'02 C4S Purchase Advice

Your advise is needed - I am looking at a Seal Gray 2002 C4S with 14,000 miles in the Altanta, GA to buy. The P-Car is in great shape. However, it was involved in a "Minor" rear collision, as noted in Carfax. The owner said the only damage was gouge in the rear bumper cover, which was then replaced. Most buyer's guide articles say, if the car has been in an accident - walk away. My questions are; should I walk away or should I have a PPI which includes a laser frame check and if all checks out, still consider the car? Also, any recommendations for a good PPI provider in ATL would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your help.

I would look at it seriously. Have a PPI done, and make sure no frame damage or damage/repair beyond what you're being told. 14K miles is low for an '02 and if the car checks out, you're in a good position to leverage a competitive price on it. Good luck and let us know how what you decide. Can you post some pics??

Ask for pics of the damage.

I wouldnt be worried about a fender bender... as long as there is no frame damage.. try to find out where the car was repaired...

Minor fender benders probably would not show up on Carfax. Damage may infact be minor but I would have a body shop or p-dealer check it out.

What's the asking price?

Do not walk away if it was only mild. Have it checked out and if ok, consider it. Mine was in a "moderate" accident at 1200 miles, when it was two weeks old in 2002, and I now have 73000 miles on it. It is a non issue as far as driveabilility and safety. Resale is a different matter however. BTW, bumper covers get replaced and repainted all the time. How do you think that all these used cars with zero road debris or pits in the front bumpers are sitting on these dealers lots?

Thanks for all your advice. Based on your advice, I am going to move forward on negotiations. If we come to terms on price, a favorable PPI will be part of the agreement. I plan to take it to a P-Dealership for the PPI. Joe - His asking price is $50k.

depending on what you want to buy. if you are looking for a #-matching collectable, walk away. if you are looking for a p-car you will enjoy driving, then have some exp. body shop guy inspect the car. point out what's been replace. if just some body panels, i wouldn't worry about it. does the seller have paper work/photo about what has been done to the car? $50K sounds high.

Beat them down on the price for sure. That $50k car will be worth probably 25 to 30k (whlsl/trade) in 2 years if you put 20k+/- miles on it or so. Similar situation to my MY2000, bought for 45K, 2 years ago, now worth (best wholesale/trade) of 25k. That is with plenty of options, aero kit and sitting high 40's mileage. Mine is a C2 / but is a Cab. Just food for thought. RB

WALK AWAY!!! He is lying, the only way it would have been reported to Carfax is if it was significant enough of an accident. The ONLY way to buy a Porsche is with clean title and a clean carfax.

I have noticed that Carfax is reporting more and more detail than ever before. Depending on the state that the car was registered in, it may even include safety inspections, annual registration renewals and even service visits. It is therefore possible that any insurance claim, regardless of how minor, may be reported to the state DMV. I work for an insurance company here in NC, so I wouldn't presume to assume that the laws in this state apply any where else. And I won't post anything on this (or any) forum that could be construed to be trade secrets or anything confidential. Let me just say that you might be surprised at all of the information about you and your car(s) that is shared. Michael

Take it to Jim Ellis or Hennessy Porsche for a PPI.

Maybe that's true, I still say, if you want a Porsche, buy it clean. I highly doubt someone made a claim on a simple bumper replacement. If he buys that car, and gets into an accidnet (cause they happen), that car will have 2 carfax reports and be close to worthless. There is a reason that MOST dealers won't even deal with a bad Carfax Porsche. I mean, you're taking enough of a chance with a clean car, much less one with a bad history. All i am doing is passing along the great advice I got when shopping for my P.

2002 C4S's are going through the auctions in high 40's. So the price isn't to bad but need to be adjusted for the damage.

I am in a similar situation with a car out of NY. Carfax shows an accident report and police case #. Bill provided by the owner lists a $2500 repair of right rear fender/bumber cap (+ 750 for a rear wheel replacement). Something to be concerned about?

50k? You're killing me.

+1 [whimper]

Hey Phil, you and I should pick out some investments together. If they work out as well as our Porsches, we'll have the families in the poor house in no time!

Are you leasing or financing? If you are paying cash and planning to keep the car forever, great. Bargain and you may end up with a great deal. Leasing and financing companies will not touch a Porsche with accident history." No Residual Value " When in doubt, walk away.

Accident aside if C4S's are going through auctions in the high 40's wouldn't you think this one with only 14000 miles would be very close to 50? Then deduct how much for the accident and add whatever since it is being bought from a dealer. I would think it would leave you pretty close to 50 no?

Geez! $50k isn't a bad deal for an 02 with 14K!

Gant - you forgot to tell him to avoid any cars that have this "switch" on the upper center console!

Ever price a Porsche part? I imagine that buying, painting and installing a new bumper cover isn't going to be real cheap. And if you've got insurance, why not use it? Or just as likely, someone else hit the car and their insurance paid for it. What are you going to do, pay for someone else's mistake yourself just so that there's no record of the accident? Any good body shop will be able to look at the car and see what was done. If the work was done well enough that it looks factory (and they can't spot the damage) then it shouldn't concern you. I agree that a perfect unmolested pristine virginal car is optimum. I'm just trying to point out that a minor repair shouldn't keep you from buying a car that otherwise fits the bill for you. Michael

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As long as the PPI is ok and there is no evidence of damage from the accident, I would not worry about it. The big "but" is that if you ever go to trade it in at a dealer, they will really knock down the value of the car due to the carfax. If you are buying from a private owner, that should be a major negotiation point. While the mileage is nice, the car will never officially be valued on the high side by anyone who sees the carfax with a report of an accident. I had a Boxster that I took for a trade and the dealer saw that one panel had been painted and they immediately dropped $5000 off the value. Another dealer didn't bother to check the paint and I got full value. If you don't care about potential resale value, just make sure you are happy with the car. But if money means anything to you, it should be part of the negotiations. The car should be valued at the lower end of the curve due to the carfax.

Thanks everyone for your advice/comments. The seller isn't willing to move off the $50k price and can not provide me with a copy of the repair invoice, so I've decided to keep looking. I am not planning to sell it soon, but as several pointed out, an accident on it's vehicle history will impact the value, especially if I can't produce a repair invoice to show what was repaired. So the search continues!!! Thanks again

Fortunately, I didn't buy the Porsche as an investment. But, mine is certainly worth more than the $40K's - an '04 with 1900 miles, yeah! Quick story - back in '70 my brother and I were driving back on route 22 near Easton PA and passed a Toyota dealer. On the floor was a brand new white Toyota 2000GT - MSRP $7K (James Bond drove one in one of the flicks). I asked how the car got into the country since they weren't DOT legal then. Dealer was as surprised as we were - but said it was for sale at list price. We knew, even then, that the car would be worth something down the road. Just saw one in Hemmings Motor News this month - for $249K. Unfortunately, in '70, we just didn't have the $$ to buy it and put it away as an investment. Unlike baseball cards (I routinely put my Mickey Mantle cards on the spokes of my bike), we knew the car would be worth lots of $$ someday, and it now most certainly is!

I think you have made a good decision. The issue may be mute, but no records is disconcerning. I had Jack in Norcross do a PPI for many years ago and taught me it is important to know when to walk away. Regards,

Very, VERY smart choice. If you see any in the St. Lou area, I will be happy to check-it-out. GOOD LUCK!!!

Disconcerting/Moot Sorry, couldn't help myself

hmm, a gouge on bumper cover? any owner would just get it fixed out of pocket instead of going thru insurance. it's maybe $1500 tops to replace bumper cover. I think there is more to this. The fact is, this car will always have a story. I'd not want that if you ever plan on selling it.

I notice that Hennessy and Jim Ellis both have C4S' for sale. Has anyone had a good or bad experience with either one they could share? Thanks

I had a Boxster which I had serviced at Ellis prior to Hennessy's existence. Great service, including a surprising amount of goodwill on my out of warranty Boxster. When Hennessy opened, they hired my fave Service Advisor as Service Manager, so I followed him to Hennessey for service work. I shopped both stores when looking for my current CPO Cab. I took Chief Plug Guy's recommendation of a salesman at Hennessey and eventually wound up buying from him. I did not get one of the better salesmen at Ellis. I got one who has recently been bounced back and forth between the dealerships. Unfortunately the salesman I bought from at Hennessey has left the auto biz. However, there are several that have been there for some time. I have been back to Ellis service about a couple of minor things such as wiper washers, and I still prefer Hennessey. I would (and probably will for another CPO) go back to Hennessey for purchase as well. Also, Ellis' pricing on CPO cars is insane. I asked a salesman about that one day, and he replied, "Well, it's like the old saying, 'There's an *** for every seat' ". Good luck, and keep us posted.

I agree, that would be best