! The pics are of the passenger side of the car taken looking rearward. Enjoy.