feeble brakes

moved from a 993 to a 2001 996 3.4 2 weeks ago..... everything's great apart from the brakes! I immediately noticed they were much less powerful than my 993, needed a much firmer stamp and even then having far less stopping capability. at first I though it was the disks/pads needing a good scrub after the car being on the forecourt for a while.. but over the last 2 weeks they seem to have got more and more 'spongy' to the point where now I'm braking for twice as long before a corner than in the 993. the car has a full service history and is in excellent condition. any advice/comments?

I am more impress with the my ex old 79 911 SC brakes than my 2000 996.

I would bleed the brakes. Sound like you might have some air in the lines.

Youve got a problem. My '04 996 with regular brakes is comparable to my 993 C4S with big reds.

The brakes on my fat, overweight cab are outstanding. Do an inspection to rule out any major issues, then rebleed with fresh fluid as others have mentioned. Cheers

I had a similar complaint when I switched from my 993 to the 996. However, replacement of the brake fluid really improved things.

Agreed you need to change your fluid or something else is certainly wrong. The Boxster S/996 brakes are outstanding.

LOL, the Boxster S / 996 brakes are no better than pathetic. The car weighs 3000+ lbs and has much smaller brakes than the 993 brakes which weighs alot less. The 996 C2 was the only left in the series at the end that had the small brakes. Even with cup car air ducts, Castrol SRF fluid and Pagid cerimac backed RS19/RS14 with bleeding every day, I can overheat the brakes in less than 2 laps at the Glen. The cup car weighs 500 lbs less and has MUCH bigger brakes... what this car needs

A boxster S weighs about 2800-2900 lbs. How much bigger are 993 brakes than 996 brakes? They don't look any bigger.

I have no problems with the stock brakes on my 99 c2. Original pads with 40,000 miles of hard driving. However, I use the gearing more for braking than the brakes. I plan on replacing them...if they ever wear out, with stock pads and rotors.

The 996 brakes are fine for street use and as Ed Newman said they are not the best for track use.

ED, Being an east coast guy I was hoping to run into you at the VIR club race. It would have been fun to compare our X51s on the back straight. As for 996 brakes, I agree with Ed that they are a weak point on the track but compared to 99.9% of all street cars including the 993 (I own one) they are excellent. If your 993 brakes were better then you have a problem with your 996. Jim

Speaking as a former Boxster S owner, I found the big reds on the Boxster to be absolutely the equal of the big reds on my '96 C4S 993. I have no 996 experience outside my GT3 running RS-19 Pagids. It has "adequate" stopping power

bob, the "big reds" on the boxster S, are merely 996 brakes w/ painted calipers. i've tracked my 996 for many miles w/ stints lasting 20-laps or more. i've always thought the standard 996 brakes were more than up to the task--in the same conditions, vettes and vipers would quit early to cool their binders. guys with quasi, full-race supensions and super soft r-dots or slicks will no doubt carry lots more speed and tax your brakes far more than the majority ever will.

Adequate braking is relative to power. The Boxster S makes 250 HP and unless modified handles pretty well. My 996 with X51 and GT3 bypass pipes makes 350-360 hp. Combine this with a coilover suspension and oversize hoosiers and the car runs much faster than the Boxster S at larger tracks. This inherently puts that much more pressure on the brakes to perform. I have driver the 993 C4S and find the brakes much better than the 996.

Adequate braking IS NOT relative to power but to weight of vehicle and speed. I know alot of guys waste their money putting bigger brakes on their cars because they increase it's horsepower. A car going 150 MPH with 200 HP will stop just as fast as the car would if it had 1000 HP. Larger brakes DO NOT stop the average car faster. They help disburse the heat and therefore may have less fade due to the heat. If you apply your stock brakes hard enough, your ABS will kick in or if you do not have ABS, your wheels will lock up. I guess some people would then decide to put bigger brakes on the car so they would lock up sooner?

You are correct that braking is relative to weight at the same speed. But braking is also related to speed and horsepower does relate to speed. At the end of the straight, the car with 1000 hp will be going much faster than the car with 200 hp and if they weigh the same and have the same turn in speed, the 1000 hp cars needs MUCH more braking. As for ABS, it is a great reducer in braking efficiency. It cycles the brakes and effective is only using the brakes half of the time. Tire traction is a better item and depending on the car, if you can consitently lock a set of hot tires up, you are correct in that the person probably does not need bigger brakes. As for those of us with 996's, most of us cannot even hope to see ABS or lock up on a smooth track with Hoosiers or MPSCs once the brakes start to get some heat into them. I am not sure how hard you drive, but if you start to push your car, I guarantee you will fin it lacking in stopping ability.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are correct that braking is relative to weight at the same speed. But braking is also related to speed and horsepower does relate to speed. At the end of the straight, the car with 1000 hp will be going much faster than the car with 200 hp and if they weigh the same and have the same turn in speed, the 1000 hp cars needs MUCH more braking. As for ABS, it is a great reducer in braking efficiency. It cycles the brakes and effective is only using the brakes half of the time. Tire traction is a better item and depending on the car, if you can consitently lock a set of hot tires up, you are correct in that the person probably does not need bigger brakes. As for those of us with 996's, most of us cannot even hope to see ABS or lock up on a smooth track with Hoosiers or MPSCs once the brakes start to get some heat into them. I am not sure how hard you drive, but if you start to push your car, I guarantee you will fin it lacking in stopping ability. __________________ The original question had nothing to do with tracking the car, but the normal operation of the brakes. For this purpose, the stock brakes on the 996 are more than adequate if not overkill.

All cars these days have adequate brakes for the street, if not DOT and NHTSA and a whole list of other organizations would be all over them. Re-read the original question. I read this as tracking the car. If he is braking that hard on the street, I am scared and glad he is not from around here.

i tend to agree with ed in that the 996 stock brakes is just "adequate" nothing more. i run motul 600, pagid orange on stock 04 996C2 w/ toyo DOT R compound. if you are "rough" on the brakes, they will really overheat and dramatically reduce stopping power. Compared my 996 with stock brakes to my 993 with big red, the 993 big reds are indeed better feeling on the pedal. though i have never tracked the 993 so i can speak about its track perf. on the other hand, i tested, on track, brembo 8 pistons on a GT3 on street tires. i think the brk way overpowered the tires. it locks up at the slightest touch. driving on a familiar track, i brushed the pedal and almost lauched myself through the windshield ;-)