Installing turbo engine in to 996 c2

I'm a gear head, been a gear head all my adult life. New to water cool Porsches, But I did own a 71' model S fun car. Been modding many different car. Just purchased a 2003 996 that had a 3.6 normally aspirated engine. Lady luck is on my side and I was able to purchase a good 3.6 turbo engine. The question is this. I don't see why, maybe someone can explain. can the regular ECU be mapped to work with the turbo engine. I see it as a tuning thing but not being an expert, I rather check on the subject. Tried doing searches but nothing found. Maybe this is the first ever.

How do you map a NA engine ECU to a turbo set up? It doesn't know what the boost is, it can't rely on the O2 sensors...it will be too late. It would be so much easier and cheaper to buy a 996 turbo. Or buy the one supercharger kit for your NA motor. Happy New Year!

Okay so let me understand. So TCP racing or vivid racing use a different ECU for their turbo kits? Maybe it does but I don't think so. Its mass air mapping, curve timing, ignition curving regardless of the turbos. There isn't any harness going to the turbos as far I can tell. With any other engine I've ever seen curving of the computer call tuning. is done via a laptop.

How are you going to measure boost and insert it into the ECU? I do have a 944 turbo, and I have a piggy back fueling system.....it not only looks at everything a normally aspirated engine does, but it also looks and boost and has a map for it. Here is a picture of the piggy back map....it was writing to the ECU after I changed values based on my air fuel ratios. The normally aspirated 996 does not measure boost not does the ECU care about this function. I have never seen a normally aspirated 996 that had a turbo on it....it might exist but I've never seen one.

I see and understand what you are saying truly. TCP and Vivid make turbo packages for the 3.4 and 3.6 engine, keep in mind these engines run very low boost nothing over 5 psi. At least from my reading, unfortunately their site don't give out too much info. They don't offer a piggy back or replacement ECU. that why I'm stating such statements.

Why not just use a turbo ecu?

Because like Paul can tell. try finding one, oh and get ready. They will want your first born and kidneys to boot.

All ECU's measure air. What is boost high volume, high pressure air. It is still measurable. A piggy back maybe the ticket.

Talk to pete95zhn . He has done this, and the results are spectacular.

I would talk to Charles Dundon in Gig Harbor, WA (Dundon Motorsports). He is an engine genius and probably one of the best in the Northwest. He just put a 997S 3.8 into my 2000 996. He did the harness rewiring, added variocam and a whole bunch of other functions. He is the nicest guy...just call him and tell him the guy with the yellow C2 997 swap sent you his way.

Quotes source post: 14702417

Hi Rob! No, you're not the first one. It can be done and it's not even that difficult. But there will be some issues. Mechanically it's easy, engine will almost bolt on: -Just modify carrier plate on the engine for NA' motor mounts and move transmission carrier mounting bolts to other threads on the body. -Buy turbo's transmission and install with turbo's drive shafts -Modify rear cooling lines. -Install turbo's (or AM) fuel pump and return line. -Sort out effcient water to air intercooling system and install. Steath and good for street. Search for bbi's solution for turbo'd Pike's Peak 997 GT3. Then there's electronics. You already have Motronic with VarioCam Plus controls, so based on my own adventures in the wonderland I'd recommend using it. Discuss with a good tuner for reprogramming and use external boost controller. '03 Carrera and turbo should (in 99% probability) have similar engine sensoring (except inlet air pressure) thus also similar wiring loom, so there shouldn't be problems that couldn't be solved. Switching to turbo's Motronic would cause issues: -While your car is 2wd and turbo is 4wd, your ABS/PSM pump will not discuss with that Motronic and would have to be changed. (Although I did not get definitive answers years back if the Motronic could be reprogrammed or not in this aspect... ABS/PSM unit can't, they're model specific). -Instrument panel would have to be changed too. -Fortunately your car already has CANbus, in mkI's HVAC and lot of wiring would also have to be changed with turbo's Motronic. Don't ask why I know this... - Switching to GT2's Motronic would lead to new instrument panel, ABS (and losing PSM) and new fuel level metering. - One basic difference there is between NA and turbo engine (and instrument panel): engine oil level measurement. The logic is different and lost with the swap. Install GT3/Cup oil dip stick and live with nuisance warning. Before starting the swap compare turbo's and Carrera's PETs for part number differences WSM for wiring loom differences to find out what's different in engine electronics. -IAT measurement for sure. -coil pack wiring possibly (in mkI's certainly) Keep Carrera's stealth looks and enjoy the surprise. PS: I'd upgrade suspension and brakes to match the increased performance. Then there's these normal power and performance upgrades widely discussed.

Eureka I knew that this had to have been done, it just makes sense. Now Pete if I may, how would my Motronic? Unless there is a way to tap in the secondary air sensors and thats plural sinse there are 2 turbos, which monitors the turbos boosted air I don't see it. Please Obie one I'm listening!

with enough time and money anything is possible.

.6 turbo uses one MAF, air to turbos is split after it. .7 turbo has two MAFs, one for each turbo. Yet on both cars MAFs (Bosch) are located just after air cleaner housing. Now I use .7 turbo air cleaner housing with one MAF (Hitachi). How it's possible? Well, the input signal is doubled in Motronic tune. Seems to work... I haven't looked into 996.2's Motronic's inputs. There may be a possibility to add a intake pressure (MAP) sensor, then it would be quite straightforward. @ WOT with MAP, otherwise with MAF. But, I recommend you to contact some Motronic wizard with these questions. Previously suggested Dundon is one alternative. I got my questions solved locally. I had a long and comprehensive build thread at Renntrack, but it got hit by an asteroid and burst into flames so everything was lost. Still something can be found from here .

Instead of an air-water IC, Have you thought about a top mount IC like the 993 TT? It may involve making a custom ductail or whaletail...but what would be so wrong with that?

Gemballa did that with their turbo'd GT3. IMO it's difficult to find a rear hatch that covers IC positioned so and does not look obscene. I did think that myself, but rejected it because of reason mentioned in previous sentence. OTH with present looks... If I would have not gone to track duty and looks, something in style of 997 GTS / 991 R could have been the option. One thing against IC on top of the engine is the difficulty to arrange adequate airflow and another is even worse serviceability of the engine. Of course air to air IC is lighter than water to air and on narrowbodied car IC placement is difficult. My car was NB until last winter. OEM turbo (WB) ICs will fit, but cooling air channels inside rear fender arches not. So RUF style inlets are a must.

Quotes source post: 14702417

Did you buy that 996 turbo engine that was on Craigslist? There was one in Houstin TX the other day complete engine, turbo's exhaust, mufflers ect.for $6500.

Thanks Pete all this info is priceless. To be honest the engine is fairly complete, minus of course the brain. I believe and I could be mistaken the turbos are the .6, which from your comment post it would easiest for me. Love to install larger turbos, but keeping things simplistic is the wises thing to do at the moment. This may sound dumb, but as Americans we love fast gratification. I'm selling my 67' Nova 2 door hardtop which to be honest I've done the hard work, but with these old cars parts are the hardest thing to come by. I'm 53 yrs old I don't want a 10yr project.

Quotes source post: 14703901

Yes had to drive to LA near Lafayette to get it, but it was worth it. Its off an 01' got it for $5500.

Quotes source post: 14704229

Smokin deal !!

Quotes source post: 14704263

no kidding!

Yes it is but keep in mind the owner bought it for a project he changed his mind on building, he swears the engine is fine but admits he has never seen it run. Its a Mezger design it should be bullet proof.

You could always use it as an art piece for your library or den until ready to go into service ;-)

Quotes source post: 14704312

Yea but you would have a hard time finding a 3.4 N/A with 100k miles on it for $5500 with the same lip service,much less a 996 turbo engine with 15k on it. Like I said , Smokin Deal !! lol

Wow...that is an amazing deal...did you also get the ECU with it? A few months ago I paid about twice that for a low miles 997S engine with ECU and thought that was a deal but this one is even better.

Quotes source post: 14704559

I'm afraid not unfortunately, thats why the questions on reusing the ECU from the reg 3.6 that came off the car.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...mp2&CMP=stemp2 Maybe contact this person and see what was done to make their setup work? Looks like it's a regular M96 engine, but maybe whatever tuning strategy they used would work for your ecu.

Wow. $5500 for a complete TT motor!??! Let me know if you find another one LOL. I was gonna sit on my NA for a year or two and then upgrade to a TT but if i come across at $5500 TT motor... well..... then... LOL. In my college years me and all my buddies all had old VW's ('66 and older). We'd drop engines and trannys all the time. I know it's not the same in a 996, but, it'd be cool project. I have 3 other cars at the moment I can drive. lol.

Quotes source post: 14709189

Just a heads up the n/a motor and turbo are two entirely different designs and are not easily swappable. OP has a daunting challenge in front of him.

Quotes source post: 14709530

Its been done. Read the rest of the post

Quotes source post: 14710377

I think you need to reread my post. I didnt say it was impossible, just daunting. There is a lot more than just swapping the motor out, that was my only point and pretty clearly said.

If you still owned the 71S I would go buy a TT and trade you even up for it

Quotes source post: 14710417

The 71 S would almost buy 2 TT 996, maybe a 997 LOL.

Nothing worth doing is easy. Now that being said, if one has more money, than they know what to do with then that would be a different story.

Quotes source post: 14710515

True - but sometimes that really difficult project still winds up being worthless. You sound very motivated, which is good...most people I know who have attempted DIY engine swap wind up (a) selling the whole mess as a "restoration in progress," or (b) pile everything onto a flatbed and haul it to their indy, where it winds up costing twice as much as it would have if they hadn't "helped" with the install. I haven't installed a Turbo engine in a normally-aspirated 996, but I have supercharged a couple of cars over the years that had NA ECU modules. In addition to being far from idiot-proof, it only takes one screw-up during tuning to bin the whole mess. Good luck, have fun, and if it doesn't work out, I have another motor I'm willing to part with for the right price, and it's even naturally aspirated.

Not exactly what you're talking about, but this just came up on BaT: Twin-Turbo '99 996: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1999-porsche-911-17/

Quotes source post: 14710515

'Atta boy. I want a ride when it's done.

Quotes source post: 14710776

Nice.

I did say I would post back with results took some time tho, and still at work at it. Anyhow it's alive. You Tube

Thats great! Would love to get a rundown on what all was involved. Especially for the ECU part. That is going to be a fun ride!

Subscribed! Nice work on getting it running

I wondered what happened. Thanks for the update.

Quotes source post: 15820266

Thanks for the cheers, Not a task for the faint of heart truly, I like to thanks pete95zhn for all the input he gave to start the project. I changed the route somewhat. ended up using a harness meaning rear cab ecu to engine harness. It made worlds of difference. That bit of info came from a tuner contact I got from the 996 turbo forum. Aside from 1 person everyone else was great and I thanks them deeply as well. ECU is the normally aspirated system. Decided to use an external boost controller and use a for all other factors on the required system. Per the tuner I got a hold of all 7.8 dme's have the same pinout assignments, the difference is in the tune. but he did mentioned that getting a turbo ecu would be the best. Do to expenditure restraints I'll go the 1st rout. Anyhow wish me luck. Oh fyi the rear quarters have already been replaced the intake system is coming soon.

Good on you!!! That's gonna be a fun ride.

Quotes source post: 15820676

Normally, I would tell someone to avoid such a job, but more power to you! (no pun intended) Hey guys, don't be hard on the OP, at least he's not cutting the car for a LS swap or something.

Forgive my ignorance, but after reading tjrough, i was wondering why the ECU can't just be reprgrammed to that of a turbo? I am able to access and rewrite my Mustang's to that of another mustang model as long as I have acces to the online Ford files through VIN numbers. Can't do that here?

Quotes source post: 15822838

Per the tuner I spoke to, briefly to be quite honest. All 7.8 DME's have the same pinouts the difference is in the tune. That tells me yes it can be done but at the same point, what access if any will porsche allow, or give for that matter. Too point yes the tune in the dme or ecu is the difference. If you so venture this route with success. Please do not forget me.

Well, it took also of research to do this to the S197 Mustangs, and a 'cheater' access to FORD files through the network. But see in how old these cars are I just figured that someone would have figured it out by now and the files would be available ? Still, I have found not all modules in the car could be overwritten.

Quotes source post: 15823263

Any updates on the next steps? What's your next move?

Quotes source post: 15823263

The 996.2 N/A and the Turbo have different part numbers for the DME. That means there is a hardware difference between the two. Probably the Turbo has hardware for the MAP sensor and Boost control solenoid. You can load Turbo software into a N/A DME with Piwis, but it will not work properly. If two different size engines have the same DME part number, then the DME can be reprogrammed to the different software for correct size engine by simply following the Piwis prompts.

Quotes source post: 15847913

Yes it is different. I have a gt2 turbo ecu of course on it's way. I'll do the programming for the immobilizer, and call it a day for awhile.

We demand an update/burnout video.

Thanks for the interest, sorry to say no burnouts at the moment, but it does run and drives. Still in project mode tho, lacking many parts, which seam difficult to find. power steering hoses, and heater core zigzag line that run underneath the car. Seams like La Dismantlers gets rid of or destroys them when they are salvaging any turbo car. So still in the hunt for those.

Quotes source post: 16116655

Was it worth it, would you do it again? How much have you invested in this project?

First quest. Has it been worth it. With some heartache I say yes somewhat, Would I do it again keeping in mind how cheap I'm in to it yes, and that seams confusing I know but part are a pain, as you very well know this isn't a chevy. How much have I spent? I haven't tallied everything yet, but keeping in mind what I'm accomplishing, the rout I've taken and taking as far as body and engine not forgetting interior I'm low, very low in investment. Hope this answers some curiosity.