Which is quicker 996 or 964T?

I have always been a fan of the 1994 964 Turbo S. I was wondering how much faster and fun to drive is it against a non-turbo 996(of which I own). Has anybody recently driven both? From reading Rennlist I understand that the 996 is a lot more "civilized" but does that make better than 5-10 year older turbo?

You may also want to post this on the 964 & 964 Turbo Forums.

interesting comparison

HP: 964T=355, 996T=415 Wt: 964T=3241 lbs, 996T=3396 lbs 0-60: 964T=4.5s, 996T=3.9s top speed: 964T=174 mph, 996T=189mph 1/4 mile 964T=12.9s, 996T=12.2s Those are the raw numbers published by Porsche, as well as 1/4 mile. The 996T is a whole 10 years more advanced in evolution, as far as suspension, brakes, chassis, and drivetrain and all other matters related to performance. There is also no question that the 996T is easier to drive fast. So, the raw numbers say that the 996T would be faster, and in the hands of mere mortals like you and me, easier to drive faster. My money is solidly on the 996T

Ooops. Sorry. I just realized you said 996, not 996T Stats 996: 0-60=4.7. top speed=177, 1/4 mile=13.1s. With the same comments regarding 10 year evolution and ease of drivng fast, my money is still on the 996. Just for entertainment, not that it has to do with anything other than we were having fun, here's a short vid in watkins on a 996 C4S and a 964T: Watkins

964T, esp '94

I have a soft spot for those 964's. Driven my buddy's 964T thats packing around 500ph and I can tell you its faster than the 996. After jumping back into my 996 right after driving the 964T, I feel that the 996 is much more nimble and willing.

Fordo, I own them both. My 03 996 is smooth and tourqey.And I believe it is close in speed to bone stock 3.3 Turbo even though it doesn't feel it. Not true for a 3.6T which I also have. Now with some very modest mods the Turbo blows the 996 away and even a the 3.3 is waqy more fun to drive .It is much more visceral and is way more fun and makes me smile when I'm in it. Thats my 2cents. Elliot

The 3.6L Turbo is faster in a straight line but I think the 996 may be able to beat it around a track. Thoughts? k

I don't care. That white 964 is a beauty! The 02' 5 spokes are aesthetically perfect.

Thanks for the responses and the video. I kind of thought that the 964T would be a quicker car. I guess I just need to drive both.

Wow, that 964 is spectacular. I've been enjoying my new C4S so much lately I've hardly driven the 964, but that turbo is incredible. Plus, you'll get mad props from the Porsche guys 'cause your car is so damn cool...

The 964 T is the best looking 911 ever,.....IMO the 964T is faster than a NA 996. It's got massive torque with the increased hp.,....that was the car in my poster growing up. GREAT, GREAT, GREAT , GREAT car. Can you tell that I have a softspot for them cars. having said that it may be possible in certain tracks the NA 996 may be competetive with the superior chassis, brakes etc.

haha! I'll tell you what... you take a 996 and I'll take a 965, and we'll go to the nearest track... The turbo would eat a 996.

The 964 Turbo is quicker then even a 997 and just as quick as the 997S. Looks better too.

Oh, Oh.....you better have some experience on the track man, unless you are an instructor or in the higher groups in this case the car will not make up for the difference....which is the closest track for both any ways,....may be R.A.,.....I'll be in the gallery watching. I assume you still have access to a 965, and hopefully RA has open days. I know for certain Nelson ledges do, so may be there (sort of far away for you). Also, you've edited your initial post, with that kind of an attitude I was curious whether you are filling in for your daddy on this forum.(I was about to say don't speak for your dad, but you've wisened up, so I can assume you have a valid driver's license,...because that would have been the final requirement). Hopefully Palting is up for it. So, if you have an access to the turbo and can make your way to a track and Palting is up for it, the lunch is on me. Discalimer: I do not condone such challenges,......

jeeva, that's awfully tough talk coming from a guy who drives a C4S

This is a GREAT and FUN comparison! I too have a huge soft spot for the 964 Turbos.....not the 3.6 Turbos, not the Turbo S' but the regular '91-'92 Turbos. Currently I own a 99 996 which I race in PCA and PBOC. A few other members down here have non-modified 964Ts and on the local tracks, I can tell you that we are very close in acceleration down the straights. I would actually give a slight edge to the 964Ts because there is absolutely NO DOUBT that a 996 handles MUCH better and therefore, I can come out of a turn faster (especially now that my 996 has suspension upgrades). Overall, the 996 handles and brakes better than the 964Ts and given the same driver around our tracks here in S. Florida, the 996s are quicker! Same with Autocrossing where the 996 has an even greater advantage. On the other hand, you have to give the 964Ts an A+ for fun and character. Along with the 92 Cup car, the 91-92 Turbos are my favorite 911s.

Jeeva, notice how people make statements without supporting arguments? That's hot air. pcar 964 doesn't know what he is talking about. Never has. What's that saying? "Ignorant people will take you down to their level, then beat you on the head with experience". Just ignore him. If one looked at those stats and the responses from resposnible intelligent posters (meaning everyone except pcar 964), it's a close call that will go either way. That's what makes it fun!. That is a picture of one gorgeous 964T, there is no argument!!

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Hey, Pcar....what you are saying is exactly what I'd expect from someone who owns a 993. Just, kidding my fellow 993 brothren,....sorry for offending you folks.

Hey, no bad blood here... just because some people need the assistance of 4wd and PSM to handle a 911, doesn't mean they're bad people

hey, it's not my fault, that some are stuck in the sixties......some of them are not bad people either, they happen to dislike progress, that's all,...that's totally cool with me.

I also use an abbacus and churn my own butter

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Pcar, I'll take that bet. You can pick the track.

Hi, Pcar...one inside scouting report for you,...what ever you do don't pick Putnam park,...Jim was the Porsche club race winner for his class, by the way the 3.6T is categorized in the same class as the NA 996 for PCA racing. I don't know whether he's won at other avenues, but that's the best I can do for you man. Good luck.

Wow, This thread went crazy. My opinion on the track is 90% skill 10% car. I like my 996 but my white 3.6T car is set up for the track ,suspension,brakes, and about 420 hp. Believe me given equally skilled drivers a NA 996 is no match for it, not to mention fun factor. Here is the same car in track dress. Elliot

PCar, my money is on JimB.

In all seriousness, I suspect (equally prepared, equally driven) a 3.6T and a 3.6 996 will be pretty close on the track. PCA thinks they are close enough to put them in the same class. I only know of one in Club Racing and he's pretty fast. We ran together at Road America last year. There was actually some great video of it floating around awhile ago. Jim

I suspect you are absolutely right, JimB. But, we are talking about you, drivng a 996, and pcar964 driving a 964T. Heck, my wife driving the 987S will probably pass pcar964 several times in one lap . Ooops. I did say ignore him, didn't I? Couldn't resist .

Quite a coincidence. Charlie, the 3.6T I ran with at Road America, just listed his car for sale in the racing forum. If anyone is looking for a great 964T track car you should look at this one. JIm

Oh, the blasphemy!!!! A 987 couldn't possibly pass PCar's glorious 993 at the track!! Everyone knows the PCar's inherent superiority would surely win the day!!

I enjoy a little spirited trash talking, but you guys suck at it The "challenge" I set forth was tongue in cheek, I don't have a 965. But hey if you want to take it seriously, then find someone with a car comparable to my stock 993, and get your "ringer" to come down to a track in Florida. I'm sure you can find someone, lots of RL'ers here. In the meantime, I would suggest you spend some time in a chat room for middle-schoolers, and learn how to trash talk! You're embarassing! By the way, the original post asked about a '94 3.6 Turbo S compared to an NA 996. Anyone who thinks the 996 would have a chance against a Turbo S, you must have an IQ on the shy side of 70.

Really??? I didn't know that. Thanks for the info champ.

I would think that the Turbo is probably faster, but then again the only 964 Turbo I have driven is a RUF BTR so my opinion is biased... I will tell you one thing, you need to have ***** of steel to really drive the legs off of the old school single turbos--if you don't know what you are doing, you'll kick into boost at the very wrong time and lose it bad...I almost wet my pants doing some spirited driving in my friend's RUF a while back!!

I guess your "IQ list" includes the good folks over at the Porsche Club of America that classify these cars for PCA Club Racing. They seem to understand that while the 3.6 Turbo, makes a bunch more hp it also carries around a couple hundred extra pounds and doesn't handle as well as the 996. They consider them competitive. 2006 PCA Club Racing Rules and Car Classification While you peruse that list you might also notice that the 993 is "classed" below the 996 in "D". The new Cayman is also in "D" and a few friends of mine (who raced at Sebring) told me it (the Cayman) looked fast. One would hope that a fellow Porsche enthusiast might look at the design success that Porsche has had with each of it's newer cars (from the 356 to the 901 and on up the line to the 987/997) and be happy. The current Porsche's are very track worthy and continue to out perform the cars of the previous generation. Additionally, Porsche continues to market dedicated track cars (GT2/GT3) that are extremely capable. I love the older cars (my first 911 love was a 1982 911SC), but I also love the new models and I honestly don't understand those (such as yourself) that carry around contempt for the new cars. Oh well, I guess I'm just glad I don't carry your "chip" on my shoulder!

Ray S, the link didn't work to the PCA rules. And I seriously doubt a 94 Turbo S (with 381bhp) would be in the same class as a 996.

Try this link

It doesn't mention the Turbo S. In any case, I'm still surprised they include the 3.6T in that class. If you could get the Turbo down to a somewhat reasonable weight, and throw a simple boost controller in there, then the story changes dramatically. I know PCA racing classes are based on stock boost levels for turbo cars, but that simply does NOT reflect reality. When someone asks what is faster, a 996 or a 964 Turbo, the obvious answer is the Turbo. In stock form, the bhp/weight is relatively close and the 996 chassis handles better. But who leaves a turbo at stock (0.7 bar) boost levels? Using a bone stock Turbo for comparison is a non-starter. I know this changes the argument, but I guess I never think of Turbos in terms of stock power because it's so easy and cheap to get more power. If I had to pick a 965 or a 996 to post the faster lap time, and my life depended on the outcome, I still pick a stock 3.3 Turbo S or 3.6 Turbo over the 996.

As I understand the rules, all US spec 964 3.6L turbos, including the S, would run in C at 3274 lbs which is the normal 964 turbo weight. If it is a euro spec car it would be progressed one class to B. At that weight it would have a power to weight of 8.59 which is slightly worse than a my X51 996 at 8.43. It would be fast but not that fast. If the Turbo S was allowed to run at it's listed weight I would guess that it would be pretty fast but stuck in B where it has to contend with the 996 X50 Turbo and GT3s. Great car. I'm not sure it would be a fast race car though. I'd love to find out if someone wants to borrow me one. Jim

Believe it. The 3.4 996 is probably a little outclassed in C (especially since the 997 was added). It might make sense to drop it (3.4) to D with a weight penalty. However, the 3.6 996 seems to be competitive for the time being. JimB club races his car in this class (a 3.4 car converted to 3.6 specs I believe) and has far more knowledge on this class than I do. Just to clarify, there is no question in my mind that the 3.6 turbo (stock) is a quicker car. However, I also believe there is no question the 996 handles better. It shows how far the new cars have come that a normally aspirated 3.6 liter car can even be close to sticking with a 964 3.6 turbo on a road course (IMHO). If you still can't access the link the entire rule book is available on pdf at www.pca.org

It's not just the suspension of the 996 that's pushing the overall performance close to or possibly even better than the 964T. The aerodynamics are markedly better (go figure - newer car). I was shocked at the speed of my 996 on the long straight at the local track. I'd previously driven a car that would trounce a 964t (even one running greater than stock boost) and the speeds I saw at the end of the straight were startlingly close between the old car and the 996.