Looking to purchase first porsche 2005 996 C4s

I've wanted a porsche for over a decade but life just now making that a possibility. I have never owed one and I want a manual car with more "raw" feel, but I'm no expert driver given lack of experience. My research / desires all pointed toward 993 C4s but I'm afraid to go that all in and want to drive this thing most days (will be an extra vehicle though) I am thus leaning towards 996 C4s and have found what looks like a good example near, 2005 (last few 996) C4s with 60k miles. Any thoughts or advice before I jump in? Planning PPI this week. Has original IMS, has wreck reported in first 6 months on life (11/2005) but no signs and man its feels good to a novice!

Post the sales listing (pics and more info on the car) and I'm sure you'll get lots of opinions.

Daily driving any 911 could result in large repairs and maintenance costs, so 993 vs 996 may not prove to show any large difference in running costs. Also, I would be cautious about buying a car that�s been in an accident. Resale will be tougher, and the price will likely be lower.

Chaz: I love my 2005 C4S. It has 56k miles, original IMS, manual trans with no reported accidents(for whatever thats worth!) Fun car and better looking than C2, in my opinion. I don't track it...old guy here, but every time I drive it, it makes me smile! Keep in mind these cars can be expensive to maintain without a major failure and they are 12+ years old. I am happy with my choice.

I bought my 04 C4S to DD all year (winter in Canada as well with a good set of winter tires). I use my truck for work (also work out of town a lot) and the wife and I often take the Wifes car so my DD really only gets like ~7k kms/year (I have a good weather summer car as well). Im on the original IMS (AFAIK) and just plan to do regular maintenance and should I have a major failure I plan an LS3 swap vs rebuilding the M96 engine (Flame on..haha).. Car has been good to me so far and is great to just get out for a drive. I havent got to take it out in the snow and -10 weather we have been having lately but I get back in 8 days and am looking forward to some winter driving in it.

http://www.triangle-imports.com/VIN/...edium=referral

WP0AA29945S620120 2005 Porsche Carrera 4S Coupe WP0AA29945S620120 Division: PCNA Commission #: 534000 Prod Month: 07/2004 VIN: WP0AA29945S620120 Price: $89,915.00 Exterior: Black Interior: Black Full Leather Warranty Start: December 18, 2004 425 Rear Window Wiper 586 Lumbar Support-Left Seat 680 Bose High End Sound Package A1 Black AH Black Full Leather CCW Belt Outlets B Pillar Alu. Lk M6A Black Mats - Porsche lettering P11 Self-Dim Mirrors & Rain Sensor P74 Xenon Headlamp Package XSC Porsche Crest in Headrest Y29 Aluminum/Chrome X71,X70,X54 Z0997 Custom Tailoring

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I agree. Although a cheap C2 is, well, a lot cheaper.

Looks very nice! A PPI is particularly important given the accident report. The accident report will probably affect resale price, but if you keep the car for a long time that's not so important. My advice would be to replace the IMSB right away if you go ahead with the purchase. It really sucks to lose an engine. IMHO, the Solution is the best option for aftermarket bearing. Impressed that the seller is offering a 6 month warranty - this certainly adds value. I noticed that the ad specifies RWD - the C4S is actually AWD (unless the front drive has been removed).

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That�s my approach with the IMSB as well. Financially speaking, it�s a better approach. If one were to purchase 100 of these cars and proactively replace the IMSB, they�d spend a lot more money than if they just left it alone and replaced failed engines as they came along. However, the LS3 versus a replacement used engine hasn�t been settled for me. I suspect I could get a replacement engine a lot cheaper than doing the LS swap, but that�s not a fair comparison when we factor in the power gains of the LS motor. The LS-powered 996 behaves more like a 996 Turbo, whereas a 996 with a replacement flat-6 is still a 996. The difference in upfront cost of the LS is probably worth it.

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Yeah my thoughts as well. I want the extra power and am actually somewhat possibly looking to sell the 996 and get into a 997 turbo.. I do love the 996 though so unless I get exactly what I want for it it will stay. The costs for the LS3 are going to be fairly high (I was quoted between 30-34k cdn for everything.. Shop has done multiple 996 LS3s.. Ive personally seen the progress on a C4 and C4S vert). But I mean if I do this and keep up with regular maintenance the LS3 is pretty solid. And the NA 480bhp would be no joke. Also if there were any issues with this engine its under warranty as well as replacement costs for a brand new LS3 crate engine is <10k.. To me it makes no sense not to go this way if any issues were to come up (I understand the purists as well and that its not designed and it does require some modifications to fit).. The IMSB is also only one of the many failures of these engines. So you spend the money on the solution and something else could happen.. Just my $0.02...

Great looking car and love the color combo. I too had wanted a 911 for many years and with the current prices of the 996 i felt now was a good time. I also wanted a widebody car and after much research and several months of looking, I purchased an 03' C4s at the beginning of September. I'm no source of infinite wisdom, as I was in your shoes just a few months ago, but here are a few observations that might be useful: 1. Before you buy anything, go drive a 996 C2 and a C4s: they are different animals. One day back in May, my friend gave me his newly purchased 996 C2 Targa for a few days because he's a jerk and knew i would fall in love become compelled to own one. It worked. I didn't have the luxury of spending time with an all-wheel drive 911 before purchasing, but it didn't take long to realize the driving characteristics are very noticeable, and honestly, i prefer the c2 for the quintessential 911 driving experience. Understeer and oversteer are much more pronounced and it's a lot of fun to induce both. The C4s is much more centered and unshakeable, it just goes where you point it and doesn't ask questions. There's no doubt I'd be much quicker around a circuit in a C4s, but I'm not a track guy, so that doesn't carry a lot of weight with me. I don't regret my purchase AT ALL, but the C4s is much more of a "standard" sports car and less of what I always romanticised a 911 to be. If this notion continues, i may remove the awd components of this car and have what i believe to be the ultimate 996 -- rwd, with better looks, brakes, suspension and that dead sexy rear end. 2. Full leather is a must and the car your looking at it has it. If this car falls through, make sure you continue to search for a car with it. My buddy's targa does not and it's a far cheaper looking/feeling interior.... and after all, that's where your going to spend your time looking around. 3. While exhausts are easily fitted on these cars, i really wanted PSE and got it. Love it. Love it. Love it. #becauseracecarlol 4. Now that I own one, I've joined the ranks of being overly paranoid that it's going to blow up at moment. My car has nearly 100k on the clock and as far as i can tell, it's original IMSB. The car is bone dry underneath, pulls like a freight train and a recent oil change shows absolutely zero to be concerned about (no particles of any sort found after dropping the pan, cutting open the filter, etc. etc.), but the M96 motors are just ticking time bombs, at least that's what the internet has to say . The car needed a clutch according to the PPI, so i plan to address the ISMB (amongst other things) soon, and perhaps by paranoia my subside knowing that there are only 28 ways of failure remaining on my M96 engine. All that to say, the more history you can obtain about a car you're looking to buy, the less paranoid you're likely to become after purchasing. 5. Do you wrench yourself? If so, these cars aren't too costly to own. Sure, there are a number of parts that can go wrong with a 10-15 year old Porsche that will have you digging deep into your pockets but the same could be said for any modern car. In my case, the PPI revealed about 8k worth of needed repairs (a new clutch/IMSB/RMS being half that). But I'm doing it all minus the clutch/IMSB/RMS and it will work out to cost me more like $5k once all is said and done. Couple of examples of what I've done so far: shop quoted coils/plugs at $900 -- i did it for less than $250. The coolant tank had a small leak as was quoted $1100, i did it for less than $200. I paid $22k and will have closer to $27k by the time I have the car where i need it to be. And I'll have the peace of mind knowing it was all done right. If the car you're looking at is devoid of any needed repairs and you can negotiate a bit and get it closer to $30k out the door, you'll result in a car with far less miles than mine and paying a very small premium for it. My $.02.

Thanks all, appreciate this input. The accident does worry me, but who knows what it means (CarFAX says disabling damage, left side with impact from other vehicle, but that could be a flat tire.... The car wasn't even a year old back then, only one other owner since that lease) I have negotiated to $30k (+/- tax/tags/etc...) I feel its a reasonable deal but hard to know, I think its close enough to pay for PPI and see what it uncovers...

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I would not pay $30k for this car given the accident history. A quick search on autotrader shows me several C4S's with 55-65k miles for $30-32k. So at $30k you are paying very close to the market value of a non-accident example. I'd want at least another $3k knocked off the price given the accident on the carfax.

"The C4S is not great in snow+ice." I was corrected by experts here on that issue a long time ago. I thought it would be a great ski-bum car. Nope ! Who new?

Recently purchased a 2005 C4S with 56K miles for $32,500. Just as a comparison. Definitely a different experience than the C2 I upgraded from, each has its pluses and minuses. You're going to love this car and the rarity of a 2005 makes it a tad bit more special.

But here's a beauty on Chicago Craigslist for $29,000 with 47K miles as another comparison.....

Update: Seller has offered to replace clutch and IMS For a total sale price of $32,500. I will do I PPI before and if this is the only issue, knowing about the wreck in the first year of the vehicle, what do you guys think about that price? My tentative plan is to keep the car Until another Porsche forces me to sell/upgrade.

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Clutch + IMS is worth quite a bit. I'd recommend getting the IMS Solution installed - even if you have the pay the difference. That way you're set and never have to worry about the IMS again. This should also aid in resale when the time comes. I daily drive mine. My only advice is to have a backup plan for if you're going to be without your car for a week or so - especially if you're going to do the maintenance yourself. I tend to always come across parts I didn't expect to need and the result is waiting 2-3 extra days for the local dealer to get them in stock, or for delivery. Good luck! Cheers Charlie

Chaz - HOLD off on this for a few minutes! I may know of a BETTER option for you just right down the street. You may want to PM me if you are serious. It's not my car, I just found out about a local original owner low mileage version that should be on the market very soon.

Personally, I'd walk because of the accident. Not saying that the accident is affecting anything, but you've waited this long. You might as well get one with a clear title. That being said, clutch + IMS is a good bonus. If you decide on this, make sure oil and filter are inspected for metal particles prior to swap. You might want to work something out where you pay for the while-you're-in-there extras while the engine is out for the IMS - (flywheel if not covered by clutch replacement, RMS, AOS, water pump, coolant expansion tank). As mentioned, I'd also offer to cover the difference for the solution. If you do move on, and you're planning to spring for the IMS solution on a 4S, you might want to take a look at the Turbo - which will NOT need to have the IMS swapped and allegedly has a very stout motor. It is still incrementally more, but if you were looking at the 993, the turbo is probably in your range.

For what its worth and to give the shop all credit deserved, they plan the LN Flat 6 innovation IMS solution and clutch... Not sure about flywheel... I guess the unknown wreck is what is throwing me... I'm torn, but leaning toward continuing the search...

If resale value is of chirf concern, an accident in a car's history is worth considering. Personally, I don't think it's a huge deal. These cars will never be collectors items. Maybe a pristine one owner car with 12k miles, but not a car that's been shifted a few times and has plenty of miles. If a close personal inspection, a lengthy test drive and a PPI come back favorably, I don't see anything holding you back. Seller sounds accommodating and that's worth something.

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I�m surprised to hear this. I�ve owned now 3 different RWD-only Porsches in the winter and snow, and with the right tires, they can be pretty decent. So the C4 cannot possibly be worse, right? Maybe it�s that folks expect it to be a 4x4 in the snow, and/or they rationalize that they don�t really need good winter tires because it�s AWD? I realize that the AWD system is designed for performance, not snow traction, but it still powers the rears I hope! Or maybe folks who aren�t that great of a driver in the snow buy AWD vehicles to help them compensate for their reduced skill, and they realize that AWD Porsche�s with summer tires are sleds in the snow. And then of course you get those �other guys� who have too much confidence and can drive any RWD in the snow no matter what and say �it�s fine in the snow.� Regardless, I�m guessing tire choice and skill still are the most important factors. I stayed away from a C4 because I didn�t want the additional complexity, but if I really was honest with myself, I�d concede that AWD, rear wheel steering, and all the other Porsche engineered goodness that we saw over the years and today really do add up to a slightly better car.

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This should be an easy decision IMO--walk away. You said you intend to sell this car down the road when you upgrade to your next Pcar--the accident on the carfax is going to eliminate 80% of the potential buyers. It will not be difficult to find another C4S with 60k miles and IMS done for $32.5k. And that would be a non-wrecked example.

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This is good advice. Don't be in a hurry. It's not a 959 gruppe B. I don't worry about mine. I drive it. 6 of 7 days a week. 15minutes to the office. 15 minutes home. Not long enough, I know. I have found this car to be dead reliable. could it all fall apart tomorrow? sure. If it fails, i will fix it.

**I apologize in advance for hijacking this thread, but... "I use my truck for work (also work out of town a lot) and the wife and I often take the Wifes car so my DD really only gets like ~7k kms/year (I have a good weather summer car as well)." ^^By definition, that's NOT a DD...

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let's not forget the hacking required for LS swap

If they're offering to replace these items, it makes me wonder how much they really have in this car ... clearly enough cushion where they can afford to cover the cost (though I wonder who will repair, somebody credible?). Suppose it doesn't really matter from your perspective, but just a thought. Good luck and hope things work out for you!

walk away from this car. There is no need in the world to pay a premium price for a car that has a wreck on it. Also, if you can afford 50ishk for a car get the 996 turbo. It will hold its value and has all the benefits and none of the downfalls.

Much depends on the extent of the accident damage and emotion. People who know noting about the accident damage on the car opine anyway. But that is useful because it indicates the prejudice there is against damage-repaired cars. That is why a Salvage title can be a bargain if the damage was superficial and correctly repaired. That is 2 BIG ifs. But they mean a price maybe 30+% below market. On an older car like a Porsche, the most trivial damge can cause a write-off because the replacement parts are so expensive compared to the value of the repaired car. We repair Jags , A.M. and BMW.

I am reasonably close to UDrive and can attest their cars are in IMMACULATE condition. They seem to be pleasant folks as well. I�ve been to the facility on no less than 3 occasions. However I am NO FAN of their pricing strategy at all.