MY99 vs 02+ Weight Difference and other questions

I was hoping someone could help me out on this one, I am looking for a 996 and am torn between a 99 or 02+. Specifically what is the weight difference between the two (both c2 coupes manual)??? Currently I am considering a 99 because I plan on using it primarily for weekends and de's and it does not have e-gas and is lighter in weight. Also, I have heard you can get more out of an ecu flash from a 99? Currently, here are my pros/cons (please add) 99 pros -lighter -less $$$ -more performance out of remapping ecu -mechanical throttle linkage 99 cons -rms more problematic -prefer the 02+ style headlights -older vehicle and first year of production -steering wheel (would change this out to 3-spoke) 02 pros -20 extra horses -better future resale? -stiffer suspension -better aesthetics (headlights) -steering wheel 02 cons -heavier -e-gas -considerably more $$ Any insight would be appreciated. I should also say that I have owned a 951 and 986S (2000) previously and am hoping for a noticeable increase in power. thanks-

A couple of other pros to the 99: Less money means less of a hit if trashed at the track Less money = more money for track mods LSD I have not tracked my 996 only autocrossed; however, I have looked into DE insurance and that is why I posted my first pro on the list. Another pro to the 2002+: cup holders glove box Good Luck!

Is LSD not available post MY99? Also, does your regular insurance not covered a DE even though it is not a timed event? The last DE I did was 3+ years ago and I believe that state farm said they covered it because it was non-timed? If this has changed, which companies cover DE or must one buy specific insurance? thanks-

I could be wrong on this but my understanding is that LSD was offered on 1999 models and did not come back until 2004 except on Turbos and GT cars. There are many instances in regards to DE accidents and insurance companies. In general DE events are not covered under your insurance policy; however, it sounds like most people fight it and end up getting the first one covered but then are dropped (just my observation, not experience). I contacted a company called Laurel DE Management and they offer a 10 DE coverage plan at the following: $25K value, $590 premium, $5K deductable $50K value, $1,080 premium, $7,500 deductable. You are not required to have any additional coverage; however, I would want to be covered with what I am driving right now. JMO

Anyone have numbers on the weight difference, checked various places online and they all list 02 and 99 as same weight for C2 manual???

I saw the weight difference the other day somewhere and while I don't remember where, it strikes me that the weight difference was only ~30 lbs or so. with the advantage going to the '99.

Not true - or are you looking for a C4? Even then most of the cars systems had hit the street quite a while ago. Thorsten

definitely a c2 coupe manual - are you saying there was a lot of carryover from the 993? I thought the 996 was a radical departure from the 993 (would seem so with water cooling and other major changes)

I don't want to speak for Thorsten, but, a lot of the technology was also used in the Boxster which came out in the US in 1997. This gave Porsche some time to make improvements before the 996 launch.

From the '99 C2 manual for standard transmission cars, 2909.9 lbs to 3042.2 lbs. I think the '02+ cars are about 200 lbs heavier......................... Whatever it is, it's significant.

Fom flat 6, Production: 1998-2000 Engine Type: Water Cooled Flat 6 Displacement: 3387 cc 207 cu. in. Power: 296 hp @ 6800 rpm 221 kW @ 6800 rpm Torque: 258 lb. ft. @ 4600 rpm 350 Nm @ 4600 rpm Weight: 1324 kg 2919 lb

Also from flat 6, Production: 2001-2004 Engine Type: Water Cooled Flat 6 Displacement: 3596 cc 220 cu. in. Power: 320 hp @ 6800 rpm 239 kW @ 6800 rpm Torque: 273 lb. ft. @ 4250 rpm 370 Nm @ 4250 rpm Weight: 1345 kg 2966 lb So maybe 50-60 lbs??? For some reason, I thought it was more.

Don't the MY99 engines have a way of going porous? Also, why the dislike for e-gas? Didn't the non e-gas cars just use a throttle cable anyways (as opposed to a throttle linkage which would make a little sense I guess since throttle linkages are dead solid reliable and e-gas I would assume isn't)?

If you care about the nuances of vehicle handling and feeling in total control of what is happening, e-throttle sucks in any version. The MY 99 with LSD is the lightest and one of the best drivers cars of the 996 line. I would only place the GT3 as a better choice if having a true drivers car is your thing. Even then, the GT3 was heavier than a MY99 C2! Finally, even many auto journalists have ranked the MY99 996 specifically as one of their favorite 911s with only the GT3 and Turbo beating it in the 996 family. I may be biased because I have a MY99, but I bought it for that reason. From a cost stand-point, MY99 and MY00 are roughly the same money these days, so buy what you like.

First, contrary to the opinions above e-trottle is reliable and fast. I've had it in 2 cars: a 2004 G35 Coupe and my 02' Carrera. The throttle in my Infiniti felt exactly like my Maxima. In the Carrera, if anything it is more responsive when changing throttle imputs. This has to do with how the throttle signal off the pedal is applied in the ECU. It can effect both the varioram and variocam before engine sensors change from changes in the TPS and MAF sensors. Drive and 99' and an 01' back to back for comparison. If either car has PSM, turn it off first. On an e-throttle car PSM will control the throttle plate for you. The same was true for the traction control system in my Infiniti. This was one of the reasons why I specifically bought a car without PSM. But don't kid yourself, Porsche did not make this change to add e-throttle without achieving benefits. This system is extremely reliable. Keep in mind that throttle by wire has been used since the first days of jet aircrafts. The 99's are the lightest. They are also the least stiff and have the most problems. They are great platforms for race race. Especially since you would put in a cage and the proper reinforcements anyways. GT3's are about 100 lbs heavier because they are built on Carrera 4 chassis. The Carrera 4 chassis has a lot more reinforcing and stiffness in the front end. Be weary of early cars without a good service history and the recalls already performed. A 00' is better becasuse the problems were fixed at the factory instead of the dealer. There were minor changes to improve NVH through 01'. 02' was about 55 lbs heavier than the 01'. Most of the weight addition was in chassis improvements to improve performance. This includes stiffened front shock towers and a modified rear suspension. Spring and shock changes were made to compliment the other chassis changes. Some weight was added in wheels and tires. The front wheels were widened .5" to 8" instead of 7.5". The rear tires were widened from 265/35 rubber to 285/30 rubber. The brake pad compounds were also changed. The body changes are far more extensive than just different headlights. Straight from Porsche, "more discreet is the careful reshaping of the front and rear fenders, bumpers and rear air dam. The result is 25% less lift at the front and 40% less lift at the rear for improved high-speed stability over the previous 2001 model." Few ever notice the rear quarters were re-shaped in 02'. Despite the small 20 hp and 15 lb-ft rating changes, the newer cars are substantually faster. What's most noticeable is the feeling of torque you feel in your back at 2500-3000 rpms in the 3.6's, that the 3.4's lack. There is simply a lot more power throughout the rev range. You will notice the same thing if you drive a Cayman (I test drove a Cayman a couple of weeks ago and noticed it) and a 997 Carrera back to back. Car & Driver and Motor Trend both tested heavy 3.6l Carrera 4S models as long-term test cars and both were far faster than any of the 3.4l Carreras either tested, despite the weight disadvantage. You will also notice the dynos between the two indicate a greater gap than the rated numbers show. I went through the same decision you are going through. I drove a dozen different Carreras before buying one. I could have bought a low mileage 00' Carrera without a warranty for $15K less than the certified 02' Carrera I bought. I bought the newer car because when I drove it, it is worth the difference and I could afford it. In the end buy what you can afford and buy the newest car you can afford. I went through the same thing with a local club member, his decision in the end was to order a new 997', because he could afford it.

I drove my '02' C2 at the track for the first time last weekend. The PSM is a pain. However, once I turned it off the car was much better. The e gas has an odd feel. It seems to react to varying throttle inputs with different results. Took a little getting used to.

But don't kid yourself, Porsche did not make this change to add e-throttle without achieving benefits. This system is extremely reliable. Keep in mind that throttle by wire has been used since the first days of jet aircrafts. The 99's are the lightest. They are also the least stiff and have the most problems. They are great platforms for race race. Especially since you would put in a cage and the proper reinforcements anyways. GT3's are about 100 lbs heavier because they are built on Carrera 4 chassis. The Carrera 4 chassis has a lot more reinforcing and stiffness in the front end. Be weary of early cars without a good service history and the recalls already performed. First, if e-throttle is so good, why do most race cars still use mechanical throttles? Also, one of the biggest complaints on MY00 and newer cars is the e-throttle. I drove both and prefer the mechanical throttle myself. To each their own. Second, my car had the chassis stiffening option done at the factory, so I think it is at least as stiff as a standard MY00. Again, many journalists specifically mention the MY99 996 when they quote drivers cars they like. Why wouldn't they just say 996s if they were all the same? I like my car and that is all that matters I guess. I just think that some people discount MY99 cars for no good reason. I specifically wanted one for the reasons that I listed. In fact the dealer I bought my car from had a MY00 with 13k miles on it that I drove back to back with mine. I liked the MY99 better. Really, at this point the MY99 and MY00 are very similar money for equally equipped cars. Drive MY99, MY00-01 and MY02 and newer and choose what you like better. As far as the looks, some like the first generation (MY99-01) looks better than the MY02 and newer. I count myself as one of those that feels this way. In fact, money not being an option, I buy a first generation look GT3 before I buy the MY02 style GT3. Jus my taste and opinion I guess.

what you say is true...except about the speed.... the 99 996's were clocked numerous times doing 0-60 in 4.6 and 1/4 in 13.1 seconds... that's as a fast as any C4S out there... FWIW my friend has a C4S and I have a 99 with GIAC (no lsd though) and I can pull him in a strait line during in gear acceleration!! also raced another buddy with 997 with about 25K miles and he has the lightweight champion 19 inch rims.... in numerous strait lines test we were dead even... after these series of springs he commented on how my 996 was the first he couldn'g get by. I drove a friend's 2001 cab today (e-gas) and I absolutely hate the feeling of e-gas and how long it takes to respond vs. a 99 with direct throttle cable... my friend was driving my 99 (equipped with ROW 030) and he *LOVED* it. there are risks in owning a 99 however and if I were going to buy one I would pull the oil pan and check for metal shavings and do a leak down test on the cylinders before shelling out the $$$... MY2003-2004 would be my first pick.

I was going to bring up that the MY99 holds it's own in any speed comparison. Just because a MY02 and newer feels faster does not mean that it is. The clock does not lie.

ditto.

I find it funny that some are saying the e-gas isn't as responsive, since my experience has been the opposite (the only other egas car I had any experience with was an MB S500 and that too was quicker to respond than a mechanical linkage setup). But so anybody without the e-gas care to answer my question: is it a throttle linkage or throttle cable? And c70, in straight line acceleration isn't it expected that a 99 C2 would be faster than a post 02 C4? I would think you should compare C2 with C2.

opposite? you've driven a "cable" car that wasn't responsive... response is "immediate" in the cable cars vs "slightly delayed" if you drive one you'll understand...

I agree with you c70. I drove both, and there is a noticable difference. Anyone that claims e-gas is better is fooling themselves. It was not implimented because it was an improvement as some have suggested, it was implimented because of the introduction of PSM. From my understanding, PSM would not work with mech. throttle. That is why MY99 has TC with LSD and MY00 and newer gets PSM and loses LSD. In my opinion, that is a step back, not forward. The car may be safer, but not better.

Hmmm, In the ditch or on the road. Suppose it would depend on which side of the white line you were on.

I have driven both, and the e-gas in both the S500 and 996 seemed almost artificially fast (I realize how a throttle linkage/cable works - btw so I assume the 99 uses a cable...you'd think they wouldn't be cheaping out so much with such an expensive car - works, but there is a delay in the engine getting its act together, and it seems like e-gas car somehow predict it so as soon as you press the engine is going).

Troppo, As stated by 02 C the 02 also have improvements in aerodynamics which gives less lift. By the newest technology you can afford. Be wary though; if you start to do too many DEs the mod bug will sink it's teeth into you. If that's the case you may want to go MY2000. I haven't seen any evidence that a 3.6L is that much quicker than a 3.4L. Yes it has more HP but it may also be a wash because of the weight. You are correct that a flash will yield more HP from a 3.4L than a 3.6L. Then again a 996 with a different suspension (X74, PSS9, JRZ,JIC, Motons, sway bars) will be faster around the track than a stock no matter what model year. On the track the difference in speed between a 3.4L and 3.6L will come down to the driver. I don't know though you may be able to feel a difference in the torque between the two, I couldn't. I would recommend driving as many as possible and before you buy go to a PCA DE. Go talk to the 996 track junkies and get their recommendation. I spent $4,500 on mods last month, $1,200 this month and the only reason I am pausing is I'm adding a $47,000 bathroom on my house. I'm sure I'll drop another $6,000 on mods before I'm through. Good luck and keep us posted. K

FWIW, Some interesting specs from the factory PET catalogue, which lists the following power outputs for 996 engines: '99 & '00 = 220 kw = 299.12 hp DIN, 295.02 hp SAE. '01 = 221 kw = 300.48 hp DIN, 296.37 hp SAE. '02 = 232 kw = 315.43 hp DIN, 311.12 hp SAE. '03 - '04 = 235 kw = 319.51 hp DIN, 315.14 hp SAE. Also, the 997 PET catalogue shows the '05 997 at 235 kw as well, and the 997 S at 261 kw = 354.86 hp DIN, 350.01 hp SAE.

The 2002 manual coupe picked up about 50 pounds over the earlier cars, but added chassis/body stiffness, cosmetic changes and the 3.6 engine. The power and torque gains more than offset the weight gain for 2002. Later year 996s gained more weight. Generally, you're always better off getting the latest model you can, since Porsche has a practice of constantly improving the breed. Get the '02.

Maybe you've heard of a little series called "Formula 1"?? F1 cars are arguably the most advanced race cars on the planet (certainly the most expensive and technical) and they use "e-throttle". I suspect "most" race cars use mechanical throttles because that's the technology most race pit crews understand and are familiar with. Kinda like why Cessna's use cable controls and F16's use fly-by-wire. As far as e-gas being "one of the biggest complaints" on the newer cars I'm curious where you read that? I've never heard that and I have no complaints with the "e-gas" on my two Porsche's. It's fine to post a preference (nothing wrong with prefering a mechnical throttle) but some of your "facts" seem flawed.

many of the features installed for safety reasons take away from direct driver involvement. The 997 is easier to drive and safer than almost any 911 ever built. Does that make it better? Many would argue that the eaxact things that make it easier to drive and safer are what make it worse.

Sure F1 uses e-throttle that is light years advanced from what you have in a 996, so it works for them. As far as the complaints, just do a search of this forum. There have been many complaints regarding e-throttle. https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ighlight=e-gas https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ighlight=e-gas https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ighlight=e-gas https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ighlight=e-gas https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ighlight=e-gas https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ighlight=e-gas Enough said. I can dig up more if you would like. There is a noticable hesitation with e-throttle without any question. If you do not think so, you have not driven a 996 with both systems.

Hey Patrick, You have the LSD on your 99..!! that must be sweet.. putting down all that power in the corners... I have TC but no LSD... I'm really thinking about putting it on... do you think it will have a noticeable effect during non-track driving?

C70.....Yes I have bothe TC and LSD. I was not aware that you could have the TC and not have LSD also in MY99. I think that you only see a difference at the limit. Is it noticeable? Yes, but I typically do not drive that hard on the street. Are you sure that you do not have LSD on your car? I think it is code 226 or something if memory serves.

A few threads hardly makes one of the "biggest complaint" items. This whole board is pratically one big complaint department. I could easily dig up as many threads on cupholders, the repositioned digital speedometer, or excessive brake dust but that doesn't make them the huge problems. As I said previously just because YOU don't like it, does not mean EVERYONE doesn't like it. I have driven dozens of pre and post e-gas 986's and 996's and I have never experienced the hesitation you describe......sorry. You prefer the drive by cable, others prefer the e-gas.....why isn't that "ok"? Why does everyone have to agree with you??

I was just making a point. My facts were called into question, so I defended them. I think that we are all extremely fortunate to even be able to debate such things. The fact that we own 996s indicates we are doing better than over 90% of the people on the planet. I did not intend to start a hoopla. I like the mech throttle, others like the e-gas. End of story. Like I said above, I am extremely blessed & grateful that I am in a position to own a 996. In any form, it is a treat for the fortunate few.

I'm pretty sure I don't have LSD... LSD was an option for MY99... my mechanic pointed this out when we installed ROW 030 recently. 226? I'll check under the bonnet and see what the numbers say...

I'd still buy the newer 996 GT3 over the older... but as a non-carrera... i absolutely do not like the '02-'04 reshaped headlights... it only looks proper on a widebody 996. I absolutely love the '99-'01 looks. it's the best out of the 996 line with that aerokit. performance wise, it is towards the bottom of the totem pole, but still quite acceptable in the big scheme of things.

I have an early-build (Feb-98) US '99 C2 coupe tip. I believe the early M96 engines have a problem with cases going porous and causing oil and water to intermix. The "buy-a-new-engine light" came on in mine after 42K miles. I love the power and handling of my '99, especially now with 43K miles, new shocks, and only 1K miles on a new engine from the factory built in Sep-05. Luckily, the extended warranty paid for it. Again, I love the car but not everyone will have the extended warranty after this long and about $11K is a bunch if it's all out of your pocket. I believe the later M96 engines, '01 and beyond, rarely experience the intermixing problem. The advice that always made sense to me is to buy the latest model Porsche you can afford.

I agree with you on buying the latest you can afford.... I had a friend with a MY01 996 who at the time waited to buy the latest and his engine went bad...!!! and that sucks. I pulled the oil pan on my motor to look if there was metal shavings after 46K miles and nothing... so all is good for now.

I've read on this forum that the option code for LSD is "220". It's usually included with the Traction Control package.