down shifting concern

guys Today while I was driving on the freeway in 6th gear and then trying to down shift to 5th for stronger acceleration. I accidentally rev the rpm too high to 6000 and forced it into 5th. I then heard a loud grind from clutch or transmission. I don't know if I damaged the clutch or trans???? I not so used to downshifting ??? Thanks for all your input

The grinding was probably the gears in the transmission. You probably did not do permanent damage, but try not to ever force any gear, and you'll find that the transmission will last a lot longer.

You have to practice rev-matching on downshifts.

Thanks for all your input, I tried rev matching but it seems I always rev to rpm too high. it's very hard for me to control my input to just right??

get a lighter flywheel... .it helps to rev match much easier....

Guys I hope you can understand me asking the following questions since this C4S is my 1st manual trans! I am ejoying everthing except rev matching down shift. Will down shifting without rev-matching harm the car?? I was attempting to rev-match but my timing and coordination was not good, I think I applied the clutch and accelerator at the same time and probabily trying to put the gear from 6th to 5th without totally letting off the gas. I then heard the grinding noise and I don't remember if I put it into 5th. I really hope the transmission will not be ruined because of my inexperince???? This incident really discourage me from driving hard and trying to down shift?? Any advice woud greatly appreciated!! Thanks Bill

If you have hte clutch properly depressed there should be no crunching of gears - unless the synchromesh is already damaged. The the driver should be depressed !!

There is absolutely no need to rev match shifting down to 5th gear. Just take you foot off the gas, push the clutch down and move the shifter. Don't make things difficult. If there is any difficulty doing this, you have a tranny or clutch problem. Should be smooth as silk.

Will down shifting without rev-matching harm the car?? It will place some stress on your transmission if the rpm is far too low for your selected gear. Since I assume that you aren't racing where tenths of a sec are critical, all you need do is to to release your clutch a tad more slowly and as you do so slightly depress your gas pedal, and you will find that your downshifts are smooth. I use a downshift method called heel and toe, and after awhile it will become automatic for you. Here's a good link that describes the method: http://www.motoringfile.com/2005/07/...g_made_simple/

You'll know if the transmission has been damaged by the way it shifts subsequent to the event you described. IMO, there is no need to rev match while downshifting on the street except to practice the technique for the track. That said, should you chose to do so th difference in RPM's between 6th and 5th gears is not great so only a tiny blip in the throttle is needed. You misstimed the clutch/gear engagement movements and thus forced the transmission into gear without the clutch being fully depressed. We've all done this a few times so don't feel bad. Just don't do it very often.

GUYS The car drove like before I assume the trans is still ok. I really feel bad hurting the car like that?? I believe you guys are right I got confused with the timing and trying to put into lower gear without clutch fully pressed. When you expert trying rev matching, do you bring up the idle when the gear is in nutral from original gear or you rev up after you put the gear into lower desired gear then release the clutch. I am just wondering which procedure is more smooth I am afraid to practice more in case I do more harm!!

Do not try to rev match....PERIOD. You are learning to drive a manual tranny and should not bother with any of that. Simply set you shift points to a lower RPM (i.e.: don't shift from 3rd to 2nd doing 60 mph). The shifting should be smoth and noise free. You're making more of this than you need to. Lift your foot off the gas, press the clutch to the floor, move the shfter to the selected gear and release the clutch.

Consider hooking with with a PCA driving instructor and see if he/she will ride with you and teach you these techniques...

HELLO, I just spoke to a trans tech and he told me the grinding noise I heard were from syncro gears and that's a wear and tear item similar to clutch. Is this true ?? and where I can find a picture or diagram for this part??? Thansk

The gears & synchros are just as much wear and tear items as piston rings are. In other words, they are not nearly on the same level as the clutch, brakes, tires, etc.

"Grinding gears" is a myth, you can not grind gears, they are constanly meshed. The sound you described is the "hub" or "slider" trying to engage the spines of the gear. The syncros were beyond there limit and could not sycnronize the hub or slider to the speed of the splines of the gear. These splines are on the outside of the gear. Over time this will lead to the tranny "popping" out of gear.

TIPPY Thank you for your clear explanation, I just hope the gears are strong enough for these ocassional mistakes???? Have you had these incident before as well?? By the way I found a good description for manual transmission at Wikipeia.com I really appreciate all your input All you guys made me feel comfortable Thank You!!!!!!

Also check out the website "howstuffworks.com." They have animations that help a great deal, IMO.

Murphyslaw 1978 thanks for that link, it's very interesting. Therefore I assume the slider or hub Tippy is refering to is also called collar or dog teeth gear??? Thanks

Yes, exactly.

Notice the down shift.... thats with a blip of the throtle.. FASTEST DOWNSHIFTS or http://video.google.com/url?vidurl=h...A9UjpEROOO-9-Q