New Z06 Faster than a 911 Turbo Around a Track?

Corvette Z06 beats Porsche 911 Turbo around track http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/10/...-around-track/ There's no questioning the fact that a Chevrolet Corvette Z06 is one of the fastest sports cars in a straight line. But previous 'Vettes failed to keep up to their supercar competitors when track got twisty. Countless road test have shown us the new Corvette is different, but some perceptions take a while to change. As more evidence of the Corvette's newfound handling prowess, the Z06 managed to beat the Porsche 911 Turbo around a challenging track in Sweden. The tests were conducted by Swedish auto magazine Auto Motor & Sport, and the Z06 beat the 911 Turbo around the track by 2.6 seconds. The Z06 completed its run in 1:27.5, while the 911 took 1:30.1. At most corners, the Z06 was traveling at a higher speed than the 911, and pulled higher cornering Gs. [See the full Swedish-language PDF here]. http://www.automotorsport.se/biltest...615/061501.pdf

Wow.....but who cares.....it's still just a Chevy.

I have some more goodies... some lucky bystander was filming all of these cars testing on the track. Follow the link for the YouTube vids. http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/10/...es-new-bmw-m3/ Spy video: Porsche 911 GT2, Audi R8, MB CLK Black Series, new BMW M3 The car fanatics at Germany's Autoholic shot some great footage of several hot new cars you've probably seen in recent spy photos here on Leftlane News or elsewhere. The cars include the forthcoming Porsche 911 GT2, the Mercedes-Benz CLK Black Series, the 2008 E92 BMW M3, and the recently-unveiled Audi R8. The video not only shows the cars in motion, it also provides a great sample of how these new cars will sound. The footage was captured at the famous N�rburgring test track in Germany. See all the action after the jump�

There was a recent magazine test report (either C&D or R&T) that compared the Ferrari 360, Porsche TT, and Vette Z06. The vette outperformed all three overall but was chosen 3rd place. The mag admitted it was a faster overall car, however, not as refined, balanced, or "driveable" as the other two. They basically said that in the hands of a professional, the Z06 has the performance, but from a realworld perspective, the 911 is much easier to control and maintain control of under hard driving. On top of that, park all three cars in a parking lot and see which ones get the gawks - the vette still comes out third (and the 911, as pretty as it is, still isn't as rare a sight as a 360). On a related note, I was just in Las Vegas and went to "The Drive" behind the Sahara. For $10 you can run 4 autocross style laps in either a Vette (not Z06), Solstice, GTO, or Caddy CTSV. I drove the vette, CTSV, and Solstice. The Vette felt a little soft out of the hole but had a decent 2nd gear (with outrageously long shift travel). Handling was pretty neutral, but you really had to pay attention. Even with their traction control, I was still able to swing the tail end out a bit. Overall it wasn't bad, but I'd still take my '02 C2 over a '06 vette for the same money.

not the least bit surprising. If you gave me the choice of either for the track I coudln't jump in the ZO6 fast enough. Taking a corner at 10/10's with That kind of power on that wide a track sitting in that position must be an experience! Now for the drive home from the track, I'll give the keys to the Z06 to the next guy. From the outside the Z06 looks no different than any other Corvette. A car that simply does not have looks to match its performance. Very very far from "true exotic" looks. Kind of sterile and cheap looking. I'm no fan of the new 911 front end styling with the VW Beetle esque lights (big pitty they did away with the Turbo headlights the best ever me thinks) but this is unfortunately the first time maybe ever that I prefer the interior of Chevy to that of Porsche! I also find very peculiar that the Turbo has nearly the same interior as the CaymanS/Boxster. For that kind of dough I want something on one else has, but really who cares.

I have gone up against a C6 ZO6 on the track (at RoadAtlanta). The ZO6 is a great track car. I give GM alot of credit for building the ZO6! This car was stock with DOT cmpd tires. I was able to start behind it, pass him and out-drag him on the back straight! I have a modded 996TT with about 500HP running on street tires. I have also tracked against a Ferrari 360 CS with F1 shift. He was not much of a "challange" either.

All that grip and the Vette doesn't even run on training wheels like the Turbo. As Porsche quality and performance continues to drop, looks like other manufacturers are pushing them to the side. Porsche needs to get away from the AWD and lighten up their cars.

Wow, no ****. Did you even read the post? Its like the muslims saying they will kill the pope when he says the religion uses the sword too much. Its called Irony.

ZO6 is one BA machine!!! It's still not a Porsche. I think a Vette guy will even say that.

Thanks for the video Who cares about the Z06, It's that R8 that sounded awsome

...and the sound from the 997 GT2 gives me the shivers

And I'll say that again: "I don't care, it's still just a Chevy!" I can honestly say, I will never buy a Corvette, not even the ZO6. I personally don't like the design at all, so it doesn't matter what it can do. There is a looooong list of cars I'd have a hard time choosing from before I end up considering a Corvette.

Exactly... you can take the Corvette out of a pickup track but you can't take the pickup truck out of a Corvette.

wow did I stumble onto a Honda forum??

No, the honda forum goes something like this: "The Saturn Sky is still a Saturn...It'll never be an S2000"

That actually made me spit water on my laptop.

I have to say the same thing moving from a 2004 Honda S2000 to a 996 C2. Night... and day difference. What's this... torque?

Imagine how fast that Vette would have gone if the driver took off all of his gold jewelry....

Corvette. BFD. I agree with others - would never buy a cheap, plastic, POS, GM car.

Or didn't have to lower his speed to stop his toupe from flying off.

For all Porsche Owners... Top Gear Race with James, Hammond, and Jeremy The cars: Porsches bought with only 1,500 british pounds http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGPR...elated&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GT-k...elated&search= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbhC-...elated&search= Probably the funniest thing I've seen

Why's everyone dissing the 'vette ? As "car enthusiasts" (vs "porsche poseurs") I'd have imagined the rest of us folks to appreciate it ! Brand loyalty shouldn't be some form of ego-boosters. "mine is a porsche, you're is a chevy" ! Look at the cars, the technology, the potential. I've driven the regular (non Z06) 2006 corvette (in tiptronic!) and I think its got a much better torque band than my regular 996 (non turbo). While the 'vette's "there" - I wouldn't ever trade my C2 for the 'vette - its not as much fun ! I also love the 'supercar' like shape, although its not as exotic as the the F430 or the Gallardo. I personally think they should shape the Z06 a bit more exotic ... bring in the italians to design it ! Technology wise, you guys do know that the Corvette has had magnetically controlled suspension with response times near 10 ms ? That's the fastest response times and its supposed to be really good. In fact Ferrari's next F430 will be using the same technology. Chevy had it 3 years earlier. Also, Chevy has what they call "displacement on demand". Basically makes a their monster V8 into a V6 under "normal" driving conditions. They simply deactivate 2 cylinders and seal it off to reduce energy consumption (energy used during the compression stroke is returned to the crankshaft during the expansion stroke). Overall, I'm REALLY impressed with what they've done with the corvette over the last 2 years. Seems like Chevy IS really interested in making cutting edge car technology and making it cost-effective. Sure they make the most TRASHY pickup trucks (= their money maker) etc - but there is something about their 'corvette' division. Anyway, I used to diss chevy a lot earlier about their "muscle car" approach to fine motoring ... but guys they're on their way to whoop *** and their putting out positive results and technology to back that. Its really forced ME to rethink the way I think of the corvette. I think it would benefit GM if they cut the corvette into a seperate brand name and also put a $100K plus "super super" car there to compete with the F430 (brand wise). Bottomline - competition in the sportcar sector is good for everyone who considers them a true car enthusiast ! Cheers !!! Sid

That Audi looks like a monster - holy ****. Also, the M3 needs some new rubber - it looked fast, but it was screeching around those corners... God bless the Germans.

DIMNSLOW - thanks for the top gear links, I almost needed an ambulance I was laughing so hard. What a job...

Yeah, I hadn't seen those videos before. Pretty cool. As for the Corvette, sure, it's a great car for the price-performance point - there's no other supercar that you can get for that price, but the thing is that it's still a Chevy. It shouldn't matter that it's a cheap piece of plastic, but it does. Sure, you can admire the achievement of making such a car available at such a low price, but it's still a cheap POS. We can admire the achievement without wanting to own it. I'd take a Stingray over a modern Corvette any day, as it was a more solid car.

Asking "who cares?" is a silly question. There are a lot of people who buy cars because of their performance rather than the badge or the interior. I made my choice because it was a trade-off of everything: handling, (driver) sensation, styling, interior, performance, cost, etc. If I cared a little bit more about performance and a little bit less about things like interior and styling, I'd be in a Z06. Alas. I do, and that's why I'm saving for a Turbo Well, maybe that's just to feed my torque addiction..

I think the latest 'vette is the nicest looking yet, and the performance cannot be denied. However, I am simply a Porsche fanatic. I like the 'vette, but when I see the price I immediately think about how much Porsche I could get for the same money. If I had $50,000 laying around to dump on a car today, I would either invest it into my 964 rebuild or start the search for a nice 356. I would NOT buy a 'vette. I respect the 'vette, but it doesn't inspire me.

I totally agree - that and the GT2 sounded fantastic I personally would have never bought one up until they released the Q7 and now the R8 R8 could be a like a beefed up cayman or a watered down carerra gt

Please, the vette is a great car. I own a magnetic red 2001 C5 cab and it is by far one of the most beautiful cars I have ever owned. It surely doesn't have the finesse of the (more than twice the price) twin turbo but it does have far more low end grunt and very satisfying endless tire spinning. It is also much more comfortable that the Porsche break your back seats. I am talking about the last generation here not the C6, and I have heard from owners is is a magnitude better than the C5. I love my Porsche, it is my first and I am beginning to really become a fan, but with all due respect to Pcar people, the vette is no pick up truck...

One thing the 911 has and the Vette will never have ... is the little dinky seats in the back... I know that I'm not alone in confessing that thanks to the little seats in the back I was able to "convince" the wifey that it was OK to buy a 911... even though it is a sports car it is practical enough to be a "family" car as well. Everytime I drive my 911, I thank the back seats (no pun...) for making my dream a reality... oh and my overjoyed kid in the back loves 'em too! The Vette can't top that!

Make sure your wife/gf/ whatever NEVER sits in the back though. The moment they do, they realize that those rear seats on our 911s are just built in child seats and grocery bag holders

I'm pretty impressed with the Big 3 lately. The Z06 is a great car, although a couple of magazine reviews have said the handling is a little "spooky" at the limit on the track. The Camaro should be good too, and the Sky/Solstice twins show that GM is starting to "get it". Chrysler have the bad-*** 300/Magnum/Challenger as well as the Viper, and Ford have really nailed the coolness-per-$ price point with the Mustang. It seems to me that there are still a few real car guys left in Detroit. As for Porsche - I love my 996, but I don't actually worship it... And if I only had $20k to play with, I'd be in a V8 'Stang tomorrow.

+10. The back seats in the 911 sealed the deal for me. I have two small kids... so even a two-seater is a non-starter for me. Plus they love LOVE the Porsche. It's "Daddy's SuperFast Car". My son wants me to drive him *everywhere* in it and when I pick them up from Daycare.. he drags the rest of the boys out to see it, over and over again. Aside from the fact the car is A BLAST to drive.. my kids love it too and honestly, I care more about that than anything else. Corvette simply CANNOT compete for my needs. What also amazes me, is why these little 4-year old boys find the Porsche such an exceptional machine. Iv'e certainly not paraded PCar photos in front of my boy but when he first saw it he went nuts (and that was over my metalic gold 964, not the 993!) Ah well. I guess someone has to buy a Chevy..

I really don't care about marque or status or being seen with the "in" car...I am really just a part time farmer and anyone who knows me personally would agree...I appreciate Porsche's for what they are...I am always impressed with the engineering, whether it's a 924 or a 959...I have had and do have some Chevrolet products right now...The engine and drivetrain are a-OK but they drop the ball in every other area...Interior falls to pieces,brakes suck after 2 or 3 years and the steering and suspension get wobbily. It is why they are less expensive initially...The real question after a few years of ownership will usually be "How can Porsche afford to sell a 911 for $85,00-90,000". The next logical question will then be "How come I paid 55-60,000 for a Vette?" The Vette will always have more torque and HP...dig out some Road and Track magazines from the early 70's...2.4 liter 911S vs. 454 Vette...same arguments,same outcome,same conclusions and dis-agreements...Which car do you wish you had today? Which car is likely to still be running?

Autoweek, 10/16 p 2, just did a short article on the new 'Super Vette'. It is supposed to be at 650 hp from a 6.2 liter engine. Rumored price is $100,000 with 1500 - 2000 units per year. My guess is they will sell every one they make and the first batch will go well north of sticker.

There was a recent magazine test report (either C&D or R&T) that compared the Ferrari 360, Porsche TT, and Vette Z06. The vette outperformed all three overall but was chosen 3rd place. The mag admitted it was a faster overall car, however, not as refined, balanced, or "driveable" as the other two. They basically said that in the hands of a professional, the Z06 has the performance, but from a realworld perspective, the 911 is much easier to control and maintain control of under hard driving. I also recall reading that article, and I have a different perspective. Who needs any of these cars in the "realworld" which I believe means for the street or public roads. The only sports car that I know where you can explore most of its performance on the street is a Miata. The cars listed have far, far more power than any responsible driver would use on public roads. Furthermore anyone who is driving a 3100 lbs car with around 500 lb/ft of torque had better be highly experienced if he intends to drive the car beyond 80% of its capabilities. BTW highly experienced is not simply taking a two day performance driving class. Unless someone has lots of track time and preferably a racing license, none of the referenced cars should be driven to anywhere near their limits.

Brant - As someone who has owned two vettes and two 911s, I have to disagree with some of what you posted. The last 911 I owned was a 993 and that was without question the best sports car that I ever owned. I also owned a C2 and C5 Vette. The C2 Vette was a piece of garbage. It looked great but the quality was very poor. The C5 Vette on the other hand was a great leap forward in the quality and performance department and from what I've read the C6 is also a good sports car. Let's not forget that you can get a nicely equipped C6 from Kerbecks for around $48K after the discount. A comparably equipped 997 will cost at least $30K more. It's interesting that you referenced the '70s in your perspective of the two cars' performance. Actually 1971 or 1972 was the last decent performing Vette for at least a decade. The combination of Federally mandated air pollution standards and Insurance premiums on high performance cars almost killed the Vette. I can't recall what the straight line performance was for '72+ Vettes but I'd be surprised if they were as fast as a 911.

Fast1, I have heard the newer Vette's have come a long way...I am not wishing GM or Chrevolet any bad will, i am just sometimes frustrated that they drop seem to drop the ball on the details...Competition is what makes all cars (Porsche included) better for us as consumers and I hope the Porsche management picks up the pace as well....

Then we are on the same page. I couldn' t agree more.

Can't help but jump into the fray here. I've owned and driven both marques, and you couldn't have more of an apples to oranges comparison. They're at completely different price points, aimed at different markets, and made on different continents! Both are great cars in terms of performance and value. A friend of mine owned a GT-2 and the latest Z-06, and drove them both to the limits. The Z-06 is VERY fast, probably faster than the stock GT2. It also does not feel nearly as solid or inspire the confidence that the Porsche does. Much of that probably comes from build quality. The Z-06 is nearly 65% cheaper new than a GT2, and 40% cheaper than a TT. There's a reason why the Vettes look and feel cheaper - they are! Still, any production car that puts out 500HP/500lbsft that can just as easily be driven to the supermarket in traffic every day with no issues, and sells for half the price of similarly powered exotics is an engineering feat worthy of respect and praise in my opinion. I own a 1966 Vette convertible, which I've had for fifteen years. It doesn't handle anywhere near as well as a Porsche (including those of it's vintage arguably), it doesn't have much road feel, but put the top down, stand on the gas, and hear her roar as you slam rock solids shifts through a Muncie 4-speed, and you just might understand what made the Corvette marque famous. The downside of course is that I had to save up for the gold chains and toupee to go with it, and I have to fight off bleached blondes with fake hooters at every stop light. As they say, membership has a price.....

My 2003 C4S is going off lease and I plan on replacing it with a new car in March. I drove a new Corvette last week, mostly as a lark as I am a hardcore Porsche owner on my 3rd new car from them and I have taken all three to the track for driver ed weekends. (a 993 C4, Boxster S and the current car) The Corvette is very impressive. It is really fast, comfortable, looks good, sounds great and has lots of nice features including a better ride. It was completely solid over bad roads. It has a removable roof panel too! Loaded with the Z51 handling package and all the bells and whistles it stickers at about 53K and actually sells for 50K with a 100k mile warranty! In short, it is a great car and an unbeatable value. The 997 C4S that would be the current equivalent of the car I am driving is essentially TWICE THE PRICE. In short, the Corvette is a compelling product and a triumph for GM and the entire American auto industry. I plan on buying one with pride. Now all I have to do is find things to do with the 50K I just saved......

Now all I have to do is find things to do with the 50K I just saved...... Put it in a good mutual fund and your $50K will be $100K in about six years. On the other hand if you put the extra $50K in the Porsche it would become $20K in six years. That works out to an $80K delta. Any wonder why buying expensive cars is an emotional rather than rational decision?

Isn't it the case GM intentionally sells the Z06 Corvettes at a loss?

Interesting. I've never heard this. It might be a loss in terms of motor development costs, but they figure the technology will trickle down to lesser models and pay off that way. For those of you who might not be familiar with the history of the Corvette, it wasn't always associated with cheesy guys and gold chains. At its inception in the 1950's it was a limited production car that was intended to compete with European sports cars and act as a marketing magnet for dealer showrooms. In a way, it was a precursor to cars such as the new Ford GT and the Dodge Viper. It had its own design team and manufacturing facility in Bowling Green headed by Belgian born engineer Zora Arkus-Duntov. I'm no automobile history expert, but I believe that the Corvette led the US market in many novel technologies such as fuel injection, disc brakes, and 4 wheel independent suspension. If you drive my 1966 Vette next to any of its contemporary US muscle cars (GTO, Camaro, Mustang, etc), it's light years ahead in terms of handling and technology. I heard the reason it doesn't have a trunk was due to the fact that the design team had a limited budget, and they made the choice to spend the money on disc brakes rather than designing a trunk. Anyway, GM corporate bean counters finally realized that the Corvette could become a big money maker in its own right, not just a specialty vehicle. So after about 1969, they took away most of the power of the independent design team and milked it as a cash cow for the next decade. Essentially, the technology in the Vette did not change from 1968 until 1982. It's that era that gave the Corvette it's lackluster reputation that still lingers to this day. To some degree, the engineers and designers at Chevrolet have been battling this stigma ever since they got serious about performance again back in the early 1980's. Here's a link to a bio of Zora Duntov if you're interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov

Anyway, GM corporate bean counters finally realized that the Corvette could become a big money maker in its own right, not just a specialty vehicle. So after about 1969, they took away most of the power of the independent design team and milked it as a cash cow for the next decade. Essentially, the technology in the Vette did not change from 1968 until 1982 As I posted earlier it was the Federally mandated pollution standards combined wth the huge surcharge that Insurance companies placed on high performance cars around 1971 that crippled the Vette's performance. Porsche wasn't affected nearly as much because the 911 was powered by an engine that was less than half the size of the Vette. Not surprisingly the sales of the Vettes declined so precipitiously in that time period, that GM seriously considered discontinuing the Vette. So it was hardly the cash cow that you suggest in the '70s. For those of you who might not be familiar with the history of the Corvette, it wasn't always associated with cheesy guys and gold chains For anyone with a brain larger than the size of a pea, the Vette isn't associated with "chessy guys with gold chains". There's about as much truth in that stereotype as there is in the one that Porsche owners have small penises.

You didn't grow up in the New York tri-state are did you? Around here it's a stereotype because it's true.

...and I know a fair number of very nice guys who also fit the stereotype.

This is not accurate. Here are some Corvette production numbers by year: 1958 - 9,168 1959 - 9,670 1960 - 10,261 1961 - 10,939 1962 - 14,531 1963 - 21,513 1964 - 22,229 1965 - 23,562 1966 - 27,720 1967 - 22,940 1968 - 28,566 1969 - 38,462 1970 - 17,316 1971 - 21,801 1972 - 27,004 1973 - 30,464 1974 - 37,502 1975 - 38,645 1976 - 46,558 1977 - 49,213 1978 - 46,776 1979 - 53,807 As you can see, they actually sold more Corvettes than ever post 1972, with 1979 being the highest sales in the history of the marque. In the late 50's and early 60's, they had only been selling about 10,000 cars per year. It was the explosive sales growth of the new Stingray model in 1963-1966 that brought the Vette greater attention at GM headquarters. Plus, they put very little in the way of development funds/effort into the car after 1968. The 1979 version is essentially the same basic body design and rolling chassis a decade later. The earlier models had been completely re-designed every few years.

Actually, this stereotype was considered so prevalent by the early 1980's, that it was a topic of serious discussion at GM when the Vette got its first total redesign (C4 released in 1984) since the 1960's. I only know this because I did a Harvard Business School case study about it, in which some members of the Chevy marketing department participated. I'm fairly certain that most of the people in the room at the time had brains larger than peas. BTW, my friend who owns the GT-2 is a long time Porsche owner, and his wife informs me that he does indeed have a small *****. Of course this is only a sample of one, so I won't extrapolate the data....

No I didn't, but I know quite a few Vette owners since I'm a former member of a local Vette club, and I can assure you that none of the guys that I knew fit that stereotype. As a matter of fact my recollection is that roughly half of the Vette owners were either past or present owners of 911s. You could have some fun conjuring up a stereotype for that group. There are literally hundreds of thousands of Vette owners, and I can't believe that anyone would seriously believe that more than 1% of them would fit the stereotype. I live in MD and most of the Vette drivers I see are guys that are in their 50s and 60s, and not a gold chain in the crowd. Strangely enough when I see an older guy getting out of a Vette, I feel that the guy is desperately trying to recapture his youth, but I don't have that feeling when I see older guys driving Porsches. I'm not certain why I have that perception, but it could be that the Vette has more dramatic styling whereas the 911 is more elegant. It's because of that perception that I can't see myself buying another Vette since I'm in that 50+ age group.

I was going by my recollection and the stats that you present are surprising. It was either '70 or '71 when the Insurance companies imposed their surcharge. I owned a '70 Vette and my Insurance climbed from around $200 a year to almost $400 a year. I believe that it was around the '71MY when GM started to add those contrapions on their engines to meet air polution standards, and HP went down precipitiously. The sales in the mid '70s were especially surprising since we were in the midst of those oil embargoes and the Dealers had to almost give away their high performance cars.

I'm kinda sorry I made the "gold jewelery" statement earlier but it is indeed the norm in our area if you had a Corvette...I will say that the Vette owners who race with us in NASA events do not fit that stereotype but the average Vette owner is tragically going to fit the old mold....I'm not surprised the GM board had concerns...some old fat ex-drag racers probaly bought a few also!

If you read the numbers sales dropped to less than 1/2 of the previous year when you compare 1969 to 1970. Sales did not rebound to the 1969 level until 1975. Seems to me what you recall regarding early 70's sales was pretty accurate. Maybe Chevy's C10 production went up and the needed the frames for there.

Speaking of Corvettes, check this out... http://www.johnchow.com/index.php/co...ered-solstice/ Corvette Powered Solstice! "Hard to believe a big Corvette V8 can fit into a car no bigger than a Mazda Miata. The installation looks like a factory job as well and Mallett Cars, the creator of this monster, backs up their work with a 2 year 24,000 mile warranty."

Not to be argumentative but I used to own a Miata so I know them well. Two guys in my sports car club are very successfuly comaigning Solstices, so I've check them out pretty carefully as well. They are MUCH larger than a Miata. There is an amazing amount of room under that huge hood. All that BS spewed... sheesh.. a V8 Solstice...

Sorry, forgot to mention that was just a direct qoute from the article. Scary though huh?

Depends on the drivers!

If it was me you will find me very quickly wrapped around a tree.

LOL. Just a little.. maybe they were thinking of some new 4-door Miata I've never seen..

Guys speaking up from experience of older corvettes vs older porsches suffer from the fact that their judgement is coloured by past experiences. I'm too young to know how vettes/porsches in the 60's,70's and even 80's were to have clouded judgements. But what I do know is when I drove the C6 and the 996 last year ... the C6 is really really nice. Guys - drive the two cars back to back and under "sport" settings mode ... your feelings about the new 'vette will certainly change even though you may not want to admit it !! Remember to block out everything you know about the old vette's when doing so. I still went 996 but if I had to buy a second additional sport car under $50/60K NEW it'd buy the 'vette. (Actually I'd let it depreciate for 2 years and then buy - my heart felt philosophy about cars). Or maybe the Maita for fun !! But yeah, I hate the fact that they label it as a Chevy when they churn out crap pickups on one end and also deliver the awesome C6 at the other. Chevy needs to fold the new 'vettes under a new performance/luxury brand to compete with ferrari and porsche in the minds of people (they're already competing and competing well in performance ) PS: Just to clarify, I still prefer the 996 but wow! - the C6/Z06 is a worthy opponent. Keeps things interesting.

But yeah, I hate the fact that they label it as a Chevy when they churn out crap pickups on one end and also deliver the awesome C6 at the other. Chevy needs to fold the new 'vettes under a new performance/luxury brand to compete with ferrari and porsche in the minds of people (they're already competing and competing well in performance) Actually Corvettes are built at their own site in Bowling Green. If Corvettes were sold and serviced at Cadillac Dealerships, I would seriously consider one. Although there's no doubt that there are some bad Caddy Dealers, my expectation is that most of them are comparable to the one near me which provides outstanding service. There's a Chevy Dealer about a mile away from the Caddy Dealer, and I wouldn't take a beater to that Dealer for servicing.

Corvette, albeit the best example yet of any Chevy, still has to prove its speed around the track for the next 30 years to start matching the long-term performance of the Porsche. There are plenty of cars that can outrun the Porsche. But only a few production cars can say that they have been able to outrun Porsche consistently over the last 30 years. In my book, Porsche is #1 in the following category: Best Production Daily Driver Sports Car Ever. Porsche is not the best touring car, nor is it the best race car, nor is it the most reliable car. Corvette is also not the best in any of these categories. The C6 is the only the best sports car Chevy has ever made. And probably the best bang/buck of anything on Earth.

seems like lots of automakers use the C6 platform to do their own things... http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/10/...ettes-at-sema/ Anteros to show rebodied 'Vettes at SEMA Independent coachbuilder Anteros will unveil three new Corvette-based sports cars at the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA) auto show later this month. The vehicles feature design cues from the 1960s, which Anteros calls the "golden age of sports cars." Anteros XTM Roadster, Anteros XTS Targa, and Anteros XTR Hardtop are built around the Corvette Z06 chassis and powertrain. So far, the company has only released images of the XTM Roadster, with sketches of the XTS Targa and XTR Hardtop. All three cars have an output of 550 to 650 horsepower, depending on the supercharger configuration. Fuel economy is as high a 28 mpg, according to Anteros.

my experience from owning a C6; fast car, jammpacked with power - got on the freeway, punched was sitting twisted without sliding (body twist). 2nd gear failed at 3k miles. navigation quit working. squeaks and rattles. absolutle EPITOME of GM brakes. why can't GM make decent brakes? no thanks. sold.

I have to say I love my Porsche but I also loved my old Corvette and till my Porsche proves otherwise my old Corvette was the most reliable car I have ever owned. With that being said Chevy did skip some things for the price but overall it is a great car but I will keep my Porsche. I say congratulations and hopefully this will result in better and faster Porsches in the future, ie spend some of that record profit on your customers instead of buying out your old family at VW. (Just my 2 cents)

I say congratulations and hopefully this will result in better and faster Porsches in the future, Competiton is the key. Some car buyers will always chose a Porsche over any other manufacturer for a variety of reasons, but there are many others that closely scrutinize a car's price and performance before they buy. Based on everything that I've read Porsche is eager to expand its market share, and to do so they have to build cars that are competitve and the competition is intense and getting more so. In the November issue of Road & Track, they list what's new for '08 for several marques. There was a blurb there about the '08 350 Z which will have a 3800 CC engine producing 350 HP. With the right suspension and brakes, that's going to be a quick track car that will probably sell for around $35K or about the same price as a high mileage '99 996.

2008

Don't blame chev for selling a car that at least head to head in handling and straight line performance for 50k less, blame porsche. That's why they had to lose their elite performance car status and now build SUVs, and apprently are going to put out something that looks like a sedan to help keep the company above water. They're finding fewer and fewer people who are willing to pay more for less.

I'm very impressed with the performance of the latest Vette. If i were to buy based strictly on price per performance the new vette just might win. Alas, I don't do that. Since I was a little kid (27 now) there were three sports cars my friends and I drooled over. At the time we of course were not aware of the companies different models, we just knew them as Ferrari, Porsche, an Lamborghini. In retrospect we were really talking about the 911, the Testerossa, and the Countach (we're in the 80s here). I chose the 911 because I can now afford one. A Corvette just isn't the same thing to me. Looking at technology, performance, the data..the Z06 is a great car. I respect them and my Porsche is no better or worse in my books. That being said....I love my 911's character and history more than the vettes.

That's why they had to lose their elite performance car status and now build SUVs, and apprently are going to put out something that looks like a sedan to help keep the company above water . Porsche is the most profitable car company in the world, followed by BMW. The reason that Porsche builds SUVs is to increase their market share, and not to keep the company above water.

I was taking a walk in my neighborhood the other day and a new black Z06 pulled up at an intersection next to me. It was almost dusk and the sight and sounds from that car were amazing. I wouldn't mind planting my rear in one.

I suggest you read just this one web site to understand the Corvette's racing heritage which is a little more than 30 years old. http://www.corvettemuseum.com/specs/...gHistory.shtml Whilst I am Porsche guy I attend motor racing events and the Corvette is a successful racing car with a glorious racing heritage. GM even made a special limited edition model just for Europe a few years back. The Corvette is well respected as a racing car and with its distinctive sound it can be heard above everything else for miles around at 2am on Sunday mornings at Le Mans. At Le Mans this year (2006) one of the Corvettes finished fourth overall. As for the road car versions up until the new one, the past 30 years have produced nothing but "plastic" Corvettes all of which have lacked any quality. Mind you there are over two thousand here in Switzerland alone. Personally I would never own a road going Corvette, but a former successful Porsche GT-3 racer switched to the C5R Corvette this year and in the results department he has not looked back, starting with third in his class at Le Mans. It would be nice if one day Porsche decided to field a GT class car which could go up against the Corvettes and the Aston Martins, but the Porsche teams are having more than enough trouble dealing with the new Ferrari F430s at the moment. Ciao, Adrian. PS: The National Corvette Museum has a long history of running Porsche/Corvette events in conjunction with the PCA. These events have dwindled in recent years and sadly before I could get to one.

I've had 4 Vettes, '64,65, 66, and '98. I raced the '65 SCCA and was the most fun to drive of the bunch. Very forgiving and great fun to toss around, remember bias ply tires. My biggest complaint is not with the Vette but with the GM mentality from the showroon to the service dept, MORONS ALL. If GM woud take Vette away from Chevy it would be a new ball game. Chevy is in business to sell tons of grocery getters, not sport cars. I'm sure there are a good percentage of chevy dealers that are not even certified to work on the new ZO6 and the ones that are are questionable. JFWIW

You must be reading different monthly sales reports than I have been. The ones I've seen in the last half decade indicate rising sales and revenue, indicating that there are more people, not fewer, purchasing Porsches these days.

I totally identify with this. THe other day at a DE, a guy brought out his Testarossa, and tracking around with that was immense fun. I admit to numerous Miami Vice flashbacks. On the other hand, the 'Vette was always the "other" car, especially compared to the 911. For me it is like the Super bowl: Corvette is a great car, but for me they are the OTHER TEAM! hehe

Porsche is the most profitable car company in the world, followed by BMW. The reason that Porsche builds SUVs is to increase their market share, and not to keep the company above water. That's even worse, shows they've left the elite sports car market, they're just like BMW

gold chains and small peckers. you guys crack me up.!!! sadly, the corvette forums seem to be way more concerned about Cobras than P-cars. but then i guess we know when we have been out done. fine euro build quality goes a long way when it sits in the garage its whole life. POS or not i am here to say, on the track a Z06 will give most anything a run for its money. and if i read the title of this thread correctly,

HA! Good one.. I for one like the way the C6 looks and it's power. Magazines have been giving the C6 track praise since it's been out so the title of this post does not surprise me.

Well... to add on to that, check out this Top Gear video about the new Z06... it can outrun a line of gasoline lighted on fire! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp6VQpG8CRE

Your implicit premise - buiding SUVs and exotic sports cars is incompatible - is invalid. Reaching out to larger markets will help Porsche to be more profitable, thereby enabling them to build better exotic sports cars. The market for two seaters, and the 911 is essentially a two seater, is tiny. To make matters worse virtually every manufacturer is now offering a two seater model. Audi, BMW, Porsche, Mazda, Nissan, Lexus, Toyota, Lotus, and Honda build a two seater. Jaguar makes what is essentially a two seater model, and GM's Pontiac, Chevy, and Saturn brands offer two seater models. It would be suicide if Porsche focussed all of its energy on this one tiny market segment which has ever increasing competition. Rather than letting other manufacturers cut into their sales of two seater sports cars, it makes a great deal of sense to me to have Porsche cut into the sales of BMW, Audi, Jaguar and others by offering high performance SUVs and sedans.

Hillarious, "Fast food menu".

I wouldn't mind a C6 as a third car, but my wife forbids me from owning a Vette (thanks, no doubt, to her father's midlife Z28 purchase). The 50k savings is compelling, though...

OMG.. I just finished lauhing myself silly. My buddy (he has an '80 Targa) has been telling me and my pal Steve (I'll just call him Mr. Corvette) about that races as Seca this past weekend. In closing he sent me this story about him, his two boys (Eric -10 and Max - 4), a semi-adopted son of our dearly departed freind Tim (Jack - 11) and well.. you read it.. I was in tears imagining this scene..

No doubt a glorious racing heritage, but I'm talking about non-modified cars that Grandpa can purchase from a local dealer. I'm talking about consistent daily driver production cars. Sure, the early 427 Vettes were fast and fun. But through the 1970[s and part of the 1980's the stock cars were smothered. Sure the Vette dominated the SCCA Escort Endurance Championship for quite a few years, but then fell on it's face in later years until the C5 arrived. When you compare the base models, over the last 30 years the Porsches have been more consistent in Performance. My point is, GM is has been pouring money into Corvette and Caddy and winning races, but GM could soon be in a world of hurt and they can just as easily pull the number 8 cylinder plug wire on the Vette and Caddy. Of course, I don't want that to happen - I would love to see Corvette run like this for the next 20 years. Then I will be impressed.

I am afraid you have lost me. What is your criterea for judging or comparing overall consistence of daily driver base model production cars? I do not understand what you are saying. Are you comparing Price? Reliability? Quality? Engineering? Design? Innovation? Power and Torque? Handling? Safety? Cup holder installations (that's a joke by the way). If you are saying that Porsche sold higher quality sports cars over the past 30 years into the market I would totally agree, but we paid for this choice. I don't know how the sticker prices compared over the past 30 years, but I believe the Corvette has usually been around 50% cheaper and that is an impressive bang for the buck deal, if you like big V8s up front. However whether you or I or anyone else likes it or not the Corvette is an icon of American motoring and is recognised around the world as the epitomy of American muscle cars just as Porsche is recognised worldwide for its top of the line superbly engineered (well mostly) sport car range and SUVs and soon its 4-door sedans. We should not be surprised though that others have caught up with Porsche given all their track experience of recent years and Porsche's somewhat lack lustre approach to motor racing since 1998. By the way GM looked quite healthy based on their results posted today on Wall Street. I do not see GMs factory racing programs getting anything but larger. They are racing in ALMS, LMS, Le Mans, WTCC, BTCC and are talking about making a comeback into the DTM and maybe other series here in Europe as well. I wish Porsche were as active. Ciao, Adrian.

Adrian - Very well written post. I like most of my car enthusiast friends have owned both Vetets and Porsches and I simply can't understand the need by a small minority on both sides who believe that they have to rationalize their decision to buy either car by disparaging the other one. With the discounts now being offered by Kerbeck, anyone can buy a fully optioned '07 C6 for around $50K. That's at least $35K less than a similarly equipped 997. Although at my age I just don't see myself as a Vette owner, I certainly would never criticize anyone who bought one. $50K for a car with a 400 HP, 400 lb/ft torque engine that has performance comparable to cars costing $30K more, is hard to overlook by any car enthusiast.

Last time I post something about a Z06 on the rennlist site... I almost bought the C6 myself when I was in the market, the "looks kinda like a Ferrari from the front" looks. The updated interior, and the torque, boy... the torque. Unfortunately I couldn't get over the fact that it's such an... American car. I personally never bought into the whole American Icon thing.

Yes. Icon is not the same as quality or performance. Ronald McDonald is an American Icon. That's because they sold off large portions of the only American money-making business they had.

I grew up with Chevys. I still have a 1949 Chevy Pickup Truck, 1968 Chevy Nova and 1970 Chevelle 454SS. They hold a special place in my heart and always will. I also worked for GM for the last 4 years. So, don't get me wrong, the Vette has always been a unique and fine car, but only recently have they been able to match the performance and reliability of the Porsche in terms of non-race cars. Let's hope they can continue to do so in the future at a lower price point that the Porsche.

Mmmmm... McDonalds... I haven't eating there for a while. I wonder how their McFlurry still taste. On the other hand, that clown always scared me. Something is wrong when a clown can pull in $300K/year

My first Vette was a 1970 model and it was a piece of junk. I bought a 911 a few years later and I thought I was in heaven. Although my 911 cost considerably more than my Vette, the 911 was far and away a better car in every measurable way, with the exception of staight line acceleration. Although I don't own a C6, I have had the opportunity of driving one for an extended period of time and they are a blast to drive. On the street there's nothing like having lots of torque. Moreover, the C6 that I drove had around 20K miles on the odometer and it was absolutely rattle free. The Vette has come a long way, and it is certainly a worthy competitor to the 997, especially when price is considered.

The challenge with these discussions is always how to benchmark 'faster' (sorry if this was covered elsewhere in the thread... didn't read all seven pages). A lot of bench racers in Europe like to compare lap times on the Nordscheife because of the varied terrain and road-like character of the course. Here's a list of the fastest (without prejudice to the source). It's kind of interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordsch...test_lap_times

7.39 - Porsche 997 GT3, 415 PS/1395 kg, (quote sport auto 05/06) 7:48 - Porsche 997 GT3, 415 PS/1440kg (sport auto 07/06) 8:28 - Porsche 993 C2 8:39 - Honda S2000 8:42 - Lotus Exige Oh wow, I would have thought the Exige will have been much faster around the twisties. What's up with the two 997 GT3 times, removing 45kgs makes that much of a difference?

So what constitutes a "Production Car?" The Radical SR8 doesn't 'look' or 'sound' production. I can go to any dealership and buy a Z06 or 997, but what about these Radicals and some other cars?

Maybe they're 'homologation specials'. Anyway, the data is a bit of a free-for-all. Different drivers, no control for track conditions. It's just fun to see how cars stack up as 'fast' when you throw in real world circumstances like curves and whoopdedoos and who's doing the driving. Apparently, the magic bragging rights number is 8 minutes. I think it's pretty cool that someone came within a few seconds of that in a plain ol' 996 C2.

dimnslow: the exige is a great car but compared to the GT3 and 415 hp, no contest. My GT3 has been in the shop for 6 weeks now so during a lapping day I rented an Exige. Fun momentum car, reminds my of early 911s.