brand of fuel you use

Guys I've been using Chevron 91 in my 911 and other cars, just wondering what you guys put in your 911?? Shell, 76, Mobil???? Bill

I used to run Sunoco 94, but can't get that here so I have been running Shell 93. I think it really doesn't matter, but I do try to be consistent with the brand and octane.

Shell and BP, mostly.

100% Shell 93 since learning about "Top Tier" fuels.

ditto

Fuel is fuel. If you check who distributes fuel to the many gas stations, you will find that it is the same supplier or short list of suppliers (regional distributors). There are, after all only 5 refineries in the US and they supply fuel to all brands. The real difference is one refinery uses alcohol to boost octane. I try to go with non-ethanol octane additives - however in a pinch, I'll use ethanol. The key is to go to a gas station that turns its gas inventory over more frequently than not, to avoid stale gas.

If top-tier gas is a necessity than check out this list of retailers that currently supply it. http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html Good luck.

Thanks, interesting. I've never bought the "fuel is fuel" argument. There are lots of products, from tires to DVD players, that are built in relatively few factories. It doesn't mean the products are the same, only that they're made in the same place.

Jewel Express.

Shell 93. My wife used to work for a subsidiary of Shell and their internal quality standards are quite high.

Sunoco 94 only.

OK, I'll take my lumps. I buy the freshest gas in town... COSTCO 93! Go ahead and pile on if you must, but I have tested the gas in my other cars (93 octane). No change in mileage or performance that I have noticed.

Sunoco 94 only.

Same here

I have used sams club ONCE and it caused a CEL

V POWER

We're so starved of decent gas here in the US, compared to the UK. (And California is worse than most with just 91 Octane) In the UK, I could drive to a normal supermarket chain gas station (Tesco) and buy 99 octane, and even get 102 octane gas from BP for my Porsche! Of course you pay for the privilege. For each litre of gas, over 50% of the cost to the motorist is Govt. duty. Actual costs per litre of 'Super' fuel in the UK are: Ave 94.1p Min 86.9p Max 105.9p So in the US that would be $7.82 a gallon!!!!! Anyone up for paying $94 a tank to fuel your 911?

Our pump octane numbers are the average of two measurement methods, one method which produces a high number, and one which produces a lower number. I'll bet the UK (rationally) just uses one method. I would guess it would be the one with the higher number.

Octane rating in the UK is not the same as the US. Your 93 octane is not our 93 octane. As for pricing....that's the price you pay for a society moving closer and closer to socializm.

Ok - here's the skinny on Octane rating - US gas is behind UK gas for octane rating as I said: And as for your comment on the UK being 'a society moving closer and closer to socializm' Well, firstly, learn to spell Socialism. Secondly, go read-up about Socialism and educate yourself. Thirdly, think before you post - your comment caused me to snort coffee out of my nose, I laughed so hard. Comedy like that should carry a health warning - really, that's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time.

Agreed You can find 93 anywhere but California.

I'm not consistent with brands, just octane rating -- 93. I get gas from whichever station is on the way.

So, the UK does NOT have socialised Medicine? (notice deliberate misspelling) The UK does not take from the rich and give to the poor, like the United States? There not a tremendous amount of political pressure to have the IK move to the Euro? (which is the biggest nation to nation social program) Do they not hand out funds for higher education, etc, etc? I did not state that the UK was a socialist country, but moving towards one with many of their policies. They have not moved as far as many other European countires, and I hope they never do. It is plain to see when you review (or worse yet, try to use) their 50 year old socialized medical industry. Even in a country that has a capitalistic structure, all the above policies and similar one, are in fact, socialistic. The U.S. is attempting to move more and more socialistic in many areas also, which is unfortunate. The only thing slowing us down is that we are a Republic and not a Democracy. Denial of a problem by people is what hastens the movement.

Oh, I forgot to mention that the European octane rating of 98 is equal to about a 93 rating in the US.

Sorry to continue the OT posting. However, you need to do your research before you post: So our National Health Service (set up in 1948) is a hybrid model of 'free' basic healthcare, and private healthcare through insurance, as here in the US. It's not a Socialist model - it's an optimum model in a 21stC capitalist society. As for the UK using the Euro - they do not use the Euro, and have resisted pressure to do so. The UK is the only country in the European economic community to hold out. As for higher education, the UK has student loans, the same as the US model. We have taxation the same as the US, where higher earners pay more tax - hardly a Socialist state. Of course the UK may appear to be Socialist compared to a Bush administration in the US - but any Socialist nation would scoff at the idea of the UK being Socialist, or even the concept that the UK is moving to a more Socialist style society.

Back to the Gas topic: What's the opinion on Chevron (with Techron)? I've been giving my car Chevron almost exclusively. I don't quite know why, but I had a vague idea that the Techron additive is good for high compression engines.

So, as I said, UK (or Euro) 99 and 102 octane would be higher than the 93 (UK 98) available in the US - and are generally available from gas stations across the UK. Your UK Porsche driving brethren have access to higher octane gas on a daily basis, at a hefty price. I'm simply trying to give the predominantly US forum membership some perspective on their gas and comparative prices.

Any major brand - Mobil, Chevron, etc - 91 octane, which is the highest octane you can get at the CA pumps unless you find a specialty station.

The article below is a perfect example of the problems with a socialized medical system. The fact is: if you remove the potential and incentive for an individual to make money, you reduce the number of individuals who provide service. It's no wonder why the affluent Europeans carry private health care insurance. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6234523.stm

I've seen racing gas (105) at tracks such as Willow Springs etc, but the price puts you off using it if you're off track!

Back to the gas issue. It is true that there are a small number of refineries in the US and that different brand stations get there fuel from the same place, BUT the additives DO differ from brand to brand. This where the added cost comes from and what can increase the quality/value of the fuel. The detergent mix, etc. varies greatly. As us poor saps in The People's Socialist Republic of California... we are stuck with a max of 91 octane. My government is robbing me of Horsepower! There are a few 76 Stations in California that sell 100 octane gas at the pump (unleaded). For a treat every once in a while with my S2000 i would put in half a tank of 100 and half 91 to run about 95 octane. The car would start smoother, idle smoother and pull stronger. I don't notice a difference with the P-car. I think it made a difference with the S2000 because of the 11.5:1 compression ratio. AA

List of SoCal 76 Comp. 100 Race fuel dealers Last Updated 05/07/06 Socal Performance 9723 Washburn Road Downey, CA 90241 [phone removed] Open Mon-Fri; Saturday mornings (Call) Lowest grade they carry is 108 Octane @ 5.50 per gallon. (Awesome price!). You provide your own container or buy their 5 gal container for $22.10. They also carry Methanol: 2.60 per gallon (you provide container) 38.00 per 5 gallon container. Vic at HighTech *Updated 5/3/06 15144 Raymer St. Van Nuys, CA Cross streets Rosco & Sepulveda enter thru back alley. [phone removed] Open 10AM-6PM 98 Octane = $5.20 110 Octane = $5.75 112 Octane = $6.15. You provide your own container. They also carry Methanol: 3.00 per gallon (you provide container) Orme Brothers Inc. *Updated 5/3/06 18453 Parthenia Pl. Northridge, CA 91325 [phone removed] (877-ORMEBRS) 103 Octane @ $47.50 per 5 gallon sealed containers They also carry Methanol: $35.00 per 5 gallon sealed containers Manning Fuel Inc. (Verified By Neal0124 *5/4/06) 8407 Tujunga Ave Sun Valley, Ca 91352 (818) 767-FUEL 8AM-5PM Mon-Fri; Closed Sat. Octane Levels of 103 thru 117 5 Gallon Jugs from $25.00 - 52.57 30 Gallon Barrel from $207-270 55 Gallon Barrel from $340-518 Methanol: 5 gal can 25.45 30 gal drum 124.20 55 gal drum 189.38 Agoura 76 28203 Dorothy Dr. Agoura Hills [phone removed] Bellflower 76 Service 16719 Lakewood Blvd. Bellflower, CA [phone removed] (Verified, 100+ Octane but not pump. Sold in 5gal ($8/per gallon 'fill your own container'-$50.00/per 5 gallon pail if you don't bring your own container & 55gal barrel/$440.00) updated 4/11/06. Downs Oil Co. (Verified as of 6/28/05) 1296 Magnolia Corona, CA 92879 [phone removed] or [phone removed] -Sunoco 110 Leaded Racing Gas - $3.50 a gallon -Sunoco 122 Leaded Racing Gas - $4.50 a gallon -Sunoco Methyl Alcohol - $3.00 a gallon http://www.downs4fuel.com/dcfracing.htm Huntington Beach Car Wash 18971 Beach Blvd. Huntington Bch. [phone removed] (Verified $5.89 100 Octane Pump) Mark's 76 [phone removed] 2043 W Commonwealth Ave. (cross street Gilbert) Fullerton, CA 92833 (Verified $5.99 100 Octane Pump) J & R Shell 1808 White Ave. La Verne, CA [phone removed] Brentwood 76 Service 12037 San Vicente Blvd. (cross street Bundy) Los Angeles,CA [phone removed] (Verified $6.45 100 Octane Pump) Graham 76 Service 2690 San Miguel Rd. (405 to 73 New Port to Mac Aurthur Left Anita, Right Prarie in Pavillion Shopping Center) Newport Bch., CA [phone removed] (Verified $5.49 100 Octane Pump as of 3-1-06) Mike's 76 Station (Verified) 100- Octane 5.99/gallon 2807 Hamner Ave - [phone removed] F&L Racing Fuel 111 Lead Octane corner of Engineer road and La Mirada Vista California $5.06 gallon Southern Counties Oil * 1825 W. Collins Orange, CA [phone removed] Smokey's Auto Parts Speed (Verified) 1602 S Coast Hwy Oceanside, CA 92054 Sunoco 100 Octane Arroyo Parkway 76 End of freeway 110 155 E. Glenarm Pasadena, CA [phone removed] (Verified was $5.99 100 Octane Pump NOW $6.19 as of 4-11-06) Phillips Ranch 76 16 Village Loop Rd. Pomona, CA [phone removed] (Verified $5.35 100 Octane Pump) S.T. Motorsports (Verified ) 346 S. I Street Unit #8 San Bernardino CA 92410 (909)388-2536 Cosby Oil Co. (Verified) 6220 Fairmount Ave. San Diego, CA [phone removed] JBA Racing · VP Race Fuel 5155 Convoy Street San Diego, CA 92111 Local: [phone removed] Toll Free: (888) JBA-5570 Fax: [phone removed] Star Propane 4426 W. First St. Santa Ana, CA [phone removed] (Verified, but Leaded Only) Cosby Oil Co. (Verified) 12902 E. Park St. Santa Fe Springs, CA [phone removed] www.cosbyoil.com (6.53/per gallon if you provide your own container ($32.65/5gal your own container)) (8.03/per gallon if you buy their 5 gallon pail ($40.15/5gal pail)) (6.93 per gallon/55 gallon drums ($381.15/55gal)) They will drop ship the 55 gal drums and credit you 20.00 when drums are empty and they come pick it up.) updated 4/11/06. 76 - 100 octane (verified) Pico & Barrington Santa Monica, Ca $7.99gal 100 octane Alliance Gas Station Sherman Mini Market Verified (4-19-06) 16103 Sherman Way, Van Nuys, CA 91406 [phone removed] Closes at 10PM! Playa Vista 76 8300 Lincoln Blvd Westchester, CA [phone removed] (Verified $8.75 105 Octane; $7.50 111 Leaded; $9.25 Leaded 118) Kahn 76 Service 150 S. Citrus West Covina, CA [phone removed] (Verified by Impresive-G 100 Oct at $6.05) Woodland Hills, Texaco 101 Octane @ $5.60 per gallon pump. Woodland Hills, CA. Northwest corner of DeSoto and VAN Owen Perris 76 station, verified 100 Octane @ $5.99 per gallon pump on Ramona Express way just west of the 215

Why would you want to spend more $$ to put higher than 93 octane in your tank? You won't make any additional power without modifications. I'm struggling to see the benefit.

I agree with Ray more than 93 octane seems like a waste. One possible exception is if you believe you may not really be getting 93 out of your local pump and that wouldn't neccessarily surprise me either. But I just run the 93 from Shell everytime. Teaxaco/Chevron are backups as they are Top Tier gas also. I do believe the additives make a difference, the basic fuel is the same.

Shell 93 because it is a "top tier" gas.

Have always used Chevron. was told the techron was good for the engine. May be all marketing hype but Ive never had any problems relating to fuel.

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but tell me anyone if you've heard of this: In my last car, I used to use Sunoco Ultra 94, which is ethanol enhanced. The use of ethanol naturally raises the octane level (octane, of course, being a property of fuel and not a substance in itself). I had the car serviced and some tuning work done by an indy guy I really respect. He told me that they had stopped using Ultra 94 in their track cars because something in the way that ethanol combusts was being read as predetonation by the BMW's knock sensor. They switched down to a non-ethanol 92 octane fuel and saw faster lap times (by fractions, obviously) because the knock sensor wasn't doing its thing with timing and mixture (engines, of course, don't 'detect' octane. They advance the timing and lean out the fuel mixture until just before they hear a knock). On his advice, I did the same with my car. Coincidentally, one of the things that I was having done was a new exhaust. And, sure enough, many miles later, my tailpipe was still clean. The old one was always black, which in hindsight would be consistent with the car running richer under orders from the knock sensor. So, anybody ever heard of such a thing? If so, is it a BMW quirk? Because my C2 seems fine with Ultra 94, and I noted with interest that the Porsche manual says some ethanol is okay, where the Bimmer manual discouraged it, as I recall. Is this a crack-induced fantasy, or is there some scientific merit to the story?

I'm sorry, but using anything higher than 93 on these cars is just pissing money away IMHO. Unless your engine has been specifically modified to take advantage of higher octane fuel, you will not make any additional power.

Look guys, we've had this conversation before and I've told you that there's little difference between gasoline brands. I'm not going to rehash the same old points, as you obviously didn't listen last time. To emphasize my point I'll quote a spokesman from AAA reference, this web page: http://money.aol.com/smoney/general/...12123309990001 "My gas isn't better for your car; it's just more expensive." Oil companies spend lots of money explaining why their gas is better than the competition's. Chevron's gas, for example, is fortified with "Techron," and Amoco Ultimate is supposed to save the planet along with your engine. But today more than ever, one gallon of gas is as good as the next. True, additives help to clean your engine, but what the companies don't tell you is that all gas does so. Since 1994 the government has required that detergents be added to all gasoline to help prevent fuel injectors from clogging. State and local regulators keep a close watch to make sure those standards are met; in Florida inspectors checked 45,000 samples last year to ensure the state's gas supply was up to snuff, and 99% of the time it was. "There's little difference between brand-name gas and any other," says AAA spokesperson Geoff Sundstrom. What's more, your local Chevron station may sell gas refined by Shell or Exxon Mobil. Suppliers share pipelines, so they all use the same fuel. And the difference between the most expensive brand-name gas and the lowliest gallon of no-brand fuel? Often just a quart of detergent added to an 8,000-gallon tanker truck." Another interesting article here that quotes AAA and consumer reports: http://archives.cnn.com/2000/fyi/rea...sts/index.html ..anyways, I hope I've made my point.

Mobil or Exxon Supreme only!

IMO all you comments so far on the UK are way out of whack and smack of someone who has very little social awareness of people less fortunate around them. How many people in the UK went bankrupt last year because of medical bills? How many people in the UK didn't go to a doctor because they could not afford the expected bills? The above two things don;t happen in the UK. Medical bills are the leasing cause of personal bankruptcy in the USA and I know countless people who avoid going to the doctor purely for financial reasons. The UK has a good basic level of care for everyone. If you want a higher level of care for then you have the insurance option that is still a much lower cost than in the USA One thing I get really annoyed about is 1. English people complaining about the UK health system when they don't realise how **** the US system is. And if they do come over here, complain they miss the NHS 2. Americans cussing 'socialised medicine', decrying it as the work of the devil Making over $150k a year I classed myself as an affluent european before I moved here - did I even bother using my employer provided private Bupa healthcare? Nope. When I broke my ankle recently my wife told me to get a cab to hospital because she was concerned our insurance would not pay. When people in the top 5% of income tax payers in the USA have to make a decision about whether or not to call an ambulance - the system needs to be re-evaluated...

OK I am an American living in Europe and there are good and bad points to each medical system. Yes the US has issues with people not having health insurance and people are forced sometimes to go on welfare in order to have there bills paid just at the Europeans pay 16-22% VAT and pay more for a liter of gas than an American does for a gallon. Which system is better, depends on you point of view. The lower wage earners in Europe I would argue pay a higher percentage of there individual pay check toward taxes than a higher wage earner would and of course you have people driving across boarders for tax free and catching cheap plane fares for getting there cigarettes. I would say Europeans look at it as a obligation to take care of the poor where we as Americans sometimes look at it as why should I pay for some person who is too lazy to go out and get a job, note sometimes but probably not most of the time true. I have no issue with either system and both countries seem to be doing fine. Now if you want to talk about the deficit, the devaluation of the dollar to the point of 1 pound to 2 dollars or where the dollar went from buying you 1.13 Euros to only .73 cents today then that would be another argument. Back to the Gas Esso here in Germany, why I get it tax free other than that agree gas is gas.

Please take the politics to OT where they belong!! You'll get a far more lively discussion there anyway. This thread is about GAS!!

A search of the net shows up lots of top tier info such as this: http://www.newszap.com/articles/2005...uto/auto13.txt The U.S. requirements for additives seems to have actually caused many fuel companies to reduce additives so that they are only putting the minimum in. Top tier requires 1 gallon of additive per 4000 gallons. Sounds small to me but I guess it's more than some are using. If it's good enough for GM, BMW, Toyota and Honda, it's good enough for me. I'll stick with Shell, Texaco or 76 for my four cars, the 911 gets a steady diet of Shell 93 only. They all charge the same unless you are buying truck stop fuel (unknown brand) or a discounter chain (same) so I am going to err on the safe side.

i use the highest octane which i can find....unfortuantely that's 91 in California....... can we put in additives etc.... it states in the owner's manual NOT to use them......... has anyone also used PROLONG?

I've been using Hess becoz' it's near me and along my usual route. It's cheaper than most other stations, If I have to, Walmart gas is fine as well. I have never had any fuel related issues in any of my cars. Before this, I was religiously using Shell, for whatever reason, I don't know. I feel I have wasted money for no additional benefits, Shell is always more expensive.

I will concede that Top Tier will not hurt. The question is whether it is NEEDED. It it were needed, then there would not be so many cars on the road with 200K miles on them. There certainly wouldn't be a car on the road that is 20 years old and doesn't have a replacement engine. I've said this before, there's a big difference between harmful, harmless and essential and when it comes down to it it's all about whatever makes you comfortable. Other than the press release referenced above I can find no other source that claims that Top Tier is worth spending money on. In the search I did most said that it's another marketing ploy that does little in real world use... this is probably the reason that in the 2 years or so that the campaign has been around it has produced little traction in the general consumer market. ... I'd love to see real data (not opinion) that says anything about the benefits of using Top Tier over any other brand, sadly I could not find a single study. I wonder why that is.

My neighbor works for one of the pipeline companies and we got into a similar discussion the other day. Basically, we are all getting marketed to death. ALL of the gas goes thru the same pipelines from the same handful of refineries. The only difference is the additive packages and the transport and storage from the terminals to the retail stations-that's it. If you are getting the correct octane and additives, his advice was to buy from the newest major chain stations in busy locations. They will have the cleanest tanks and pipes, best QC and the fastest turnover. Past that, it's simply Madison Avenue talking.

So, summarizing, all gas is the same. Um, except for the additives. Oh, and you should buy from a major chain. Got it. Glad I didn't pay any attention to those major chain ads telling me that the additives were different.

Ahem, not to further burst a bubble, but the additives are mostly the same too. Lubrizol has the market cornered in fuel additives and most companies buy from them. Chevron makes their own additives, they are chemically different and effective. You've got to remember that in a game where all players are selling a product that is chemically and functionally identical, then it's all about marketing the pixie dust... otherwise why would anyone buy on anything other then price? ...hold on, I forgot, they mostly do.

Well, that's sometimes true. But just because things are made in the same factory doesn't mean the things themselves are necessarily the same. If they are, then I have some very bad news about your home theater, digital camera, cell phone, kitchen appliances and a few thousand other things in your house. Meh... the differences might be tiny, but that's what makes horseraces. And capitalism. Now, tell me what kind of pain reliever you have in your medicine cabinet.

Gas is like oil in that its owner is probably more critical of the brand than the car would be if it could think and talk. Owners are heavily influenced by marketing fluff and advertising. I use any brand that is available when I need to fill up. In my business I build and tune high performance and race motors and see first hand all the BS that floats around in this industry. The 996 is in a moderate state of tune and by no means a race motor or anything close. It is perfectly happy on premium pump gas from most any retailer. Cruising down the highway mile after mile like on a long trip 87 octane would most likely be fine too. A Suzuki GSXR 1000 is happy on pump premium and puts out 175 HP/liter. This would be like a N/A 3.6L Porsche making 630 HP and still being docile enough to drive in city stop and go with no issues. Buy what makes you happy.

"Now, tell me what kind of pain reliever you have in your medicine cabinet." Generic aspirin! LOL

True, I know that. When I said "mostly the same" I was referring to the same generic class of surfactant molecules. Not all molecules are tylenol. Yeah, I wish we could finally kill the myths that surround fuel and fuel additives. From a scientific perspective it really is maddening to see all the marketing BS that people buy into. My company used to have a fuel and oil additives business and after talking with colleagues that worked in it I no longer buy into any of the BS. We used to have an engine test lab where we would test additives, then strip down the engines. The stories that they tell about the effectiveness (or lack of) is very enlightening.

That has got to be the best yet! Good one Nick.

You guys would have loved the soviets. Hardly any brands at all. Same stuff for everybody. No marketing BS whatsoever. Good times...

So I am thinking of getting Uncle Jessie to make me some of his special gas and go juice. Especially if Daisy Duke is refining it! I'd rather spend the extra money on an a*s*s* like hers - IMHO.

"You guys would have loved the soviets. Hardly any brands at all. Same stuff for everybody. No marketing BS whatsoever" Actually that sounds pretty refreshing, just an honest product at a fair price. I'm soooo F'n sick and tired of constantly being blasted with media BS and advertising that I do whatever is possible avoid it. Half of the worlds work is to make things appear as they are not.

...next thing you know we'll have someone in here talking about "softening carbon-carbon bonds"

Do you want a hug?

I am obviously late in this discussion... I get my gas at Costco and follow it up with the occasional Techron (not ProGard) treatment. In case you wonder what the difference is with the gas at other nearby stations, I have a picture of the same truck that delivers to Costco, delivering to Chevron. Gas companies often share resources locally to lower transportation costs, though the additives may differ a bit. I have not had good luck with Arco gas probably because it has a higher concentration of Ethanol. Consumer Report also had an article on it a while back, FWIW.

Additionally, here in the Northeast region Exxon Mobil sold their Mobil service stations to Lukoil, but continued to allow them to operate under the Mobil name for 1 year. The result is that they were selling Lukoil gas under the Mobil brand... chances of that gas coming from a Mobil tank were pretty low.

Oreganet - i noticed our car runs great on the lukoil gas... love it actually. Used to love mobil, but a las they are no more. Sunoco sucks.

Interesting. I've only occasionally used them. In my area they're usually the highest priced gas stations, but that's probably all driven by their location... lots of them in good locations.

I don't really want to go into all the mis-information that is in this thread. I work in this industry on in downstream and I wouldn't put a lot into the comments here. Only the majors can supply. Even if you go to a wholesale like Costco, Sams or Racetrack, they are buying their supply from Shell, BP, Texaco/Chevron or Exxon/Mobile. Contracts with suppliers are normally on yearly negotiations. Valero/Diamond Shamrock, which is not a major, is the only small provider that has its own refinery (just a single one) that supplies their own operations, but they also buy product from other majors. Upstream and downstream are completely separate operations for the majors and run as separate corporate entities. When supply is short, even the majors will buy from each other. Last year after the hurricanes, many of you were actually pumping Exxon supply out of Shell stations and vice versa. There was a constant amount of trading for many weeks, so a single stations could have been pumping from 4 different supply sources in a month. I can't tell you who has the freshest supply, buy I can say who gets priority. Branded stations always come first before unbranded and wholesalers. BTW, most the time when you have a problem with a gas; it isn't the brand. It is moisture contamination in the storage tanks.

I use Shell 99 Octane (Europe)

i use Sam's, so far no probs w/any of my cars.