ROW: Aftermarket vs. official Porsche

Hey all, I am planning on getting ROW suspension put on my 2000 C2. Do any of you have any recommendations as far as getting aftermarket vs. official from Porsche? Does the aftermarket technically ruin the "stock" of the car?

Depends on what you want? Are you going to spend a lot of time on the track? If no, I would go with ROW 030. While the aftermarket is great on the track, its not so great on the road. Some like the PSS9, coilovers, if you must go aftermarket.

In a word, OEM.

Incorrect...PSS9 is BETTER on the street than ANY Porsche suspension stock, ROW, X73/X74....whatever.

I just finished installing a Porsche ROW M030 Sports suspension on my 2002 C2 Cab. Here is a link to the details. Just remember, for the best combination of handling and ride, always look for the Green Dot! That is the mark of a Porsche ROW Sports Suspension.

I installed the RoWM030 on my 996CAB and my tracck experience is fantastic!!! And on the street the ride actually much better than the old stock suspension. I wouldn't hesitate to rec'd the RoW kit to anyone.

Dell: How much lower did your ROW 030 end up being? and how long did it take? Since my install is brand new, it is only 5 mm lower.

Did you try the search feature? This topic has been beaten to death!

Orient, you've got the cleanest suspension I've ever seen! You gotta drive that thing more.

OE....mine settled to about 15R/20F with a margin of error of maybe 2-3mm plus or minus. Forgot the exact numbers but I posted them some time ago.

I disagree. From my experiences with a 993 the PSS-9 are a good compromise for track and street use but are not the better street set up for mostly street driving. I think PSS-9s offer the ability for someone to crank up the stiffness for occasional track use and then provide a softer setting that is a less harsh ride than a dedicated track suspensions. But, the soft settings do not have the synergistic feel, control and togetherness of the factory suspensions. I feel the PSS-9�s lean towards track use. I know the track junkies will scoff at that comment and I don�t disagree that the PSS-9�s are not the best track choice and that there are better choices. In fact, that is my point. They are not the best choice and there are better choices (i.e. factory) for street driving. Suspension evaluations are very subjective so I would recommend that you attempt to ride in some vehicles with the set ups you are interested in. Don't get me wrong, the PSS-9's are a nice but to claim they offer a better ride on the street than all the factory suspension is disingenuous. I would equate them to all season tires. They offer both a track and a street ride but are not the best at either, similar to how all season tires offer both summer and winter traction but dedicated summer high performance tires and snow tires are a better for the conditions they are intended. For mostly street use you have to seriously consider the OEM set ups.

I agree with Brian (surprise, surprise), but the other part of the initial post dealt with deminished value of a car with an aftermarket suspension vs oem. As a rule mods reduce the value of a car and significantly narrow the field of prospective future buyers. Personally, I would, and have, passed on cars with aftermarket mods.

Yeah, I agree, I only have 46,000 miles on the car!

Chris is spot on with his aftermarket/OEM issue. I am dealing with this right now. Dealer is completely uniterested in the car with the aftermarket gear. My only issue with the OEM, is that Porsche does not offer a, x73/74 option for a 2001 C4. If they had, there is NO WAY I would have gone for the aftermarket coilovers.

Is it better to use aftermarket with 19's or to use ROW's?

>>>Incorrect...PSS9 is BETTER on the street than ANY Porsche suspension stock, ROW, X73/X74....whatever.<<< How did you come to this conclusion? I concur with opting for OEM when a suitable application exists. It's almost crazy not to. Some folks will disagree, but believe it or not, the engineers at Porsche actually have a clue or two about what they're doing. At least more of a clue than virtually all of us. P.S. Damn dude! The cleanliness of your suspension is unbelievable!

I would say that is better not to use 19" wheels on a 996 period. Not only do they look silly, the ride and handling degradation is such that the car is not enjoyable as a street car. The 997 is another issue, as it was engineered for the massive unsprung weight that 19" wheels have. The 996 was designed for 17 and 18 inch wheels, and to be honest, if I had it to do over again, I would have outfitted my cab with 17" wheels and tires with a taller sidewall. There are great tires out there from Michelin and the others that have very good sidewall stiffness, but have better ride qualities than the 18" wheels and tires that I have now. In fact may racers go faster with the smaller rims. And you will thank yourself for the smaller rims the first time you hit a big pothole. As far as suspensions, I have yet to see an aftermarket part that is as good as the OEM parts, with the exception of the tier 2 manufacturers that supply Porsche in the first place. This would include Continental, ZF-Sachs, Koni, and Bilstein. But the bottom line is that unless you plan on using the car as a track car, stay within the stock rim sizes, and pick the M030 suspension retrofit kit. Cost is about equal, but the value is superior.

I came to the conclusion after riding in a car with ROW M030 and driving my car with PSS9's....BEFORE the car was bumpy, had vague steering and understeer....It was not a "smooth" ride by any means. This was on a stock suspension, and the handling was far from crisp. With my PSS9's set fairly soft....I commute 100 miles round trip everyday without the bone jarring of other lowered suspensions, I have lost the understeer and vagueness, and it LOOKS much better. Just my opinion. By the way I have my stock suspension and if I ever sell my car it goes back on and I sell my PSS9's for 2K....(Less than I paid new.....)

Ok, I think I'll pull the switch for the ROW M030 suspension. Any idea on pricing? Thanks guys

For my 2000 996CAB the RoWM030 was $1K shipped from Sunset (Oregon). I then paid another $600 for install and alignment.

As much as we love those 19s.. and we do, the geometry on the 996 is just wrong for 19s

Pricing for a M030 sports suspension is between $1000 and $1100. Install costs are about 4-5 hours for someone doing it for a living (take your favorite shops labor rate and multiply for the cost), 6 or 7 if you do it yourself, take your time and enjoy the DIY. 4-Wheel alignment is about $150. Here is what is in the retrofit kit.

Orient, you're spot on for a 2WD car... not for an AWD car though gotta pull a few more things apart on those in the front

Thanks guys...some calls will be made tomorrow....

Tell me about it, I got 1/2 way thru it and bailed, not something I usually do. just don't like messing with that front diff. BTW, always reset your streering angle sensor when lowering a awd car, esp C4S/TT. Yetis, I agree 100% with you, but I think one could get away with an x74 on a '01 C4 due to themore rigid frame. Are you trading in your car?

I am seriously thinking about it. I drive my car a lot less these days, and very little during the winter months. Like we discussed on 6speed, I am looking into a GT3. Just cannot decide if I want a 996 or 997. Either way, the JIC's are gone. I just cannot do it anymore, they make the GT3 seem like a soft ride!

Orient, Where did you purchase the parts? I spoke to a pretty cool tech who told me I would be better off purcahsing the parts and having him do the install. I also think I am going to go with the Billstein shocks. I am not really a technical guy when it comes to car parts, unfortunately.

http://e-partssales.com/Merchant2/me..._Code=996sport i am thinking about putting this in myself....

Wow!!! That whole page worth of mods? You da man

Sun Coast Porsche is a good place to order parts, or at least get the right part numbers to negotiate with your local dealer. The problem with buying heavy parts like exhaust or Suspension kits is that the shipping will be rather expensive. I bought the ROW 030 retrofit kit from my local Porsche dealer at the same price that Sun Coast quotes, and after tax it was actually cheaper. Most dealers will price match, so I would visit your local dealer first, show them your best price, and ask them to beat it. 9 out of 10 times they will at least match it, and may even beat the advertised price. Parts is a very competitive business. As another note, the OEM shocks in the Porsche sports suspension are sourced from Bilstein.

C4S Surgeon, I hear ya man... 2WD cars come in and out faster here than those pesky AWD ones And you're 100% right on the sensor:P

Have to disagree on that one.....especially since the parts department here at my local dealer (Gaudin Porsche) will not do anything to disount parts. Matter of fact, alot of their parts are marked ABOVE retail. I ordered my RoWM030 from Sunset Porsche in Oregon and got the following deal: Cost: $846.34 15% Handling $126.96 Total $973.30 Shipping $33.00 Total to my door shipped $1006.30

One more heavy part.....bought my PSE for 1495 and 1525 total shipped ($30 shipping). Not bad if you ask me.

So the moral of the story is that you are a lousy negotiator?

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But seriously, Gaudin Porsche is the one just off of Rainbow and Sahara in LV, and I have bought lots of stuff there (mainly for by brother that lives there) and always got at least 15-20 points off of retail. Las Vegas is well, Las Vegas, and for many folks there money is not an issue, and like any good capitalist Gaudin is more than happy to take advantage of that. But for me, haggling is an honorable skill, and as a point of pride I never pay retail.

Then.....you really are da man! They will NOT negotiate crap with me. I do get the customary 10% PCA discount which brings ti back to full retail And I have bought 2 p-cars from them in the 4 years I have been here. My sales guy and my SA have both let me know on several occasions that parts is a seperate entity there and operate as such. So while my salesman and SA really treat me well I can't say the same for parts. When I leave I might just drop the 30K worth of receipts from OTHER vendors I have purchased through over the 4 years to show them the money they missed out on!

Dell, that is a GREAT idea! I would love to see the look on the General Manager's face when he sees those receipts. DO IT... DO IT... DO IT... DO IT... DO IT... !!!

Dell, I think Orient Express is wrong. You really are a good negotiator. I know for a fact that you recently got free "out-bound" shipping on your OLD exhaust cans!

Dell: I would recommend that you talk to the manager of the parts department, and show him the 30K worth of sales they lost, and then pay a courtesy visit to the GM there to discuss the issue with him as well. I must say that yours is not the first story that I have heard about LV dealers telling their customers to "take it or leave it". Maybe in the old days when LV was out in the middle of nowhere they were the only game, but not anymore.

The dealers on LI are just as bad with prices, always order suncoast or braman. My shipping on the X73 was 110$ from germany, kit 1695, 750 install/align, braman porsche. The local dealer wanted 3800$ for just the kit.

I was just quoted $2300.00 for a ROWM030 from Sunset for my 04 C2. Can there be that much of a difference?????

Yup. Check Carnewal for the ROW M030 kit. Carnewal $1213 with the current exchange rate.

Sunset or Suncoast? That price makes absolutely no sense. Did you give them the part number for the kit??? 000 044 500 27 (6sp) 000 044 500 33 (Tip) Maybe they quoted you for the X74 kit (000-044-500-35)? ....which makes much more sense

Thanks Dell for the PM..... I did not give them the part #, but I did ask for the ROW M030 from Sunset. More calls to be made. Thanks Russ and Dell...

Try here for $1115 + shipping

Thanks Orient Express...More calls on Monday...

1) How do you reset the steering angle sensor? 2) What happens if you don't? Recently had the work done on my C4S at an independent so just wondering if they did this.

If a reputable place did the work, they did it. You'll know if they didn't, the steering will feel loose. The SAS measures the steering geometry in relation to other parameters such as ride ht. It then returns this data to the computer/awd/psm/abs. If the car rides ok, they probably did it right. I know of a couple of TT's that had coil overs installed by tuners who only wanted the car 'slammed,' never had it reset resulting in a wild ride. Re Sunset, I recently priced some parts, the quote was retail and then some, in fact the local dealer with 100% markup was less. Maybe they have changed their policy?

I just ordered a bunch of stuff for my 60k service and replacement plastic pieces for the under side of the car from Sunset on Thursday. They still were cost + 15% + shipping. Much cheaper than my local dealer. For example...passenger side wheel liner from Sunset was $98. Local dealer wanted $200+ for it.

Any reason GT3 sway bars would not work with the ROW 030 set up?

GT3 sway bars are a GREAT combination with ROW 030.