Was my offer really not reasonable?

I test drove a C4S today in San Diego (Pioneer Porsche). It was silver and certainly wasn't loaded (Xenon, Heated seats, Bose high-end, mats) and had 34,289 miles. It is certified pre-owned though and they have a lojack type system that is on all their cars and offer free oil changes for the life of the car. I went inside with the guy and told him I liked it but that I thought that 66,900 was too much. He then looked on the sheet and said it was actually 67,900 (I checked the website and it says 66,900). Then he went into how much it was to certify pre-own the thing etc... I finally said that I would offer him 65k out the door since the car was already registered the only fees were tax + 110 bucks or so which means I was basically offering just under 60k for it. I figured that kbb for an excellent 2003 C4S was around 55k so that is the most they would have given the guy so I was basically giving them 5k in profit. He was basically a jerk about it and said he would put it in and run the numbers but that it wouldn't get approved etc... I just said ok and walked out. Was my offer really that bad? I've seen '03s on cars.com for less than that with lower miles. On a completely different note I am very unimpressed with this dealership. They have been the most rude to work with by a long shot. Very bad attitude like I am wasting their time test driving a car etc... It is quite frustrating since the only other dealership down in SD is Hoehn and they just haven't had the inventory of used that I am looking for.

test driving with intend to purchase is not wasting their time. i would test 10-20 cars in one single dealership and take them whole weekend to buy my cars. the price you offered is not bad at all, but of course they are a dealership, so they want more than any private seller though. however, the mileage is not super low so they price they ask is way too high. you can get TT for 75k or so, and GT3 for 82k from a dealer. so i think their 67900 is way out of line. CPO cost only $2400, that INCLUDES their profit. dont let them tell you otherwise, b/c i just had my dealer run my car through their CPO program. (i am in SF, CA... thus everything should be higher than your area.)

I have had very good luck with both dealerships, pioneer in perticular looked for a car matching my description for almost 4 months and called me every two weeks or so to keep me updated. I will say in San Diego they are used to people just coming in and pointing and going "I want that one" and then paying for it. At least that is the opinion that I got from dealing with them.

Maybe I am just unlucky with who has helped me at Pioneer but this is the second time I have had a bad experience. When I left the guy didn't he shake my hand or say anything he just walked away also. I was utterly baffled. At another dealership in LA (who has been helpful) we sat down and he let me use his computer to show him the prices that I was using to come up with my offer. We ended up being too far apart to finalize anything but the sales manager still came over to shake my hand and say they hoped to work with me etc... This guy wouldn't even let me use his computer to go on-line to show him how I came up with my offer! I guess I just expect top notch service when buying a car of Porsche's quality not the opposite.

I think your offer was more than fair. Dealer priced car high hoping a sucker would walk of the street and buy it. Keep shopping, you'll find the right car

Car salespeople are experienced professional negotiators and know all the tricks. The best defense is to do your homework, stick to your guns, and not fall for their act.

How long was the car sitting on the lot? If it's only been a couple of weeks they might feel they can do better... If the car is on the lot next month go back and offer the same price -$500 I just bought mine and found that prices are high this summer but they are having trouble moving them off the lots. I have seen a couple cars at different dealers have their prices cut. More than once...

Just stay put and be patient; they'll need a sucker to get their full asking price. I think your offer was fairly in-line for an '03 with that mileage. $68K is way too much.

You shouldn't have to ask them ANYTHING. In doing any kind of negotiating to stay on top you need only ask one question that has a yes or no answer. You should have everything you need printed out and with you in a folder along with any similar vehicles with listed prices. That way you can whip it out and say, "Here are the numbers. You stand to make $XXX right now without any negotiating. Deal?" If they leave it, so be it. Give them a card with the exact car you are looking at with the price you want written on the back and tell them to call you if they change their mind.

Sent you pm... i'll help you out..

I have purchased 5 cars from Pioneer. I had to go through the "walk out the door routine each time" and this was with the same salesperson/manager. Hoehn is very easy to work with (and only a mile from my house) but as you said they do not have the inventory. Good luck with the car hopefully they will call back. Bruce

Your offer was probably too much actually, in the end they'll be lucky to get that. The miles are too high and really no special options( technology wheels, aluminum, cf, aerokit). Be patient, when they call back offer 60k max, or walk. As a point of reference, my friend sold his '03 C4S(AS/Blk, carbon/alum, loaded, 91k sticker, only 9k miles) to a guy in SD for 62k, mine has more miles and more options and I listed it at 60k recently.

Thanks for all the thoughts everyone. C4S Surgeon - my offer was basically 60k because I offered them 65k out the door. (Car is already registered so there was around $100 in fees and then tax).

my guess is you probably come with more knowledge on actual vvalue than most consumers. in the end, they are 'trying to keep the lights on' so they want to put up big numbers...bigger than true retail value...i walk through porsche north scottsdale and look at asking on almost anything pre-owned and think yeah-right. no excuse for them 'blowing you off though' don't go back to that sales person whatever you do. 60k is alot of scratch get someone who values YOUR TIME and YOUR DOLLAR the first time i ever walked up to the dealer i was greated by a guy who spent an hour and a half with me on a buisy saturday...and 'i was just looking'. about 20 minutes into him going over the features and performance numbers her says "have you ever driven a 996?" i said no. he said 'the first thing we have to do is fix that, let me go get you some keys!" I didn't buy that day but I did on a subsequent visit. I later found out he was the number one porsche sales person in the country...i can see why! Great job Mark Seiffert!!

Mooty, Guy who owns a Porsche delaership in the South told me that a CPO actually only costs the dealership $1,595... this was for a C2... not sure if a C4S is more expensive, but 2,400 sound a little high.

$1500 is about the number for CPO.

I had a good experience at Pioneer but I was paying more than I should and knew it. But I agree.Business is a tranaction not a marriage. No BS . I will buy at this price. Can you do it or not? No emotion just commerce. Here's my number. If not - don't waste my time. WHy should one have to pretend to do anything. You did the right thing. BTW the internet has made it all about price. Most cars are commodities and the emotion of fear- not buying local etc. Search the net and buy for the right price. And drive by Pioneer and laugh every time you see the car still on the lot. ScottS

most of them actually dont negotiate well. it takes TIME to negotiate. you can learn that by going to honda dealers. i borrowed my friend's kid, her toys, her milk, lunch (the messier the better), my brkfast, lunch and dinner ( i called to order chinese food, big spread too and invited my college friends to have dinner with me at the dealership ), we were off by $150. but i wasn't gonna let it go. i was a student and i have no money but whole lot of time. 7 hours later ( i did my homework there too) i got what i wanted with what i was willing to pay for it.

i know, 2400 is inc their big profit and they are doing me a favor as i bought the car privately and want them to certify it through CPO. so i was willing to let them make some money.

I paid $1549 for the CPO Limited Warranty, added at the end after final negotiated price was agreed upon, as you can buy a CPO car and not purchase the Limited Warranty. FWIW, both dealers here in Atlanta told me that all advertised prices did not include the cost of the Limited Warranty.

my guess is you probably come with more knowledge on actual vvalue than most consumers. in the end, they are 'trying to keep the lights on' so they want to put up big numbers...bigger than true retail value...i walk through porsche north scottsdale and look at asking on almost anything pre-owned and think yeah-right. no excuse for them 'blowing you off though' don't go back to that sales person whatever you do. 60k is alot of scratch get someone who values YOUR TIME and YOUR DOLLAR the first time i ever walked up to the dealer i was greated by a guy who spent an hour and a half with me on a buisy saturday...and 'i was just looking'. about 20 minutes into him going over the features and performance numbers her says "have you ever driven a 996?" i said no. he said 'the first thing we have to do is fix that, let me go get you some keys!" I didn't buy that day but I did on a subsequent visit. I later found out he was the number one porsche sales person in the country...i can see why! Great job Mark Seiffert!! __________________ Just a comment that I also had a great buying experience with Mark Seiffert. I bought an '02 996 in November '05 from him and just placed an order for a 997 GT3. He is the epitomy of a professional. Very knowledgeable, willing to spend time and answer all questions, no pressure and excellent post sale follow up! He has earned my business! Gary

My personal opinion, for what it's worth, is that the dealer insulted you and basically told you that he didn't value you as a potential customer. Not in a million years would I turn around and give him my business after that. What I would do is wait until I found and bought my C4S. I would then write to the dealership and convey to them how they lost out on a deal and a potential repeat customer due to their devil-could-care attitude. I'd then include a picture of the car with me smiling next to it. I'm a vindictive sob and I can't stand arrogant car-salesman.