996 project brainstorming, please stop me!

Hi! I've reached the midlife crisis point in life that seems to requires an open top Porsche. After some research I am about to commit unheard heresy and came here for the voice of reason and potential better ideas for the project. As the base car, I am planning to get a salvage / rolling 996 cabrio carrera that seem to be widely available for 10-15k euros for obvious reasons. I have a reputable bodyshop that would be willing to install a facelift e.g. GT 997 bodykit like this to it and paint it to wanted to colour for 15k, probably much less, if the salvage car would be Carrera S, maybe the front end conversion would do with a new paint. https://www.florencecarbondesign.com...to-991-gt3-rs/ As I drive a Tesla as a daily, I would need some power out of the car to enjoy it, so swapping the potentially already dead carrera engine into a Turbo from 996 with refurbished standard turbos (?) could be done for 15k euro based on whats available on ebay today: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2002-PORSCH...UAAOSwxgBdUtjs Doing turbo conversion would also mean a saving of some 20k in the local tax alone, so this seems very attractive at this point. Now, this would leave the interior, brakes and suspension to be addressed still, which I assume are doable seen the amount of material available. So, in a short summary, I would get somewhat decent looking (to my liking), ok performing summer car for around 50k-60k. As a comparison, you get a 2007 4 S cabriolet here for 80k so I would also feel like this would financially make more sense to me. I am not too worried about the resell value which obviously wouldn't be anywhere near the spend, the value for me would be having a car according to my liking and would like to think of this as a keeper in watch terms. Owning a 996 that would look like a 996 is an absolute no go for me and 997 cabrio even in s trim would be underwhelming in performance, hence the turbo conversion is to only way forward I see here. Please point out something absolutely crucial I have overlooked costs or viability wise and before anyone says it, no not expecting to be invited to local Porsche club meetings with this or planning to badge/pose it as a real GT or RS Thank you for any helpful ideas or opinions up front! J

Your cost for putting in a turbo motor are very low. I think that body kit will look dumb as a convertible. Otherwise, its your money so have at it

What would be a realistic number in your view to budget in?

Have you thought about using a wide body kit 996 to 997 from jacquemond since you are in Europe? I personally like the looks of aerocabs, I don't think it looks dumb but it's obviously your car and your money. I've seen aero cabs made by gemballa and love the looks. In regards of the turbo engine, there's a thread here on rennlist, a guy has been working on it as a project for a while, he said he hasn't spent that much, you should probably look it up! Good luck! edit: Here! https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/1041442-installing-turbo-engine-in-to-996-c2-4.html

Personally I would enjoy the car naturally aspirated, even if turbos are more expensive in the long run it would be less headache to just buy a 996 Turbo. Clean title cabrios, with lowish miles can be had for less than $20k here but your market sounds different. Don't rush into it and I am sure you can find a car that fits your needs that wasn't in an accident. I have an Audi S3 and it feels faster, probably is faster than my 911 but the 911 is a better driving experience.

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with everything, $20k probably is reasonable. The ebay motor has a 2500 core charge and doesn't include turbos or the starter. You also need intercoolers, mounting, etc. If you can diy everything including the wiring, you likely can do it cheaper

Ask yourself if you want to build or drive? With your ideas there is many hours of wrenching, so you better like that and not only due to finances.

Just buy a 996 turbo and drive it! You'll thank me later.

One big thing you are missing is the transmission. The N/A transmission will not bolt up to a Mezger turbo engine, and then there is the wiring and electronic modules and TONS of little things that would need to sourced.. This would be "NO Attempt" for me.. To get the end result you want, I would look for a front end wrecked 996 Turbo Cab, then do the body work mods you want to it while fixing the wreck damage.

One of the wort things you can do to a 996, IMO is to try to make it look like another 911 model. It implies that you don�t like the car and couldn�t afford the car you wanted. Enjoy the 996 for what it is. It is the most unique looking 911, and on the upswing in terms of people�s appreciation for it. Having owned a 997 and 996, I can�t say that one is really better than the other. I recommend that you get a 997 and call it a day. If you get a 996 and put $15k into looks, suspension/handling and bolt ons, I can�t imagine you would be unhappy with it.

I think it would be more difficult and costly than swapping in an LS motor. Buy a 996 or 997 Turbo and then modify it instead.

Thank you for the comments, as mentioned due to our crazy taxing Turbo is a financial no go especially considering we have max 30 cabrio days in year and I must admit I would hate having so much money tied up in a car that I strongly dislike lookswise. Just for reference, non cab 996's Turbo's go for 65K USD here. Also, engine swap options are very limited here to due to strict local laws, you can swap in engine from the same series of cars only and with the supporting mods of brakes and suspension to match that model. (so LS is no option if you want to drive on public roads) The transmission part was valuable and news to me, I confess having completely overlooked this. The engines are available with complete transplants complete with wiring etc and I was planning to use a local specialist to make the swap to ensure it is is done right at the first go. (maybe to have them source the kit altogether) 997 cab would make sense too, however the NA engines seem impossible upgrade in terms of the local law and bang for buck you get plus as I mentioned, even a 500hp petrol cars feels very lackluster after driving a basic Tesla.. :/

Have you tried driving a standard 996 Carrera? While of course a Tesla is faster 0-60, the 911 is so much more fun to drive that you really don't care anymore about 0-60 times. And the 300 hp Carrera is plenty fast enough: the great thing about it is that you can accelerate with full throttle through second and third gears without immediately getting to silly speeds (third gear will get you way over the speed limit anyway). There's really more to a car than only the acceleration times, even though Tesla's marketing would like you to believe otherwise.

Well, you asked to be stopped...so here we go! It sounds like your local laws are quite strict, requiring retrofit of suspension and brakes to match engine and engine swap only from same series cars. You realize that ALL of these things are different from 996 C2 to 996 Turbo in addition to the noted transmission difference between C2 and Turbo. So, you are literally talking about touching every system on the car. Additionally, you are shoving intercoolers into a car not built to house them. You do realize that Turbos are widebody for a reason? Finally, you�re talking about completely retrofitting a car...the interior will not survive this feat without needing retrofit also. Secondly, you�re dailying a Tesla and live in a climate with 30 days of cabriolet weather, but talking about trying to do a budget build instead of just buying the car you actually want. You seem to say there are an abundance of blown engine 996�s (presumably cabs) in your country, but that 997 cabs and even 996 Turbos go for a premium. Enlighten us...what place is this that these cars go for such a premium? Some future sellers here might be very interested. Finally, you asked for advice. Joining a forum to post about the �heresy� of modifying a car is nothing new here. You�ll find that RL is a den of sin for customizing/modifying a car to your liking...and an incomparable resource. However, if your reason for mods is that your choice of car (and forum) is due to your severe dislike of the model and distaste to drive such a car, I wouldn�t count on a warm reception. Maybe you should look at another model/marque that would be up to your standards.

Trying to address both at the same go, so I haven't driven a 996 but had the chance to track a 997 GT3 RS, which I honestly found underwhelming at acceleration but tearing out my internals at corners (even C7 kept up pretty damn well). As I am not looking to have a track monster here but a fun cruiser, maybe accepting the Carrera engine would have to do here if the tech swap is indeed that cumbersome. Having lived the EV life for years, I just honestly feel embarrassed for the loud noise especially when there is no performance to back it up, the exact reason I am selling my Diavel now (and to make room for the 996!) @Subourbonite I am based in Finland, so we have full access to european market which literally means hundreds of suitable candidates available at any given day, just run a search autoscout24 or mobile.de Unfortunately, the price premium is mainly built on our stupid and illegal car import tax, that is the 2nd highest the world. If I lived in any other european country, I would get the 997 turbo cab without ever posting about it here. I got the impression that Porsche community is quite puritanist when it comes to these things, so also wanted to test the waters on how such ideas are received in the perspective of sill providing technical expertise around it. So far I am not terrified and about to bid on a suitable candidate I found. And to be clear, even a base 996 looks better than most of the alternatives from that era, it is just that 930 and 997 look so much better that they are almost too easy to hate. Driving a Porsche should be an impossible thing to hate I hope, regardless of which bottom tier car I end up with

I find your comments....annoying. bottom tier car...ummmm yeppers good luck with search for your bottom tier car

I wonder if you ran that GT3 RS all the way to the redline. Also, the noise is a huge part of the fun. If you don�t get that, maybe just go looking for a Tesla Roadster?

Seems like this shouldn't be so difficult. Better starting point? http://www.ooyyo.com/finland/c=CDA31...66700941.html/ Just buy what you are wanting to end up with...for the 60K � you want to spend on Frankensteining a bottom tier car. http://www.ooyyo.com/finland/c=CDA31...88481471.html/ Newer and over 400HP... http://www.ooyyo.com/finland/c=CDA31...59192822.html/ Maybe you'll like the 997 or Turbo or MB forums better. Enjoy trolling them. Buh-bye!

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Hey Razzel, I edited your comment below to "cherry pick" the information I'm primarily responding to so that you can better understand the context of my comment: It seems like you have spent a lot of time thinking about cosmetics and performance but not a lot of time thinking about the longevity of a 20 year-old platform. This isn't really a "tuner's" car in the sense that you're not going to find guys milking 1000+ hp out of the M96/97 platform like you find in certain other car communities that treat their base engine as a canvas for complete reconstruction. This fact is probably one of the main ingredients in the soup that creates the stereotype of the "Porsche Purist" that you speak of. Of course nothing is absolute - there are people that try new things and succeed. I'm just saying that "tuning and modding" is not something you're going to see as much here as you would in an Audi or BMW community. Consider the question - would I be upset if I put major money into cosmetics and then have to put even more money into annoying things like radiator leaks, cracked expansion tank, leaky/old fuel injectors, IMS bearing retrofit / solution, clutch, etc. the list of possibilities goes on. Just read a few pages of this very forum... Just food for thought. IF you're looking for a platform that you can "make your own" the 996 may not be the best canvas for you to start with. A lot of us are addressing our crisis which is a love for the Porsche 911, not necessarily that stereotypical "I gotta have a sports car, any sports car!" midlife crisis mentality.

If the OP put a 996 “facelift kit” on, say, a Ferrari 360 chassis...

Ladies and Gentlemen... I present to you some of OP's Greatest Hits!...

Ugh, where to start @Subourbonite , those are all cars without the local import tax paid, thus meaning you can about double the price if you want to drive them here. For the rest, the intention was not to troll or annoy, but to highlight the fact that I do understand that 996 in non turbo trim is not exactly top shelf and the build would not be to pose or try to be something else than a fun summer car. The rest are of course opinions which you may or may not agree with, for me they are that way. @frederik the car was also driven as licensed driver as a ring taxi that I got to attend, organ damage doubled but neck still remained intact . I recommend you will be give e.g. Tesla P100D few launches and whilst potentially hating the rest of the car the immediate raw power is pretty damn addictive and makes waiting for kickdown to kick-in pretty depressive. @Dr_Strangelove This is the thing even with new cars and something I would willingly accept, as said, I have quotes already for the bodywork and could get the get the body parsed together for potentially less than buying a mint 996 cab here. (Base car + bodykit +bodywork and overpaint). You are right about the brand as well, I haven't spent a minute looking other cars as those would not serve the original purpose here. Powerwise I am also not looking anything too crazy, 500-600 would be plenty enough as powerline lag is something I strongly dislike and found sufficient in my previous XKR-S Jag. And now, the declaration you all have been fearing, I made in inquiry about a mildly crashed 996 carrera so let's see what happens

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Nobody here is fearing you buying a 996. Plenty of people have wild 996 projects here and received nothing but love. People here are not pretentious or purists who think that a car shouldn't be modified. The problem is how you come into a 996 forum and start talking about how ugly it is and how it N/A form it is underwhelming. We all have N/A 996 cars, so you are essentially coming in here saying our cars are ugly and boring, then asking us for advice. To the forum members' credit, you are still getting advice and not being treated with the same disrespect you have shown our cars. I wish you luck, and if I have anything meaningful to contribute, I will. I just wanted to make you aware of the way you presented yourself to us. You had a chance to answer my post highlighting some of your less than cordial comments, but you curiously chose to ignore it. Regardless, I wish you well on the 996 project. If you actually pull this off, you should have a beast on your hands. Personally, I love driving my 996 with suspension upgrades. I constantly make up fake reasons to drive it. Puts a smile on my face everytime. I hope yours does too one day.

Just do an electric conversion to the 996...Todays technology is pretty impressive.

Apologies if the comments were received that way, the intention was not to criticize tastes of other people, simply to provide my personal background / insight to why I wanted to do this and why for me these mods would be essential. We finns tend to be blunt instruments in communication too so point well made, I hope the above clarifies it a bit and remove to any doubt none of the comments were meant as universal truths but my personal opinions. Next week I will liaise with a local expert on legislation to see if the Turbo tech swap can be carried out afterall, as there is limitation on % of parts that can be changed from the original and with tranny needing to be swapped it might get too high. Plan B is now to look what can be done with the carrera engine, I saw some low boost turbokits for it too so let's see if that would be more viable, as it would only require the Turbo brakes to comply.

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If you are in fact not just trying to troll our beautiful cars, with that kind of budget, why don't you just build a m96 engine with lower compression and forged internals to handle boost, you'd have a unique monster and it'd make a very nice thread to read...

I would not bother to sign up here to troll people and joke would be eventually on me as I have bid out now for one This actually sounds and looks like viable way forward too and maybe in some way would fit the concept better.. You Tube

Turbo brake calipers will require Turbo wheel carriers in front as well, obviously in addition to larger rotors and pads.Turbo brakes are, I believe, bolt on in the rear. In the future, you might weigh your comments, especially as a newcomer asking for advice and input, as to how they will be received. Please read Barbancourt's notation of your greatest hits and you should understand why you have offended members here. This forum is a wealth of information. Our responsibility as members is to add, not detract, from the group's experience. Blunt enough?

Coincidence or not, I stumbled upon on Turbo wheel carriers as well in my search for local resources. (from an active member here!) Now, the bad news is that local legislation won't allow turboing / charging the M96 unless there would be a TUV approved kit available somewhere (I am guessing it is much easier to get twins than find this). Hence, Turbo tech swap seems like the only way to go, is anyone aware of such build here? I saw the manual Turbo gearboxes for it go for 10k, which is pushing the total costs near to breaking point for the idea?

G96/50 Turbo gearbox is only required if you are using the turbo block. If you are adding low pressure turbo or supercharger to the NA M96 block just use the G96/00 or G96/01 gearbox that comes with the car. With a good rebuild if needed these are pretty solid to up to 450-500HP. Beware that, at least in the US, a non-Turbo gearbox rebuild by a good shop is at least $3K and can easily push to $5K. The Turbo and NA blocks have different bolt patterns, thus the two gearboxes are not interchangeable. Do some reading and research here. You'll find lots of projects to read about. The search button is your friend.

Try a supercharger; People on Renntech were installing those a few years back. Quite a few threads on that route. The were getting around 380 HP at the wheels.

You Tube

I dont know the laws in Finland for different manufacturer engine swaps, but the LS v8 option will easily satisfy your power goals without any turbos or major headaches and will come out significantly cheaper than any turbo/Mezger engine swap.

Turboed LS swap would have been exactly the right thing for my needs here, unfortunately there is no way to make that in a street legal way here. While doing research and digging, it actually turned out someone has supercharged theirs legally and is selling the car without much success (built Porsches aren't on high demand it seems), so trying to see if he would be willing to sell the charger kit alone. Chassiswise, I am inclined to go for a 4s if possible as this seems to have the turbo brakes already in it. Does anyone know if good builds as the one I am currently consider seems to have a failing ims?

" Does anyone know if good builds as the one I am currently consider seems to have a failing ims?" Huh?

That was no the best explanation What I tried to ask was that is there a golden standard for rebuilding the m96 as the build threads I found here have very little detail to what goes into it? Already sent an inquiry to flat 6 innovations, but I am guessing using an US shop for the build wouldn't be financially very smart with all the shipping and taxes etc.but they do seem to have solid fix for the ims? The base car candidate I am looking into now sounds as if it has bore scoring / failing ims so woud like budget the rebuild correctly upfront.

These guys know what they r doing and they put out a lot of tech info for free. They also support the porsche race crowd. https://www.hartech.org/rebuild-prices

I regret to inform you all that you have failed, I am a proud owner of a mildly crashed 2003 996 c4 cab now Updates to follow but the current plan is to bodykit this into a 997 turbo and swap in 997 / 996 turbo tech. Thank you for the patience, let's see what this turns into!