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YOUR RESEARCHWhat oil?
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Check regularly, and it was
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Oil level is checked regularly, and it was changed 10 months ago when I got the car.
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Oil level is checked regularly, and it was changed 10 months ago when I got the car.
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I ran 0W-40 b/c it was "recommended" by Porsche or so I thought.
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so I run 15w50, and I found car runs smoother with it...
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Have always used 5-50 in my car and it was filled at Manheim Porsche, ok with that said it is time to sit back and let this topic go with all the oil experts which I am not.
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Suggestion
Many engine Manufacturers use a special factory fill formulation that assists with "bedding in" engine components and quickly stabilising oil consumption.
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Suggestion
Would I be wrong to assume that a search of this forum would not find you recommending gear oil to others that are not approved specifically by Porsche?
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This has been debated A LOT on this forum. The search function will provide you with hours of fun.
That being said I use Mobil 1 0W-40 in the winter for my '99 C4. Some have made the argument for heavier / thicker oil in the summer. I used 5w-50 this past summer and didn't notice much difference one way or the other.
Jeff
Welcome to Thursday night boxing presented by Rennlist in association with HBO and PPV systems. Tonights bout features a true difference opinion.
And in the 15W-50 corner we have 1999Porsche911........
.....and in the 0W-40 corner we have the masses.
AAAAAAARRRRREEEE YOOOOOOOOOOOU REAAAAAAAADY TOOOOOOOOO RUUUUUUMBLE?
I am curious about oil weight also. I have done some searching and will do more, but I'm trying to understand why my dealer (Austin, TX) always used Mobil1 15-50. 0-40 sure seems to be popular on this board.
okay..... the manual says every 15K miles for an oil change...... is that right? and it also stated that no additives like octane booster etc........ anyone with experience...?
Yes 15k miles is fine if you use a full synthetic. As you have probably gathered by now, oil choice is a very heavily debated topic. Most Porsche owners have stronger sentiments regarding their choice of oil than those regarding their candidate in the last Presidentual election. You can use pretty much use anything out there where the first number is between 0 and 15 followed by a W and the next number is between 30 and 50. Your motor won't much care but what ever you choose you must have lots and lots of figures and information substantiating your choice. The info need not be proven, or even factual but you need it none the less. More is better and of paramont importance is that you feel comfortable with your choice. So start doing the research and find an oil that you as an owner are totally comfortable with.
Have always used 5-50 in my car and it was filled at Manheim Porsche, ok with that said it is time to sit back and let this topic go with all the oil experts which I am not.
I have 1900 miles on my car - at the rate I'm driving it, it would take around 20 years to get to 15K.
I think I'll change it every 1-2 years regardless of mileage. And just to add to the fun - Mobil 1 0-40W no question.
Phil
Ok. Time to liven up this board a bit.
Mobil Water, in your case is probably ok since it won't do as much damage to your engine as letting it sit with the same, water deluted oil you will have during a 2 year span sitting in high humidity PA.
Most of the oil will probably leak out over that 2 years through the dried out seals anyway.
Lighten up! I am driving it, just not a lot (obviously). It's a weekend car. Oil level is checked regularly, and it was changed 10 months ago when I got the car. It won't sit 2 years without being driven at least weekly. So, I'm not about to water up the sump!
At ~70-75K my mechanic recommended 15w50... cited that 0w40 was too thin and that it leaked much easier... so I run 15w50, and I found car runs smoother with it... but probably just my imagination.
It is probably not your imagination. Your lifters maintain pressure much better with a 15W50 than with the Mobil Water by keeping your valves tight and operating at maximum efficiency. Kinda like installing stiffer valve springs. This will assure better idle as well as better throttle response. Also, since the "cling" factor is so much better with the 15W50, your seals are not without lubrication when sitting as soon as they are with Mobil Water. This reduces deterioration of the seals. There is also less wear upon startup due to more oil remaining on componants, longer, after a hot shut down. Timing is also effected by the oil's viscosity.
As I have been saying for years, more and more professional mechanics are moving away from the Mobil Water.
Mobil Water is only ONE of the many oils "approved" (not recommended by Porsche). My contention is that Mobil Water is the WORSE oil in that bunch and is being proven so, over and over again, with symptoms of rough running engines, oil leaks, burning oil, valve and timing chain noise which, without arguement, means unecessary wear to the componants making the noise.
For years, people have made the agrument that the primary reason for a thinner oil is to shorten the time it takes for the oil to reach engine componant. The fact is, 15W50 oil and Mobil Water that is 40F will travel a distance of 50 feet through a hose at almost the same speed and volume when moved by a positive displacement pump. So, this fact eliminates that argument in moderately cold temps. It is also a fact that Mobil Water does not cling to componants for as long when hot as does a 15W50 oil, causing less protection for componants while they wait for the oil to get there at start up. Does this mean that the crank will, at times, have no, or insuffiencent oil between it and the journals after a hot shut down? Remember, no crank is perfectly round or balanced. There are many additional weaknesses, IMO, that the Mobil Water has, and they can be seen in some of my other posts on this forum.
If Mobil Water was the best oil for the Porsche, why are there other oils recommended? Are the others less than best for your car, and is Porsche approving them because they are not the best?
Therefore, it seems simple to me, for those that do not store their car in sub freezing conditions, an oil weight of somethinng greater than WATER will provide better protection.
1999, you are mis-directed and wrong on so many levels that it is hard to know where to start....This topic has been dicussed and debated many times and each time that facts are presented you counter them with opinions which are fundamentally wrong. Some of the claims you make are simply un-believable. And I mean this in the kindest way, it's nothing personal.
So, which of my specific claims are proven not to be true. Please expand your comments so we can evaluate your claims. Also, what FACTS have been presented showing 0W40 is best for engine protection in the 996? Porsche does not make that claim, nor does Mobil. I am wondering who does?
Go back and read the last 60 page thread on the subject. Lots of facts and even a gazillion page website on the subject. Put me right to sleep about half way through. No need to rehash until you disprove all of that information. Take some alieve as your fingers are going to hurt from all the typing. It pretty much answered the question for many.
I was still open on the subject even though all the mechanics I know go with the Porsche recomendation until this read and 5 years of racing experience. Accusumps work great at start up and while racing.
Well put. I don't know what oil is the best. I ran 0W-40 b/c it was "recommended" by Porsche or so I thought. 100 degree days in Houston and my lifters were tapping - fairly noisey actually. I thought I was in for expensive engine work - but a Porsche mechanic suggested a thicker oil. Voila...no more problems. Engine runs like a dream.
So, apparently you have no evidence that Mobil Water is the best for our cars? How about respondsing to all these claims that my conclusions are wrong? Rather than make an accusation and run, stand up to your position and convince those of use that do not use the 0W40.
I am curious why you think (for engine protection) that an oil that leaks more, burns more and falls to the pan faster is somehow better.
ill take butter on mine..... so what you're telling me is that the 0-40W is not the best way to go...... Okay..... then what is the best bang for the buck with the best protection for my new baby?????? just give it to me simple down and dirty........
The thing that really amazes me is that you guys (and
you
know who you are) keep going on and on about the same old stuff...
if I may:
OK? Thank you.
I am about to do my first oil change in my 996, and so I did this exact thing: I opened up the manual, turned to page 68 (or whatever it is) and looked.
Oh my!
There is more than one choice!
We've got mineral oil, AKA dino oil, AKA oil. At temps "usually" over 50 degrees (that would be me, down here in the lovely South) I can put in something as heavy as 20W50. Wow.
For synthetic oil, again there is quite a range. Interestingly enough, the viscocity ranges for synthetic tend to be lower (thinner) than for dino oil. I would have thought the opposite. Oh well. 0W30 is just one of many choices.
And there is a line there that says something like "Porsche suggests using synthetic oils". Nothing about that you HAVE TO use it, or must use it, or can only use it.
But the most important thing, to me, is that it really depends on
where you live!
What works for me down here isn't going to work for some dude living in, say, uh, Chicago.
OK? So read the manual. The most important thing is that you change the oil (and filter) and you change it frequently. As long as you pick one of the recommended oils, with the proper API rating as specified by Porsche, in the manual, not some 13 year old girl on the Internet pretending to be a middle-aged man going through a mid-life crisis with a Porsche 911.
Ya'all can reheat the popcorn now. I'm going to start a new thread on which wax to use.
Michael
IMO, unless you live in sub zero temps, move your way up beginning with 5W40 oil. The 5W40 is a good weight for most, but, in hotter climates, I believe a 5W50 or 15W50 is better. This is particularly true for the 3.4 engine.
I'm trying Mobil 1 0w20 (extra watery) in my old Nissan beater. It has less valve train clatter at cold start up than it did with 5w30.
There's recent good evidence that Mobil 1 "EP" 15w50 is now mostly Group 3 base oil. The Zinc anti-wear agent has also been reduced. Many people think Mobil 1 15w50 is not the outstanding premium oil it once was. I don't know if other Mobil synthetics have switched to Group 3 base oils. The general consensus is that 0w40 and 5w40 "Turbodiesel" Mobil 1 still uses mostly Group 4 and 5 premium base oils.
Bingo! Steve has just explained the wonderful thing called R&D as it is updated to the consumer. yes it is true that 15W-50 was in the manual for cars like the 3.4L but those rec'd oils keep getting updated with superceded TSB's. And currently? The rec'd oil is 0W-40 and 5W-50. We don't get the 5W-50 here in the states. If we did, that is what I would choose. The ONLY place that 15W-50 worked well was in the 120 degree Vegas heat when at the track.
So that means that all the Porsche's since 1984 that used a weight higher than what is NOW approved, damaged their engines because of Porsche's incorrect list of oil to use? I wonder if, since they made a mistake back then, if their current approved list will also be proven incorrect down the road a bit?
Having Mobil Water on the approved list wouldn't, in any way, be related to EPA and other government agencies pushing for better fuel mileage? In addition, we all know that Porsche extending their oil change recommendations is because it is best for the engine and not because they want to lower the perceived maintenance costs and help meet enviormental demands. And we all know that Mobil provided Porsche with no financial incentive to factory fill their cars with 0W40. Right? LOL!
Dont forget!!! DO NOT change your oil until 15,000 miles.....cuz Porsche says so. Did you also know that your car will only operate on "N" rated tires and your water pump will freeze up if you use any coolant other than Porsche's?
I guess those that believe the sales pitch that only oil approved by Porsche can be used, do not modify their cars in anyway, since Porsche specifically recommends against doing so...and Porsche knows all things.........that is, until they change their minds.
5W50 IS available in the States in the form of Syntec which is the only 5W50 recently ever approved by Porsche. so there is no reason not to run it. Also, Dell, how did you arbitrarily choose 120F temps as the level to switch away from a Porche approved oil to 15W50? I mean, Porsche says that the Mobil Water is fine for ALL conditions. You wouldn't be exercising your own judgement over Porsche's, would you? LOL!
Why was the temperature cut off not 100F or 150F? I suspect that the reasons you chose the 15W50 for 120F are the same reasons I use it in 80F temps. Just curious, as well as seeing how hot this thread can get.
Have a great New Year.
Hello,
1999Porsche911 - if you dislike Porsche's Engineering expertise why own one. Selling yours may be doing some of us a favour!
Misinformation from you again, you said:
"Dont forget!!! DO NOT change your oil until 15,000 miles.....cuz Porsche says so."
Many engine Manufacturers use a special factory fill formulation that assists with "bedding in" engine components and quickly stabilising oil consumption. Your comment is wrong!
Changing oil earlier may have a seriously detrimental effect!
As for commenting on your oil "theories"... go tell the Porsche Engine Development Engineers that you know more than they do! I'm sure they have heard it all before - like some of us have!!!
Happy New Year to all from Down Under
Regards
My comments about Mobil 0w40 are not just targeted to Porsche, but ANY and ALL cars engines where the desire is to properly protect the engine from wear. Porsche IS NOT one of the manufacturers that use special breakin oil so your comment does not apply.
And again, here we go with Porsche Engineers' knowing all things. Rather that using that arguement, which seems to be all encompassing to some people, why not respond with specfics. Like WHY, if 0W40 s the best oil, does Porsche approve other oils. 0W40 is available worldwide, so I would have to assume that no other oils would be used by Porsche unless they are as good for their engines as they think the 0W40 is. And if that is the case, why are you against using the 5W40 that is on the approved list and why were you against using the 5W50 before it was removed.
You cannot have it both ways just so you can win a debate. If, as you say, Porsche engineers know the cars better than any of us, then all their recommendations are to followed. GOD forbid that you actually can use your experience and knowledge to make modifications to the recommnedations as you see fit. Kinda like the unapproved tires you run on your car. I assume you think that the Porsche engineers are wrong with that one? Is it not possible that they got it wrong with the oil?
Would I be wrong to assume that a search of this forum would not find you recommending gear oil to others that are not approved specifically by Porsche? And if you did, would you be challenging the competence of the Porsche engineers?
And why do you feel it is ok to recommend 15W50 in the 928 when Porsche does not approve it? Do you know something Porsche doesn't know? I think your comments were
"you got it right! Mobil 1's 15w-50 is NOT approved by Porsche only the 5w-50 version is. It is the ONLY SAE50 oil Porsche Approves. M1 15w-50 should only be used in a consistent ambient down to -15C (0F). These two oils are quite outstanding products and work well in a 928, and in cold weather too use them with confidence."
Have a great New Year Doug.
It is simply amazing to me that when presented with facts, 1999 counters them with ignorance...You are entitled to your opinions for sure but you are not entitled to invent "facts".
Still waiting for your facts that prove mine wrong.
Alot of people who went against the established theories were later proven right. How about ISAAC NEWTON. If he had followed everyone elses theories, we would never had had those wonderful cookies to eat.
Hey 1999,
Do what ever you want, Ok? It's a free country so stick corn syrp in your car but please preface your answers to questions appropriately as IMHO. I often post that I know others will have a different opinion. No big deal to me but your posts sound like you have a PHD in I don't know what
You were asked to read former posts and comment on all of those facts as presented. Go to that oilvis.com or whatever site and tell us why you think this guy is full of it in technical terms that match his or find another technical site that disputes his. I can't. I could come up with "oil sticks better" as you did but that isn't worth the effort to type. Darn it
I just typed that
Now see what has happened here when oil starts flowing
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As an aside - I recently noticed that my trusty '04 VW Passat Wagon now has Mobil1 0W40 specified as one of the oils that meets the latest VW spec for oils.
Here's the VW approved list:
VW have had serious issues with Dino oil, with sludge build-up in some engines - so the list is now 100% synthetic, with a 5k mile change interval.
Interesting that no other Mobil product makes the cut, and no other manufacturer has a 0W40 listed, all others are in fact 5Wxx oils.
Note that VW's
VW 502 00
spec is NOT purely a viscosity spec, in fact they state that many oils with suitable viscosity ratings do not make the cut based on other factors.
No I mean 0w-50. Mobil 1. Standard Fill for the Lotus Elise in Europe, the Mercedes SLR Mclaren worldwide, and on the list of approved oils for the 996.
Oh man, I'm in San Antonio visiting family so I get to this thread today and it is three times the length it was yesterday! I scrambled to crank up the popcorn machine and warm up some carmel (gotta full Porsche1999's request for carmel corn, cuz he jumpstarted this thread
) and plugged the "flash cooler" to get the drinks chilled quickly. Then the circuit breaker trips but I don't realize it and that puts me even farther behind! So anyway, I'm late getting the refreshments to the "party" so now I have to run a "2-fer" special. Get one item free and get the second one a no cost! How's that for a special?
Oh, and I have a question about OIL. Do you guys prefer popcorn that is popped in corn oil or sunflower oil? Or is the "hot air" popping process still the best? I think the latter, because it fits best with this type of thread!
Tim,
Hey man...you "gotta" keep up buddy. Now if you keep slipping like this we are going to have to put someone else on popcorn duty
This one may make it to your PERMANANT RECORD
Crap! I knew I was going to get busted! I was hoping the "court" would cut me a little slack since I was 1,500 miles from home, but you guys are tough!
I even tried to rectify the problem with a 2-for-1 special but obviously that didn't count for much either!
Well, Happy Friggin New Year to you, too!
Tim, I had to make my own popcorn (Microwave junk), since you were gone.
To answer your question, I like popcorn made with oil.........
Feel free to follow the recommendations in your pocorn machine manual, or roll the dice with a custom formulation. Since it's your machine I'll leave the details up to you!!
Personally I prefer to use the unadulterated tear duct oil of virgin Emperor penquins. Once it's fractally distilled it is able to adhere infinitely to engine bearing components even up to 15,000 degrees Kelvin.
Extremely odd that a bird in the Antarctic would produce such a substance, but hey, I'm not making this stuff up.
Is not that the car has 77k+ miles without an oil change. The car has 77k+ miles and I was asking what oil to use but never had the intent to create this commotion.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
