996 potential buyer - not the normal IMS question

Hi All, not sure if I'm allowed in here as i have a 993 But, in my defense, I want a daily driver, and have been looking at either a 996 or a 986 or a 987. I have read so much about the IMS, and the different years which have the different race, and if you should retrofit, or not. One thing surprises me, and that is in all the adverts i have looked at, I have never once seen the title shouting out in bold 'NEW IMS BEARING KIT FITTED AT xxxxxx Miles' I would have thought that was a huge selling point as long as it was documented? So why do you never see this??? Or have i just been missing it Is this because most are being sold by dealers who possibly aren't aware of the issue, or is it just that geeks like me read too much on forums, and the majority of owners buy, drive and sell their 996/986 blissfully unaware of the potential issue, and it's not the major issue my paranoia tells me it is??? Thanks Heidi

I think you're right. If you spend time on the forums you can't escape reading about it - but for the average 996 owner its something they are blissfully ignorant of. I can tell you, when I sell my car, I will be posting that it has the IMS Solution installed. I also believe part of this is that if you ask the dealership about it, they will tell you its not a concern. In fact, I bought mine from a Porsche dealer and there was no mention of the IMSB in the ad and when I asked about it the sales guy kind of brushed off the question saying something to the effect of "if it hasn't failed by now don't worry about it".

Here is my take since I took a lot of time to research and there seem to be a lot of mis-information out there. This is what I found and what I believe is true about IMS. IMS style (model year 2000 and 2005 could be hard to tell which bearing you have as these are change over years and the only way to know for sure is check the flange): 1. 1998-1999: Dual roll bearing and low failure rate 2. 2000-2005: small single roll bearing and high failure rate 3. 2006-2008: Large single roll bearing and low failure rate Replaceable: 1998-2005 can be replaced with trans removed. 2006-2008 can be replaced with the case split or someone would bore the case. (Personally I would never let anyone bore the case just to replace the bearing as preventative measure) Replacement: IMS Solution: The only permanent solution. Install once and done. Oil fed Journal Bearing. IMS retrofit, roller bearing or any other type of bearing with movable parts: A lot of misinformation comes from here. Many believe these is a once and done fix which is why they never note the mileage but these should be treated as maintenance item and replaced based on advertised mileage. Oil fed IMS bearing: some argue this is also a permanent solution but there is a lot of conflicting information. This is what I went by when searching (Pure personal opinion): 1. If 98/99 with original bearing with mileage, leave it alone 2. 2000-2005 replace with IMS Solution (2000 could use the dual roll bearing and 2005 could have the large bearing! Check before decision) 3. Find a reman engine with 06-08 style IMSB and leave it alone 4. for low mileage 98/99 with original bearing, check the flange and have to make some judgement call there but probably replace with IMS solution and be done with it. I ended up finding a 02 with engine replaced by Porsche with a new short block in 2016 and has the large bearing as the 06-08 model.

I have an idea about why you don't see the IMSB mentioned all the time. I may be wrong so more knowledgeable 996 owners can correct me if I'm way off base. I think it's because a vast majority of 996's have not have the bearing changed. I believe the problem actually only affected a very small percentage of cars, and if one is looking at a higher mileage car that has not had the bearing changed, it probably isn't going to fail. I also doubt many non-Porsche dealers selling a 996 even know about it. FYI - I have a 993 and a 996 and admittedly I drive the 996 more. They are nice cars. (Shhhh........Don't tell the 993 Board )

I got the same thing when I did the PPI on my 996 from the dealership. They said don't worry about it and change it on the next major service. I won't wait that long.

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Charlie, You and I are on the same page as I got the same response when I purchased my car. Like you, I installed the IMS Solution and it made the sale of my car last year very easy. Take a picture of the door jam sticker, mention it in the ad and have the documentation to back up the installation. It becomes a non issue and allows for the discussion to be about the entire car.

My '03 C4S is a Tip and never had IMS or RMS done and it was just in for service and my guy said not to worry about it. It would have failed already at this mileage (83k) if it was going to do so, so I drive it worry-free. Just my take.

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I also have a 993 and 996 - they're both wonderful cars. Most 996's are sold by folks who don't frequent the Rennlist echo chamber. Also, most with a recent IMSB procedure were probably done on the cheap and likely should be avoided. If you find one that has been replaced recently, make sure it's fully documented with a full pre-qualification prior to the prodecure to lesson the risk that the seller is just masking a problem to flip the car. If you take the same informed approach to buying a 996 that you would do for a 993 (or any other 15+ year old performance car) then you should be good to go. Enjoy the hunt!

1) I take anything a tech or dealer says with a major grain of salt, and don't treat it like gospel. I won't generalize, but not all of them know as much as many serious enthusiasts about patterns in the 996 population. 2) I've been looking for a nice C4S (seal grey, black interior, if you have one for sale...) for a while, and I have seen several ads that mention an updated IMSB. I wouldn't say it is commonplace, but I see it occasionally. More often in enthusiast/private sales, but at least two 996 at dealers have mentioned it in their ads. 3) I personally don't give bonus points or pricing consideration for a claim of a replacement bearing, even if documented. 4) I assume that I will need (ok, want) to do the IMS bearing and factor that into my thinking about overall price. I've got the toolkit for the LN retrofit setup, so I figure it is roughly a $600 expense for any car with a replaceable (without splitting the cases) bearing. 5) Exception: If a car had a LN certified installer do the LN Solution after prequalification , and it had documentation/receipts , I would definitely pay a premium. 6) If I bought a particularly mint car, and it was relatively low mileage, I'd consider spending the money on the LN Solution (assuming I will plan to keep it for a while and don't want to do bearings every couple of years). 7) It's hard to know what the consensus is, but when I'm driving, the last thing I care about is the IMSB (or any other wear item). Those worry beads are for long winter snow days surfing rennlist.

For a daily driver I would go with a 986, the reason being the engines are a little more reliable with thicker cylinder walls and less horsepower and stress Even if it does go bang a used 986 engine is much much cheaper than a 996 motor

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Sure, just be careful, someone might steal it in this neighborhood. RE: Your question: I think another issue behind what you're finding is that the 996 was produced in much greater numbers than the 911's that came before it, therefore, more people buying it as a "cool car" and not a "911." Most used car dealers are probably looking at a 15+ year old sports car on their lot thinking to themselves "A lot is probably wrong with it, but I want to know about none of it ." If you are able to find enthusiast groups in the UK akin to our own Porsche Club of America, you may find member cars for sale that come with a more complete history, if that's what you're after. Keep in mind, the IMS is only the most well publicized of all of the M96 engine issues. An issue that we come across quite frequently in the states are "enthusiast" sellers that proudly state that they "Replaced the IMS bearing in 2010!" which means it's overdue for a change, anyway. Thanks, guy! Most of us end up swapping the bearing no matter what for our own neurotic peace of mind. Good luck with your hunt, hope you find a fun little driver for your B roads.

Thanks for all your replies, Wealth of information and food for thought. I think possibly the thing I take from this is that originally I thought having the IMS addressed was something to look out for, Maybe a better plan would be to aim to look for a car that is untouched with a view to having it done, then at least i'd know who did it. or even go for a 997/87, as they look more like mine (in the headlamp department)!!! Now if i could only work out how to change the profile picture

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Don't know about knowledge 996 owners, but I have owned mine since 2006 and still have the original IMSB(and clutch) with 76,000 mi.on my '99 996. I do believe in regular oil and filter changes, and dissecting the filter for signs of metal /or plastic pieces. No one knows for sure, but many are now saying the percentage is pretty low for failures of the IMSB.

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I wouldn�t change that profile picture, looks great! Regarding headlights, if you�ve got one with round headlights allready, why get another one?? Not kidding though; those headlights grow on you and you�ll find yourself liking them!

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Best information and advice coming from rogazilla.

For a seller who has not replaced it - then they will tell you it's meaningless, most Porsche and used car dealers will say this. For the private seller who has replaced it, they will tell you it was done pro-actively, and not make a big deal because of the accusation that the bearing was replaced on failure, and the engine was seconds from exploding. Any discussion of the IMSB results in wary buyers, so it's like the crazy uncle who pees in the flower bed.

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Thanks - I actually figured it out how to upload the image half an hour after i posted that Now i need to make it bigger like everyone elses

I'd be more concerned about cylinders tapering and scoring than the big bad IMS boogey man.

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One mistake/misleading fact on IMS(B) style, on point # 1&2 - they changed over to the single row bearing, from the dual row bearing some time in 2000 during the run of M96/04 engines...Early M96/04's had dual row bearings (my engine is # M96/04 66103432 - it had the dual row IMSB - it's now got the dual row Solution)

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you are correct! I am editing my original post to reflect the change over year is 2000, not 1999.

I have a 2000 996 factory custom built car (GT3 Replica) had no issue with IMS, have checked engine number and its a dual row IMS. Car on a smidge under 100k. If real seal decides to fail might change if I am bored that weekend, or if my oil tests come back dodgy ofc.

" I have a 2000 996 factory custom built car (GT3 Replica) had no issue with IMS, have checked engine number and its a dual row IMS." Engine #'s have little to nothing to do with what IMS(B) - that would be the bearing, not the IMS itself - is in the car. In other words - don't be so sure unless you drop the transmission and look at the IMSB flange. The rear main seal (even if leaking) is a MUCH less important issue than the IMSB. I believe the only reason it gets any attention, is that if it leaks, it shows outwardly at the same spot as the IMSB (no way to tell the difference without dropping the tranny).

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This^^^ but for resale I will have mine done at some point. I happen to have a certified IMS mechanic 8 miles from me and will be done.