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YOUR RESEARCHDeep Sump Experience
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Install ln 2 qt kit
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Double checked after driving a fair amount for leaks and everything is dry and tight.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I am just looking to make sure I have checked the appropriate boxes of prudence.
Install (my car already had an x51 baffle installed
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I have the LN Engineering 2 quart deep sump kit installed (my car already had an X51 baffle installed, but I installed the newer version in the kit along with the M97 oil return tubes) with the sump guard, which is a must since the sump is the lowest point under the car.
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Install (my car already had an x51 baffle installed
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I have the LN Engineering 2 quart deep sump kit installed (my car already had an X51 baffle installed, but I installed the newer version in the kit along with the M97 oil return tubes) with the sump guard, which is a must since the sump is the lowest point under the car.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Looking for folks experiences that have installed either option with regards to any observed oil pressure differences and specifically for folks with the 2QT extension, has ground clearance been an issue.
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I�m prepping my car for it�s first track day and on my let�s try to prepare so as to not blow it up list is the oiling system.
2 popular options are the 2QT and .5QT deep sump kits.
More = more better is my general feeling but I have a concern with ground clearance with the 2QT extension on a car that still sees road duty as well.
Looking for folks experiences that have installed either option with regards to any observed oil pressure differences and specifically for folks with the 2QT extension, has ground clearance been an issue.
Gracias.
I have the tune RS 2 quart deep sump (pan spacer with horiztonal baffle) along with the EBS x51 style vertical baffle.
On NT01s, my pressure still drops like crazy. Down to 15 psi in certain turns. I'm not sure how its possible, but it is consistent. hasn't blow up either, so who knows, but its certainly disheartening.
Same problem on my friend with mantis pan, fresh motor, and piston squirters deleted to increase pressure.
While i think the baffles help, it doesn't seem to eliminate the problem by any stretch.
I have a ln 2qt deep and had no pressure drop at a hpde day with street tires. I modified a factory skid to work but any skid would work and is a must. I have a 1.5" spring drop and i have to be careful but i usually only scrap on driveways.
Right handed turns more than left turns?
Yeah, common issue on these cars. Not all have it. Supposedly race oil that doesn�t aerate as much helps quite a bit, but the engine design is the biggest issue: the scavenging pumps in the heads on the M96 were doubled in quantity on newer M97 engines, as well as the change from dry-sump from the 3.2/964/993 to hybrid sump on the M96/M97 also contribute to the issue.
Those with deep sump kits - can you install an engine plate cover to protect it?
I don't believe it unless you are just dawdling. You have any video showing the gauge?
Stock gauge is not the most accurate either. No way does an M96 make 5bar of oil pressure at 3000rpm like the gauge shows.
I think we�d need to know what track he plans to go on before we assume he�ll blow up his engine. Tracks with long sweeping right turns are the most problematic.
Otherwise, yes, any track time for any car should come with the possibility that the engine will blow up or the car will be destroyed in a crash. Small risk, but it�s there. Which is why I get insurance for my track days.
well we typically run tracks clockwise so its generally right handers, but I get pressure drop both ways. I run xp6 race oil.
The new m97 engines still have 2 scavenge pumps so I'm not understanding.
I have the LN Engineering 2 quart deep sump kit installed (my car already had an X51 baffle installed, but I installed the newer version in the kit along with the M97 oil return tubes) with the sump guard, which is a must since the sump is the lowest point under the car. I have already scraped the guard several times on my driveway.
I track my car at Road Atlanta. Turn 12 is a long sweeping high speed right hander. I am not the most competent driver, but I take it a relatively high speed. I have not noticed an oil pressure drop, but I typically don't look at the gauges, rather the turn in point on the curb and then the apex of the inner curve. I try to avoid looking at the fast approaching wall at the bottom! I run Driven XP9 (10W40) oil at the half way mark on the dipstick.
Edit:. I check the oil and it is XP9 I am using, not XP7 as I originally posted.
I have the LN Engineering 2 Q Deep Sump kit, as it comes, I have done a few DE Days and have not notice an oil drop, running street tires. The way I figure is I have done to this engine everything that can be done reasonably to extend its life, but I don't worry about it blowing up, everything breaks down eventually.
https://lnengineering.com/2qt-deep-s...51-baffle.html
A Sump guard is a must with this kit, my car is lowered to GT3 specs and I have a few scratches on the guard, mostly thanks to speed bumps.
https://lnengineering.com/bilt-racin...ard-plate.html
no video and i know that the guage isnt the best but its all i have. Ill be the first to admit im not the best or fastest driver and im on street tires. As far as i can tell i had no issues with my oil pressure on the lighning track at njmp. It does have a long right hander but its not a super fast corner.
bottom line is i think the deep sump prevents the pump from sucking air and thats enough for my driving style, dont know what else i can tell u.
Thanks... An additional $300 bucks for the sump guard is a bitch but is what it is.
Appreciate all the responses. Obviously there is no be all to safeguarding a motor for track duty. I am just looking to make sure I have checked the appropriate boxes of prudence.
I have the LN 2qt deep sump and the LN sump guard.
Noico material has eliminated almost all of the NHV,
The slight additional noise now is tolerable for a DD.
I've only put a thousand miles or so on it since I added the Noico material and it is holding up well so far.
I usually put 1K miles per month, but now I only commute 2 days per week.
The guard can resonate into the cabin, I have covered the top of the guard with Noico as well and this has eliminated the noice. Strange is some people seem to experience this noice and other don’t, but now we have a solutions if you do.
Well its kinda ugly as u did it at 11pm the night before a hpde. I basically welded tabs in the left and right side, used an aluminum square tube in the back (3.4 motor doesnt use the bolt hole in the rear of pan), and piece of angle in the front of the pan. Basically just extended it. I think if i were gonna put a 20k motor in i would pony up for the ln skid or make one that attaches similar to theirs. Sorry only pic i have.
I would love to see more info about this also.
I have owned 7 996 Carreras, tracked most of them. Every single one had oil pressure drop as per the gauge, I have lots of videos and I have raised this issue in the past as well...
I have yet to suffer failure on a tracked Carrera, though I did rebuild an engine after a rod bearing failure on a high mile street motor, and have a friend (Post here David!) who suffered rod bearing failure due to low pressure @turn 1 at VIR. They definitely suffer from it, particularly on right hander sweepers. Of course on track this involves braking hard and relatively high RPMs as well, though hard to say if that's a contributor.
The first time i took my 996 to the track on street tires and XP9 motor oil i saw the oil pressure drop in sweeping right handers at Roebling Road. I installed the LN 2 qt kit and problem solved. I opted for the optional skid plate and glad i did. It dosent happen often but i will scrape it. My skid plate had the bad resonance people talk about. I was the first to install Noico and it shut it right up. The LN kit with the skid plate is expensive. But i found it on Partsgeek.com for much less than the LN site sells it for.
I now have 4 track weekend events on the car and am very very glad i got the LN kit.
I run the big LN sump. Pressure is better than the .5 FVD sump I was running before, but not perfect, still see drops where I would prefer not to. Don't want to go accusump though.
The LN skid plate, which I think is almost required (since the new sump sits so low), is a JOKE. At a certain point I was trying to be nice about it the plate on another thread. But it fits like crap, and requires modification. Makes a ton of noise, which requires you to add anti vibration material to it, and is stupidly priced for the effort you have to go through to make it usable. Charles will say they can't fix it because they can't duplicate it, but many many people have had the issue.
All that said, I'll continue to recommend the sump because it works well, just be prepared to be disappointed by the skid plate.
Big ups for the PartsGeek info - $1039 Vs. 1198 for the kit and skid plate combo
Thanks, I read through that other thread and really looks like the respect earned on a lot of good products has bought the MFG some room to put out a not so good one, at a price that I will just hold my nose and pay with no other options available.
I would add a small comment about the skid plate. When i got mine i agreed with everyone that it is way overpriced for what you get. The one i got from parts geek was very flimsy and had no addition bends to add rigidity. After install the noise was insane. I actually thought it wasnt the skid plate and that i messed something up upon install of the deep sump. After removing the skid plate my blood pressure and heart rate decreased. I read several threads on here and found one in particular about this exact problem. I later reached out to LN engineering about this issue. As other have stated as well, i was given a response that they have had a very very limited number of complaints about the noise but never had a car at their shop do it so it is hard to fix an issue they cant replicate. I tried several option and none of them corrected the issue. Eventually i reached out again to LN and dealt with Charles directly. My Major concern was more of the skid plate doing its job. To me it was way to flimsy to support an "off track" event or road debris. LN reached out to me and sent me a newer redesigned product. The newer version had additional rolled lips which made for a much beefier product that i have no doubt will "better protect" my engine when i make a mistake on track. The noise however was still present. I did some research and found very inexpensive product called Noico on Amazon. Ordered it and installed it as directed. Its been on for several months and one track weekend. Not to mention many florida rain storms and it still looks perfect.
In short i still agree that the skid plate is over priced. But LN Engineering stayed in constant contact with me and helped as best they could. They even gave me the engineers email adress so we could discuss the issue. I stand behind LN. Their product work and they are very active on this forum assisting people with questions and concerns. When building new designs and innovations they will always have hiccups. Its how they handle those that defines them. While some on this forum will not share my opinion. I believe they do an amazing job with customer satisfaction. As he always does, im sure Mr. Charles Navaro will chime in
Small addition. As long as the skid plate does its job..... it will be a very small price to pay in comparison to the amount of money it will save me in and engine replacement due to a cracked block. Money well spent to me
i believe mine was an early production version. It was completely flat with just the ears to mount it. i could almost push hard enough with my hands to almost contact the oil sump plate. The revised version had rolled edges for support and it dosent budge. I would never try it but i bet i could use it as a jacking point.
We added the rolled edges after a few posters commented on NVH with the original design. We were unable to duplicate the issue and up until that point, we had not had a single call about noise from the shops and suppliers we sell them to. The modification did make it stiffer for sure and we were hoping it would reduce the noise, which it did some for those with the issue, but not completely. There is a DIY mod to add vibration dampening which does seem to cure the issue.
If you are running a stock N spec Porsche approved tire, a 1/2 quart deep sump is sufficient. However if you have plans on running stickier tires, say 200 treadwear or lower, a 2 quart is the best option.
We used to offer our own tandem scavenge pumps but having seen the data from an early adopter of our 2 quart sump running race oil in their Koni challenge 996, we determined there was no need for added scavenge pumps or an accusump. We recommend Driven XP9 for the track in combo with the LN 2 quart deep sump which includes our own version of the X51 baffle and 997 oil return tubes.
Thanks for the input.
As I wanted room to grow I went with the 2QT.
I look forward to installing along with the skid plate.
I�ll update the thread with thoughts upon receipt/install and then after my track days with observations.
I�ll be switching from driven DT40 to XP9 during the install and will stick with XP9 for the track season.
Bought the deep sump and skid plate from Parts Geek on Thurs, 6/25 and it arrived today 6/27, no expedited shipping needed.
Total cost 1,054.
Thanks toMbren1979 for saving me some money.
Parts look as expected from LN, we'll see what we see after the install.
Go easy on the sealant. You want a very thin layer around the edge. If you stick a thick bead on, you can end up with pieces of excess sealant breaking off and getting stuck to the oil pick up screen. There are several older threads on this forum that discuss this issue. I had two pieces on my screen due to the original owner using too much sealant when they installed an X51 baffle (the old style with rubber doors).
Edit: The debris you see at the bottom of the original sump plate are bits of plastic from the chain guides.
Double bump on this. I had two that were almost impossible to get out. I just thought that is how it was. The third time I used it, I bought it right from the dealer for $45 and damn near almost pushed out the entire tube since I pushed on it so hard (like I had to on the previous two).
As I’m at the office and didn’t check the package before I left, the sealant is Loctite 5900, correct ?
Going to put a tube on order to be sure I don’t run into issues.
THANKS.
Got the deep sump installed after work...
Hardware that comes in the bag is not all the same size, the 3 bolts that attach the baffle to the sump are shorter - pull them out and set aside
Take the sealant that comes with the kit and throw it in the woods, buy
THIS
I thought I'd be slick and just press the sump up against the block without cutting a couple of guide screws from the stock hardware - STUPID - it was a pain in the *** to align + get screws started and made my semi ok sealant job look like **** wiggling it around trying to get alignment. I hope it doesn't leak but with that semi **** show, I would deserve it. If you're doing the install without the aid of a lift, I'd suggest making a couple alignment pins out of the stock hardware.
The rest of the install went OK, oil arrives tomorrow and I'll get it filled up and on to the next project. Should have some pictures and video in the next couple days...
Went for fast drive.
I can see what people are talking about (a little bit) on the NVH affects of the skid plate.
Mine is really not too bad and manifests itself as a hum i can hear and feel on deceleration around 3.5K RPM.
I'm wondering if I can just put some rubber isolation material on the cross member mounts.
Just to make sure as it was not detailed, did folks install the skid plate cross member mounts between the cross member and arms ? So the skid plate mounts are sandwiched between the cross bar and arms...
I put the Noico sound insulation on mine and it is somewhat like having rubber material on the cross member mounts.
Yes, mine is between the cross member and arms.
Place your bets...
I bought
THIS RUBBER GASKET
from home despot and made some isolation pads.
Will it work ?
ETA... Yup, it works. Mitigated to acceptable levels - very low impact.
I paid $7 and spent 1/2 hour on this fix, may be worth LN adding some precut pieces (or something similar) in with the skid plate to keep any customer noise down.
ETA.. Here are some pics of final product, I'm pretty happy with how the black skid plate turned out. Double checked after driving a fair amount for leaks and everything is dry and tight.
Does anyone have pictures from underneath with the car lifted to see the mounting locations of the skid plate in better detail?
Does anyone know if the mounting location will be the same on a 996 and 997.1? I�m assuming yes.
I see your skip plate sides have a small bend upward, mine does not have this. I wonder if this makes it the resonance less by eliminating some vibration.
I like the black paint, definitely makes the plate less noticeable.
