175 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCH996 swap to LS3/7 Build
Leading reported evidence
Use car ownership
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Then factor in track, maintenance abuses, factory recommended OCI, 2nd/3rd/4th used car ownership with no history, boy cry wolf, etc.
Leading evidence: 'Use car ownership' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check $15k, get back an engine' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
IMO for the price, either used LS1, or new/used LS3/LS7.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
IMO for the price, either used LS1, or new/used LS3/LS7.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
M96: Remove from car, send to jake along with check for $15k, get back an engine with 360bhp
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
I agree it takes away from the classic sound of the flat 6, I don't think swap changes the feel of the car if you've seen the videos, it just changes the sound.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
I agree it takes away from the classic sound of the flat 6, I don't think swap changes the feel of the car if you've seen the videos, it just changes the sound.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Those videos I put up seem to show a complete running cars with everything working, but after being on the Lsforum, I have to question if there is a running car with no issues.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
175 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T220748Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
Thanks for starting this thread. Looking forward to this project.
Might want to keep the engine complete. LN Engineering buys them for cores. Could cover the cost of the LS itself.
subscribed !
This kind of conversion will certainly be more and more popular. I can't wait to see it done on Rennlist.
About the engine, I also think you should keep it in one piece, the core is extremely expensive, if it is acceptable for core exchange, then it is worth quite some money already.
I have to admit that until you tear it apart, it might be hard for anybody to give you a price on it.
I have not heard of such buyout so don't take my word for it. My believe was just based on the insane value of cores when you do an engine exchange. I think porsche wants $18k for them last time I heard.
May be a phone call to LNengineering or Flat6innovations will give you a much better idea of what they need in order to make you an offer on it.
I'd rather see it torn apart for the interest of science
But double check before going into it.
Man I contimplated the same project for my 99 C2! The guys at Renegade Hybrids(link below)have a great kit for this swap. Goodluck on the project and have fun.
http://renegadehybrids.com/
Subscribed.
Based on your username, have you done engine conversions on the Fiero? I used to have a 86 GT fastback back in the day(couldn't find or afford an '88 with better suspension). Almost did a Northstar conversion back then until I ended up totaling the car.
Anywho, best of luck and a very nice garage. I wish I had that kind of space.
Sgt., first, thank you for your service.
I was just wondering, since this is such a clean example of a C4S with AWD, have you considered just building a more powerful M96 engine? The VC part of the AWD will not handle the torque of the Chevrolet LS engine your thinking of installing but I suppose you could remove the front driveshaft. Though that would moot the point of having a C4S.
Just my worthless opinion but if the car is as nice as you describe, I would weigh the options of building a bullet proof more powerful M96 engine (with JR's advice) to keep the car a true Porsche. The C4S model with "functioning" AWD is amazing around curves.
I too enjoy DIY projects, also nice shop floor you got there.
I can't get my head around a 911 without the flat six sound and with a v8 beat. I'll certainly watch, but it does jar with my idea of a 911
to each his own I guess.
It's easy to think that way when you have a running car. When I started my 996 project, plan A was to try to fix it, plan B an LS or another less expensive transplant and plan C to part it out. When you buy a car for cheap, last thing you want is to buy an expensive engine. I couldn't afford to buy an M96 if had to so my other option was a different engine.
Good luck with the build.
I just fired up my LS1 996 today. First start in 2 months and it fired immediately.
If you have any questions about the swap, feel free to PM me.
Not to detract from the OP's post but do you have a build thread somewhere?
Also OP, Very nice building and pool. Do you have to drive on the grass to get in the garage?
Please also keep us updated on how the Durell does long term.
The last pic brought memories of watching GI Joe.
Before I shot my mouth off about the absolute heracy of your swap, I Googled WTF is an LS3. Always a good step to take before you shoot your mouth off when you have no clue what is being discussed.
What I discovered turned me around. The LS3 is a modern "clean sheet design", all aluminum V8 that puts out 430Hp and weighs less than the M96. it's not sexy 4 cam VVT technology, but it gets there with a higher hp/lb ratio power plant, which is a more impressive metric since in the long run it's a more efficient approach. I love the bragging rights of DOHC, 4 valve, VVT etc., but at some point you realize, WTF? How did they do that without all that fancy technology? There is more than just volumetric efficiency to brag about.
Then I saw that Renegade video. Done.
Primitive? That depends how you look at it. The pushrod engine was invented AFTER the over head cam. They have a much lover centre of gravity, are generally lighter, simpler and physically smaller than a DOHC V8. Yes, technologicallt they are much less advance but if you have to work on them, you would appreciate the simplicity.
I never said I didn't like them plus the boxer motor has an even lower center of gravity so don't really see the point.
Yes I have and liked working on them along with all the older inline 6 motors of BMW as well due to their simplicity.
I've been amazed at how long Chevy has been able to use the pushrod design for this long.
Pictures are of My ManCave and My 2 Hogs (A10 WartHog, 2011 FatBoy Lo)
looks like an A-10 out of The Naval Air Station-Joint Reserve Base in Belle Chasse, home to the Louisiana Air National Guard's 159th Fighter Wing.....
It's obvious that these 2 pics are not the same building but putting them back to back like that reminds me of Doctor Who's phone booth station. The original Doctor Who too, not that SyFy ripoff. Doctor Who fans know what I'm talking about
I would just like to see one of these build threads from start to finish. I don't think I've seen any 996 v8 threads here with actual hi res pics and video.
Imre said:
I think your thread proves it can be done at minimum cost. I hate to see a clean C4S modded when it could be a classic one day. The hybrid build will pretty much render the car a novelty. Its his so whatever he wants is fine.
My personal opinion on this is a naturally aspirated engine with gobs of torque, no lag and less components to wear out are all pros. The only con would be a slightly higher cost over a m96 rebuild. Actually, in the long run, an all motor LS will net far more power gains for a lot less money so that factor alone eats up the cost difference. Since the car will remain all wheel drive he will also have little worries on traction loss from the low end torque.
First off with the sheer amount of numbers produced and the 996 stigma that might never fade away, it might be a cult car but I would have a hard time believing it would be a classic(at least in our lifetimes).
Although I'm not a purist, I like to stick with OEM stuff personally but that doesn't mean I don't like and appreciate what others are doing to their rides to satisfy THEM. We don't all look at the 996 in terms of an investment or resale down the line. Some of us just want to have the maximum fun and enjoyment without breaking our personal piggy banks. I can certainly appreciate that but more so appreciate taking risks and going into unknowns that people haven't been too many times before instead of just sticking with the plain boring vanilla stuff. Even more so when they are doing it themselves.
my $.02
I think this is a very cool project. I also think that the odds of a 996 (in any form short of a GT3) becomming a classic is a pipedream. This looks like it will be a car I would love to have as a DD! Please keep the thread going!
Yes but I got extremly lucky. It wasn't an IMS bearing faliure. Instead just a chain tensioner pad broke and caused a bank of exhaust valves to bend. If I had to do a conversion, I would fabricate all the necesarry parts for it but tyis can time time.
I have a great running 2003 C4S w/ 62,000 miles, does not burn oil, no drips, I don't know if it's had an IMS retro-fit... engine is still in the car for a test drive before selling it. Engine for sale. $8,500 all accessories included, less the exhaust and sensors.
I've had this itch for 30 years to do this, back in the 70's I nearly bought an early 911 w/ a small block Chevy. I'm going to use the Renegade conversion. I stopped recently in Las Vegas and met w/ the owner, Scott Mann. His parts and conversion accessories are impeccable, and well thought out. I'm going to install a crate LS3, 480 HP engine.
I would like to communicate w/ anyone who's done this... I know my Porsche Purist friends will hate me, but I think it will be a fun project, something different...
fwiw, you can get a good running ls2 shortblock for about $1,500. Put on a set of ported/aftermarket heads, a decent cam, and lsx intake, and you'll make 450rwhp for maybe another $3,500.
Add the $8k for the conversion kit and you have $13k in parts for an engine that will reliably make 100rwhp more than even a hot 996 build (that will cost about $15k)
So we should all do this? We could do a major thread with each simultaneous build. QC, your theory makes little sense. Some prefer to keep their 996 a Porsche. If this was a rough 996 I could see it but not a pristine C4S. What a waste.
450HP? So what? Why stop there? Add nitrous, or TT, or SC, or drag slicks. I never claimed to buy a 996 for racing so how much is enough? I would rather have a stock 996TT.
So someones doing another engine swap. Good for them. The real challenge would be to repair and improve the M96.
Mitch, feel free to PM me.
I went with a used LS1, it's by far the cheapest method. IMO for the price, either used LS1, or new/used LS3/LS7.
KK - the M96 is a joke of an engine.
Cali requires a new engine or engine from the same year. Then the car would need catalytic converters (easy); the PCV system kept in tact; and access to the OBDII port for the LS1 ECM.
As for insurance, why would that have any effect?
you really are bothersome aren't you?
No, you shouldn't all do this. That said, obviously the concept appeals to people. If you want to keep a porsche powerplant in your car, no one is suggesting you can't. In fact, please do, as I think you and Jake would need to break up if you put an LS motor in your 996.
Pristine C4s? who cares. This is not some one off rarity that will be worth millions. In 30 years, it may be worth a couple grand more than what its worth now.
I know your type. Concerned more about the value of the car than driving it. Look, you can't afford it, thats cool, buy a poster and stare at that in the garage. Probably give you the same satisfaction and you won't have to worry about driving it hurting its precious value.
Wow, I didn't realize power was only for drag racing. Hey, when ho hum sedans make 400+ hp, some people want more than the 320bhp porsche gave them. You'd rather have a 996TT...some people wouldn't. maybe they like the simplicity, lightweight, durability, and NA torque that the LSX motor provides. Until they come to your house and do the swap in your car without your authorization, maybe you should go back to oil threads to parrot DT-who-gives-a-****
Once again, no one is suggesting you go out and do the swap on your own car. If you want more power though, it certainly is one of the most cost effective ways of doing so, especially if you have a hurt motor already. (since you can sell your M96 and recover a lot of the cost).
Lets lay it out:
M96: Remove from car, send to jake along with check for $15k, get back an engine with 360bhp
lsx: Buy motor, add conversion kit, odds and ends, etc....$17k (generous). Sell working M96, re-coop $6k
So for $4k less, you end up with over 100bhp more. If you can't find that appeal, I don't know what to tell you.
Our insurance here will doesn't like any modified cars. It's written you have to notify them if you modify anything. A major mod like a complete engine would probably warrant them dropping you and not getting insurance.
First off like it has been said, our cars will never be a real collector car. The numbers of cars produced won't support it. None of us will live long enough to see that happen. So in the interim I'm going to have some fun doing the project, I'm not worried if it doesn't pencil out or not. For me the project is the project. Plus, when I'm done I can lift the engine lid and actually see a motor, not just an air cleaner and a dip stick.
My insurance carrier said there was no up charge for the swap, yours might react differently. Also in our County we only have a "Safety Inspection", lights, brakes, etc. I checked with our local inspection station and they didn't have a problem with the swap. FYI, Renegade can furnish a full smog compliance conversion if that's your pleasure.
Because overall, it's still a fantastic car despite its shortcomings.
I should post a link to the build thread on another forum I'm on where a guy is transplanting a turbo'd VW VR6 engine into his 964... that'd really make your head asplode.
Guys, I don't want to have to close this thread, it should be a tech thread about the original posters build. It would probably be an interesting build to all if you would cease bickering.
So perhaps we stop beating this very dead horse and move on.
And there WE have it. Marc, I'm not going to waste My time and effort on posting a quality build thread to HAVE IT CLOSED BY SOME A$$HOLE that thinks he can control this board with his own Bias Opnions,This is exactly what I was affraid of. Close ALL my Threads and Posts, I'm OUT of here. Freedom of Speech MY A$$. SORRY TO ALL that supported my efforts and I hope you understand my reasons.
For once that we had someone with skills and willing to make an LS conversion...
I really hope FieroFly come back to post.
Rennlist is a great place to share DIY, I hope this thread make it through.
WHAT, You just threated to close MY thread over what others are posting, How do I know YOU won't do the same 6mo from now after I put all the work into it. WHAT AM I NOT UNDERSTANDING?
Fiero, your going to get many differing opinions on what to do or not to do. Just relax and do want You want, its your car. You might want to be a little nicer to those that moderate the forum.
FF.....here is the deal. #1 cool topic and I'm following this. #2 In a 13 year old kinda way someone can't stand someone taking away his thunder because he thinks that he is a super duper DYI'r. Thing is some regs have grown tired of his infinite wisdom.
Read through all the posts and you will see who it is. His efforts are to derail the thread.....and its not Marc. Keep posting please.
Well where ever you guys are posting your 996-v8 threads please PM me! I LOVE these and want to read about them!
And white-out...any links to posts/threads/pics/vids? I want to see!
And if MARC closes this thread in say 6mos because HE doesn't like our opinions. Then what, I've wasted all my time. I'm going to check out RennTech. Maybe their Moderaters are better Behaved.
Fierofly,
I have been reading Rennlist and the 996 forum in particular and really I think I have seen only one or two threads closed over the thousands I have seen and I think both of them where on the infamous ***
I really don't think there is a risk to have your archive work closed on Rennlist, at least based on my past experience here.
Talk to Marc directly, I don't see why he would close the thread, which is soooo cool !
The thing is this is a tech forum, this is not a build thread it's 5 pages of arguing. We have a great off topic forum for that.
My intent was to try and get it back in track, Generally I am quite hands off with most threads. I have zero bias.
Rennlist is a community and a damn good one, be part of it or not. Your choice but spare me the drama.
Generally you start calling people names and your gone but the members have an interest in your build so I will let it go, it's their forum. This is not your thread, it's everyone's. that's Rennlist.
If your heading to renntech give Loren my best.
Marc, would it be too much to ask if you could keep this thread but delete out all the useless posts that make this wonderful build up to 5 pages with 3 of them being totally useless to the topic on hand?
Everyone in favor?
Uh, OP, my read is Marc is actually trying to discourage the bickering so that you CAN get the thread back on track to what you intended it to be, IMHO the caution was meant for the "bickers" to smarten up, not directed at you.
As for the "bickers", why are you all pi$$ing on someone else's corn flakes? Would you like that if someone do the same to you? Probably not........
Please, let OP get on with an interesting journey with HIS car, using HIS money, on HIS time.
All my posts directed toward the OP were done in a polite manner. I only asked about other options. Another chose to drag the thread into the gutter with the name calling. As I said previously, its his car, he can do what he wants.
All it takes is one rotten apple to get the whole bushel thrown out...I'm sure most have noticed that as soon as a specific unnamed user starts posting in your thread, it's going to go to crap.
Would love to see the build, as this would be quite the kickass build.
After you get done putting the engine in I'd like to see the performance on a track. Couldn't find any video of a conversion car racing another car. Would be nice to see if the torque handling of engine to body and drive train in the conversion car are good. Bad charicteristics could even kill you so take care.
The 996 has a healthy oversteer and if cornering and the rear starts to break loose the last resort is letting off or braking. Kind of like pitching up to stall applying opposite rudder and aleron except.......well you'll find out you are a brand new test pilot getting into that situation
What ever you do don't pop that foot up.
Yes, we have one poster contaminating this potentially awesome thread with useless drivel.
But let's let the show get on, because I am particularly eager to see the IMSB carnage.
Marc, feel free to delete this post along with the other useless drivel.
People I'm very sorry to say, This thread is closed as far as I'm concerned. I'm NOT going to put my time and effort into this to have it closed or threatened to be closed by some moderator that feels HE needs to control how and WHAT we converse about,that's our job, if we don't like it, we tell him and then he has that right. I know there are rules, but I don't feel ANY of those were violated. I'm going to still document with plenty of pictures, maybe to post at a different site after I get more comfortable at that site in the future. To some thanks for YOUR support, to OTHERS, I was NOT offended and I always enjoy a good DEBATE, espesially when I'M right. GOOD LUCK, LOL
Fierofly, we all hope you change your mind. Overall, RL is the best place for threads like this but there is another very good place if you decide to leave here (We all hope you dont). Actually in my sig you can see a build of a car I did there. Please go there and take a look. Please also come back and post a link or PM some of us. I for one, think it will be a killer build and I was serious about saying I would like to do this to one for a DD. Take care.
There's another thread from a year or two back where some guy in saudi put a ls1 into a 996 turbo. Definitely an interesting thing to click though.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...onversion.html
If someone could make a cradle kit for the 996, this swap would be relatively painless.
Oh well. Was looking forward to following this but I guess personalities got in the way. Even though Marc obliged the OP by creating the IMSB poll he had originally asked for, and Marc was trying to keep this on track, seems like one way or another the OP will hold us hostage with the threat of being out of here. Not all communities are for all people, at least in this case there is no mortgage holding anyone back from moving out and moving on to a different community. Guess it wouldn't make sense to invest time in following this when the OP could pack up at any given moment. Plenty of other interesting and informative threads to follow.
+996
I personally thought Marc was going above and beyond, especially for a new member that has had no real history to go by.
I think OP would best be suited to detail this in his own personal blog to avoid having the thread ruined since he'll have ultimate control of it.
What's not to say the new community where ever that may be won't encounter the same types of situations?
Moderators are there for a reason, just like captains and such in the armed forces and various leaders in government.
FWIW, I've never felt like this board was being censored in any way from peoples ideas and thoughts. Of course there will be times when threads will need to be closed/locked if it begins to add no value to the original topic on hand and I can fully understand and accept that.
I seriously doubt your thread would be pulled, it sounds like Marc is willing to remove the idiot posts instead.
But if you do start your thread somewhere else, I hope you will post here where you do it. There are a lot of people here who are genuinely interested in seeing this build. The time is right.
The last time I checked, a quick Google search turned up more than 1 person who has done this exact same thing, and I don't have to listen about how we are all a bunch of idiots trying to edit his content and subdue his creativity.
I was very interested until you deleted everything. Now I couldn�t care less. I see you found a following on the LS site, wonder how they would react if you pulled the same stunt?
FieroFly is military. He don't take no $hit. You wanna say something, you go up to him to say your peace and hope he's not carrying or bigger than you. Some on here are like Mosquitos to him, merely annoyances at best so he decided to go indoors.
Thanks for the update and amusing how you're able to mix Porsche, Chevy, Guns, and planes into the same posts.
I've wanted to add to this thread previously but the drama kept me away...
FWIW: My wrench, Dan at The Speed Gallery in North Hollywood, Ca., recently converted a 997 cup car with a LS3 motor bolted to a 6-speed, non sequential, cup car tranny. First tested at Willow Springs back in April at a POC event is turning mid 23's and winning the GT2 class Saturday. He ran it again at Laguna last month turning consistent mid 31's and winning class Saturday, 2nd. Sunday. The car has consistently run well and Dan hopes to offer the package for all 996, 997 variants with either the LS3 or LS7 motor. Inquiries to danaspesi at gmail dot com....
Nice but that doesn't answer my question.
As for military people beeing supperrior to everyone else, that's part of the brainwashing. Don't want to think for yourself, join them and they will do the thinking for you.
AMEN to that !
finally a reputable shop ready to offer full LS conversion!!
the 996 cup car are getting cheap, if they an be retrofitter with LS motors then the worry of maintenance going away, they might be the best track car available !!
I am very excited to hear more about this.
Please keep us posted. Cost would of course be the big question ! But I would really consider it. I mean I'd rather put $10-15k engine rebuild toward an LS conversion than putting it back into the M96 engine which offer not much guarantee in term of track reliability.
I can't wait !
I purchased the conversion kit and have gotten a lot of help from;
http://www.renegadehybrids.com/
You can see my build thread at;
http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...version-7.html
Yes, pls keep us posted about this --I've been curious about the 6 spd P tranny integrity w/ an LS--sounds like this one is holding up .
Then there is this approach---
http://ashtabula.craigslist.org/cto/4516789365.html
Bob
01 C4
31 Ford cp chp & ch, 302/350
40 ******, 302/350, IFS
38 Ford cp, 327/350, IFS
57 Belair
62 356B --long ago
Interesting thread. I am a supporter of the motor swaps for the 996, but financials simply do not make sense for me.
I can make a great case for stock LS1/JA32A2/VQ motor purchase, but from there it gets convoluted.
Even if you are doing the work yourself, the time commitment to the project is huge. Motor layout and electronics only complicate things with 911 cars. Servicing of the motor also becomes a nightmare. This option works for people who intent to keep the car for life, for everyone else this is a no-go.
Props go out to the DIYers who attempt the motor swap on the 911.
The thing that kills it for a lot of people I think is the initial kit conversion cost which starts at $8k for basically brackets and a few other items. That's quite a bit and you haven't even sourced the motor and all the ancillary parts yet. If there was a kit that cost even half that, I'm sure it be a lot more palletable to more people.
I know he bought a few parts from them and sourced the others himself. He's pretty creative...
There's not a build thread, hell I can barely get him to answer his email. Dan will be putting a "complete package price" for this conversion with options for the specific motors, trannies, etc. If anyone's seriously interested send him a note.
I race in a weight/whp class limited to about 300 whp based on my weight. I'm considering a 5.7 conversion.....
Came back from the LS forum to show your progess and get the complimentary asskissing? Look at me what I've done and tell me how good of a job I did. I thought by deleting all your posts, you were done with rennlist. I've got nothing against the build, the way you conduct yourself is what pisses me off.
Gee and I thought Pelican Parts had the best drama...This was a cool thread until it got lost with the peanut gallery....So why I am so intrigued by this setup?? Man too bad no updates on this project
I agree it takes away from the classic sound of the flat 6, I don't think swap changes the feel of the car if you've seen the videos, it just changes the sound. Its interesting
it sucks because so many have talked about LS engine in the 996, but so far not a single successful build was documented ... not one... !
I think many started it and many have given up due to the complexity.
As the cars get cheaper and older, I would have thought someone would have build a complete kit by now ;(
At least a good alternative for those with dead engine.
Renegade V8 LS3 996 Test Drive (The Saloon) - YouTube
1999 Porsche LS1 996 (911) - YouTube
I think there were 2 board members that had them? They might have left? I think the conversion pieces are expensive $8k for what you get and that doesn't include an engine. But those videos are interesting.... Man can you see a MK1 Aero Taco LS3 just blowing past....
Yes, if you wanna see a few 996 successful conversions, just head over to the ls conversions forum. There's also another source of conversion part supplier as well now that offers conversion adapter and associated parts for $3k less.
Ls1tech.com
http://www.kennedyenginc.com/Pages/default.aspx
I'd be more than okay with a 911 that screamed like a V8. As stupid as driving on the street like that is, the second video 911Dreamer posted gives me the tinglies.
How many 100% completed conversion are out there and are documented? Ones where everything works and the car passes the emission tests and the engine lid is not hacked up with a cutting wheel. I'm looking for projects that were properly finished and the result looks and work as if it came from the factory.
So far what is sure is that NOBODY DOCUMENTED a build.
Many said they did it, without saying what did they achieve and what was not complete.
Nobody posted a list of parts required with a proven finished project.
I think all the build I have seen were incomplete, always some sort of communication with the OEM functions were not working.
Getting the engine to fire up and drive the car is "easy",making it complete and working just as the OEM equivalent, that is the trouble.
If you want to drive the car without AC, and with aftermarket cluster, then yes may be.
The communication with the OEM instrumentation, HVAC is certainly the hardest part.
Have you looked on the ls1tech.com site? There is plenty documentation. Dunno if you're looking for hand holding step by step detailed guide though. Also, everyone has their own definition of what "complete" is I suppose.
What I've seen most guys do is to use two ecu's. One to control the motor and the other for all other functions like cluster integration, warning, etc.
I am about 80 % done -and it has not been that hard a conversion or that costly .The remaining 20% is the normal debug and passing emissions tests .No kit -the biggest cost item ( outside the engine) was the flywheel ,bellhousing and clutch components $1680 delivered .
If the criteria for a successful swap is not cutting the engine lid guess mine won't qualify either .
Without a custom intake manifold I could not figure out how to not cut it .
I am not sure you will ever see a real kit -the cost to develop a complete swap manual would be really expensive .There aren't a lot of parts that need fabrication to offset the cost of developing documentation so basically it would be an expensive book .
I am surprised nobody at least documented their build on a forum.
I'd love to see some step by step yes. Sometime the smallest thing can be the biggest challenge. I think the reason why we have not seen more build is because of this lack of documentation.
DCDRESCHSEL, I have so many question for you, but let's start simple: did you manage to make the cluster to work ? I mean speed, rpm, fuel gauges ? ABS should be a tricky one too ?
I can't remember his name but there's a guy on here who has a pic of a LSX motor in his 996 as his profile picture. He did the swap, documented it pretty well, and everything worked just fine. He sold the car later on and the guy wrapped it around a pole and died. Like I said it's been done. Your google-fu needs work.
I joined the LsTech forum just to follow Fieroflys build progress, I have been reading into this swap, it seems 4 members have done this swap. But unsure if they got the electric bugs worked out? Fierofly started a thread there back in 2013 and it seems he is still working on his car to this day.
Those videos I put up seem to show a complete running cars with everything working, but after being on the Lsforum, I have to question if there is a running car with no issues. Reg V8 has a kit, but one is left to work out the electric bugs when mating the V8 to the 996. For the price of the kit they sell, I would expect the bugs to be worked and the 996 to have no issues.
Philooo-the instruments are ok - as Alpine stated all that stuff has been handled .The hard part for me is getting the emissions drive cycle working correctly .The challenge is always on the Porsche side getting basic technical info .For example :Vehicle Speed what does the ABS output look like ,how many pulses per mile and what kind of signal. I have not found a person yet who knows .
There is a whole other universe out there on the LS side where it is easy to find info and people who will share it .It's like the Aircooled crowd on steroids .
As far as documenting a build many have started and then concluded it takes too much time except for fierofly who has done a fantastic job and provided a lot of help for the rest of us .
There is PLENTY of information for the swap available. Further, many of the guys who have done the swap gladly answer questions. If you're looking for someone to hold your hand for the build, then you're going to need to pay someone/shop to do it as there are many aspects of these swaps that people do not document because it's general swap info.
Specifically:
6speed online
Rennlist
LS1tech - multiple builds & thread specifically for 996 swaps
my blog -
http://996ls1.blogspot.com/
As far as electronics:
- speedo: all Porsche (don't have to do anything)
- rpm: tap tachometer signal wire with LSx pcm RPM signal wire
- fuel: all Porsche (don't have to do anything)
- temp: thread coolant temp sensor into secondary water temp port in head
- abs: all Porsche (don't have to do anything)
that is informative, I was not aware that all these points were actually not a problem.
I recall whiteout did a pretty advanced build. thanks for chiming in by the way
@whiteout did you ever find out why your car crashed ? I recall you mentioning the buyer of the car crashed it somewhere in florida.
Anyways I have always been curious about a swap, I'll go check out @ fierofly. Would be a really cool project to do if I had the time...
I just love the 996 so much, I think it is really a good platform to make a project like this as I could have seen myself keeping my car forever, for sale, but I may be back in a few years to do a LS swap for fun
If mine ever drops the m96 I will do a LS swap no questions asked. The m96 is just not worth replacing when the LS series motors are hand down better in every category. About the only downside to the swap is losing that flat 6 sound, however a LS sounds really good too, it's just different
Could be but as car mileage goes up, and engines die, I doubt many people will be interested rebuilding porsche engines especially as cost keep going up each year.
If you buy a base car for $7k with a blown engine, it makes more sense to put a LS engine in it.
I just like the idea of an LS engine
Anyways unless the value of the 996 goes up, there is no financial incentive to rebuild these car with Porsche engine.
Guys, don't forget about the one member on here that fabricated everything from scratch(no conversion parts bought) and IIRC, completed it in some crazy amount of time, like a month or so. That guy was my hero.
I couldn't put an American motor in my Porsche..... I know I might be the only one, however I just couldn't do it
-I am though an all around car enthusiast so I'll be watching this thread
After owning a modified 996TT, it would be difficult for me to choose over another LS swap or TT. I think it would come down to an LS C4S or TT. With that said, I would do it again. The car was VERY fun to drive.
That's the kit I used. Wouldn't use it again.
I wouldn't be surprised if I see Taiwan copies soon. This has already been done with the LS BMW swap kits.
Engine management would be to use factory LS ecu or something like the FAST ecu for more flexibility.
It's you. Consider there are over 100k 996's out there. Take a tally of engines that have blown here. Then factor in track, maintenance abuses, factory recommended OCI, 2nd/3rd/4th used car ownership with no history, boy cry wolf, etc. and you can see it's nothing really out of the ordinary.
The e60 M5 guys have it worse when it comes to engine failures. The only difference being that their's is a lot less to fix than ours.
I don't doubt the engines can be great but there are factors that make even the best maintained engine fail. Maybe thinking too much about it since I been reading up on the boards lately.
...said everyone who has ever heard about the LS swap but not actually started doing the math.
Unless you have the chops to DIY, most LSx swaps turn out to be $10K hack jobs that the owner can't wait to unload.
I feel like I should just start making these things.
The difference between spending the money on this swap vs. rebuilding (if possible) or dumping money into a used motor is about 200ft-lb of torque.
Does anything have to be done to the car to completely keep it from going back to stock again?
In other words can you pull out the M96, swap in the V8, and if you wanted to go back to the flat 6 you can remove all the other parts and get back to stock? I know there are probably some holes to drill but aside from that any other major surgery?
Have to cut off a decent amount of metal in the back of the car. If you did a nice job cutting, saved the piece and can weld, it could be put back to stock.
The deck lid has to be hacked up.
There are options .I used a Texas Motorcars kit -bellhousing adapter-flywheel- spec clutch pressure plate and disc -starter motor and throwout bearing .Everything fit and works well .
A good source of information is ls1tech.com conversions/hybrids forum .That is how I found txcarbuilder who frequents that forum .I paid 1650 delivered a year ago .Don't know his current pricing .Forget the texas motorcar reference that was for something else .
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
