Can you folks help me value this car?

Hey everyone, Sorry for the long read, but I wanted to be thorough since I'm asking for your help. I'm hoping you can help me value this car. Normally I wouldn't be interested in a 996 911 with this high of mileage, but the previous owner has taken great care of the car. Some context around why I'm thinking about this car: Originally I was looking for a 6MT 996, but after some long and hard soul searching I am leaning towards a Tiptronic version. Both my knees are pretty wrecked from various ski accidents and I usually get a couple of flareups a year (which involve stiffness/soreness for up to 2-3 months at a time). The 6MT is obviously a lot more engaging to drive, but it would be difficult to use when my knees issues crop up. Specifics about the car: Asking $16.5k 2000 911 Cab Ocean Blue Metallic with Full Black Leather interior. 119k mi on the original engine 2 owner car. First owner owned the car from brand new until this year at which point they sold it to the current owner brokered by their mutual local Porsche mechanic. The current owner. Current owner has owned the car for about 3 months. The current owner said he bought it for his wife, but she doesn't like to drive it. I got to see his other 996 C2 when viewing the Cab for sale. Car looks really sweet. Service records dating back to 2009. The car was serviced at the same local shop since 2000, but the mechanic only started keeping digital records in 2009. Looks like all major wear and tear items have been taken care of since 2013. All of the major work listed below is documented and was performed by the first owner. IMS bearing replaced with LNE bearing in 2013. I saw that LNE has listed a 6 year/75k mile service life for bearing. It's pretty much coming up on 6 years. Do any of you have experience with running an LNE bearing past 6 years? In an ideal world I would just replace the bearing again, but it doesn't seem like the right move considering the mileage of the car. Since the car is a Tip, I'd be dropping the transmission for no other reason than to change the bearing. Probably doesn't make financial sense to drop $2-2.5k to change the IMS bearing on a car with this value Brake pads and rotors Drive belt Fuel pump All window regulators Water pump Replaced torque converter when transmission was out for servicing New battery Brand new tires (under 100mi on them) Relatively new top with glass window Car Options List: XME - Rear Center Console painted in Exterior Color X71 - Aluminum Painted Instrument Dials with Brushed Chrome Inner Rings X99 - Natural Leather 139 - Heated Seat (left) 249 - Tiptronic Transmission 288 - Headlight Washers 340 - Heated Seat (right) 432 - Steering Wheel with Tiptronic Controls 436 - 3-Spoke Steering Wheel 437 - Comfort Seat, left, electronically adjustable 438 - Comfort Seat, right, electronically adjustable 446 - Wheel Caps with Colored Crests 476 - PSM (Porsche Stability Management) 490 - Hi-Fi Sound Package 537 - Left Seat with positrol and lumbar 551 - Wind Deflector & Storage Shelf over Engine 586 - Lumbar Support, Left, Adjustable 601 - Litronic Xenon Headlights 662 - PCM (Porsche Information/NAvigation System) 680 - Hi-Fi Audio System with Booster 692 - CD Changer (6 CDs) Remote 936 - Seat Covers rear Leather 981 - Leather Equipment without Seat Covers 983 - Seat Covers Front and Rear Leather Right now I'm on the fence about making an offer, and if so, at what amount. Mechanically the car is in great shape, but it does have 120k miles on it. No questions that I'd want to get a full PPI, borescope, and drop the sump pan, but if those things came back clean is the car worth it? I'd love to get your thoughts. Pics of Car

Low 15’s. I would be interested at 15.5 and be trying for 15k even on a cash deal. The tip has very little interest and the miles are high for a 996. Will take this guy forever to sell it, but is not a bad car. Besides that the car is sweet. The 6 year bearing is very confusing to me. No bearings ever have a service life that I can think of. The Ln bearings were noted as a lifetime fix... BEFORE the ims solution came out (oil fed) then they were serviceable parts because you didn’t “really really love your car” or whatever. Don’t get me wrong, I like everything LN does but think that after 35,000 996’s got the ln bearings, the solution which is far better put them in a weird spot. They probably weren’t selling enough bearings and had to switch something up. Change ims when you do you rms, manual owners change it when you do a clutch or rms. But I won’t change my ims for it’s service life that was made up. Imho

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The 6 year bearing thing was really confusing to me too, but the way you described it sounds like the way to go. Keep it as is and only think about replacing it if I was doing something else that required me to drop the transmission. My main concern is the mileage on the motor. It�s higher mileage in number, but in reality it�s been driven roughly 6300mi/yr that it�s been around. Not an obscenely high number and most folks to seem to think that regular usage keeps the motor in better condition than garage queens. I�m planning to keep the car a long time so resale doesn�t bother me as much and to be honest, it might take a long time to sell, but Depreciation has already hit the owners pretty hard. My main concern is potentially needing a rebuild in the near future. At $15-16k value it wouldn�t really make financial sense to drop $10k on a used motor or $20k+ on a Vision Motorsport or Flat6 rebuild.

To be honest anything over 85k is high mileage on these cars. Honda/Toyota sure 130k is low miles. Make contact with the seller feel him out and wait ten days and check in with him again. For example a 968 Tiptonic is a cool car. Nobody disagrees, but a very slim buyer pool. Doesn’t mean anything really if you are in that pool, but use that leverage to get the deal you want. It’s very hard to sell any older car for that price for cash no matter what it is. Unless it’s some crazy deal. Everybody especially young people say “I am planning to keep the car forever/ really long time” it almost never happens nowadays. Be realistic. These aren’t easy cars to own. The stress of the m96 reputation effects ownership experience. There is no doubt about it.

@mrdeezy Really good perspective you got and you're absolutely right. I'd have a really tough time selling that car if I wanted to.

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You can also look at it this way if the motor only goes say another 50K miles and you drive it 4K/year that is 12.5 years. If it makes it to 200K and you drive it 6K/year that is 13 years. If you really like it and know it has been well maintained roll the dice at the best price. I used this logic when I purchased mine with 65K on it and only drive about 3K/year. If it only makes it to 100K that gives me 11.5 years.

https://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto...982393280.html just so you have something to compare to the one you're looking at. no connection to this car or owner. good luck.

$12K This car will need more than the IMSB done...Suspension, water pump, AOS, plastic vacuum lines are going to be brittle, coolant hoses over time etc.Do you do your own work or will you rely on a shop to do any repairs and maintenance? I would not roll the dice on the bearing, it could bite you in the ***. Have you even driven this car?

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I have driven the car. The suspension feels very tight and tidy and the engines pulls pretty good. I didn't notice any strange noises or sensations from the car. I had the owner drive the car first while I sat in the passengers seat then we swapped.

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See my edit done while you where typing.

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My car felt tight and went down hill fast within a year.

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^^I think the pricing is right on^^... The rest of the post is ill informed at best, and ignorant at worst (and spreading bogus information). ALL ball bearings have a service life - if you've ever replaced one, you'd know that. As for LN changing their mind on service life, I'm not sure where you got that (I can't refute it off hand, but I'd have to see proof to believe it - perhaps Charles can weigh in) - AFAIK their IMSR (IMS Bearing Retrofit) bearings have always had a "service life" associated with them, and were never touted as "a lifetime fix" - these periods are different for the various types of bearings (single row, classic dual row, single row pro etc.). The other somewhat misleading statement is "the ims solution came out (oil fed) then they (the IMSR kits) were serviceable parts because you didn�t �really really love your car� or whatever." - First of all, the "Solution" is not just an oil fed bearing (as are some other imitators). It's a plain bearing like that used in the Mezger engines, as well as on the other end of the IMS. Secondly, your assertion of some sort of lie/marketing ploy so they could sell more bearings is just silly. LNE is a business - they either grow or they die. They grow by improving the products they develop and sell. The Solution is a superior product, and it's price point is about 2X the cost of the ball bearings - this doesn't put them in a "weird spot"...it gives the consumer a choice to spend more money but not have to replace the bearing again. In fact, the Solution plain bearing can be used over again in another engine if you so choose. If you'd rather save the money, go for one of the less expensive options - just know that it's recommended you do it again in 60,000 - 75,000mi. or 4-6 years (depending on which bearing you got).

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Please elaborate. I bought a 996 three months ago and it still feels tight, for now, at least. Very interested in your story.

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Your rationale is in line with what I was thinking. I'd plan to replace the IMS bearing which is easy to plan for in a manual but in a Tip I'm wary of dropping the transmission just to replace the IMS bearing. Big money that will instantly add $2-3k to the cost of the car (and which is a fairly large % basis of the purchase price of the car).

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It's chump change compared to a blown motor if you ask me. Tough decision you have...

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Your car may have had the work done but my documentation go's back 8 years and not a lot of suspension work was done. I knew my rear struts where noted as needing replacement (in the previous owners mechanics notes), but it felt fine and I figured I had time. My short commute is twisty and in 9 months I can really feel the body roll now. Also I discovered a cracked bushing in one of the rear track bars that could not be seen until removed. I suspect at 17 years old they'll all start to fail sooner rather than later. All the rubber suspension parts have aged and should be addressed...I now can hear some creaking when I start off or come to a stop that wasn't there 9 months ago too.

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Yes it is. It's a no brainer to replace the IMS bearing, but in a more expensive (aka more desirable car) the sell is easy. The math on higher mileage 996's make it difficult to palate. Say I get the car for $15k and it costs $3k to drop the engine/tranny to install a new IMS bearing (not even the Solution which would cost $4k). At $3k install costs, we're talking 20% of the purchase price of the car. That's what makes higher mileage 996's really tough to sell. Every extra dollar you put into it a huge % of purchase price AND they're harder to sell at the end of the day.

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And if you don't do it? Any savvy buyer is going to negotiate that right off the top when you try to sell it.

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My suspension went from feeling great to being creaky within 12 months. Change all the control arms and (in my case Feal coilovers) shocks, and you’ll love driving it again. It feels like a new car again! I did my front control arms (coffin arms) and control arm links and roll bar bushings for around $300. Feal coilovers were around $1300 front and rear. Now I want to do my rear control arms too. Also my engine mounts. But I’m sure the difference for those will be minimal. $2000, a couple of jackstands and a Weekend (and a friend helps too) and you’ll be VERY happy.

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I was all set to do my CO last Sunday but my RAM lost it's alternator Saturday (wife drives it) so I had to fix that first. I can't wait to get this thing dialed in again! Could you see any signs of your coffin arms or other links before changing them. Mine look and feel good from under the car, but I have no service history of these being replaced.

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I ordered the rear coffin arms, rear control arms and motor mounts last night from Rock Auto. I'll order the control arm links soon from Amazon. I have to work this weekend, so I won't get a chance to do anything more than replace the engine mounts. Coilovers alone will revitalize the driving experience, but also doing the control arms will likely make it even better. Last year when I did my coilovers, I had ~63K miles on mine. Now I have 75K on it. It was definitely time for them to be replaced. The only signs of anything amiss was the horrible squeak when turning left or going over a speed bump. Most of the noise was from the left side, but the right was just starting to squeak, so I decided to do both, then I saw the EPS control arm links with the poly bushing and decided to give them a try. The coffin arms looked fine and the joint felt fine too. But I'm sure that was the source of the squeak because it sounded just like it did 2 years ago. The control arm links were VERY loosey-goosey, but I couldn't tell until I removed them. I reused the old bolts, but put Loctite on them. After torquing all the bolts, I put torque seal on them so I'll know if they loosen.

I understand having to work on the wife's vehicle first. My wife's always gets taken care of first. In fact, everybody's vehicle gets taken care of before mine. I still have lots parts that need (well not exactly need, but a very strong want) to go onto my car that I probably won't get around to for another month or two at least. I.e. Fabspeed cross pipe, bolt-in roll bar, the soon to be arriving control arms & motor mounts, underdrive pulley, new foam for the blender door...and probably more that I'm forgetting. I finally replaced my passenger side sunvisor flap last weekend. If I'd known how easy it was going to be, I wouldn't have waited 4 months to get around to it. I didn't know that the visor was so easily removed from the car. Tool-less removal rocks!

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Spent the $3000 on a lift instead and do the work yourself. Then, instead of the money just being gone, it’s invested in an asset that will help you save money the rest of your life. Just a thought. Not practical for everyone, I know, but this is what I intend to do. Every time my car needs work, I buy tools instead of giving my money to a mechanic.

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Wish this was even a possibility and this is how I approach minor work. I feel fine doing the work myself, but Just don�t have the space for a lift. I don�t even have space to store ramps as is. Womp womp.

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When I bought my 996 it's service history was mostly mysterious. One of the first things I did to it was replace both of the front control arms, control arm links, struts, and all 4 drop links. All the drop links were visually (and audibly) worn, but the rubber at the distal end of the control arms didn't look too bad to my eye. However, during the PPI the mechanic (at the dealer) was adamant that they were worn. When I removed the control arms from the frame they swiveled without much force at all. The new control arms, comparatively, required a fair bit of force to articulate the distal bit that secures to the wheel carrier. So, the mechanic was correct. Although the rubber boot may not be cracked or visibly worn, the only way to know for certain if it needs replacing is to just remove it from the wheel carrier and determine how easily that articulating bolt moves. I will say, though, having done this job that if I was going to go to the trouble of removing the control arm (and had a suspicion that the control arms needed replacing) that I'd just buy a new set and replace them. It takes a fair amount of time just to get the point where the control arm can be separated from the wheel carrier.

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When we rebuild our front suspension I'm thinking we'll take wheel carriers to a shop and have them replace wheel bearings. That takes a big press and I think the carrier must be off the vehicle, so seems best to do it while front susp is apart.

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After doing it a few times now it takes me about 30-45 minutes to remove both control arms on one side. Total time for me last weekend was 2 hours, but that also included marking all the bolts with torque seal and cleaning my front wheels afterwards. Here are the tools that I used to replace my front control arms: Sockets all 1/2") 15mm,16mm, 18mm,19mm, 24mm (for ball joint separator) My trusty Snap-On 1/2" Impact wrench Wrenches: 16m, 17mm, 18mm, 19mm 1/2" ratchet 1/2" Torque wrench Ball Joint separator Small screw driver Hydraulic jack 2 jack stands (This has been posted here before by someone else, but I thought I'd include it here since we're discussing control arm R&R) Suspension Fasteners Torque Specs Front: Control Arm to Subframe: 89 lb-ft Control arm to Diagonal Arm: 118 lb-ft Diagonal Arm to Subframe: 133 lb ft Control Arm to Knuckle: 56 lb-ft Shock Tube Clamp: 63 lb-ft Strut Mount to Body: 24 lb-ft Damper Rod to Mount: 59 lb-ft Tie-Rod to Knuckle: 56 lb-ft Tie-Rod Lock Nut: 37 lb-ft Swaybar Bushing Clamps: 48 lb-ft Swaybar End Links: 35 lb-ft Torque values for the "Hockey stick" are (going front to back) 74 ft lbs / 118 ft lbs / 48 ft lbs / 48 ft lbs.

I got some additional info from the seller. The 120k major service has already been completed so that saves a huge chunk of change. Within the last 5 years the control arms and bushings have also been changed out. Shocks and struts however have not. The seller has lowered the price to $15.5k and from the sound of it, is willing to go a bit cheaper since he needs to sell the car. I may be able to pick up this car between $13.5-14.5k. Originally, I was looking for a 996 with lower miles in the $20k range, but the extensive service records of this car (10+ years) and nice options list has me wondering if its worth taking a shot on a 996 with 120k miles. Am I an idiot for even thinking about buying this car?

Its a high mileage, tip, cab, making it the ultimate buyer�s market. If you liked how it drives and can negotiate a price around $12.5, what do you really have to lose? Drive the heck out of it and sell it as a roller if something happens.

I disagree with most of you. This car has a far better pedigree than most, and has had clear and significant documented maintenance. I think the asking price is fair, assuming good tires, brakes, and good interior/exterior condition.

It amazes me how all these owners talk so much trash about these cars whenever someone on here asks about buying one. So when you bought your 996 it was ok, but now they are all junk and everyone else should stay away? 15k for a toy as enjoyable as these is well worth it. Yes they are almost 20 years old so ANY car that old will need maintenance, not just these. And yes its more expensive to maintain its a PORSCHE! Buy it, drive it and smile while doing so. I am also not on the IMS needs the be changed after so many years train. Makes little sense to me. Both car A and B have 60k miles and change their IMS at the same time. Car A is a daily driver and 6 years later now has 120k, car B is just a weekend toy and 6 years later only has 68k on it. You are telling me that bearing needs replacement? I don't buy that... That being said 3k is short money for peace go mind.

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I think anything just under the asking price would be a good buy assuming a proper PPI is done and the engine not making any funny noises.Good luck and keep us posted.

"Car A is a daily driver and 6 years later now has 120k, car B is just a weekend toy and 6 years later only has 68k on it. You are telling me that bearing needs replacement? I don't buy that..." ^^ Um, in a word - YES! ^^ Your statement goes to show that you have little understanding of the potential issues with the IMSB. Do you also think that only driving the car 8k miles over 6 years is a good thing? Hmmmm... I wonder how many oil changes were done in that time? Oh wait, only 8k miles? It's still got another 2k before it needs to be changed

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Did I say they didn't change oil? Its people like you who are idiotic, are you a doomsday pepper with a fall out shelter too for the zombie apocalypse? Why can't people just enjoy these cars instead of living in fear?

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Thanks for all your thoughts @808Bill . I talked to the seller a bit last night and I think I'm going to pass on the car. Car is in great condition, we were actually at a really reasonable price, and I have no issues about the quality of this specific car. My only hesitation is the exit strategy. I actually think this car is a great deal on the buy side, but we all know that this car would take forever to sell, if/when I do decide to sell it in the future. A Tip Cab is one thing, but a high mileage Tip Cab is another beast altogether.