OT: Help understanding break-ups...

Guys, Just needed to get this out there since I know most of you are probably more experienced in this than I. I've know my girlfriend for around 10 years now. We dated for almost 4 years and she breaks up with me a few days ago. Her best friend who I'm close with tells me she just needs time for herself right now...to really figure things out. I guess to figure out herself before she's able to give herself to someone else. I guess she had lost sight of who she was... Everyone knows I was great toward her and told me that's probably why it took her so long to do this. I know one of the things she wasn't happy about was she felt with us, everything was just going OK. There wasn't too many sparks, passion, etc. Now, that was probably my fault as we went to work, came home, ate, watched tv, and repeated. I guess it's hard...I know this for the best but the thoughts still haunt me a bit. For a few nights I told her how I felt and we'd just both break down...but lately, her walls are up and acts pretty cold. It's probably her way of dealing with the break-up and me actually moving out. We both love each other alot and care deeply for each other...I guess I just wanted to see what you guys thought...I always thought with faith, hope, and love anything would work. Women seem to think love isn't enough... Thanks, Jack

Jack, while I beleive this should be in OT and not here in the 996 board, I see no problem with some of your 996 compadres giving some advice. I'll tell you my take. Move on. You already said there wasn't too many sparks, etc, in the relationship. My wife and I have been married almost 5 years now, yes married, not dating anymore, and we still have as much passion and sparks as we had in the beginning. We never fight (seriously never have), love doing things together, are genuinely excited about eachother's outside life, and all the other things that tell you that you know the one you are with is defintely THE ONE. I still care for an ex that I had a relationship with like you describe to a T but it was time to move on when I got the dreaded "I need space, etc" speech. Kind of a dick move to dump your *** right before New Years. If she that much of a chicken **** to be honest with you and prolong the breakup that just happen then you don't need her. I have no idea how old you are but that is not important. What is? Simple, you. And when you find the one, trust me, you will know it.

Regardless of why she feels the way she does the best advice I could give is let her be for a while. Give her all the space she needs a start doing things for yourself that make you happy. Maybe start going to the gym or sign up for a Martial arts class, try carting or autocross, anything to occupy your spare time. At the same time you may become more interesting to her since you will seem to be doing fine on your own and handling the break up like a man. Stay civil and interested in how shes doing without calling her everyday and she may come around. Women always go through these wanting more phases...........as do men. There are a ton of single women out there as well. Good luck and take care of yourself first you'll be fine!

Thank you both for your words and inputs...hearing everyone's words of wisdom brings alot to the table.

Welcome! Now go crack open a beer and watch some great bowl games

Short, blunt answer - she's over you, but feels that telling you the reason(s) why would be more trouble than it's worth. Best bet for you - cut all ties and move on, because believe me, it's over - you're done.

Sorry to hear your story - timing sucks, but there's never a good time. If she's gone cold, then you're done - at least for now. Move on. If there's something there, then the relationship will remake itself. I share Dell's story - me and my wife are the same - married 12 years, known eachother for 15. We're still pretty much the same as we were when we were dating. I could be with noone else, the spark is still there and I can't even contemplate spending my time with anyone else. We don't argue and we have a true partnership. Finding "the one" is tough, but when you have it, then you'll know it. Don't settle - too many people do and that's why the divorce rate is so high... aim for the long term and find the right person, rather then settling - it will make the world of difference to your long term happiness. Good luck! Now get out there and get back into all the interests that your relationship has quenched. Have fun. When you're least expecting it you'll find the right person.

S14-There is some good advice here. Be patient, mature(don't bug her), keep yourself busy by reestablishing old friendships etc, and eventually time will heal all. Now go for a DRIVE!!!!!!!!!!!

She didn't take the Porsche right??????????????????????????

LOL...no the Porsche is in my hands...you guys have been great. Thanks so much.

Jack, Bonnie Raitt recorded a song a number of years ago - I don't remember the title, but one of the lines was "I can't make you love me if you don't, I can't make your heart feel something it won't." Words to live by. If it's meant to be, it will be - otherwise, time to move on. Good luck!

Wow...kind of shocking to hear some cavalier opinions being tossed around without much understanding of their relationship dynamics, personalities, and history. Relationships aren't business transactions, and not everything is so cut-and-dry when emotions are involved. Jack, I'm sorry to hear about your break-up. They say familiarity breeds contempt, and given your long history together, things appear to have dulled somewhat with complacency setting in. Perhaps a period of separation would be best, if not for self-discovery, then certainly a test of your bond and foundation. Give her all the time and space she needs in her moment of confusion and reflection. Even though you're no longer her partner, you're still her friend -- a longtime friend who knows her intimately. Be there for her without being intrusive, bitter, or judgmental. This is a good time for both of you to re-examine and re-evaluate your relationship, interests, and goals. In the meantime, rekindle some old or take up new hobbies for yourself to stay occupied. It's destructive and certainly unhealthy to wallow in misery for any amount of time, albeit it's human nature. Might I inquire as to why your relationship lacks sparks and passion? Seeing as you're aware of her reasons for discontentment, why have you not strived to improve the quality of your relationship? Why have you allowed it to remain stale, instead of liven things up, adding some spice, and romance her all over again? If it's the lack of effort (for whatever reason), then you two still have something worthwhile. Unfortunately, work is NEVER a good enough reason. If, however, it's the lack of desire from either party, then it's likely over. Without more to go on, I can only gather that she's missing the excitement and passion you two had in the beginning. Try to ask yourself why it has come to this. I hope I don't come across like you're at fault. I'm just trying to understand why the break-up happened and how the relationship can be salvaged. Don't give up so easily. Anything worth having is worth fighting for. One more thing, love IS enough, but it's what you DO that keeps it alive. Good luck.

I'll give you this much, take it for what it's worth. Been in the same situation many times in my life. Last time was about 5yrs ago. Dated a woman for a couple years till the relationship was considered "missing" something. She needed space and the guilt she felt, knowing I was truly a devoted "nice" guy was evident on her face. After a month or two of her dating typical skirt chasers and she returned with a new found appreciation for what she had pushed aside. This happened not once, but no less than three times. Finally, we managed to hold it together consistently for more than a year. We got engaged and married 3months after that. We were separated 4 months later and finalized our divorce less than a year after our wedding. I had my honor questioned, my accounts drained and life essentially set back 10 yrs. I'd spare anyone else the same by saying that if there is a reason she can't be with you now, then there's no reason to be together in the future. I learned that the people practice not only making a commitment, but also reneging on them as well. Good luck.

Phil, Those words are indeed something to live by and I understand a relationship is exactly that...a relationship. Needs 2 parties for that... Charlie, One of the things that bothers her is even in the beginning, I wasn't all that romantic. We went from friends to living like a married couple. I guess I can be too practical sometimes and these are things I need to work on. It probably came to this because we both became to comfortable as to where we were and it shouldn't be like this...I know that now but yet again, too little too late. Dave, I'm sorry to hear about your experiences...I would truly hope it wouldn't come to that if we did get back together in the future. Thanks to all for the valueable input...I appreciate it all guys!

Sorry to hear about the breakup, but it sounds like you are dealing with it maturely which is good. I know what you mean about falling into a routine, going to work, eat, bed, repeat. I have been married 7 years and we were together 3 years before that. Used to be that we would jump in the car (a turbo P-car when we met) on Friday and head to vegas, palm springs, or whever for the weekend. We rolled valet, stayed in the "suites", etc. We were nothing if not spontanteous. However, after buying our first house in 95' money got tight for a while. It was hard to travel and do the same types of things for a couple of years. I saw it as sacrifice for the future, for a time she saw it as "now that you have someone, you don't want to do all of the fun things you used to do." I had to explain that it was short-term sacrifice for long-term gain. Maybe you two are just in that period right now - she misses the guy that used to buy flowers and send her dirty text messages mid-day. Maybe she is not sure who she is or what she wants. Who knows? Doesn't necessarily have to be your fault though. I agree with the other guys though, hold out unitl you find someone you really want to be with long-term. My wife and I are partners and buddies too. We may have different ideas about raising our kid sometimes, but all in all I think we will make it. That is what it is all about. Don't let anyone tell you that being single is easy either - most of my friends are single, and the older we get, the harder it is for them to date anyone who is even decent. My 34 year old buddy was just dating a grandmother of 6. That is just not for me. Best of luck.

How old were you two when you started dating?

www.drphil.com I can't be the only one...

huh?

Sorry, time to move on. If someone is comfortable in a relationship they never need time for themselves to think about. Polite way to softly say "I'm outta here".

I once heard the phrase "the enemy of the Great is the Good". It applies to many situations but particularly to dating. Think about it, being in a good relationship keeps you from going out and finding a great relationship. In essence, the good relationship is the enemy of the great relationship. I would consider this a fantastic opportunity to go out and meet the woman of your dreams. And your lucky, you didn't have to break a good girls heart. You may have to put up with a little heart ache yourself, but it will pass. Good luck and like Dell and other's have said, when you find the right person you will know it. You will look back at this and think "man Im glad that happened".

I actually read this thread to my wife and asked her input as a woman. She totally agree with my advice and those that gave similar advice. Another observation seems to be that nobody has touched on is what a dick move it is to dump someboyd just a day or two before New Years! That is a time when you WANT a significant other to ring in the new year. Sounds like she may have already found that person and just needed that extra push to break it off so she could spend New Years with that significant other she is now chasing. I could be totally wrong about her but it just doesn't add up unless she has somebody in the queue.

I was thinking the EXACT same thing... Obviously, there is know way for us to know but hearing the situation...it sounds like she had something else lined up. Again, good luck with everything.

We were probably around 20 when we started dating... Dell, timing wasn't great but it wasn't her decision to tell me during this time. I felt something was a bit off on Christmas day and really kept asking her to tell me. She obliged after I asked her maybe half a dozen times. On New Years eve she just hung out with her mom and dad. Her best friend had asked her to join her group of friends to go out but she just wanted to be alone. New Years day she spent time at home just talking to her parents about things.

Then here's my take as blunt as it sounds. If y'all don't have good communication skills (which is obvious since you had to beat it out of her) then the relationship is doomed to begin with. As old as it sounds, but it is 100% true, communication is the key to a healthy relationship. You shouldn't have to ask and if you do you should have to beg to get it out. If you ask if something is wrong in a healthy communcative relationship then you will be told exactly what is wrong. This clearly isn't the case. Sounds like the relationship was one of proximity and habit. You are still young so don't be discouraged about finding the one. Heck I spent my entire life in one city (almost 30 years) and then moved 2K miles away to only find my "the one" on a visit back home 5 months later! She (my wife) is the first person I even dated (and trust me I chased ALOT of skirt) that I even said to my mother, "I just met the girl I am going to marry". I was ring shopping within 3 months, proposed in 6, and married in 12. Still feels like the beginning with my wife. I know I made the right decision. Hang in there! You always have your Porsche buds to help ya

I guess I'm the only sentimental fool here, trying to give her some benefit of the doubt. Yes, breaking up right before the New Year is cruel, but exactly how much classier of a move would it be to break up right after or shortly after? People say the one you ring in the New Year with should be the one you love, so if for some reason, she's confused about Jack being "the one," then she should NOT ring in the new Year with him and give him false impressions. Sure this sucks, but would anyone rather have the charade prolonged any longer than it has to? Maybe she does have someone else lined up already, or maybe she spent the New Year's eve just as miserable. Given Jack's brief account, it appears -- at least to me -- that they genuinely love and care about each other, only she's questioning herself whether this comfort level akin to a married life is all she wants out of it. All meaningful relationships evolve through stages. The ones who resist the evolution are the ones that bounce from relationship to relationship, seeking only the thrills of certain stages. It isn't wrong for her to evaluate the relationship, nor is it wrong for her (or any woman) to want to be loved the way she feels she deserves. Maybe Jack just isn't that "knight-in-a-shining-armor" kind of guy she's looking for. Not every man can be a harlequin romantic, and there's nothing wrong with that. Perhaps it has taken her this long to realize she doesn't want to "settle," but all this is moot now. Assuming not all is lost, the only question is whether Jack wants to be that man she wants? Remember, a man doesn't HAVE to change to please his woman; he has to WANT to change.

Sorry C, you lost me with your last thought. People do NOT change. Trust me on this one. Personality is something that is devloped over many years of human development and at this point, change is not possible. State change? Of course. But not trait change.

As supporting evidence, my wife of two years told me recently, "I'm not the person you thought you married. I changed myself to meet your expectations and now I realize I can't live the rest of my life like that." Okeedokee....

That's true, it's nearly impossible to effect personality changes. However, behavior can be learned and changed. I do not believe thoughtfulness is purely a personality trait.

Uber......I guess then we need to throw out all the empirical evidence to support what I just said. Not to mention I should try and get a refund on my graduate degrees since they forgot to tell me that as well....... (by the way, I am a behavioral scientist). Charlie....true about the behavior, that is done through operant conditioning.

Dell, I thought you were a statistician? Anyway, sure behavior can be learned, but core personality is hard to change. You can embrace the core and learn to live with it, or you can be miserable. Noone is truely happy until they learn to embrace who they truely are and learn to leverage their strengths and weaknesses.

I am...... .......Statistician and Behavioral Scientist wth my background are one inthe same. M.S. Experiemental Psychology (stats heavy program) Ph.D. Psychology with concentration in stastical/reserch methods ...hence the reason I teach stats courses. You name it, we got it in the PSY department WRT to stats course offerings. If you really want to learn and understand stastistics from a general applicability perspective, my degree track is the way to go.

Ahh! Thanks for the clarification. Sorry for the digression. Damn, we have a shrink in our midst!

Nope, not a shrink. I know sqwuat about clinical psychology and have ZERO diagnostic skills. My organization, the APA (American Psychological Association) has over 50 divisions and clinical is just one, and actually didn't come about till after WWII when there was a need for mental health services. ....and now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

s14...... Sorry to hear about yor situation..... LOVE is awesome when you're in love, but it SUCKS big time when you're dealing with the aftermath of one not going so well..... I've been in your situation a while back and i tell you, life hurts and everything you do will remind you of her...... i tried everything possible to get her back and when looking back, that was the very thing that made her move further out.... What you need to do is ENJOY YOUR LIFE.............. if you love your life, great things happen and she'll take notice. and if she doesn't take notice, it's okay because you are now loving life..... LET HER GO and DON"T COMMUNICATE or see her or anything...... SOmetimes, absence makes the heart grow fonder..... but it never will if you continue to talk to her, see her or anything of that nature.... CUT OFF ALL COMMUNICATION and LIVE YOUR LIFE....................Good Luck

s14roller where are you located?

NJ...why do you ask?

if you only had the CGT, all of this could've been avoided. She would've come home and found the 4 strippers in her bed............................. Cheer up, move on, delete this thread and best wishes for the new year. Go spend some time with your friends!

He may be interested in you (not that there's anything wrong with that)

Jack, I would put myself in her shoes and see why after 10 years you havent commited. A woman needs to be assured that you are in it for the long haul. She needs to have some type of commitment to feel secure about her life. I would say that she re-evaluated your relationship and after 10 years, she is moving on to someone who is ready. Ready to build a family, ready to be a husband, ready to commit. I am sorry to hear about your scenerio however life does provide lessons and chaulk this one up to that. Now go watch Dr. Phil....

This explains so much! Kid, I haven't read this whole thread. If I had I'm sure I'd be looking for a bridge to jump off of. Here's what you do. LOG OFF! Shave, take a shower, get in your 996 and head for a tunnel. There are more single women in NYC than anywhere else in the world. Accept that she's doing the same. If, after some fun, you still can't live without her, check in. If she feels the same way, ask her to go steady or marry you or whatever. If she's moved on so be it. She'd have moved on sooner or later anyway. Now GO!! Jim

Alex, I've known her for 10 years. We were just friends for 6 of those years mainly due to timing. Jim, lol...you're right...I did just come home from work in my 911 and it does feel My intent on this thread was not because I'm depressed or looking for a cliff to jump off of...rather, I know I'm unexperienced in the matter and use everyone's input as a chance to educate myself on the topic. It's been great so far and I gotta say I actually look forward to seeing all the new posts.

Is that good or bad?

No, shouldn't you be saying, "so how does that make you feel?" or "did your mother have an impact on that aspect of your personality?" Sorry, I'm bad.

Let's not give the guy a hard time for coming to rennlist to air his laundry. This is pretty much a brotherhood. But...my take is "move on and enjoy yourself." I know it's hard to hear from the inside, but as an outsider, it's easy to see and say. If things aren't great now, when you don't have a lot of life's burdens, they would be horrible later. I once had the dream relationship: spontaneous trips, lots of sex, drinking, laughing, playing sports, and no fighting. Everything was great. Now we're five years into a marriage, have a mortgage, two kids, a third on the way, and I wouldn't call things "fun" right now. I would call them stressful with some fun things ahead. I'm a very involved dad, and pretty successful with work, but the wife tried to pull the "you're not very romantic anymore" crap recently. I said, "you have got to be kidding me. You stay home with the kids, you live in a nice house, do you know how many women would kill to be in your situation? I can't do everything, blah blah blah." I wound up defending myself for putting us in what most people would consider a great situation. Long story short, if it's not great now for both of you, moving on is the best thing. You have freedom and a Porsche. Wanna trade for a little bit???!!! Dell - you don't have kids yet, right?

touche' I gotta tell I haven't laughed so hard in a while. So much in fact that my wife came running into my office to ask what the hell was so funny. She said "is it those chat board friends of yours again?".....to which I said, you got see what "BLACKCAB996" just wrote. Well I just read it to her and she laughed so hard she almost pee'd her pants. She is in the bathroom right now. Thanks for bringing the laughter to all new levels this evening at my home! Oh yeah, in case you didn't figure it out, the answer is NO, we don't have kids.

Glad to be of service...

I have to disagree with the poster that stated she probably got tired of waiting for you to commit. If she was ready she would have been asking. My brother was in a relationship with a woman (that he met on my bachelor party ironically enough) for about 5 years when she started asking REGULARLY when he was going to propose. Every time he got a bonus it was "are you going to propose?" Every time a holiday came around, her birthday, valentine's day, christmas, she would ask "are we getting married yet?" She would talk about how she wanted things when they got married, or when they had kids - just blind. Eventually she got tired of waiting and left. He is happier than ever now. Maybe this will be one of those situations for you - hopefully. I met my wife while dating someone else - I could tell right away that she was for me. I have to say that if you were not ready to pull the trigger on this girl after 10 years, you probably knew something was wrong on some level. Best of luck. P.S. If you could not tell Dell does not have kids, you do not have kids of your own.

Come on, even a blind mouse could tell that... what guy with kids has three Porsche? Don't worry, one day he'll be doomed like the rest of us.

Until then it's track days, "fun" time with the wife, and living life! Don't get me wrong, I love kids and would love to have them, but my wife and I just love being married right now

Absolutely right. We waited 10 years before we even started trying. One thing I will say... if you're older, kids are way more exhausting than they would have been if you'd had them when you were younger - BELIEVE ME!! I have never been so exhausted as I have been in the last 14 months... and I think it only gets worse.

Maybe we will just adopt some 18 yr olds and then send them off to college j/k

Just make sure she's a hottie ...sometimes I even surprise myself with how bad I am.

Bad, very bad!

Take a cross country trip to clear you head. The first couple of months will be rough, but get out with some friends and rediscover life. Join a book club. Try EHarmony (you can date my sister). Now, back to business - why do I drive a 996 again instead of an M3?

M3's are slow and so are 993's!

Breakups, it' hurts a lot the first 50 times, after that it's easy ... Like so many said before, she is over you but doesn't want to hurt you by telling you that flat out. Time to move on. It does work to make yourself occupied to take the mind of it. Find a new hobby or why not an old one, like your car :-) And there are lots of women in the world ...

Dallas you are too funny!!

I will try not to generalize here, but some women have an incredible switch that can instantly turn off all feelings towards you in an instant - totally amazes me to see. When that happens you're dealing with a mule and nothing can change the situation until she wants to changed.

^ Haha yeah I can see what you mean...

You called my wife a mule, that's funny. Now she's gonna kick my *** and yours...................

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Have the two of you considered professional consoling? If both of you are willing to do that it may uncover some underlying problems that can be addressed. However, both of you need to be committed to the process and follow the path lit by the consoler. I really don't know your whole story and I am not the one to hear it anyway, but even if she is not willing to go, maybe you should go. You will most certainly find it enlightening and a way for self discovery. Good luck and go for a nice drive and make sure you wear a smile!

Good advice Dell. I agree totally. My wife and I dated for 6 years and have been married for 7. I love her more now than I ever have. I have been off from work for the last month, and she and I travelled and spent time together. We do everything together and go everywhere together. We entertain each other, and I miss her any time I am away. So like Dell said if this is where you are I think I too would move on. Life is way too short and there are way too many fun woman out there with whom you can spend your life with and never be bored, or feel stagnate. Get on with getting over this heartbreaking ordeal and move on. That obviously sounds harsh and that is not my intent because I am certain this is a very humbling and difficult time. Just be glad it is now when you are not married to her, and there are no children involved. Keep your chin up and things will work out for you for the best.

Same with us. No kids. There seems to be a correlation to marrital bliss, lots of fun and absence of children ;-) We will probably have some one day though.

once you have kids, you need MORE track days to remain sane. ask how i know.

I had a feeling about that

From a divorce lawyers point of view she has moved on likely with someone else. Leave her alone and she might come back but iis totally out of your hands. Was she hoping for a ring ?

Now there just HAS to be a 'ring time' pun in here somewhere...

Fair enough but I can say with 99% confidence that someone else isn't the issue right now. She hasn't been asking for a ring although we occasionally look at some. We're both young (23) so were probably thinking another year or 2. Dell, you're right about something which occuried to me today. I had thought our communication was great but realize that in the beginning, we'd sit down and have talks about issues. For the last year, we haven't done so. Maybe because women are just tired of bringing up the same topics and guys are tired of listening... In these cases I always think of some humor...I don't know if anyone watches Dave Chapelle but he did a stand-up once where he talked about how he'd be sitting there watching tv and his lady would come up and say "David...we need to talk" Dave: "F***! I don't say that outloud...but that's how I feel inside. Cause everytime we need to talk, it's about something I gotta do! We ain't never gotta talk about something she gotta do!" In any case, learn and grow I suppose.

DUDE, you're 23!!! Now I really want to trade positions for a while - plus, you will be a different person at 30 than at 23, so you shouldn't be thinking marriage anyways!!!

Check out this list from the NYT -- I think the P-car is #13: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/17/fa...gewanted=print

I've gotta ditto that - you've been dating her since you were 19, you're now 23. Don't take this the wrong way, but you still have a lot to learn about life, so go out and do it. You're young and still have plenty of time. It's not as thouough you're an old man using a Porsche to pick up chicks, you're 23 - get a grip, there are plenty of fish in thaat pond and you have plenty of time to learn about all the local wildlife.

Haha, I guess I'm just a bit different than the normal guy. I for one looked forward to married life have having a kid! But all kidding aside, I am young and have alot in front of me. I really need to get into my head that I have many years to come in terms of learning experience. You guys have been a blast and I'm happy so many people decided to add their input. I hope everyone has a great Friday night!

If this makes you feel any better - at 23, I was driving a used Honda Accord making $32k annually. Now I'm 37 and last night the power went out (actually in the morning) and wasn't expected to be fixed until today. I spent the evening with me, my pregnant wife, a 2 year old, and a 10 month old in a hotel room. Oh, Friday night would have been A LOT DIFFERENT if I were 23 with a Porsche. On a serious note, you sound like a really nice guy, and probably more "mature" than most 23 year olds, but please be patient. I do love being a dad and a husband 90 something percent of the time. It's the small percentage of the time that it is tough as hell that makes me glad that I waited to have the family. Hopefully this thread has at least helped numb some of the pain during a difficult time. Breakups are never easy, but I actually believe it's good to have a few relationships go sour before you finally find "the one" and "settle down". You will be better able to handle the tough times and still stay together. Good luck with everything, and post pics here of the next hot girl that you wind up dating. Some of us enjoy living vicariously through others...

BlackCab996, this thead has done more than you could know...it helped a ton to just read all the comments. Thanks for all the kind words and the advice. To everyone , I offer my sincere gratitude. I guess I'm probably too serious with life and need to loosen up. Granted I do drive a 911, it honestly takes a lot of budgeting as I'm not rolling in money and don't come from a wealthy family. I did it because it was just too tempting! Most of my friends were buying new M3s but I prefered a pre-owned MY02. Even when I picked up the Porsche this year I did so knowing I'm also saving enough for a rock and a house within the next 2 years. Granted, these 2 things may be put on hold for a little now haha...

Dude chill out man. You do not want to get married before about 30. You have plenty of time for marriage, etc. Get out see the world, save money, work on career, go out with lots of chicks, etc, etc, etc. I cannot fathom getting locked down at 23. Trust all us married guys. Marriage is great, but I can guarantee you that if you get married at your age you will have some regrets. Every couple I know who got married before age 25 has divorced. Those who waited until 27 or older about 70% of them are still together. Trust me man you do not even know who you are yet much less exactly what you might want in a wife. Even when you know it is still difficlut. Life is short go live it. You got plenty of time for marriage and children.

i would think getting married at 23 or even 25 is very young. 28 or more would be ideal. i am 37. dated wife consecutively for 10 years and been married to her for another 10. i figured if i can put up with her for 10 years while dating, that's probably a sign i can live with her the rest of my life.

Mooty - In reality, it's probably the other way around!

DOn't marry young.... if u guys really love each other you can wait......

Moved in together at 22, married at 24, divorced at 30. Followed by 18 years of child support payments and being a weekend dad, career permanently altered by not being able to work overseas (I wanted to be there for my kids). Sometimes it works, but often it doesn't. And when it doesn't, it can really change the entire rest of your life. Listen to the guys who are preaching patience and telling you to 'let it be'. I'll be back when somebody brings up 'rebound romances'. They don't end well either...