Buying advice - 1999 vs 2000+

I am looking at getting a new car and considering a 1999 Porsche 996 or 2003 BMW M3. I've been a big BMW fan for a while (currently have a 1996 M3), but thought I should look into Porsche as well before making a decision. It will mainly be a daily driver here in Northern California. So bad weather isn't a big concern. No wife and no kids to factor into the buying decision. And it will only see the occasional track or autocross day. I did a few search but couldn't find an answer to my specific question. The 1999 996 best fits into my price range for a Posche. Is there any reason I should avoid a 1999 in favor of a 2000+ (assuming the PPI checks out and there are no apparent RMS problems)? I realize it the the first year for the 996s, so I would like to know if they made any changes between the 1999 and 2000 models. And based on my searchs in autotrader, the 3.6L 2002+ is a bit out of my price range. Ideally, I'd like to find a 1999 black 996 with the aero kit. Also, I've heard Porsches have a considerable list of options. Is there a good reference site for this? I'd like to be a bit more educated on what was available on the car as I look as ads. Thanks in advance for the help

Brian - a 1999 C2 should run you between 35k and 38k, while a 2003 M3 will hit you in the high 40's. Buy the newest 996 you can afford, but you should be able to get either a 2000 C2 or an 2001/2002 M3 for about 40-42k. I would go with the Porsche simply because you've already had an M3 - but watch out, once you go Porsche, everything else feels like a toad.

LOL That is one of the things that attracts me to the early 996s. I love the engine in the E46 M3's - it is simply a work of art. But car as a whole just keeps getting heavier. BMW specs them at 3,415 lbs. I like that the 3.4L 996 C2s are under 3,000lbs. As far as pricing, I have found 2003 M3 just under 40k. And because they are newer, I can get better financing terms. Which is why I am comparing it to the early 996s. I see the the 1999 C2 are about 3 - 6k cheaper than the 2000+s. Just wondering if anything other than simple age of the vehicle is driving this.

If you get a 99 and one of the earlier non E-gas ones I actually even prefer those.... You can pump up the performance of the 3.4L to above and beyond the 3.6L anyways....

The option list is long. Check on Renntech.org or maybe somone here has a pdf file of the order guide. But as a reference....pwr windows, door locks and sun roofs came standard, as did leather seating surfaces and electric tilt functions on the seats (with the rest manual), along with auto climate, with A/C and cruise, 17" wheels were standard. Many of the Porsche options are visual such as aluminum look packages, leather packages, carbon fiiber packages, etc. Some of the more common optiosn are the Hi/Fi audio upgrade, 18" wheels, three spoke steering wheel. Litronic lights are a desirable option to most. Heated seats to some. Sports seats are an option as were power memory seats. In general if you look each new year of car carries about $5k more. However, the 99 market seems to be hit harder than the others. It seems much of it is on some preceived reality that they are not as reliable or have more problems than the later cars (which there is no evidence to support this). There are differences in the cars though. The 99 is the only year with its interior materials. Porsche "upgraded" (depends on who you talk to) the materials in 2000. The dash is "soft" textured vs. the dimpled hard material of 99. There are other plastic parts that were changed. The center consol has a "soft" covering vs. the hard plastic of 99. 2000+ got cup holders (fugly crappy ones but cup holders none the less). There is no evidence to point to more RMS problems in the 99 vs any other year of the 996, so that should not be factor. There were more reported squeaks and rattles in the interoir of the 99's but likely those have been remedied as the later cars (additions of felt, etc.).

Brian, The E46 m3 has nothing on the 996. I'm selling my e36 rite now. Drove many moddified E46 m's and still preferred my e36 to it.. Just picked up my 996 this month. Get the 996 and a good suspension and you will be runnin circles around the bimmers... old car New 1 Just a SSK so far, JRZ suspension coming up soon....

As a former 96 M3 owner (estoril blue as well), and now a black 99 c2 owner, there's only a few negative thoughts I had from the switch. * Ease of working on the M3. The M3 was fairly simple when it came to almost any repair - and quick to get in the air without a lift. Jacking up the M3 is as simple as driving up on ramps, and jacking the rear end from the central jacking point underneath the diff. None of this jack up one side, then the other back and forth stuff to do with the car. This time definitely adds up. * Cheaper aftermarket and more options with the M3. Nearly $1k for any aftermarket exhaust for the 996 - and you WILL want one if the car does not come with PSE (sport exhaust, factory option). From your avatar, it looks like you have a non-lux M3, in which case you may be used to the non-power seats. My 996 does not have full power seats and coming from M3s, it does not bother me at all. I loved my M3, but the 996 has proven itself to be an excellent comfortable daily driver and performs when required. <p>

Thanks for the info. That is what I was looking for. I know a lot of people avoid the 1st model year of a new design due to the perception of problems that they feel the mfg will work out in the second year. I feel that the used car market reflects this. So my question was whether this "discount" for 1999 models is warranted due to reliability or build quality issues, or is it simply public perception creeping in. Based on what I am hearing, it sounds like the later. If it is simply public perception, then it would say that the 1999s are a good buy relative to a mechanicaly similiar car of a later year

This also reinforcements my perception that the E46 has a better engine (than the E36) but is just getting to fat. Its my biggest hesitation in going with the E46... just too much weight. I love how easy it is to throw a E36 hard into a corner =). I just wish I had something that was a bit faster in a straight line. I'm tired of G35s and Zs pulling on me - haha

Brian92fs - another option is something fun from activeautowerke

If you are patient enough, find a 1999 C2 with Traction Control, which can be completely switched off when you are on the track, unlike PSM which can never be really switched off completely on the 2000+ models(Carrera and Turbo). Also, the 99 was the only year that had a mechanical LSD as an option. Very raw and track ready if you can find the above options. But the 99 models had cracked/leaking coolant tank problem, amber signal lights and headlights that look like fried eggs and lower quality interior, but a lot of them came loaded with porsche options like full leather and will take care of these interior comcerns. The amber lens are cheap to upgrade yourself. Personally, I don't agree with Porsche's move towards PSM electronics with open differential. That's so unsports car like. The only real porsches left are the GT2/3 with no fancy electronics but equiped with mechanical LSDs...

Brian, What you posted is hysterical!!! I am in the EXACT SAME situation as yourself. Having just sold my 951 I am considering either a 1999-2000 996 or a 2001-2002 M3...Maybe even an M5. I also don't have a family to worry about, and I have a winter truck too! We are in the same boat my friend. I truly have no idea what to do!

Actually, I was considering Eurosports TS. It would be a beast with that But, I think I'd rather upgrade while my 96 M3 still has low miles (70k). I figure I might still be able to sell it at a decent price. frank320 - Thanks for the info. Very good to know. Well, I'm in no real hurry to buy. So I think I'll just lurk on autotrader and cars.com (gotta plug this.. I work for the their owner haha) looking for the right car. Hopefully a 99 996 with aero, LSD and under 50k miles.

If you decide on a Prosche, get the 99 C2 with LSD. It's the least computer controlled 996 out there.

I used to own a 2003 M3 (it was stolen) now I'm looking for a 996....Good luck in your search.

Do you need back seats? If so, M3 has useable back seats where as 996 are pretty much useless. M3 will have warranty left so that's a nice thought. Test drive both. M3 has less torque and 996 sounds deeper. If I were you, I'd choose a M3 bc it's newer. The only way I'd go with 996 is if I find a nice example w some updated lights and possibly an aerokit. 99 996 may be widely available but getting one is prestine condition would be hard. I'd go with 00 since you are planning on spending $40k. Don't skimp on a 996 when choosing the model year. You'll end up upgrading something which will cost you more.

If looks are anything to go by, then make sure you see the differences between the Mk1 and Mk2 996. The biggest difference is that the 1999-2001 ( right? ) have the same front end as the Boxter. That's the only thing I don't like about my 1999 C4 Cab.. but I was actually looking for a 964 until I got stuck on the idea of having a cab, and I think that all the pre 996 cab mechanisms are fugly. Having doubled my budget overnight and really wanting a C4 I didn't want to stretch to a 2002. Keith

One of my good friends has an '03 M3 is silver. It's very fast but I can still take him. The car suprised me at how quick it was. I wouldn't consider anything less than '03 on the M3 due to the power increase. In this area, prices are about the same for the two cars. If you're looking for an aero car, expect to pay about $5k extra, they easily bring it.

Really? I very much like the smoothness of the headlight assembly on the Mk1. Of course, the 99s have the very noticeable orange turn signal which isn't so great, but the 00s and 01s are clear and if you have an aero kit on them, they look terrific. Now don't get me wrong, I know there's a host of improvements made on the Mk2 beyond the headlights (which I also happen to like by the way), but aesthetically, the Mk1 looks quite good also. Indeed, the distortion on the Mk2's headlight assembly and front bumper cut out could be viewed as a little distracting and breaks the clean lines of the car. Food for though.

I've been search on autotrader and cars.com and have seen a few 1999s with the aero kit. But I haven't seen any that mention the LSD option. Is this a rare option? Will I have trouble finding a car with it? In any event, I assume I'll spend up to 6 months in the search. I spent over a year looking for the M3 I currently drive. So I am prepared to be patient and find the right car. Just curious how hard it will be to find a aero kit car with LSD and traction control. And of course find all of this under 40k. Am I delusional or is this realistic?

You don't need LSD on a 996. That's a rare option.

You could buy my 01 for just over 40K and have a newer car with a warranty... just a thought... I am completely spooked about having a car out of warranty after paying around $10K for an engine...

That kinda what I gathered after searching a bit. It would be nice to have, but only really usefull if I decide to track or autocross it more.

Option Code = 220, look under the hood for the sticker code. Some folks have it and don't even know it. Those are the gems. Based on the thread below, some people think that if you have a 1999 C2 with traction control, then you have LSD. But best bet is still to look for the option code to be sure. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/24845-difference-between-traction-control-sub-systems.html

Drove a 01 Dinan M3 yesterday,smooth and alot of power.

>>>Some folks have it and don't even know it.<<< One of those folks was me. Wow, this car just keeps getting better and better. I traded my track 951 for a daily driver/occasional track car a couple of months ago. It's been to the track once so far. I'd have to weigh in on the side of the '99 vs. '00 and the 996 vs. the M3, as the car has yet to disappoint and if I can find an excellent condition, relatively low mileage example(45K), I'm sure you can as well.

I love my 99 C2. When the 996 first came out, I didn't like the looks of them- but now I love it. One thing about the 99 is that it weighs barely over 2900lbs, and the engine loves to rev. Mine doesn't have any traction control or anything like that- just a raw 911 that wants to be driven hard. I researched for a long time before settling on a pre-2002 car and am very happy I did. I saved money and got a truly excellent car. As far as speed goes- this thing flies. Everytime I give a person a 2nd gear demonstration, they start giggling like a little girl and exhibit the kind of behavior you see on roller coasters. My car is Guards Red with a black interior and it looks awesome.

I've had them both (now have a 99 996). I loved my M3. Problem is, the way the m3 makes you sit. Because the engine is so far back, my right leg was always against the firewall - making me sit a little sideways. Sitting sideways is fine....unless you're in traffic. I've found that pumping the brake and clutch in city driving, while sitting sideways, caused me intense backpain after only about 20minutes. Could not take the car on long trips without oxycodone. I sit perfectly straight in the 996....no more oxycodone

2001-2006 M3's all have 333hp, though the earlier cars, 01 and 02 had more engine failures. If you do get an #46, I would take 03 or above

Actually the problem was resolved at buld date 05/2005 +. So the early 2003 still have the engine problems of the 2001 and 2002's. Howver, if you do get one of those engines, they have a 100,000 mile warranty due to the problems. Not sure if this makes up for the fact that the dealer opened up the engine.

Great thread... it's my 1st time doing some research on a 996. I am selling my 951 and thinking of sellling my 04 BMW 330ZHP and getting an early 996. I'll have to do a search on this coolant issue that was mentioned. I sold new Porsche's and BMW's up until a year ago and was Porsche and BMW certified. I drove a lot of metal in a lot of different situations and while I absolutely love BMW's, the 996 is more of a drivers car than the E46 is. The 997 while way off base in this topic is on another planet all together! I've had more than one customer test drive both and they always went for the 996 if they had the coin. I did have a guy buy an M3, but only because he couldn't afford a new 996 and would not buy a certified one. Carolina Clutter - $10k?! What happened - share some details! Dallas boats - I am fairly certain E46 M3's have had the same hp from 01 until now. The LSD is interesting - I did not know they were offered... For me it would be a must... I'm tired of cars without LSD... How much is an aftermarket one for these cars? I bet big $$$$.

My 99 doesn't have LSD, and I was curious about getting one installed. I saw in one of my Porsche magazines a quaiffe (sp?) diff for around $1000 or so, and I'm not sure about hours of labor on top of that. I think I will look into it and get one soon, since I hate the idea of not having one. Had I bought the car brand new I would have had it installed. At any rate, I've noticed the lack of LSD on occasion while coming out of turns as one tire loses traction on acceleration. This of course is enough to get sideways in a car with no traction control .

I have a late '99 996 with under 45k miles that I am thinking of selling it has traction control (not sure about LSD), clear/smoked lights all round (litronics at the front) no fugly orange, and it also has the full leather interior which negates the plasticy dashboard PM me if you want to know more

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I am a '99 996 owner...what is LSD?

limited slip differential

I am still amazed that a LSD is not a standard item on a sports car of this caliber.

For those of you following this thread closely, here's a little more info: The 99 996 C2 that came equipped with LSD had a lock-up ratio of 60/40, same as a 996 GT2 and GT3's LSD. The only exception is the 40th anniversary 996 that came equipped with a LSD also, but with a lower lock up ratio of only 80/20, but has PSM that cannot be switched off on the track. Of course, the 996 C2's LSD is of lower quality than than the ones on the GT2/3s. But still, if you are one of the few lucky 99 996 C2 owners with LSD, enjoy the lineage of your cars. :-)

>>> But still, if you are one of the few lucky 99 996 C2 owners with LSD, enjoy the lineage of your cars. :-)<<< >>>I am still amazed that a LSD is not a standard item on a sports car of this caliber. <<< I'm guessing, but I'd imagine Porsche feels that PSM is superior to a mechanical LSD.

I guess it depends on who their marketing too. If the bulk of the drivers are just the average Joe with a bit of money to spend, then PSM is better. But for those who have gone to driving schools or see occassional track or autocross time, PSM plays second to LSD.

I think you're right on.

Didn't have a problem with my 03 but I only had 10k miles on it when it was stolen. A couple of months later, I got the recall notice from BMW regarding the engine.

That's funny - us E30 M3 guys think the E36 M3 is too fat FWIW, I'm considering selling my E30 M3 2.5 (fully restored) to purchase a 99 996 as my daily driver - they're almost the same price!!!! In a roundabout way I hope this helps with your question. A BMW is simply not a Porsche! Get the 996 and say goodbye to featureless, overboosted steering, too soft clutch, and cheap floating caliper brakes. The only thing holding me back is that I have a baby on the way and will sometimes need to transport him or her in my own car. Guys, will a baby seat fit in the back of a 996???? Cheers, Joe 1995 Porsche 993 1988 BMW E30 M3 2.5 (240HP) daily driver

HAHA - well I'd say the E36 is about the heaviest I feel a true sports car should get. And yes when I have tracked it, it can sometimes feel on the fat side into a hard turn. Which just makes me that much more hesitant on the E46. And you are right, as good as BMW brakes are Porsche is on another level. I think the fact that OEM 993 calipers are a BMW aftermarket upgrade says it all.

I personally think my 996 c2 is a bit on the weighty side - probably something to do with that big lump on the rear axle

You should be able to find a rear facing babyseat designed to sit in the front passenger seat which will shut off the airbag when buckled in. No idea where to find them. Hope this helps, though.

Hey Brian I have a 99 996 C2 and my daily driver is an 02 BMW M3 so I feel you there. I love both of em. Each one does something different for me. The M3 is a good daily driver especially if you have a family and/or carry things. The 996 is good for those "just me" times or when I put the M3 in the shop or something or I am just having a "PMS day" as I call them which doesn't stand for premenstral syndrome since I am a dude but what I call "PORSCHE MUST DRIVE!" My wife just shakes her head when those come on tells me any tickets I get are my fault when that smile comes across my face as I leave out the door in the AM! Anyway you can't go wrong with either vehicle. Expect to spend $34k to $40k for a 1999 996 and have it checked out thorougly and my 02 M3 cost me $38k for a fully loaded CPO vehicle last March so remember the car salesman rules....pay what you can, be ready to walk out, and give em a profit but you don't put their kids thru school and you'll do fine. Email me if you have questions.

opps I forgot the cardinal rule of the rennlist...enclose pics. My bad. Here ya go. http://forums.rennlist.com/upload/photo_060705_001.jpg

I have a 99 c2 tiptronic that i use as my daily driver. I love it. Mine has the traction control and limited slip. I test drove a few other model years but I love the 99. It just feels less "electronic" to me. Plus for mods (like stereo upgrades) it is so much easier- no MOST fiber optic to deal with. I have been very happy with my choice. I have customized the car in my own way. I have the evo cold air intake (like the sound- sounds more like an "air cooled" to me), i have some interior arctic silver trim pieces, 3 spoke wheel, aluminium pedals, focal speakers, etc.... The amount of money i saved more than paid for the "extras" Good luck.

Sounds like I'll be getting a '99 996 with rare LSD option as well. The current asking prices for '99s are dipping into the $29Ks for high-mileage cars (AutoTrader and Cars.Com). I just wish the sellers knew more about their cars. I email every single '99 996 owner about LSD, and none of them knows if they have a limited slip differential or not. The option code 220 sticker under the hood is nice info to have. I'll tell them to look for that sticker. Great forum we have here for us E36 M3-wannabee-Pcar-owners LOL...and yes for us REAL drivers the '99 996 will be our badge of honor--a testament to our true driving talents LOL (as a front for our lack of financial heartiness to afford 2002+ 996es LOL )

I seem to be the opposite end of the spectrum. I have just sold my 99 C2 Cabrio in favour of an 03 M3 Cabrio. For me, the thing I liked was the extra comfort of the M3 - many more features and a much more luxurious interior. No question about it, the 996 was a better "driver's car" but the M3 for me was not a significant step backwards in performance, and was a great step up in creature comforts. Plus I was able to buy my 03 (still under warranty) M3 with 38xxx miles for approximately $5000 more than I sold my 99 C2 Cabrio with 55xxx miles and no warranty. That was the final selling point for me. Edit - the only thing I REALLY miss about the 996 is the sound as you cross 4300rpm when the intakes get really loud and you KNOW this car means business. this m3 revs to almost 8100rpm and is a very different sound, although certainly has its charms.