Tire Opinions- Potenza RE750's vs. Eagle F1 GS-D3"s

Looking for a little guidance here. I'm putting new rubber on and am considering the two tires above after researching treadware, noise, wet/dry grip, and performance for a daily dirver. Any have anygood comparison info between the two? They are roughly the same price and neither is "N" rated, though not a big deal to me for my purposes. Thanks in advance! Nick

Nick, why would having a N spec tires not be a big deal for your purposes? The N spec tires are designed specifically for your car and it is the one place you DON'T want to skimp or deviate from. Remember the only thing keeping you connected to the road is your tires. I sure hope the reason isn't money.

Potenza without hesitation. Of all the tires I have run (on all my cars) this is a great tire in wet or dry. Relatively quiet and ribbed. Traction will not be a concern with these.

Dell- I guees I'll ask the question back... Why WOULD I absolutley go with "N" spec for a car that doesn't get tracked and whose primary function is a 50-50 combo of aroud town and highway driving? I also need v. good wet traction. I completely understand that stock and spec are N-rated, but I'm a little too much of a novice to understand why that would be a huge issue. At this point, I'm just following the advice of a few tire shops, including Tire Rack, who've said that, for my purposes, non "N" tires would be absolutely fine and give me better wear. Also, through searching here and other boards, it seems that there are quite a few of us running non "N" tires out there- both of the aforementioned included- with very good reviews and results. Sure, price is less and, if they have to be replaced with less frequency, they're much cheaper to run. But you are correct, price isn't a factor in the matter if there truly is a major reason to go with the "N" tires. I'm not trying to argue a point here, more trying to derive the best information possible. Please chime in with info. Thx!

Totally know that you are not trying to argue just want to make sure you understand the difference as well as thinking about how much you are really saving (or are you) after you you need to replace the non-N spec tires. Here is a great article to get you on your way: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...currentpage=62

Thanks Dell. I'm going to do a little more research. Looks like the Pirelli's and PS Rib's are available, but I'm really not a fan of either due to wear issues and noise on previous cars. Just from a Devil's advocacy stance, anyone experience any real issues driving non-N's?

There's no reason you MUST have an N rated tire. There's plenty of tires that aren't on the OEM list that are suitable for a 996, including the Toyo Proxes and Yokohama AVS Sport.

Nick , What about the S02's - I have on my second set - I got 20K + miles before I had to change my rears, awesome rain tire.

Put on what ever fits....its just a tire, they all wear out , its just a tire dammit

Nick, RE750 is a *way* better choice for your car than F1-GSD3...

Thanks for the replies, guys! RJM- Hello Amigo! I owe you some pics but it's not *quite* ready for them yet. On the way, though, I promise. After reading up some more, talking with another couple of tire places, and reading your replies, I think that I'm going to order the RE750's tomorrow. Unfortunately, no one local has them stocked so it looks like it will be week's end before they arrive. However, it still leaves about 12 hours before I can finalize this so anyone that can convince me otherwise, have it it

for the $$$ I don't think you can beat them... unless you want to go for TOYO T1-R of course... also a great tire, new technology... but slightly faster wearing.

I'm running S-03's on my car and I'm loving them. I don't think they're N-rated either.

Nick, I bought my 996 (used) almost a year ago, and then spent a long time researching tire choices to replace the cheap ones it came with. The result was the recent mounting of a set of the Eagle F1's (18") you are considering. I couldn't be happier. I do not track my car, either .... daily driver and highway trips with my wife. In addition to wet/dry traction, road noise was important to me, as the roar I was hearing from the original tires was not a pleasant way to cruise in a car I bought strictly for pleasure. Consumer Reports, whom I consider to be neutral and reliable, rated the Eagle F1 very high for wet & dry traction .... a little lower for noise .... a good compromise. N rating .... I don't consider to be a factor. By sheer chance, I was in Zuffenhausen and visited the big Porsche Zentrum dealer adjacent to the factory just prior to making my decision. A lengthy discussion with the staff there led me to understand that N-rating is an "after the fact blessing" of a tire, as opposed to the oft assumed sign of "made to order for Porsche". A salesman went to a new car and pulled out the owner's manual. He pointed out that: (1) it only mentions N rating in the context of matching mounted sets of the same N-rating. (2) it specifically mentions buying non-Porsche recommended tires and simply reminds one to buy from a reputable dealer and adhere to the specified quality (speed, traction, wear, etc) ratings. Bottom line of the discussion, the use of N-rated tires is not seen by Porsche as a requirement in any way. This has been skewed somewhat by a deal between Michelin and US Porsche dealers to have the dealers as exclusive outlets for some Michelin N-rated tires .... thus assuring a recommendation from the dealer that "you must use N-rated tire". Lest anyone get the wrong idea. A set of Eagle F1's does not represent a savings when compared to Michelins, Bridgestone, etc. I paid well over $1000 for a set. Its about finding the right tire for your needs / preferences / driving style. Ironically, the very first N-rated tire was a Goodyear. I love my Eagles, and the quiet, very stable ride they have given me in high speed cruising and heavy traffic commuting.

Kim, I have the exact same car as you. Be certain to get back to us with some more feedback on the Goodyears when you have accumulated a bit more mileage. Like you, I have been considering those tires as well. A lot of extremely involved drivers have been recommending these to me of late. Indeed, and I am loath to say this, Corvette owners have been fanatics of these tires for years. Edward

I have had F1 GS-D3�s on my car since April. I have put approximately 8k miles on the tires in daily driving and out of town trip driving situations. Over all I think these are great daily driver tires. Especially if driving in the rain is a factor. I can not comment on ultimate dry grip as I have not had them on the track. There are some logical arguments that the tire may not offer the best ultimate grip because of the amount of rubber in contact with the surface in the contact patch because of the aggressive tread design�.maybe so. However, in daily driving and aggressive street driving situations I have never thought I wanted or needed more grip. In the wet the tires are in a word excellent. The grip is fantastic in the wet with rock solid stability which has caused me to completely forget what hydroplaning is or feels like. I don�t find the ride any harsher than any other summer only tire. Wear characteristics have been fantastic. The previous Continental SportContacts wore out very quickly with the rears being completely shot after 8k miles. At this point I see the F1�s making it too the 16k+ mark before the rears will need replaced. Road noise is good not great. I have found the tires to produce a rather noticeable hum/whine/roar on certain concrete road surfaces (not all concrete surfaces though). In general they are average for a summer high performance tire for noise because on certain concrete surfaces they definitely produce noise and have done this since day one. There are certain sections of the roads I drive I notice them�and I did not notice the noise on the Continentals (this the only good thing I can say about the Continentals).. I find the F1's very stable at all the speeds I have driven them and they don�t exhibit any more or less tendency to tramline than any other high performance tire. I think the combination of wear and wet weather traction make them an excellent tire for daily and trip driving duties.

If I remember correctly, a similar post by you in a much older thread played a part in my decision. I agree that the road noise grade would be "good" as opposed to "great" ... but these tires had the advantage of my comparing them (in actual experience) only to their cheap predecessors. Supporting your observation, in Consumer Reports, only the Conti scored better for noise among ultra high performace tires. I also have experienced the increase in noise on certain concrete surfaces. The difference when then transitioning back to asphalt interstate is dramatic. As for prospective mileage, I have so far accumulated approx 5K, with no noticeable wear at all ... all street and highway driving.

I really don't have any appreciable wear either (actually it amazes me). By far these tires have shown the best wear characteristics of any high performance tire I have used. However, I have to admit that I am just waiting for a point for the tire wear to increase dramatically and that is why I indicated a conservative 16k wear limit. If the wear rate during the first 8k miles is linear I would say they are easily a 25k+ mile tire but I just can't see that (or just have a hard time comprehending it) as I have never had a tire last longer than 15k on any Porsche I have owned.

Is your car in warranty? I had the N-tire discussion with the service writer (whom I trust) at my dealership and he said that mounting a non N tire could lead to a warranty issue from Porsche if the car experienced a failure that could be attributed to the tire. Just something to consider if it applies in your case. The service guy also said the dealership's experience with non N tires had been some were fine, others didn't seem to handle as well so they wouldn't install a non N tire. The dealer also wouldn't install a RoW sport suspension owing to a lack of DOT approval, so perhaps they're erring on the side of caution...............

Not to be disrespectful of any fine members here, but my N-rated ContiSports were by far the worst tire I've had in almost every category. I was also not overly impressed with my N-rated PZero Assims. I would rate them comparable in grip to my RE750s but obviously inferior in price/wear/ride. The RE750s are a very new compound and surprised me by being about 97% of my S-03s for a lot less $ and a lot more mileage. I was very impressed. I also have Dunlop R-compounds which offer fanstastic grip on the street, but stiff, a little noisy, and a treadwear rating of 60. From my experience, of the 5 tires I've run, "overall", the N-rateds were the worst. Go for the RE750s if mileage/value is a concern!

Arenared, Here here on your comment about the Contisports. They have come stock on my last two Porsches and they are by far the worst tire I have ever used. Bar none. They sound awful, stick less well than a round pad of butter, and have a pretty ugly tread to boot. All of the other premium tires that I have used in the past (BF Goodrich Comp T/A KRad, Bridgestone S-03 PP, Dunlop SP Sport 800 and D40 M2) have all been better. And to add fuel to the fire, the Michelin Pilots weren't such great shakes either. Frankly, I haven't tried the RE750s so I cna't comment, but I AM ANXIOUS to give these new Goodyears a shot. Yes, they may not be a track effort, but damn that tread looks super efficient.

I will disrespect some members here. N tire rating is overrated. Look there is no such thing as a N rated DOT track tire and thoes tire will out handle any N rated tire. I'm not saying that a N tire is not a great tire and most of them like the Pilot Sport is probably better the F1 in handling. The point is that a non N tire is not going to harm your car. Some people are just too **** about the rating. IMO as long as you're buying a tire from a major manufacture like Goodyear or Bridgestone (Pepboys ) you are gonna have a fine tire. Sure if you're tracking the car get the best grip available or if you just like OE tires then get them. A good tire like the S03, F1, or RE750 will do fine. FWIW I have not used RE750, but have used the F1 on another car and compared with the S03 its a better tire for daily driving. I think the F1 is quiter and nicer riding then the S03. I do think the S03 has good grip as I used them on my old 911 doing some DE runs.

jetskied, the F1 you are referring to is the Eagle F1 and *not* the F1-GSD3 correct?

no the GSD3. FWIW the F1 Supercar on the Corvettes I driven are noiser then the GSD3.

Car and Driver Dec 2005 has a test of 11 max performance tires tested on a BMW 3 series and the winner was the GSD3. I'm not saying it is the best tire, but it for sure is not an inferior tire to use on a Porsche unlike like some who thinks its junk just because its not N rated.

I ended up going with the RE750's. Pretty happy so far, but it's only been a couple days. Will post some more opinions after putting a few miles on them. Can't beat the Tirerack price, though, for a daily driver with supposed solid performance and decent treadlife. We'll see...

that's surprising... what issue of C& D was that.... GSD3 has a very weak sidewall so I don't know how your steering response would be... was Toyo T1-R part of the test?

I've had the RE-750's on my car since I've owned it and they rock. A killer tire for the $$$$. When I bought my car with 29kmiles on it, the dealer had put on a new set of RE 750s. Car now has 54k miles.... rears were just replaced and fronts still have about 50% life in them yet. I should mention that I have a separate set of tires for the track... and on the street I don't drive like a maniac. t

I don't drive like a maniac either; triple digit speed is achieved effortlessly and with control on the streets of Manhattan. Ha!

On the N rated issue, when I asked my dealership service advisor about tire recommendations, he gave me several non-N recommendations. Only issue he brought up was if the car is leased (mine is not), they want N-rated tires on the car when it is returned.

Check out the latest addition of Car and Driver. They have a comparison of high performance tires. The F1 GS-D3 came in first.

well I'll say this much... on individual reviews on tirerack.com people have complained that the sidewall strength of the GS-D3 is not all there... and turn in is very poor; on the other hand this has been teh *only* complaint... I'll have to take a look at the review and see what the criteria was...

Interesting, I have gone through this same decision. I just now found this thread. I bought a used 986S with RE750s on it. With 22k miles in front and 7k miles on the rears. I thought they were a little old in the front, so I was thinking of just replacing those. But I thought I was not to happy with the RE750s. So I was researching new tires. So today I put on the GY F1 GS D3. I have not been able to get much time on them yet. But I can say lane changes or quick steering response shows a lag from front to back. There may be some truth to the less stiff sidewall. To soon to tell, but I need to get say 250-500 miles on them before I decide if I like them. Its also cold here in Charlotte, NC and I need to go check the tire pressures. When it is a little warmer I will drive it around and tweek the tire pressures. They were quieter than the RE750s and the ride was smoother. Probably better tires, but new tires versus old tires convolute the subjectiveness. I do want a good wet performance tire and the GS D3 should deliver. I got them from a local Discount Tire. I buy all my tires from them for the street and my Hoosier R3S05 track tires. They give me great deals and I have a 30 day test drive. If I don't like them, I can get some thing else. If I don't, I may splurge for Mich PS2s.

I've put a good number of miles on my Goodyears since I posted. My impression of them is very good in all areas which are important to me. Since this thread was initiated, Car & Driver has, as someone pointed out, done a test of 11 high performance tires with the help of Tire Rack (loaned the test bed BMWs). The F1 GS D3 came in first place, hands down, with the Conti Sport Contact 2 in second. They apparently loved this tire. You can read all about it in the current, December, issue. They summarized: "As an all around high performance tire, you can't beat this Goodyear. It was the best performer in all three wet-track tests and was very competent in the dry. It generally obtained 0.94 g on the dry skidpad, only .01 g off the first place BF Goodrich ..." "There were tires that performed better in the dry, but the Eagle wasn't far off. It was a little less precise than the BFG and Yokohama on a dry track, but not by much".

I just ended up buying a set of tires quicker than I would have liked because I would like to have researched more. I got a damaged sidewall on one tire that couldnt' be fixed and I had to make a choice.. My only choices were the Pirrellis which I just don't like - they tramline too much for me, and another set which I couldn't find anything out about.. Mastercraft Avengers ( made by Cooper ). My local performance tire shop swears by them. What I asked for was a good all weather tire ( I'm in Colorado and drive all the time regardless of weather apart from when it's deep snow. ) I was very hesitant about these, but had to get something so I decided to just go for it.. I have to admit that one of the reasons I decided to just go for it was the tread.. it's kinda sexy ;-) http://www.sportcompactonly.com/imag...s/100089-l.jpg Well so far so good. VERY little tramlining, no more noise than I had with the pirellis and they really do feel sure footed. I haven't really pushed them, but have to say that I'm pretty happy. $800 for the set, fitted with insurance. Keith

Well, they look cool in the picture, and that's a great price, so please keep us posted as you have a chance to experience treadwear, noise, and performance.

Figured I'd update my original post. Decided on the RE750's. Had the 750's about a month now and have put a few thousand miles on them. So far, I'm very impressed. Treadwear hasn't been noticable at all. Sidewalls have been strong. Roadnoise has been minimal. Grip has been excellent in some VERY wet and slightly icey weather. Overall, I've been extremely happy.

Slightly icey? I don't mean to offend but driving RE750's (or any summer only tire for that matter) in wintery conditions is very dangerous. The rubber compounds of these tires turn hockey puck hard and lose most if not all of their performance and grip in temperatures below 45 degrees F. Add ice, water or even damp road conditions and you just asking to put the car in a ditch or around a telephone pole. The ability to stop, turn and/or make avoidance maneuvers is greatly reduced in the cold and even more reduced with the addition of just water�.add snow or ice....forgetaboutit. Get dedicated winter compound tires for driving in these conditions

Brian, You're spot on. On my conti summers last year, I got stranded twice during quick breaking snow storms. In cold and snowy environs, there is just no argument for not putting winter tires on one's car unless it stays garaged most of the season. Indeed, the reduction in traction even on sunny but cold winter days on my still-earing-summer-tires Pcar was noticeable. I'm not a safety freak (read, I like to drive and ride hard), but I decided not to take any more chances this year. (In truth, my girlfriend was behind most of the conviction because she was with me one of the times as we were stranded on the side of I-95...you guys can't believe how many looks we got from drivers going by with that who-the-hell-tries-to-drive-a-Porsche-in-this-weather-expression on their faces...I guess now you guys know just who that guy was).

I put the GYs on a few months ago. I thought they were a bit squirelly at first but after a few hundred miles they smoothed out. I am very happy with them, much more so than the Contis they replaced. A question tho on the post above, are these goodyear F! GSD3 tires considered to be ineffective in cold temperatures. I'm in ATL and it doesn't get cold too oftern, but it is right now and periodically gets cold during the winter months. The 968 has Toyo T1S' and I like them as well. I suppose its really the tread pattern that sold me, but both tires are much better than the Contis IMGO, N rating ot not. I have 2 extra sets of wheels so maybe I should buy a set of winter tires just in case?

SMShirk, I used to live in Atlanta, and you can generally make it through the season with your summer tires. The few times that it snowed there doesn't really justify the cost of switching over, particularly if you have a second vehicle. But, if you really want to be safe, at around $750 bucks, you can buy some tires that you mount on the car in the winter. The driving is not that much worse, and frankly, if the temps really get down to freezing, the traction is vastly improved over the softer (and more prone to hardening) rubber compound of summer tires. Of course, this late in the season, good luck find winter tires. It's such a hassle; the time to buy is October. Mark your calendar. (Great quote in your signature by the way; Ayn Rand is one of my favorites and that line from Atlas Shrugged takes me back a couple years when I last read it)

SMShirk, To expand on Edward's comments... You can drive the car in the cold with the F1 GSD3�s but they will not be as effective as during the summer. When the temperature is cold, the stopping distance will be increased (you more than likely will notice more ABS intervention in quick/emergency stopping situations) and the grip level for cornering will be decreased. Basically more care should be taken and aggressive driving should be avoided. In the wet with the cold is when you will start to really see the decrease in performance as the overall grip level is really decreased as compared to summer temperatures. This does not mean the car is not drivable but it does mean that the normal performance envelope is drastically decreased and that aggressive driving should be avoided at all cost. You will notice the biggest difference in stopping. Even under normal driving you may notice some ABS intervention however, in general this is usually not an issue however, in emergency stopping situation realize the distance required is greatly increased and there will much more ABS and/or PSM action. Also breaking in a corner or while trying to make quick maneuvers at speeds as low as 30 mph can much more easily result in complete lost of traction and/or more drastic ABS and/or PSM intervention. Caution should be used in the speeds on sharp corners or on ramps. In snow�.not safe at all�don�t try it. Ice�ditto with an even greater don�t try it. Sleet or freezing rain is also extremely treacherous.

I attended an advanced driver track day at Shannonville (near Toronto On) last week. It was my first rain day in 5 years and I was extremely impressed with my Goodyear F1 GSD3's...stuck like glue. Of course, lap 1 on a slow speed 90 degree corner, I just about understeered into the grass...too used to the dry line at this track I guess...it poured all day. I must say, track days in the rain are a lot of fun....smooth driving is rewarded. As usual, Pfaff Porsche and Apex Driver Training put on a well run event....very nice fellow drivers as well.

The issue with "N" spec tires is warranty. If your car is under original bumper-to-bumper or CPO they can deny certain claims if you don't have "N" rated tires. Yes, you can bring up the Magnuson act; but Porsche response is that the suspension components (bushings, springs, bumpstops, etc.) were exactly tuned to the characteristics of these tires. They have plenty of documentation to back it up. Deviating from this spec make cause additional wear on components. Porsche has already proven their position in court. If you are not under warranty, I would say the GS-D3's between these 2. I don't understand if you are looking at Bridgestone's that you are not looking at the RE-050 than the RE-750. The RE050 is the replacement for the S02 and S03 tires that are ending production. It is a better tire and has an "N" rating.

I had GS-D3's on my Boxster S. Awsum in the wet, great on the dry. Loved 'em. Oh, and they looked cool as hell.

I had GS-D3's on my Boxster S. Awsum in the wet, great on the dry. Loved 'em. Oh, and they looked cool as hell. Wanted them for my new 911 C4S, but they don't make that size for the rears, so I got Yok. AVS Sports. Look almost as cool, seem to stick nicely, but loud-as-hell.

I currently have S03's on my car & need new rears, would the RE050 be good on the back if I still have S03's on the front? I have called Discount to get a price on the RE050's & they did not show it in a 285/30-10...only the SO3's.

I prefer the 750 myself, but the GS-D3 has its merits too. I think overall ratings on the 750 are the best for Porsche use. As far as N-spec goes, there's no reason you HAVE to put N spec tires on the car. Honestly, most people would never see the difference between the two. If you'd like to read more about it, follow up at: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=26

These question are mostly directed to Damon at Tire Rack. I have an '01 996 coupe that came with Pirellis P-Zero and I stayed with them until it was time to replace all 4 finally. I got the PS2 Michelins on all 4 corners and they have been awesome. The rears lasted an amazing 27k miles, let alone other benefits, and I just had them replaced with PS2 again. The rears are 265/35YR18 with a Service Description of 97Y. In looking at your specs for these PS2 on your website, they refer to these as XL (extra load) and having a maximum load of 1609 lbs. Compared to the O.E. Michelin Pilot Ribs which are N-rated, the same size rear tire has a maximum load of 1433lbs. which corresponds to a 93 serv.desc. Question #1 is would'nt this mean that the sidewalls on the PS2 Michelins on this size have a stiffer sidewall than the O.E. Michelin pilot sport which is N-rated, since they have a higher maximum load (1603 vs. 1433 lbs.)? Question #2 is: what does the SL designation in front of the N1 means for the O.E Michelin pilot rib, as seen in the spec page of your website?

Chago, N1 is for the 17" wheel, N2 is for the 18" wheel. Of course, it's not always size dependent. N-ratings that get higher simply mean the latest iteration of the tire. As for your questions on load, it has more to do with performance. Harder is not always better, though your logic seems somewhat sound. ZX9, As for the Bridgestones, they make a RE050A Pole Position that will fit the 285 rears.

They do make them. There are 3 different lines for the RE050. There is the RE050, RE050A and RE050A Pole Position. They make 285/30-18's in the RE050A Pole Position. I also have S03's. They have great grip wet or dry. They only lack in ride and wear. I don't believe there will be a problem running these in back with S03's in front. If your car is like mine, you probably go through 2 sets of rears for every sets of fronts. I ended picking up a set of rear S03's off e-bay because no one seemed to be able to get them. I would have gone with the RE050A PP's instead if I could not get a couple more S03's.

Thanks for the info! Where can I get info telling me the basic pro's & con's (or can you) between the "RE050, RE050A and RE050A Pole Position" & the SO3's? TIA, - Cam

Another point is that just because a tire is N-rated doesn't mean that it is N-rated for your car.

Right on.