895 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHThe "Ultimate AOS Solution"
Reported or suspected cause
aos or an aos
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Reported cause · Original poster
A lot of the cars that have issues on the track is due to a failing AOS or an AOS that has a delayed reaction like in the case of wkf94025 where his AOS tests fine with a manometer reading of -5.5 " h2o but has a 20 second delay where the crankcase vacuum is very high.
Leading evidence: 'aos or an aos' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'aos or an aos' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust blow-by' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Reported cause · Original poster
This is due to the atmosphere ports in the 077103245B regulator, it has two very large ports, one has an elasometer damper valve to control vibrations.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Reported cause · Original poster
I have so many small special tools that sometimes the biggest problem is deciding which one to use when several will work..
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion · Original poster
So keep just wrap it back on and tie strap it if possible, if it's too ragged don't worry about it, just tie strap the hoses back against the AOS tube, just will be a little more water in the Accumulator when you check/drain it, no big deal.
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
aos or an aos
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Reported cause · Original poster
A lot of the cars that have issues on the track is due to a failing AOS or an AOS that has a delayed reaction like in the case of wkf94025 where his AOS tests fine with a manometer reading of -5.5 " h2o but has a 20 second delay where the crankcase vacuum is very high.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Reported cause · Original poster
This is due to the atmosphere ports in the 077103245B regulator, it has two very large ports, one has an elasometer damper valve to control vibrations.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
895 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 2 adjusted by outcome qualification.
2 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
OK, I promised the "Ultimate AOS Solution" that would eliminate replacing the Factory AOS, but still function as designed.
CNC Black Anodized Aluminum Accumulator with Microprocessor controlled Infra-Red Sensor.
UAOS integrated onto engine
PATENT PENDING
Go here to order ..
https://ultimateaos.com/
Red shows to slot through to the outside, yellow shows the small hole to the channel where the Atmosphere port is located.
Cutaway Factory AOS
AOS flow regulator diaphragm and spring
Doing this first part Section 1 will eliminate the need to EVER replace the Factory AOS again, and will make servicing the AOS system a 10 minute very easy task..
Ok another feature of the Ultimate AOS Solution incorporates an Accumulator with a infra-red level sensor to be wired into the "low coolant warning" circuit to "slow flash" the red light in the instrument cluster warning of either low coolant or AOS service needed.
Should the AOS system needs to be serviced due to accumulation of moisture/oil or if the AOS regulator is failing the warning will "slow flash"".
Carbon Fiber Filled Polyamide 12 Accumulator, can withstand the heat of underhood temps and then some..
Complete UAOS assembly including a re-worked new AOS, Carbon Fiber Filled Ployamide 12 Accumulator, Infra-red sensor, relay, wiring harness, New Flow regulator, custom hoses designed to fit like Factory.
Sounds cool, but I am not sure mandating a donation to yourself in return for a �FREE� anything means you are not selling something. Might as well just charge $10 for your instructions. No shame in that atleast not where I am from.
Referencing this...
I only ask the you make a small offering to the Porsche Gods for continuing product development ($10? to
[email removed]
) and I will send you a free license for DIY building of one unit for personal use.
Good lord people, don�t you have anything better to do than troll the forums? PT3 is offering a license to diy something of significant value that he�s put significant r&d into with his wealth of knowledge for $10 so he can continue to develop this idea into real world product to offer. If it doesn�t appeal to you move the f on. It�s people like you that make those with knowledge to share less likely to do so for fear of this kinda crap. Not sure what entitled world you�re iving in, but do the rest of us a favor and stay there if you don�t have anything of value to contribute.
PT3: sounds promising and look forward to hearing more as this takes shape. While I don�t have an immediate need, I�ll definitely be in touch when the time comes.
Is it though really? people like me? I told him good luck with it and glad he figured out an issue. You on the other hand are saying non relevant and inaccurate statements.
Yea, it's about time, this issue has plagued many for so long, and many an engine has been replaced because of it, and many thousands of dollars spent on elective preventative measures.
PT3 has been around for too long to worry about trolling. I like the idea a lot. One look at the 997 AOS placement tells me Porsche whiffed on the 996 AOS location.
So could I then do this with an AOS of dubious condition and have a working system? I guess I would need to make certain no dirt has gotten past the diaphragm (if that is broken) or at least clean the innards?
Right. This AOS Solution leaves the part of the AOS that works great and doesn't fail in place, but moves the part that is notorious for failing to the most accessible place, and is rebuildable for near to nothing...
BOOM! Skip, you just won the internet today!
Arigato Gozaima****a
edit: stupid asterisks are for four letters that looks like chit but starting with a "s"
@Porschetech3
First, thank you for your innovative "cheap key" fix. And now this?! I'm in! And will be spooning some cheddar your way without hesitation. I am just learning this week about what a weak link the AOS is, and what a PITA replacement is, and along comes your solution. Bravo. And FWIW, I believe in karma and the Porsche Gods.
What do you recommend using to plug the atmosphere port?
RTV silicone?
Since we�re disabling the internal diaphragm, is there any reason to not use a cheaper AOS?
Maybe use a �ro AOS instead?
Yes rtv silicone will work, wurth fixall will be great to use on a new one on the bench. I actually have a Uro on order to evaluate, I believe since the diaphragm failing will no longer be a concern, it may be a nice frugal alternative.
This is a nice solution for easy maintenance of the AOS vacuum protection system.
But I am of the opinion It does not solve the dangers of sudden oil injection direct into the intake.
So far it is a maintenance solution but certainly not �ultimate� in my view.
You have no problem in the US with first publishing something and then filing a patent for it?
In the rest of the worlds IP system your post here on Rennlist became relevant prior art if you would pursue a patent.
Its not prior art for me since I am the Inventor ,In the US we have a 12 month "grace period" that other country's don't have. And also the reason I have not disclosed the best part of this system. If you were impressed with this you haven't seen nothing yet !!!
I love that his initial post got hate at first. That could only happen here. It really proves how stick in the mud so many people are.
Good work PT. Since my AOS is perfectly fine, I'm going to wait for the day you are selling a plug and play kit.
I challenge every member to make at least a $1.00 donation to help move this effort forward, Skip has been so helpful to all that have asked for help!
Try going to any Porsche dealership and ask for help...It'll cost you$$$
So my threat on AOS Life Expectancy just became irrelevant! Thank you so.much!! That's worth $10 just to stop having to monitor it 😋
My car goes in next week for an AOS test. So may get to try this right away.
How long do you think before you can reveal all? I'd like to do this all at once.
I will now recite three Hail Ferries for you.
Hopefully timing will coincide nicely with my rebuild. You really got my attention with the earlier teaser. Nice to see a first step...
It really is amazing the attitudes that some people carry around. That must be a hell of a burden.
I'm not a religious man, but I will kneel at the alter of the Porsche gods...
Everyone warned me when I joined this forum and purchased my car over a year ago that Porsche people were inclusive, snobish, entitled, arrogant, and just not nice. My experience has been the opposite. People like P3 share so much intimate knowledge, and others on the board have been so helpful. Too bad we have folks like the haters to throw a negative spin on things. I guess there's one in every crowd. Just happy that P3 is an adult and takes the haters comments with a grain of salt and continues to share his knowledge.
Tail pipe emissions will be no problem. . While I plan to make thing as "Factory Looking" as possible, and to be inconspicuous and blend in . Someone familiar with Porsche 996 will know something is different. I have heard that some Inspection Stations in Cali look under the lid carfeully.
Not knowing the full solution you have in mind, it might be worth a few hours on either end of a CA smog for owners to be able to revert to stock without too much pain or expense.
Removing or reversing the part of the system that I haven't revealed yet, would be easy and fairly quick.
The part that is posted here, the remote AOS flow regulator and plugging the Atmospheric port on the Factory AOS, would be to difficult/costly as once the AOS atmosphere port is plugged sealed, you would have to remove it and reinstall an unmodified one every year? That would negate the whole purpose of the remote regulator (ease of maintenance/expense)
Maybe if the visual will keep from passing Smog in Cali, you guys there will only be able to take advantage of the Safeguards that are design( that I cannot yet talk about)..Since they can be easily/quickly reversed.
Edit
: I just found this posted E-mail on another forum from 2018 from CARB concerning aftermarket AOS systems.::Hello Joel,
These devices do not require an EO from a Smog Check perspective as long as they remain a sealed system. The Smog Check exception referenced the original email is contained in the “Aftermarket Parts Verification Guidelines”.
Thank you.
So it looks like this whole system will be legal in Cali, but you may still get some slack from an uninformed Inspector..
If this Stage 1 + Final Stage solution works ,it is an astonishing achievement. Many very talented people have tried to improve on the AOS and none succeeded. Indeed we were advised not to bother trying since such talented people had failed.SO well done Porschetech3 !
There is a similar success story with the improved shifter and intake plenum .
Not so much luck with the SAI "Not Ready " issue.
Smog shops seem to vary a lot as to how zealous they are with the visual part of the inspection. For example, I've heard of smog techs using a mirror on stick to try and verify that your cat is CARB compliant. This is something I've never experienced. My smog guy looks for the obvious stuff like cone filters, headers and anything that is glaringly non-OEM.
PayPal sent
IF my AOS is bad (gets tested next week) i may not be able to wait for your final product and have to go the DIY route.
This new part appears to be a generic AOS? Saw it listed for BMW, VW, Audi, etc.
Looks like you take the factory AOS apart and remove the existing diaphragm so it's just an "empty" chamber. Then mount the new AOS part back by the intake manifold where it is accessable from the engine compartment for future servicing.
How do you route from the existing factory AOS to this new AOS? Would flexible hoses work?
If not, I'll ask my indy to do it or maybe I could buy a new one, modify it, and have him install it. I was planning to have my IMSB (LN Double row) replaced and have him install a new AOS. After reading about the frequency of new AOS's failing I was having second thoughts. My AOS is original and checks out fine with a monometer.
The NEW AOS regulator is not a generic part, It is OEM for several mid 2000's AUDI / Vw 2.8 through 4.2 liter though, may have even been used on BMW but I havent seen them listed when researching, very possible though,I did look at all BMW regulators, but the physical arrangements just weren't practical .
No need to "gut" the Factory AOS .... just seal the Atmosphere port. as shown in post 1
The inlet and outlet on the NEW AOS regulator is .700 (17.78mm) OD the AOS pipe that will be cut to unstall the NEW AOS is .850 ( 21.6mm) OD , so a little adapting is required, you may need to get a little creative. I used some 5/8 16mm .625 ID corrugated polyethylene dish washer hose, and heated it to 300F and custom fit it (stretched it). That will be one of my challenges in doing the Plug and play version is finding someone to make some custom hoses to look just like the Factory hose.
Just tossing it out there.. in order to install in a real inspection state ,, it will need a CARB sticker,,
It doesn't matter which state you live in,, if it comes up in one that does,, they can come after you
for modifying a federal emissions system, Love the concept but carb approval is $$$$ ,, A shop in Washington
just across the boarder form Portland got busted a few years back doing diesel swaps into F150's using F250 engines..
Cost them 10K per unit sold in Oregon.. They are gone..
I don't believe most would notice, its too hard to see.. And I would make it harder ..
It will likely need a "competition use only" heavily noted on the packaging and such to stay out of the way..
No different than the DEF systems on diesel engines, particulate filters,,, or fuel vapor canisters ,,
or all the other silly stuff that's come out in the last couple decades.
Yes, there is still water vapor going through there that could freeze in really cold temps due to where it is located, the 986 Boxsters use the exact same AOS but don't need the heater due to the engine is reverse mounted (AOS is in a hotter location)
It's always something isn't it?? lol Did you see the post up above where I posted the Response I found from CARB about AOS mods? From 2018, he said as long as the system is sealed it is exempted under the " Aftermarket Parts Identification Guide" , I think that means it's ok as this still works as designed anyway, only better.
If you jack up your rear end and get under the car, reach up and see if you can touch the area of the port. If you can touch it you can plug it.
I'll have my 6 speed up in a day or two and will be able to check for access, stay tuned!
In the mean time, keep the donations coming!
Disclaimer
I have no involvement with Skip ( P-tech) and his offerings...But I have had an AOS fail while driving!
Thankx Bill, I have sent out a couple dozen DIY License , If I have missed anyone , just message me
I appreciate you checking on the access, I'm just not as physically able to crawl around under the cars like I used to !!! I can still do a lot of things, just a LOT slower...lol
C.A.R.B. is an acronym for
California Air Resources Board
which is the agency that oversees the
California
smog program. I don't think other states are going to get worked up over whether some random part was approved for California or not. I personally wouldn't stress about this new AOS passing California smog. The average smog tech has no idea what a 20 year old Porsche engine bay is supposed to look like.
I'll have my tip cab at my mechanic Tuesday have the AOS tested and will have him look at access to the atmospheric port from under car. That would be nice to be able to retrofit the existing AOS with it still in the vehicle. But, there still may be an issue with running the new hoses to the front (back?) of the engine compartment.for the new AOS with the engine in the car.with a tip. We'll see.....
Unless your AOS pipe/hose is leaking, on a DIY just cut the plastic pipe/hose and install the NEw AOS regulator. The AOS hose/pipe has special Norma V2 quick connectors on each end that are damn near impossible to find !!
So I will have my work cut out to find someone to make custom Plug and Play pipes/hoses with Norma V2 quick connectors ,and also will be fitting another component/safeguard in the line also.(to be reveled soon.,( I can't hardly stand keeping a secret!!)
I can't find any source for the hose/pipe they use or a source for the V2 quick connector. Hoping I don't have to contract Norma to build the hoses I want !! That would be a PITA..
Some states don't even have inspections and some it varies by county. I've watched the local techs do my inspection, no way they would ever find this or think anything is up. First thing was OBD2 check and then they lifted it, checked for play in suspension, tires and brakes. Its really going to end up coming down to each individual station though.
Big Bucks?? Right...lol ...If had to contract Norma to build the hoses will send the price of Plug and Play through the roof !! and have to sell a million...
I think your right, as long as no bright red hose with chrome worm gear clamps are used..
I'll e-mail them tomorrow and see what the min order is, hopefully buying in bulk they won't be $20 bucks each...lol..If an get them I think I can get some oil resistant plastic tube and heat/bend/size to creat a factory looking hose..
Yea, I have their catalog but if you look at there site, you have to be a distributor to buy from them and they have no distributors in the US, so I'll have to find a distributor in Europe in order from them..
No. I've been saving nearly every cap/plug that has come on anything I get. I also worked in a factory that involved truck air-brake systems. There are a whole lot of caps on those air lines (and they were just being thrown out anyway). It's rare that I can't find something to fit any specific need that has come along.
Yea,, I hear ya.. ,, but my reading is that that is for vehicles
manufactured
2018 and later,, vehicles made before that its not clear,, In my state currently,, if its OBD2,, we can use a rental cellular tester and all it has to do is pass OBD..
but if I take it to the station they look for cats canisters, all the old stuff and if they don't spot it they may or may not let you by.. (Our stations are state run not garages.. )
At the end of the day the chances that you'll have a 911 expert looking are pretty slim LOL...
Our testers are mostly just average folks who had to take a training class and then boom they are experts..
I got out of testing once because they couldn't figure out why my Detroit locker equipped jeep
kept trying to drive off their dyno.. We finally got rid of the dynos a couple years back. Thank goodness,,
With my true-trac they went sideways and almost put it into the wall of the test station.. Got real exciting for a minute..
No I put the 2018 date on there that the quote was posted in 2018, so unless they changed the "Aftermarket Parts Identification Guide" in the last 2 years it should still be valid.
But that doesn't mean some knuckle head inspector won't give ya grief.
I'm not a very adept DIY guy, but I'm subscribed to this! I applaud that someone with the smarts finally tackled a known issue that's plauged us for decades. Innovation and creativity need to be rewarded. Well done.
Well Skip, as you already know, I had to get my car up sooner than later...
Yes you can reach up from under the car and feel the area that needs to be plugged. TIP, I have no idea.
Also for future AOS replacement, it will be much easier if you pull the bumper, heat shield and muffler, lower the engine to the cross member and you can see the AOS from the wheel well. I wish I new this when I replaced mine last year!
The simplest solutions are sometimes the best. This one is very simple, but it took the brain power of the Porsche Gods to think of it..
Thanks for that Bill.
Ok stage 2 of the Ultimate AOS Solution incorporates an Accumulator with a infra-red level sensor to be wired into the "low coolant warning" circuit to "slow flash" the red light in the instrument cluster warning of either low coolant or AOS service needed.
I have a guy setting up to do the Accumulator on a 3d printer to look factory, it will be about the size of a 4 1/2 inch long 2x4 with the appropriate hose connections and a drain, and of course the Infra-red sensor..Should the AOS system needs to be serviced due to accumulation of moisture/oil or if the AOS regulator is failing the warning will flash.
Looks like a promising solution for a long standing problem for these cars. Nice work.
As for the people worried about passing smog with this... unless Jake Raby is doing the smog inspections on 996s in Cali now, there is no way in hell a ref is going to notice (or be able to detect) this part.
Thanks . I wish I could "twitch my nose" and these appear just as I envision. My prototype, while it proves the concept in function. doesn't look all that "Factory".
My goal for the finished product is for it look as though an OEM built it
If the Porsche Gods would now just UPS me a couple hundred of these I would be in business.
Ok, my indy shop tested my AOS today and it is toast. Using the Jake Raby test (per his video) it pegged the manometer at 25! I'll be parking the car until this can be addressed. Not riskng hydro-lock
My car is a Tip cab. They put it up on the lift to see if they could plug the atmospheric port with everything as is.. But can not reach it as the transmission cooler bracket is in the way. They think by removing the rear bumper and muffler and lowering the engine (not dropping it) they can reach the port. Won't know for sure until they try it.
He thinks it might be easier and less prone to cracking the existing AOS plumbing by building a new "AOS system" outside the car and then installing it, disassembling it as needed to get it in place.
With the AOS failing as badly as it did I'll probably install a new one anyway, there may be a crack there already.
So, Skip, if you are looking for a "tip test mule", i know where one is sitting.
BTW, the county I live in does not smog check cars, so red hoses with radiator clamps aren't an issue.
I have a similar set up from the PCV to the intake on my Turbo Beetle. I keep a can plumbed in-line and check it every other oil change. Hadn't thought about the sensor, that would definitely be more value in our P-cars, I only ever see a couple of teaspoons full on each check. Wonderful Idea, Skip, seems like early detection is probably the most valuable tool in the arsenal here.
Clean what/where/how?
Also, what leaks when the diaphragm fails?
My recently replaced AOS might be where my oil leak is coming from but it looks like the lower hose connection is not airtight and seeps oil. Vertex sent me an aftermarket AOS (I ordered a factory Porsche) that I installed. They later sent me the real deal that's sitting on the shelf. When I take my old AOS vent tube and attach it to the Porsche Labled AOS it seats tight unlike what's now on my car...
I also just noticed (my AOS is different but the tube #4 is the same) on the diagram, part #22, my vent tube came with an O-ring already seated in it. Is #22 a second O-ring that I should have added?
Hi Bill, part #22 is an o-ring that comes on the hose, but is also available separate to repair the Norma V2 connector. If yours is the original 20 year old one, I may need to be replaced.
Any Idea what brand that aftermarket AOS is? Sounds like it does not have the exact same ID on the hose connector (QC), a difference of .010 can make a difference in o-ring sealing/tightness.
When the diaphragm leaks, Atmospheric pressure (14.7 psi at seal level) is no longer applied to the back side of the diaphragm, instead vacuum is applied. The keeps the regulator flow in the more open or full open position and can apply as much as full intake vacuum to the crankcase as much as -29inhg or -400inh2o during high RPM deceleration. This is why it draws oil up into and overcomes the oil separator chamber, the regulator must maintain a low vacuum on the crankcase, less than -15 inh2o / -1 inhg / -0.5 psi..Nominal pressure for the M96 is-- 5-7 inh2o, nominal pressure for the 9a1 is -15 inh2o.
More vacuum means better crankcase evacuation and more horsepower, but you must control the oil. Some race cars run as much as -15inhg or -200inh2o on their systems.
The 077103245B regulator I used for this system runs at hot idle on my car -6 inh2o and varies very little under all conditions, same as the integral regulator on the factory AOS.
As you can see az968gpw has a failing diaphram and has over -25 inh2o..
BTW the 996.1 and 996.2 AOS is exactly the same except for the lower 1/4 mounting area/oil drain. the upper 3/4 vortex, chamber, regulator is exactly the same.
Not sure (Might be URO) on the brand but the hose is Porsche and I can pull it off without pinching the connector. It's on as far as it can go and I can still pull it of without much effort.
The Porsche unit fits as it should, buyer beware!
I just checked their site and they no longer offer the non Porsche Brand.
If it's a Uro, it should be stamped on it, BTW, to my DIY Licensees Field Testers, don't buy the dirt cheap 077103245B regulators, buy the OEM Audi/Vw only..
Porschetech3;16340317]If it's a Uro, it should be stamped on it, BTW, to my DIY Licensees, don't buy the dirt cheap 077103245B regulators, buy the OEM Audi/Vw only..[/QUOTE]
I'll have to get the bore scope out to see what's stamped on the unit in place. But I just opened the new replacement they sent
It is there, It is hard to tell from your picture,Your pictures are even worse than mine !!lol but it looks like the index notch for the cover is in the same place as the picture I show. The Atmosphere port is under there.
You can also hold your hand/fingers on all the openings except one, then apply some negative pressure on and off and hear/feel the air going in and out of the Atmosphere port.
Yes, my battery died as took the second pic, I could put my mouth on it and blow/suck air. I could blindly feel the one on my car unlike this one.
This is the Manometer I got but it has no port/vent to the atmosphere...
https://www.testequipmentdepot.com/d...SABEgJrHvD_BwE
Any thought as it has no instruction but does mention "both ports on the back of the pkg. lol!
It's perfect for you. No way to screw it up.
Hook it to a nipple on your fill cap (with a hose, you didn't get). Turn the unit on. Run the engine at idle. Read the number on the display. If you have a range of units to choose from, you want it to read: inH2O (in w.c.). I bet you could find instructions on the web if you did some searching. It really should be simple. Have fun...
Oh, look. Here are the instructions:
https://www.testequipmentdepot.com/d...76a_manual.pdf
It's in the last corner of the last page. Disregard the information about the second port.
I'm not sure what you are saying/asking in regards to the AOS.
In regards to the Manometer, if you have a single nipple the Atmosphere port is inside the manometer and reads only measured pressure/vacuum. If you have a 2 nipple manometer , there is no internal Atmosphere port, the port you are NOT using becomes the Atmosphere port and the meter will read as negative or positive depending on which nipple you use, if you connect a hose to both nipples and measure at different places with different pressures the reading will be "pressure differential" and not actual pressures as there is nothing connected to Atmosphere. Make sense?
You have an old one that was replaced, and already have another failing? WOW, I wish I had my plug and play full kit ready for you !! Hang in there, hopefully it wont be too long.
Naw, that one belonged to another customer of the shop. His car was running strangely so they tested the AOS with the test set-up they had just prepared for testing my car, just to see if that might be a cause, and found that his AOS had failed. So the owner had it replaced. That's the one we looked at. Mine only has 22k miles on it since the engine was rebuilt, and i now know it's been failing for a while, so that's not many miles for a failure on a Porsche OEM part. Mine's not going to be replaced until you have the real fix ready. The car will sit in my garage for now.
The "new parts" that are being designed and fabricated (eg the oil accumulator/sensor) are all going to be in easy to get to places? I suspect checking/emptying the oil accumulator will need to be a regular service item, right along with oil changes.
Please make them better quality/durability than Porsche OEM AOS separators
Yes, will be a much better design quality than the OEM Porsche design. The Accumulator will be easy access and scheduled to be drained at oil change., also the new AOS regulator will be easy access should it ever need service.
The Porsche Gods will insure that it looks as they did it..
Yes, I have bought, dissembled, tested, and evaluated a number of these regulators. There is a HUGE difference in Quality, mainly in the diaphragm. I don't want the Ultimate AOS Solution to get a "bad wrap" due to the dirt cheap junk regulators.
I believe Skip also said he was going to look at some aftermarket AOS to see if a few bucks can be saved over the Porsche OEM one? Doesn't matter if the diaphragms are crap as long as the housing is durable.
I'm ready to order me some parts!
I have just finished evaluating the Uro brand 077103245B regulator and it is now approved for the DIY Licensed field testers as well as the OEM Audi/Vw regulator. It is surprisingly high quality compared to the dirt cheap junk regulators, especially the diaphragm is of very high quality when compared to these "no name" or "off brand" regulators. The diaphragm is the most important part of the regulator, as well as the silicone rubber "damper" that is located in the cover.
As az968gpw says the diaphragm in the AOS is no longer a concern, only the housing, I am evaluating the URO brand for that as I hope to offer an OEM version of the plug-and-play kit as well as a quality "budget kit" plug-and-play kit.
I know the Uro branded parts have a hit-and-miss type reputation on their replacement parts, but this regulator is an exception, it is VERY high quality...I decided to evaluate it due to reading reviews from Audi/Vw specialized Indy shops raving on the quality rivaling the OEM quality, they are right..
I don't mind avoiding the OEM Tax when possible, if the quality can be preserved..
The OEM Audi/Vw regulator is very overpriced (OEM Tax), the Uro is under-priced compared to Vaico or Melye and the other off branded stuff...
The Uro uses a PA upper and PA-GF lower (PA=polyamide (nylon) PA-GF= nylon/glass filled) just as the OEM Audi/Vw, and the diaphragms are identical. All others I have evaluated are either all PA, or not even marked (which is required on all plastics).. and the diaphragms are remarkably different.
Uro claims to be an OEM supplier to Mercedes, Audi, Vw, Jag ect, and claim to be involved in talks with Porsche to become an OEM supplier to them. It would not surprise me if Uro is the OEM supplier for this regulator to VAG, and would explain the lower cost since they would have already had been set-up to make them (at Audi/Vw's expense) so they have already made their money on this product. So the price they offer it for is just the actual cost plus profit, without the R&D and equipment set-up costs.
Yes, relocating the regulator to near the throttle body will make "Replacing the AOS" a thing of the past, along with the associated cost. And the addition of the accumulator with the Infra-red sensor is the "icing on the cake", and will assure no more M96's engines fail from Hydro-lock.
Update: the 3D print file for the finished accumulator is done and has been sent to be created in Selective Laser Sintering (SLS) process and will be made from Black Polyamide PA, should blend in well in the engine compartment and be inconspicuous. I have a few of these coming ETA :: 1/22/2020
Will have easy access drain plug for scheduled service during oil change if necessary, Infra-red sensor threaded in the side port , specialized interior balling, created using Selective Laser Sintering Process from Black Polyamide PA
Looks like you're off to a good start with prototyping. I have a solidworks professional license and 3d printer - more than happy to help if it's needed. A few things worth considering during your process:
Expect your printed parts to be roughly ~.015" undersized compared to your model. This shrinkage is a %, not a hard number, so you may need to fine tune the model till the print dimensions are within spec.
Vacuum/pressure chambers should not have flat surfaces - they need to be convex or ribbed to convex to avoid having the walls flex. (I don�t know what your wall thickness or surface areas is, but just something to keep in mind)
3d prints are brittle; the cyclic loading of the flat walls could cause longevity issues.
Will the printed part have a surface finish required by the seals used in the quick disconnects/joints/etc.
If the final product is planned to be machined, what I listed above probably won't be an issue. If you're going to print these, you have a lot less design constraints compared to machining operations. If you need help refining the model, just let me know. Can't wait to have this on my 996!
Thanks, I have the rough prototype on my car and is working flawlessly.
The accumulator vacuum pressure under normal operation is only about .2 psi, worst case scenario is 14.7 psi
George did a fantastic job of cleaning up my 3D file that did as a rough draft, he is amazing.
Do you have a Laser Printer that can do SLS printing Selective Laser Sintering ? The process doesn't need all the supportive structuring of other 3D printing processes..The accumulator needs to be Polyamide 12 like the other AOS components/engine parts.
Thanks JTT!!!..signed Dr. h.c. Porschetech3
To put it simply, the Ultimate AOS design takes the "original design" and spreads it out over of the engine compartment while adding an accumulator with a infra-red sensor into the middle of the design.
Leaving the original design" Vortex" in place means it will drain back to the sump.
Moving the "flow regulator" to near the throttle body means easy access since this is what fails 99.9% of the time.
Adding the Accumulator to the middle of the design to capture "abnormal" amounts of oil and set off an early warning by means of the Infra-red sensor.....It will be scheduled to be drained of "condensation" at oil change and be easy access.
The actual "AOS" as we know it will never need to changed again...
"The Simplest Designs are the Best" !!!!
For those who'd be more comfortable having this professionally installed, will it be a relatively simple matter to purchase it with instructions for Porsche Indy shop to install? Any guess on what a typical install might cost?
The install of the finished Plug-and-Play kit will be only slightly more labor to install than an AOS/hose replacement. Only added labor will be two screws for the Accumulator mounting bracket and 3 wires/posi-taps for the sensor.
Sorry, no SLS. (We do primarily all cnc machining operations on our production floor, so we just use the printer for scale models and that sort of stuff. No finished parts) I just use shapeways if I need a print that our ultimaker 3+ can't produce. Sounds like you got things figured out, so I'll stay out of your way.
Well, a few weeks ago I didn't know what Selective Laser Sintering was, (we each have our own skill sets). It's really amazing what they can do with SLS and thermoplastics and even mixing in metals that can replace metal parts.
If you want to look up more cool printing stuff, look up a company called Velo3D. Here's a photo I took one of their show and tell pieces - it's basically a titanium chain mail printed with no support material.
Velo3d is not like shapeways. They're the OEM for the printer, and unfortunately do not offer any job shop or private label services. Just figured it makes for some interesting afternoon reading since you were reading up on printing.
No, I carefully designed the interior of the Accumulator. The Infra-red sensor is shielded from all angles except from rising accumulation levels, baffles are carefully designed and placed in the lower section to eliminate sloshing of any accumulation with high G-forces. If the IR warning goes off, you can be sure its from enough accumulation to be a concern.
so I understand the goal here, you are attempting to basically move the part that fails from a hard to locate location to one that is more accessible and also reduce the cost of replacement by not paying for the whole porsche piece when all that fails is the diaphragm, right?
How though, does this address the failure of this item, especially when tracking the car? Are you postulating that by moving the diaphragm further away from the sump, you lessen the chances of oil soaking (and eventually destroying) the diaphragm?
The Ultimate AOS System is just a better design all the way around, any which way you look at it IMHO, don't you think?
I had an AOS failure on the track last year, I came in off the track for the noon lunch break thinking every thing is fine. When I went to start back up to go back out, a HUGH cloud of smoke rolled out and wouldn't stop,, it was quite embarrassing (and I'm not ever embarrassed by mechanical things) and startling because it could have destroyed my engine, (hydrolock). If I had had this system on my car then, it would have alerted me that oil was accumulating in the Acuumulator , and I could have drained the accumulator, grabbed my manometer, tested the" flow regulator" and installed a new one in about 10 minutes have it repaired "good as new" and went back out on track.. As it was I could have ruined my engine, and had to disconnect the AOS, plug the intake, and "limp" it back home, ruining my day., and almost my engine.
These rubber diaphragms are going to fail eventually, even the high dollar ($750 on 996.2 much more to adapt to 996.1) Motorsport AOS has one that will fail eventually. On this system, there is the vortex/ air/oil separator, plus the Accumulator that will keep the diaphragm much dryer and help prolong life.
So, the benefits are a)longer life, b)lower long term maintenance expense c) easy service d) early detection
I really can't think of a downside to this System.
So I guess the big question is, why hasn't this been done before?
These cars have been around for over 20 years and aside from the Motorsports AOS I haven't really seen another solution for a somewhat universal issue. I know the IMSB has gotten a lot of press but this is also a potential source of engine failure so surprised by the lack of available solutions.
Glad you're tackling it though!
Because I just recently thought of it??
No, seriously, it's not from lack of trying, I think everyone has thought about this problem, even Porsche has updated the Factory AOS at least a haft dozen times indicated by the revised part numbers.
I seem to recall a post here where Jake Raby has experimented with replacement solutions. He had a well explained rationale for why he never brought a solution to market.
I think this is it:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...l#post14198625
I'm excited that Porschetech3 is doing this. I love this kind of innovation.
Jake kind of summed it up right here (in the other thread^^^) "
Its a lot like being a song writer, you invent the art, but get the smallest portion, and the biggest liability. Luckily I do it for fun, and I make my living with other businesses that I own."
For the record, I hope PT3 is successful with this endeavor!
Question - from a non-engineer: Can a simple PCV valve replace the diaphragm? If yes it could do away with the need for a catch can and sensor. I am not aware of any other car maker (other than perhaps other German mfrs) that has so much trouble with a crankcase ventilation system.
Man, I hate to hear that, that's painful. Hope you get a better engine as a result of the repair !!
The simple traditional PCV valves and "fixed orifice " systems do not do a good job of evacuation the crankcase and adjusting for blow-by changes. They rely on either a fixed flow, or fixed flow with intake vacuum modulation. They are a recirculating type system and do not keep a consistent negative pressure on the crankcase. The ECU/DME fuel strategy has to be programed according to this system. I remember Jake stating he had a difficult time with the "long term fuel trim" strategy, Changing the fuel strategy will get the EPA pissed off.
The diaphragm type" flow regulators" use atmospheric pressure, spring pressure, and blow-by pressure to balance the crankcase negative pressure provided by the intake vacuum. They can adjust for increase in flow as needed and still maintain a consistant negative pressure on the crankcase.
We each have our own skill sets.
I was the lead troubleshooter in the Southwest Region for FoMoCo for a decade in the 80's when EFI and Electronic Engine Management was becoming widespread and commonplace in the automotive industry.
[QUOTE=Porschetech3;16360412]Man, I hate to hear that, that's painful. Hope you get a better engine as a result of the repair !! /QUOTE]
Cylinder one full of coolant, and a solid skim of oil. They sucked the liquid out and it refills on its own with no pressure, it "looks" he said
like its up at the head cylinder junction but couldn't make his camera turn quite sharp enough to get a good look..
Sucks because in every other way this car was a total gem.. really really clean.
Basically I'm going to do the motor,, but I have to balance the cost/lead time..
[QUOTE=pdxmotorhead;16361536]
The solid film of oil on the coolant is definitely an indication of the AOS being either directly responsible or the "straw that broke the Camels back" to the mayhem in cylinder 1. Most likely the cylinder cracked or blew out, I've never seen a head gasket fail on an M96, I've heard rumors of head gasket failure (but I don't believe them), I think the people were speculating. The head gaskets are Stainless Steel MLS, much stronger than the aluminum cylinders. I think some "Nickies" are in your future, so may as well "Go Big" on the rebuild. Sounds like bad timing with the move taking place, I would put the rebuild on the back burner and buy a 1k beater to drive till you can do the rebuild yourself, then sell the beater.
the good thing is the 911 is our 4th car,, we bought it for nice day commuting and the occasional romp though the canyons road trip.
It wasn't going to get driven much before spring anyway.. Our winters here are not bad,, rain mostly,,, but when it gets slick they sand the roads and that means rock chips.. So once the sanding started we had parked it..
My mechanic said he's had 1 other car with this type of leakage and it was cylinder 1 and it was a gasket & had a head crack.. After a AOS fail.
I'm expecting the crack,, which may have fubar'd the gasket area.. TBD
Are you running a catchcan now?
I will have a complete finished system with some nice pictures next week. I am waiting for the Accumulators to come from the 3D printing Co. I think you will like the looks.
Will be interesting to see the pictures.
I left this alone because of the emissions liability. Way too much risk for hardly any gain.
I play this part of the game by the book, and never take chances, especially with so many of my engine purchasers being in California.
Yep, that's why I kept my OEM catalytic converters. At smog time next year, I may have to put them back on to pass visual...sometimes it's a little over the top what we have to do out here (i.e. pass *actual* emissions, but fail the inspection due to non-OEM parts.)
The emmisions will be slightly better with the Ultimate AOS System. So the EPA should have no gripe,
but
I know the EPA can shut down a small operation easily if they want to, but they shouldn't want to. If the EPA wants to do the testing to see if it is more emmision friendly, they are more than welcome..It requires no re-calibration of the fuel strategy, and any accumulation in the Accumlator will be less oil burnt causing emmisions.
I just want to help keep some engines from failing, while putting out a better design, and hopefully making some cash for the effort.
Gotcha, more power to you. I won't touch anything regarding emissions, because you'll have to prove that it's "better" and that won't be cheap, or easy.
I am seeing people get nailed all over the automotive industry for doing modifications that break the rules. They are especially hitting diesel performance shops hard right now.
Yea, I have read about those, but those guy's were asking for it. They were selling emission defeat programs and programs to "roll coal" , they were flaunting it, and were probably expecting it..
Not all of them.. A local to me shop got nailed simply for doing work to increase fuel economy. They showed up on site, and basically raided the place, and checked every truck for work that had been done. They didn't even advertise, and still got nailed.
If I were you, I'd sell these to a distributor, and let them deal with it :-)
lol....Every time I'm searching for something and it comes up on Ali Express or Alibaba, I skip right on by...
Not to worry, the Porsche Gods say to take special care of the faithful..You and other DIY Licencees can buy any piece of the Plug-and-Play kit you want, from me.
I don't think smog is going to be a big issue, the Ultimate AOS will blend in very well, and is actually a little better emission wise. Many County/States are moving away from emission testing.
Instead of guessing if the EPA will have any issues with what you are proposing to sell, just ask them. Do you really want to ruin your live over something stupid like this?
That's not a bad idea, except he will likely be 100 years old by the time he receives a response from them. Likely an evaluation would need to be done to prove that the alterations do not impact the emissions negatively. This would be a "shed test". I have been involved with these things in the past.
The definitions are pretty clear on the topic, that emissions devices are not to be tampered with.
These are the reasons that I left AOS alterations alone, and we never bypass them, or remove/ defeat any emissions component.
I can�t even get an answer from my local government as to where I can locate a fence on my property. Apparently some haven�t dealt with government enough to realize this.Just ask them , that�s funny. Ten government people will say sure, then the one who interprets the guideline differently will say no. No accountability.
I'm not guessing if the emission will be better or worse, I know it will be better. A far as asking the EPA, like Jake says, I'll never get an answer, or if I do it will not be definitive. I'd be more worried if were selling "tunes" on cars that were not "Certified" as I know all the Tunes on the market are not "EPA Certified"..
The Ultimate AOS still uses the "original design" just spreads it out over the engine compartment (making it easily serviceable and more economical long term) and enhances it with an Accumlator and warning system that keeps some oil from increasing emissions and from damaging the engine (hydrolock). Making the System more emission friendly.
Any changes to an engine can effect the emissions, like changing cam timing, ignition timing, compression ratio, cam profile , AFR ect. THe EPA could come down on any of that.
When I was lead troubleshooter for FoMoCo I had a Ranger 4 cyl 4MT that would hang at idle 2000 RPM. The engineer that had designed to Calibration for model (that hadn't been fully field tested in warm climate) sent me a new ECU with a new (not yet EPA Certified Calibration) to install to fix the concern. It had a sticker on it that said the vehicle could not be sold by the customer until the Calibration had been EPA Certified. All ECU changes have to be EPA Certified to be legal (to be sure they don't increase emissions), but small operations can't do this...
I agree, in this case it is better to "ask forgiveness than for permission", although it would be silly to ask for forgiveness for making a product that lowers emission while while warning of failure,
and asking for permission would be futile..
Are you prepared to drive that to some alphabet agency? That is the question, because at the end of that day it can cure cancer, but you have to spend the time, and the money to PROVE it.
Its one thing doing work while you work for a company, but when its you, and it is only you, there's no saying "I just work here".
Thats all you have to know, and all you have to ask yourself. This has all likely been blown out of proportion, BUT I will say that right now these people are more active than they have ever been.
I have an engine here right now that came back under warranty after a Genuine Porsche AOS died 6,000 miles and 4 months into the life of a new engine. I have to leave the AOS as factory to remain compliant for street driven cars, and in this case, the rules cost me an engine. There's no excuse, and no one will make this "good" for me. Its not my part that failed, but it is my problem to repair, and no one cares.
I actually worry more about the IRS even though I have paid my taxes faithfully over the last 40+ years. Ya just never know.
Is that the engine with the bent rod you put posted on pdxmotorhead's AOS thread? I hate to hear that. That could have been avoided by the Ultimate AOS early warning feature and would have saved a lot of headache for you and the owner..
Well, what killed it was the driver. He was �afraid� to stop the car and call a tow truck, so he drove it 10 miles home at 65 MPH. It sucked all the oil out of the crankcase, and toasted the whole thing.
BUT he wasn�t too afraid to stop, and take a pic to post on Facebook. He only emailed us after he got home, not before..
Yep, a posterchild is exactly what he is going to be..
WOW, geezus, Towing insurance should be mandatory on Porsches , I mean it only costs a few bucks a month, and is meant to be used. If in doubt use it !!
Yep, I think they are stepping up their game, their aluminum AOS hose connector piece is MUCH better than the plastic Porsche one also.
That's why we have the 2nd Amendment "never leave home without it "..
I had an AOS fail a few years back, ironically within half a mile of my Porsche dealer. That was an expensive day...
I would like to get a DYI license and the kit when ready but I must have missed the instructions on how to send the payment?
John
Interesting so you are mounting the accumulator before the regulator in terms of thd oil's path to the intake? I would think you'd want it the opposite way
While I understand the point of trying to avoid oil reaching the diaphragm, while on track, I wonder if oil that currently fills the stock cyclone and "overwhelms" it would not simply find its way to the accumulator. In that case, the accumulator would fill quickly and would not really indicate if the diaphragm is bad.
I admit I have a hard time understanding how the oil ends up where it does in this system so maybe my concerns are unfounded.
Really, i just want to stop having issues with this stupid AOS at the track. On the street, on my boxster, I have no issues at all.
The sensor will warn you beforehand. Not sure how one would check if the diaphragm has failed but I'm sure Skip can explain it.
Lol, I had to re-read your question and think about it. Doc?
Mounting the Accumulator before the regulator/diaphragm help to promote longer life of the regulator/diaphragm.
Are you having repeated AOS failures as in one right after another? Confirmed as in open up the AOS and find a destroyed diaphragm?
How many failed AOS's have you had? Do you have any pictures of the failed AOS's?
I know of instances of cars having had 2-3 or more AOS failures during the life of the car. Jake just posted of a 6k mile engine that had a failed AOS.
You may be confusing "race track" oil control dynamics with "failing AOS" oil control dynamics.
They are two very separate issues.
You should start a new thread for your particular issues on your particular engine.
Scavenge pumps and other internal issues can contribute to "race track" oil control problems, that will not show up on the street, but can be confused with a" failing AOS" and have same symptoms like smoking after corners, and excess oil through the crankcase vent system.
But with the Ultimate AOS system you will have early detection of a problem whether it be a "failing AOS" or a "failed scavenge pump".
The manometer test with confirm whether or not the regulator/diaphragm has failed, the scavenge pumps will need to be removed and inspected.
Exactly, The Infra-red sensor will warn of excessive accumulation (before it has reached a dangerous level enough to cause excess smoking or hydrolock). Then the regulator/diaphragm is tested using a manometer, just like before. With the regulator/diaphragm mounted near the throttle body, changing it is a 10 min job, no big deal.
I have designed and sent the Accumulator mounting bracket to be 3D printed. It will mount to the intake where the adapter is for the Power Brake Booster vacuum right above the alternator.
The Accumulators I had 3D printed should arrive today, so in a couple of days I will have some good pictures of the fully assembled Production Plug-and-play kit.
No, I'm buying new lines and reworking them. I bought a tool that heats and reshapes the factory plastic hoses. Works like a charm.
I am a little disappointing in the finish on the Accumulator, I wanted a satin finish, and not a shinny finish, but the finish is too course, kind like a "sugar cube"...I think I will have to change this.
I've done some plasti-dip before, while it does leave a nice satin finish, it is not very durable and easy to damage/flake/peel, would not be suitable..
Hi Dan, I duno !, you need to come on here more often !!
Thanks Bill, getting closer to finished production.
It's actually worse than a crappy iphone camera, it's a crappy RCA Android phone camera..lol
Thanks for the offer man, my granddaughter is into photography and has a nice camera, if I can get her to slow down and take me some photos..lol , she is a senior in high school.
Another option would be the POR15 product, I've used it to patch sheet metal together, it goes a LONG ways, About as strong as epoxy.
The standard rustproofing compound is a sort of dulled black.
SLS 3D printing is evolving at a very fast pace. There is literally hundreds of materials now and dozens of Post-printing processes. All kinds of metals can now be SLS 3D printed, and post-printed processes such as nickle,silver,gold,brass, plating, and coatings of all kinds. My goal is to keep the price point hundreds less than the Porsche Motorsports AOS, but not to compromise on quality.
The materials used for OEM plastic engine parts are Polyamide 12,11,or 66. I used Polyamide 12 for the Accumulators, but the SLS printing process leaves a rougher finish than the "injection molding" process that OEM's use that is smoother. Injection molding only makes since if you are doing 100k pieces at a run to offset the cost of the molds, so SLS process it is...
There are some post-printing processes that can be done like bead blasting, and tumbling, and of course coatings to smooth the finish, but like Bill said, the goal was to leave it untouched after the SLS printing process. I will get it right and keep the cost down while keeping the quality up, just more decisions, decisions, decisions,
They are really not that ugly, after looking at the finish for a day and a half, it's not that far off. I just want to produce the best and most "Factory looking " system I can, so it looks as though the Porsche Gods make it. The "sugar cube" surface actually looks pretty cool, it's just different and doesn't blend as well as I want, but this post-print process using 3D90 will give a smoother matte finish, seals porosity, and strengthens from 400 psi to 2200 psi (the Accumulator will only see -14.7 psi max) so is a win-win and only cost about $300 a pound, 1 pound will probably do 50-75 dips.
So any reason with the separation of the "diaphragm valve" from the box, You couldn't just replace the box with a regular catch can?
Then the size could be uplifted to allow enough collection to avoid the oil suction problems? Hmm.
I've seen a couple places on line that 3d print Titanium now.. I'm sure it would be a 8x^10 more expensive.. But the cool factor...
A titanium air box..
Space in the 996 engine compartment is a premium, that's why I designed the specific Accumlator to fit perfectly in a space where there would be no excess "plumbing" necessary, and nothing has to be rearranged. I had an aluminum anodized "catch can" last year, set up on a type 2 PCV system, but the Porsche Gods said I could do better, they didn't like all the "plumbing" and aluminum anodizing, nor the type 2 PCV system...
Are you talking about recreating the air cleaner box from Titanium? Yes, you are thinking "outside the box"....
Eagerly following Skip's journey here, and hoping certain west coast automotive authorities are not. ;-)
Yesterday I got my manometer / oil cap setup working, and have a question for the AOS experts here. I attach the manometer, and video'd the readings upon startup. The vacuum starts at ~52in, then descends steadily to ~5.5in over ~20 seconds. Is that normal?
That's a big wish, you know what they say about "wishing in one hand........."
NO, that is NOT ok. The reaction should be swift and not delayed, your AOS has a problem.
The delayed reaction is one reasons some cars have a problem on the track. A swift reaction is important when doing a lot of repeated on and off throttle events.
The Ultimate AOS with the 077103245B regulator is very very fast. On start-up the vacuum recorded on the manometer will not get over the normal running reading. This is due to the atmosphere ports in the 077103245B regulator, it has two very large ports, one has an elasometer damper valve to control vibrations.
As Nike says " Just do it !!"
And technically educational. I think you are the first person in here to notice a delayed reaction, most people only test when warm at steady idle for the vacuum inh20 reading. The delayed reaction is a precurser to high readings at warm idle. And actually, reaction time is of more importance when on the track than anything.
Thanks Skip. I will retest with the engine fully warmed up. My car has never been on the track, and that is not part of my game plan. Is a slow-to-respond AOS okay for typical street driving? Until your solution is available? Am I at risk of hydrolock damage with a slow AOS on the street?
Any chance the slow response is the manometer?
I don't think your manometer is the issue, I have never seen a digital instrument with a 20 sec delay.
From a technical aspect, it's a tough call whether it would be OK to drive or not ( varying degree of failure)
From a practical aspect, it's better to err on the side of caution: so my advice is to not drive the car, yes there is risk of hydrolock.
How old/miles is on the AOS?
I am the third owner, having purchased it 19 years ago at approximately 20,000 miles. Unless the AOS was replaced by 1st or 2nd owner, It is the original AOS. ~22 years old, ~52,000 miles. overdue for a new solution, new thinking. :-)
The faster the better..
What delay are you getting?
I set my manometer to record, and started my car , the reading starting at 0 inh20 min ,the max reading was -8 inh20, there was never a "spike" in vacuum. The refresh rate of the meter is probably .5 sec...
Fully warmed up, mine runs pretty steady at about -5 as fast as I can turn the key and get back to look. Never seems to drop to zero. Should it?
You Tube
You should only be at zero only before the engine is started, you're good....
wfk94025 is getting a spike to 52 inh2o then slowly descending to a good running number after 20 sec. This is due to a delayed reaction, not good. Whats interesting about that is that by normal testing methods (that have been used here by everyone), that would NOT have been caught, and the AOS would have been cleared from suspicion when it fact it has a problem.
Moved the drain port to the left front corner for easier access on the Accumulator. I'm waiting for the mounting brackets to get printed, then fit a little more fit and finish will be done.
The bracket will mount to the intake manifold just above the alternator, where the takeout for the Power Brake Booster is located. The Accumulator is 3.5x4.5x1.75" ,roughly the size of a finished 2x4.. The Infra-red sensor is set in the Accumulator to trigger the warning indicator at 177ml of accumulation.
Thanks man. I've put a lot of work into it, but I can see the finish line now !!
I have replaced many 996.1 6MT AOS on a lift in an hour or two. Not much more for the Ultimate AOS. I have never tried it on the ground on jack stands, probably a good bit more difficult. And 996.2 is much more difficult due to the mounting bolts are on top, where as the 996.1 is on the side and can be reached from underneath the car.
Yes, it is being designed on a Tip, so should fit all models.
Yes, you have a 996.2... more difficult than a 996.1..
The atmosphere port is in the channel, but is obstructed from view. It is also not totally sealed at the red seam. This is why I am including a new reworked AOS in the Ultimate AOS plug and play kit.
Are you trying to do a DIY? You never did answer my questions about your track issues you are having and failing AOS's..
There is no reason the Ultimate AOS won't work well on the track. There are many cars running the Factory AOS on the track with no problems, and the Ultimate AOS is better by having a safeguard in the Accumulator and sensor to warn the driver of any accumulation.
A lot of the cars that have issues on the track is due to a failing AOS or an AOS that has a delayed reaction like in the case of wkf94025 where his AOS tests fine with a manometer reading of -5.5 " h2o but has a 20 second delay where the crankcase vacuum is very high. This would cause a problem on the track.
I have tested the Ultimate AOS on some roads that can duplicate track conditions. Where I live (at the tail end of the Appalachian Mountains) I have some of the twistiest roads that can be found, and that along with the I-22/ I-65 interchange has some long sweeping turns, I can duplicate track conditions to my tire/driver limits. Although a better driver can probably do even better tests. lol
If the DIY'ers can reach the Atmosphere port, it can be sealed with a thick no-drip slicone. But if not comfortable doing this, the reworked AOS will be available and included in the Plug-and Play kit..
If I can reach it?
Is is possible to reach?
I have Quick Jacks. On the highest support setting there is plenty of room under the car, but I don�t think they are much different than jack stands for working under. I can see the AOS bracket, but don�t have a great feel for where the atmosphere port is. If I did know better, I might be able to smear some silicone onto the port opening.
Would it be possible to describe or illustrate where the atmosphere port is located from the �laying on you back point of view�?
" a picture is worth a thousand words", just look at the first picture in post #1. You should be able to correlate that picture to your view from under the car. If not comfortable in doing that, just wait for the Plug-and Play kit.
This is an excellent effort, thanks for sharing and making a PnP version available.
With regards to giving the ultimate AOS the ultimate factory look, I like to suggest to replace the two upper screws and corresponding bosses on the reservoir with 2 wedge-shaped bosses or dove tails and corresponding holes with lips in the bracket or a similar arrangement and use a single screw to fixate it.
In car production (lean production) the focus is on reducing the amount of time to put the car together so the amount of screws/bolts is kept to the absolute minimum amount required. As such you often see only one threaded fastener to fixate parts (like the 996 coolant reservoir) and 3 screws to mount a part is a give-away to aftermarket vs OE(M) (with the exception of Porsche 993 and earlier perhaps...)
The rectangular shape of the reservoir and the 'ultimate AOS' script is also a give-away to aftermarket products imho. OE shapes are normally something of combined 3D shapes (cilinders, spheres, cubes with part cutaways of these) or a complex shape that keeps a constant distance from its surroundings to get the biggest reservoir in the given space and have (long) part numbers, brand logo and material composition codes instead of product names on them.
Perhaps shaping it like the vacuum reservoir is an easy way to use a factory shape that is a stock part in any 996 engine compartment.
But maybe I overestimate the eagerness of the smog inspectors and all of the above is overkill and I'll get of my soapbox now 😊
Thanks for your interest in the Ultimate AOS. Your suggestions have been noted. I have already considered all the things that you have suggested (yes I have overthought this design)..lol
I had first considered the Bracket to Accumulator mounting to be a more complex clip-on design needing no screws. but decided to keep the attachment simple and more robust.
The size and shape of the Accumulator is on purpose to fit in the area/space available to simplify the hose arrangement and keep a clean tiddy arrangement.
As for the product name on the front of the Accumlator, I couldn't help it...lol.. I felt it needed to be there, but is very small script and is only legible close up and will be hidden from direct view by the air cleaner snorkel.
Yes, that is the backside of the Accumulator, I have already overthought it to save everyone the trouble..
The recent picture additions helped immensely. Thank you for posting them. I will get under the car today and see what the possibility of my reaching the atmosphere port really is. My thought is that a dab of silicone caulking on the end of my finger, in the right spot (right on/in the atmosphere port) should do the trick. Is my thinking correct?
Concerning removing the existing AOS assembly, to install the UAOS assembly, I am afraid it would end up to be problematic. I would guess the removal of the old AOS and replacement with the re-worked factory UAOS, could cause problems from cracked hoses and broken plastic hose fittings due to much fumbling and wresting in the tight spaces and limited visibility. Would that be a valid concern?
Thanks again for your time.
Yes
Many people find doing an AOS replacement too difficult, especially on a 996.2.
It definitely requires "surgical like" skills to remove the clamps, bolts, and hoses in tight places without damage.I find the large smooth plastic hoses are tough even after years of service. The corrugate ones that are on some (newer design) that cross over to bank 2 can break if moved / bent too much. And the really small ones can break just by looking at them. (always have some new plastic small hose and rubber splices handy)
The 996.1 6MT can be done with moderate skills and no need to go anywhere near the small plastic hoses.
Also the UAOS will come with a new hose from the UAOS to the throttle body. (just don't break the one that crosses over to bank 2, but like I said it's pretty tough unless you have the corrugated one, then be more cautious)
Went for a 2 hour romp through the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains at 7;30am with 3 Porsche Hooligans and a friend with a newly acquired 600hp Mr2 . Pullled the drain plug on the Accumulator of the UAOS after I got home just to see, "nothing" zero-zilch-nadda, no accumulation what so ever.( I really didn't expect to find any)
I've gotten to where on cooling systems,, I use a flex shaft on a dremel with a 1" cutoff wheel and just cut clamps,,
The spring clamps are usually corroded enough that they need replaced,, and they are too cheap to fight. Same with band clamps..
If I'm pulling a hose over 5 years old,, I replace it..
My old BMW's taught me plastic pipes and tubes on the cooling system are a service item..
I remember when all automotive manufacturers recommended all hoses and belts scheduled maintenance to replace every 2 years.
Rubber and plastic has came a long way since then. Good rubber hose and high performance plastic can last decades.(except thin wall plastic like the little vacuum hoses..lol)
I can remove spring clamps and worm gear clamps quicker with the correct tools than by cutting. But I live in Bama where things don't corrode very much. When I raise a car on the lift and walk under to see that the car has been "up north", my first reaction is "oh s**t !!"...
My experience is much of the german rubber if not treated regularly,, rots.. I've had to replace almost all the rubber on a 4 year old BMW that was a car port not garage car.. its pretty sensitive to UV,, I htink good care and storage pay back..
all the plastic pipes on a E46 need changed about every 80 K, including the radiator or you risk explosive coolant expulsion and a trashed engine..
Its all the same brand as porsche,, Bosche/Beyr/Continantal etc..
May the coolant force be with you!
I agree, rubber and plastic needs proper care. Rubber needs to be exercised to last,. rubber that sits (Garage Queens) will not last.
Modern rubber and Plastic has stabilizers and protectants mixed into the chemical makeup. Heat , UV, and Ozones tend to evaporate the protectants and stabilizers at the surface, but exercising them releases the internal protectants and stabilizers back to the surface to guard against "dry rot".
My 99 996 still has all the original hoses after 20 years, they are still pliable and not hard/cracked or swelled/spongy. This is even after being saturated by oil in 2006 when I bought it, it had been sitting for a year with a severe intermix. The entire cooling system had turned to "gel milkshake" of oil/coolant. After fixing the intermix issue, I flushed the cooling system with the Porsche recommended Frostoff , then flushed with 5 gal of brake cleaner to absorb/remove the soaked-in oil from the hoses. They have been in service another 13 years and 77k miles, for a total of 20 years and 177k miles. Driving the car and building pressure in the cooling system "exercises" the rubber hoses..YMMV
Hi Ron, your first post is when and where to buy the UAOS? Nice job !!!
I just received the final piece I had to design TODAY,(the Accumlator mount brackets), now just to finalize the fit and finish, optimize hose lengths, wiring lengths.
I had a two week delay due to the hoses were "back ordered" from Auto Atlanta., I had ordered 5 AOS hoses for prototyping/development and were "back ordered".
The UAOS will be "built to order" with a couple of options such as URO or OEM components. I will be taking pre-orders in a few days with a 2-4 week lead time (possible back order of components)
I will put an add in the "parts sale" section and a reference link here. DIY'ers (the faithfull) and cars that are "downed" for AOS failure and waiting on the UAOS, will get preference.
Will do !!
Awww poor baby... Tell her she will be better than ever !!
And tell her to be thankful that you found the Failing AOS before really bad things happened to her ...
I want to change my AOS before an autocross in late March.
I’m ready to buy when the kit is ready.
I’m going to change my AOS once and for all...I can’t wait!
Im interested in buying just the reservoir since I yesterday made this mod but without any reservoir. Have not tested it yet since I hade the complete engine out and still have some work to before I start it up
Regards from Sweden.
Do you have any baffles or condensing surfaces on the inside of the accumulator? I remember some of the VW guys having to add material to their catch cans that were mounted close to the engine. Do think its necessary? Just wondering
Yes. The accumulator was carefully designed, not only the size and shape to fit the engine compartment without rearranging things and lots of ugly plumbing, but has internal baffles to direct any excess oil to the bottom of the Accumulator and baffles in the bottom to keep any accumulation from sloshing during high g-forces . also baffling around the infrared sensor so it will only activate at 177ml of accumulation.
Hi Dan, yes the infra-red sensor is a really nice piece, It's fully enclosed with a microprocessor. It sends an infra-red LED light in to a prism that reflects the light back to a photosensor. The microprocessor reads the amount of light reflection, then when the fluid level rises to the outside of the prism, the LED light is refracted into the fluid and less light reaches the photosensor, the microprocessor picks this up and activates the output.
No moving parts, not effected by ambient light or any other external sources, computer accuracy and reliability. The infra-red sensor will be pre-wired into the plug-n-play wiring harness so no chance of wiring it up wrong.
I got a couple more changes to make but looks like the UAOS.2 will be about between $350-$375 ballpark.
LOL, Rome wasn't built in a day, we have been waiting for this for 20 years, patience Grasshopper, patience..
I really can't think of a way to make it better...
I can think of a few ways to make it faster (higher production) but that means a LOT more investment. We'll see, I think it best to take it slow, see how many I NEED to make..
Right now I have to change the mounting bosses on the Accumulator and mount bracket. The Accumulator fits perfect left/right and up/down, but front/back needs more clearance to the air intake snorkel. So I will move the bosses and mount to the side of the Accumulator to give more clearance. Everything is a really tight fit in engine compartment.
Silly question. IF you have a good AOS, does this install require removing the AOS to install? I have done one a year for the last three years. I can do it again, but would prefer not to. I can get one out in 45 minutes. Never goes in as quick. That rubber baffle is the worst. I know you have to block to port, can in be done on a 3.4 C2 without removal?
That's not a silly question, and one that has been asked a few times.
The best answer I can give is,on a 6MT " it can be done, because I can do it". IF you can start a bolt with one hand, blindfolded, in a tight place, then you also can probably do it.
Use a thick no drip silicone like Loctite 5900, on the bench I use a two part epoxy.
I see from your avatar that you have a 996.1, so it is the easier of the gen's. Yes the little rubber bellows and spring clamp is a PITA, but if you throw the spring clamp away, and use a zip-tie, it is much easier. There is hardly any pressure on it (less than 1 psi) so a zip-tie is fine.
On my car I used a zip tie, on customer cars I always put the factory spring clamp back on, even though it is a PITA, and I know the only reason Porsche used the spring clamps is they are faster on the assembly line with the correct tools than even using a zip-tie, but doing it with the engine in the car takes finesse .
Very interested in this upgrade, alot of thought has gone into this solution.
I have a 2005 996 C4S 6mt with 74k miles.
Unfortunately no maintenance history so I will diy the IMS bearing, RMS, clutch kit, WP, and AOS while in there.
What is your timeframe for the initial batch?
Cheers,
Glenn
Thanks for the answer. The more I think about it, I think I would just replace with a new AOS anyway. Add me to the list of people ready to buy, Track season is starting in 2 months....
Any chance of making a custom switch label to put on the dummie switch in the horse shoe and put the led for the infeared sensor in there? Or maybe change the lable on a door lock switch and wire it up a little different since it has a led already?
Not an advertisement, just a systematic solution handed down from the Porsche Gods, backed up by prototyping, and actual tests/road tests ect.
Hi Glen, I fully expect to start production in a week or so.
George is making the changes to the CAD file. Then I will want to run one to see if all good , before starting production.
You are added !! No problem with the 2 months timeline for the Track season.
Yes I had thought of running a wire front to back to make a separate warning light for the UAOS. And can provide a simple wiring diagram to do so. It will only require one connection change at the plug-n-play harness.
I am not a fan of running wire the full length of the car (although sometimes it must be done). It adds cost and labor, and sometimes a little more risk of wiring chaffing if not done very carefully( and is not "factory looking"). Like for instance the Carrera GT has the wire loom ran inside the Monocoque Frame/Chassis, but in forethought they added 5 extra wires of several sizes that are not used initially, but can be used at a later date for additions or for repairs if needed.
Choosing to use the existing wiring and fluid level warning system just made since to me. Although the Warning will have a double meaning, (either low coolant level , or high accumulation) I thought this would be OK/prefered with most people (me) as it keeps installation simple (plug-n-play) and much less time consuming= lower cost if not DIY.
Thanks for bringing this up as I have thought of it before, and I am willing to make changes if the demand calls for it. I could make this as an add-on option as it would make no difference to the original UAOS installation, just one wire connection change, It would of course require a new switch with LED and label and wire, but also extra installation time/labor.
Somebody with free time and a Bentley manual could probably find a spare wire that connects the engine bay to the cockpit area. The harnesses I've worked with seem to have plenty of unused connections and "spare" wires, depending upon what options you have installed, etc.
I think it would be unusual to find an unused connector on a 996. I can't remember seeing any except the pre-wired phone connector or the Porsche specific OBD connector in the engine bay. The only extra option that would be at the rear would be the parking sensor wiring, and I haven't seen any loose connectors for that.
The Porsche MO for wiring on 996 seems to be "built to options". Case in point:: the 6MT engine harness doesn't have the extra plug for the Tip change-over valve, they could have easily used the Tip engine harness for the TIp and 6MT, and just left the change-over connector loose or capped, but chose to have a different harness for each.
Also wiring diagrams would not help because they show ALL wiring possibilities , whether on the car or not.
So u r gonna tap into the exiting wiring harness for a sensor and trip an existing light. That makes sense. I wasnt sure how u were gonna monitor the accumulator. I think thats a good solution.
What if you just put the warning light inside the car between the rear seats where you'd see it in the mirror? (The right LED would be too small to normally even notice but when on would really stand out.. Or up below the rear window?
I was thinking a 3/32 diameter white led, it would totally hide in the upholstery.. If it was a coupe you could put it in the housing for the 3rd brake light?
Stealth.. The Coolant level sensor would be another possibility. Easy to check.
I would prefer simplicity in installation. This is already going to be a b*tch to install in my .2 tip and running new wires to new holes with new bulbs is more than I'd like to do.
Yes, the plug-n-play harness will tap into the low coolant warning wiring, then if the Infra-red sensor trips, the red warning light in the cluster will "slow flash", indicating a high accumulation level or a low coolant level.
I'll give you a simple wiring diagram to connect your warning light wherever you want it !!
That's me !! Anything behind me is slower and I get the fast line !!!
Thanks,,, me too !!
Yes, incorporating into the coolant level sensor warning is the way it was originally designed, and will come as plug-n-play.
I feel ya, but this will be the last time. Just think of the people who have already done this 2-3-4 times !!!
PT3
What tool is best for those horrible hose clamps , I've tried a few but my adjustable pipe grips seem to work better, I would buy another tool if I knew it would work, what do you use??
Thanks Noz
These ...
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/o...EaAoOfEALw_wcB
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/o...oaAqNBEALw_wcB
the one with the cable extension is a must for replacing the oil fill tube on the 986
I have three friends with 996.2 Tips so this may not be the only Ultimate AOS Solution kit I end up installing
Skip, will the kit come with a new AOS or should I go ahead and get that ordered now? Uro?
The UAOS complete plug-n-play kit ,will have a "new reworked AOS' as an OPTION. since a new AOS will not be needed for it to perform as designed.( just the atmosphere port plugged)
So you can go ahead and get one and plug the Atmosphere port if you want, or I can supply you one either way makes no difference to me.
The complete Plug-n-Play UAOS kit will have the full hose from AOS to intake with V2 quick-connects on each end, with integrated Accumulator and Flow Regulator, plus infra-red sensor/relay installed and pre-wired into the plug and play harness.
Ok last change, added ribs and gussets to the bracket, changed the spec on the Accumulator to Carbon Fiber filled Polyamide 12 (CF-PA) . We all like Carbon Fiber right???
The UAOS is ready for production . add in Marketplace
https://rennlist.com/forums/the-renn...2063-uaos.html
Let me know your year model if wanting a re-worked AOS to go with it..
Skip,
Is there an image of the UAOS system installed on the car? I understand that good pictures may be difficult to take or even clearly see what the picture is supposed to illustrate.
Also, I don’t have a clear, 3D idea of how the factory AOS is oriented in the car. Since the atmosphere port needs to be gooped up with sealant by feel and not by sight, having a clear understanding of exactly where the port is as viewed from under the car is important to me.
As a side note, I checked my crankcase vacuum last week. It checked out to be in perfect condition, at -5” water column, checked via slack tube manometer.
Here is a pic of the full UAOS kit as it will be oriented from under the car. you will be looking kinda up at it. I don't have a pic from under a car.
-5 in h2o is good, that's what you want to see.
Here is almost a good view from under the car, the Atmosphere port is just above the mid port, does that help??
Jake is planning to do a video for those who are not very familiar with these systems.......
Raise your car up and take a picture, send it to me, and I'll add the arrows...
Skip,
That picture does help. I have a couple of pictures from under the car, but not nearly well taken as your picture. I have the car on the Quick Jacks so I will get under there and use your picture to help me orient myself further.
My car is a little crusty down in that area. It is still wearing Montana road grime from a prior owner. It makes it a little harder to differentiate parts easily.
I have my order in for a full kit, incl AOS since mine has failed and has to be replaced anyway. I'll start taking pics soon, I'll borrow a friend's lift bars to get enough room under the car. Mine is a .2 TIP, so it's going to be a challenge for sure.
Skip, have you developed install instructions?
=
Two tries at trying to capture an image where you could see the AP �spot� to seal. There are a lot of things in the way that make it impossible to get even a peekaboo view of the spot. I am pretty sure my arm is long enough. It was about 18� to my chest on the creeper. I could lower the Quick Jacks to the lower level, which would help with the reach length. If I could only at least see the spot before I started reaching, it would make it more doable.
I'm going to write instructions for the install of the UAOS that differs from just a regular R&R of the AOS and Hose from AOS to Intake. Jake is planning to do a video . There are some good threads in here for AOS R&R I'll see if can located them. Every mechanic who works on Porsche already knows how to do it by now, there has been so many AOS's replaced.
I can see that even though that AOS has been there for a while, it is not original. I can tell from the worn gear clamps on the bellows, the factory uses spring clamps.
I was wondering if you might be able to discern if original or not. That might explain the crankcase vacuum being right on spec.
I hadn�t thought of a borescope. That might have to be the way to reach the atmosphere port AND be able to see it at the same time. As it is, once your arm starts snaking its way up to the spot, you lose the already extremely limited view you had.
I am looking forward to the instructions, both written and the video format. For now, I have the luxury of time.
Thank you, I appreciate all your efforts.
Thanks for that tip. I�ll look at that when I get out to the garage today. Apparently there is enough slack on all the connections between body and engine?
Yes, all the hoses and wiring have enough slack to allow the engine to be lowered to the crossmember. Just remove the air box and unclip the 02 sensors.
Im not sure if i saw where u think the first units will go out. I have a track day march 13 and wondering if i can get one of your kits in time to install.
I'll have you fixed up !! I love the "high speed tours" with the local PCA Club, and a few of us Hooligans create our own tours. The local Club just had the "Polar Bear Run". It started at Porsche Birmingham, went past Barber Motorsport Park, then about 75 miles of backroads up to the top of Cheaha Mountain, ( highest point in Bama), then back off the other side to end at lunch in Anniston. Over 40 car string of Porsches, great fun !!
Quick and simple OVERVIEW/SUMMARY of the UAOS
The Ultimate AOS design works by taking a systematic approach to the problems associated to to the Factory AOS and correcting/improving them.
The Factory AOS design is well known for failing of the flow control diaphragm, and the result is increased oil consumption, or excess smoking, and in severe cases engine hydrolock causing bent rods and cylinder damage.
When the flow control diaphragm fails in the Factory AOS, the present procedure is to replace the complete AOS. This procedure is very labor intensive due to the location of the Factory AOS, and involves hours of labor.
In the Ultimate AOS design, the flow control diaphragm regulator is moved to easy access at a location near the throttle body and can be replaced in a matter of minutes. The "Vortex" part of the air-oil-separator is left as Factory designed and drains the separated oil back to the oil sump.
As an additional design improvement, the Ultimate AOS, incorporates an Accumulator in series between the Vortex and the Flow Control Diaphragm Regulator. The Accumulator collects any excess oil in the crankcase vent system. Also incorporated in the Accumulator is an infra-red sensor set to activate an in-dash warning if accumulation reaches a dangerous level 177ml , indicating a fault in the Crankcase Vent System system and allows for operator intervention before any engine damage can occur. This feature will save engines from the threat of hydrolock.
The Infra-red warning feature is wired to the low coolant warning circuit, and will "slow flash" the red warning in the instrument cluster.
I took this this evening with borescope from the rear hatch. I'll try to get some better ones tomorrow if I can get a moment to get the car back up in the air. I'm guessing the port that needs to be filled is "just" blocked from view?
Yep, the 3.8 "S" models were introduced in 2005+ 997.1
But the 3.6 was the standard engine all the way to 08 through the 997.1 range, the UAOS fits those.
Yep, the AOS port is right behind your sticker.
Since most people who are installing the UAOS will be doing so with a good, non-failed AOS as an upgrade/preventative measure,( no need to replace a good AOS) I'll try to focus on the best way to seal the atmosphere port... On Tips it may be best to just remove the throttle body and center front and rear plenum to access the Atmosphere port and hose connection.
The only real reason for replacing an AOS after the Invention of the UAOS, is that dirt would have entered the AOS and hose from the failed diaphragm. If the Atmosphere is port is sealed BEFORE the diaphragm fails, no dirt can enter the system.
As far as just replacing the AOS with a new re-woked AOS, that has been done so many times, there are good post already for that. On the 996.2 lowering the engine to the cross member and removing the drivers side intake manifold is the best way..
A very good article with pictures for installing the re-worked AOS for the UAOS kit on the 996.1 and 996.2 cars..
https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart..._Separator.htm
Your welcome. Coming up with the best ways to seal the Atmosphere port on the different models will be a big contribution to the community since there will no longer be a need to replace the AOS !!!
Yes no issues with your 3.8...Yours is the M96/03 engine ..
In the 997.1 model there is an M96/05 (3.6) the UAOS will fit this engine, and an M97/01 (3.8) the UAOS will not fit this engine.
Yes, if you lay them side - by - side, you can see that the upper 3/4 are the same between 996.1 and 996.2 , the lower 1/4 (mounting area0 is where they are different..
I have verified that the Atmosphere port can be reached from underneath the car on 6MT cars, and can also be reached by lower the engine to the crossmember and removing the two center plenums and reaching between the starter and vacuum reservoir without removing the left intake manifold.
Hopefully others will join in to find other ways to seal the Atmosphere port without removing the AOS since AOS replacement is a thing of the past...( if done before failure)....
I got half the first batch of Carbon Fiber Accumulators in yeasterday, and half the order of hoses from Auto Atlanta, the rest will be here by the the 6th, so I'LL be shipping the high priority orders out tomorrow or Tuesday,, the rest on the 7th or 8th, then I will be ready for batch 2..
This is what you can see of the UAOS system when looking under the hood. Here is a pic of the Carbon Fiber UAOS test fitted to Sally last nite. The 99 is the hardest to fit with the least room due to the cable throttle body and IAC/TPS, but as you can see it fits nicely in there. The camera flash caused a reflection off the Carbon Fiber that is not normally there, there is a little a different sheen from the carbon fiber, but it blends in well just looking at it . It doesn't stick out and I think it will not cause any red-flags.
The 99C2 is the hardest to fit due to the cable throttle body and the IAC/TPS are crowding things. Test fitted to Sally last nite the newest design (production).The 99C4 and up models with e-gas have much more room, but I still got it to fit in the early 98-99 C2cars. Partially hidden by the air cleaner the Carbon Fiber Accumulator had a reflection from the camera flash that is not there when just looking. It actually blends in quite well.
If you have a early 99 or 98 car , look to see if you have this type Power Brake Booster fitting, It interferes with the hose routing and I have a special fix for it, I will include it in the UAOS kit..
Thanks Doc! I'll feel around some more. I tried to get up there with the endoscope but couldn't seem to get an angle. I'm still on the wrong side.
What is this little port Skip?
so Now I'm confused. In your hand drawn parts diagram, you have the regulator before the accumulator, but in your production pics, its reversed. Which way are you doing it?
In your drawing, you have regulator followed by accumulator on way to intake.
in the production piece, you have the order reversed. I'm assuming the production version is the correct way.
Oh I see, I put that there last nite trying to keep all the info together and tidy up the thread. It was supposed to be the drawing like in Post #88, that drawing is one of my first early designs that was in my computer I pulled up by mistake..It was supposed to be this one with the Accumulator instead ..
I have an extensive set of 1/4" tools for working in tight spaces. I wouldn't dream of completely removing the engine to replace just the AOS. Only lowering it to the crossmember. There is only 6 bolts holding the left intake on after you remove the two center plenums.
Doing this kind of stuff for a living for 40+ years means learning to work in tight spaces can make you a s**t load more money (fast) than doing it "the easy way".
IF
I do it, I'll do it in-place.
I also have extensive 1/4 tools that would make the job possible.
Shhh, it's a secret, but I'm starting a new job soon and won't have any vacation time at first.
So I'm considering having a fellow Rennlister do the job for me.
I just don't have time to work on my own car these days.
I'll be working on a Nissan Frontier tomorrow.
I'd rather be working on my own car!!
The 'miracle' tools for tight spaces are all the little extras you seldom get is even a master set .For example wobble adapters in various lengths, magnetic inserts,flare or crow foot,shallow and deep sockets
Then there is the trick lights on flexible extensions so you can see
You could spend a fortune :-)
The ultimate tool is long,very skinny hands and arms.
A 1/4" drive stubby socket ratchet is what they are referring to. Invaluable on the intake bolts on the left side. Total PITA. Working with left hand/arm way back in there, and bonus, the bolts have locktite on them so you have to stay at it until the bolt is all the way out.
So, any reason to worry about trying to get a torque wrench on the intake manifold bolts? I see they are only 7.5 ft lbs so imagine just some blue Loktite and a snug with the socket is all that is needed?
Bookmarked.
Pardon the stupid (didn't do a search) newbie question but: "How do you know if you need a new AOS?"
Just bought my 2000 C4 Cab 5 months ago and didn't notice any AOS work done in the available service records; engine runs fine and no apparent oil leaks.
Forget the Loktite, it's not called for on those bolts, and I have never seen a need for it there. And just makes removal more difficult.
Just use proper Torque. Practice on a similar bolt to get the correct "feel" for it, using the tools you plan on doing the final tighten with. (verified with a torque wrench)
Those of us who do it for a living can get within 10% of Torque spec by "feel", (which is actually more accurate then most torque wrenches)..
If your crankcase vacuum is higher than 5-7 inches of water (inh20), your factory AOS has a problem. Use a manometer to test this, there are several threads on testing with a manometer.
The factory AOS is known to have a failure of the rubber diaphram, this will cause high oil consumption, smoking, and in severe cases, engine hydrolock. Jake Raby just had two cases of bent rods due to hydrolock from failed AOS's, one of which was only 6 months old.
The UAOS moves the diaphragm to an easy access location, and also has an Accumulator with infra-red sensor to prevent engine hydrolock..
(Picture courtesy of Jake Raby) This one just experienced the wrath of the Porsche Gods due to a failed Factory AOS, same thing almost happened to mine last year at Little Talledega Gran Prix race track, luckily I caught it just in time to avoid this, and it was one of the main reason I put the time in on the UAOS developement..
Good luck ! That's why I designed the UAOS with Accumulator and infrared sensor, the sensor keeps an eye out for oil accumulation that leads to hydolock. It can happen slowly or quick, and sneak up on you. It almost got me and none keeps a better eye on the engine like I do.
lol, mine also came today and the box seemed plenty durable. Your box looks like it belongs to someone who doesn't give their UPS guy a bottle of booze for Christmas.
My AOS was tested good the oil change before it failed, 3500 miles later it hydro locked #1...
Far as I'm concerned its either the UAOS or I might add a active monitor to the damn thing when the motor goes back in.
I'm a ways out,, sudden expense changes with 2 girls in college ,,
having to adjust to video classrooms and not living in the dorm.. Lets say the alligator got a piece of me..
I may have to break down and just rebuild it myself..
^^^ I think this reality is setting in for many of us.This virus situation has the potential to be a major life changer for most if not all of us - in many ways. Stay safe (social distance), ration paper goods & wash/sanitize your hands!
This Pandemic is having a big effect on everyone, stay strong..
Mechanics are going to be hit hard with this, since 95% of them work on commission only, they won't get paid anything to go to work and lean on their toolbox. It will actually cost them money to show up for work..But they will survive somehow after a few adjustments.
Per my fav indy, In AZ mechanics are considered an "essential industry" that aren't subject to mandatory closing, which is a good thing. But, I'm sure with the resession coming "toys" will not repaired.
Yea my "toy" fund was in the market. so its on hold now..
It puts me on hold with a toy in storage,, and ,,
becasue of the sudden demise of the motor,,
My LS swap into my jeep is on hold too.
Dangit I was like a week away from purchase too..
Right same here, auto repair and service in essential and shops are not closed, but many have altered there MO. They no longer do "waiters" and don't don't do face-to-face encounters. All communication is done by phone, and keys are left in the "night drop box' even during the day, then when repair/service is done,payment by card on the phone, car is left outside with copy of the bill and keys locked inside, then customer picks up with spare key..
in looking at the Bentley manual on removing/installing the intake manifold it states to "Replace all fasteners with threadlock coating". I'll know in a little while if Jake uses it.
If this engine is from FSI, you will no doubt have genuine Porsche fasteners. In that case, they will most likely be "micro encapsulated". Just a clever name for sealant (similar to Loctite) already applied to the threads.
Save and be ready when the time is right for you. I bet it's going to be a "buyers" market for toys in a few months...
I sure could use a couple of weeks off, but I am grateful that my business is considered "essential" (I just ordered a rebuild from FSI before this all started) and we are as busy as ever!
For now! The $hit is going to hit the fan up here too but especially in the US in the next few weeks. Other than something that is absolutely necessary, I would stop any extra spending. You guys south of us have a real problem already. Just look at the numbers and how they are climbing and make your decision on that. Look out for yourselves and your loved ones.
Stay safe ya'll!
A quick... what would u do.... question. So im probably buying a wp and they have the uro aos for $75. Should i just buy a replacement? My current unit tests ok but im probably gonna remove it to seal the ports anyways. I just see how i can get in there with it installed.
oh yea car has over 202k miles and i have no idea how long the current aos has been in there
Not a big decision since the factory style AOS , when used with the UAOS, is just a plastic Vortex made from PA66-GF35, which is a Polyamide66 with a 35% glass fiber added. a very good high quality plastic. The really only thing is how dirty is the old one.( having to clean it before sealing it)
All the Factory style AOS' I have seen are made from PA66-GF35 so it really doesn't matter much which one you buy.
I have considered making an optional UAOS-OEM using Genuine Porsche AOS and Genuine Audi/VW flow regulator ect .still keeping the Carbon Fiber Accumulator. would cost about $850.
I have also considered making an optional UAOS-E version using a high temp ABS instead of Carbon Fiber for the Accumulator, and using the URO flow regulator and including a new Bapmic AOS (PA66-GF35) all included would cost about $350, since the savings from the ABS could would pay for the Bapmic AOS. Since many people are struggling over sealing the Atmosphere port, it would just be included in the E version. But tests are not complete on the ABS Accumulator.
Is this the one that was reading +30 inch/h20 of POSITIVE pressure on your car? If so, I like to have it to cut open and inspect.
That reading is just not plausible. It would have to have a total blockage in it to have that reading.
Nope, not fully warm can have the reading a little off, but it should never be a high "positive" pressure unless something is blocked. Something weird with that Factory style AOS.. Send it to me...
I will be happy to send you mine, as well. You can reply to my last PM, when you have a chance...
Here are a couple of shots from my investigation of the vent location. It's in three pieces now.
Hey Scott, no need to send me that one, your pictures are so detailed and clear I can see what I need to. I can see where the Atmosphere port is on the old "53" model AOS, and also the mode of failure (as expected).
With some people having no confidence in sealing the Atmosphere port themselves /or Indy's having no idea what to do, many are opting to buy the re-worked URO AOS along with the kit, or even a less expensive brand. Looks as though they are all made by Mann+Hummell anyway, even the Genuine Porsche , they all have Mann+Hummel part numbers and Porsche part numbers on them.
BTW, THANKS too all for the positive feedback from everyone on the UAOS. Lots of positive feedback even from seasoned Technicians on the install !!
No worries what so ever. With an adjustment of hose lengths, the UAOS can be fitted to a 99C2 cable TB which has a IAC and a TPS protrotuding off the left side over 25mm (way more than any larger e-gas TB would ever be).
So any larger TB's will be no issue.
Warning!
Make sure the clamp tool is seated squarely on the spring clamp before you squeeze. Mine slipped to the side, wedged in the tool and locked up, it took me a real (hours) long time to get it free...Buy a good quality tool and not the cheap ones that break mid-stream.
@Porschetech3
So I've decided that I now have time (unfortuantely) to install the UAOS.
What else should I replace while I'm in there?
I'm guessing #4, 10, 12, and 13
Any other o-rings or clamps need replacing too? (I have a Craftsman hose clamp tool with the long cable)
What was the part number for the fancy hose clamp with clip? (also how many do I need?)
I'm creating an order so I'll have everything ready when I start.
I'll be replacing the plastic T(18?) while I'm at it. (I already have that part)
Will I need much coolant? (I have a gallon at least)
Will I lose much oil? (I have 8quarts of DT40)
Anything else I should consider before starting...intake manifold gaskets, etc?
Hi Bruce, since yours is a 996.2 you won't need #10 or the clamps with the fancy hold tool, they are for 996.1 only. Part #4 is a good idea and 12 13 and intake gaskets/o-rings also.
You won't lose any coolant if you have 3 hose clamp tools like so,
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...MyhJegUIARCcAw
no need to drain coolant, only a couple ounces will be lost.
You won't loose any oil.
If I can of any more help just let me know
So how does one get to this stupid bolt with the engine in the car?
I cant even get an open end wrench back there. It seems like the AOS is sitting right above it and there's about a finger width gap above it. This is my engine on the stand during the rebuilt, it doesn't look that clean or accessable now
So i thought my old aos was good but im glad i tested it again. Its now pulling 13 in at idle and 18 at 1200 rpm. Not good so i guess im getting a new one. Do u want my old one for research? Also gonna order a bunch of small parts from the diagram above.
Good to see you started the install..If you need help just ask..
Thanks for helping out Kris , this is a tough job for someone who has never done it or doesn't do it for a living..but I know you are a Pro at it...
I don't need that one, that is the usual MOF. I only wanted Bills because he said it was showing -2inh2o then would go to Positive +30inh2o slowly like it had a blockage. I have never seen one do that.
Using an open end wrench and turning 1/6 turn at a time is torture !!!
I dropped 3 10mm sockets trying to access from the left side. Couldn�t do it. Finally was able to get a wrench in there from the right side - once both plenums were removed.
Be glad your manifolds are secured with 10mm bolts so you can use a wrench. Those of us with remanufactured engines have the damn internal torx to deal with so you have to figure out how to get a socket on.
Besides that being the hardest bolt on the manifold to remove, my difficulty was working with my left arm exclusively down the length of the manifold to remove painfully one small turn at a time working to remove that bolt. I ended up wrapping my entire left arm with an ace bandage because I had already wounded my left arm pretty bad. As I said in another thread on AOS removal/replacement, if there is a next time either the entire engine is coming out or I will gladly pay whatever amount of money it takes to have someone else do this PITA job.
Not sure why, but when I did my motor swap I replaced the Torx bolts with 10mm and glad I did. I bought a micro 1/4 drive ratchet after my first replacement and totally forgot about it when I did the second 6mos later.
Still not sure it would have worked though...
Thanks, guys. I can't even see the AOS from below the car (it's a Tip) so i guess its the open end wrench technique. I have both plenums out so I'll wrestle with it this afternoon. These are bolts, not Torx's so i can get a wrench on it, thank goodness. Better first stock up on 10 mm wrenches, sounds like I'll be leaving a few in there, as well a a pound of flesh
. I have a stubby 1/4 ratchet but it won't fit on this back bolt anyway with the stupid AOS sitting on top of the bolt.
I always felt that before a car design is approved, the designers need to do all the basic repairs with hand tools in their garages without a lift, when it is either <50 degrees or 100+ degrees in the garage. Only then can the design go to production. This is one of those examples.
Have you tried something like this? 1/4 drive 10mm -" low profile", will work up to 40 degree angle. Will go into places you wouldn't think it would go. May not back the bolt all the way out if it hits something above, but can get it loose and backed out a ways , then spin it with your fingers..
I have so many small special tools that sometimes the biggest problem is deciding which one to use when several will work..
Thanks, I've just ordered on of those. (but not Snap-On, I'm a poor retired guy :-) )
By the time this project is done i'll have more small tools that i ever thought i'd need.
So i pulled the intake on the drivers side and removed the bad aos. I also found a few other things that need to be done while in in there like vacuum lines. What are u guys just using to replace the rigid tubes? Im guessing just parts store replacement pieces? I also bought hose 4 on the aos diagram above, do u have to pull the passenger side intake to get to the other side connection? Not a big deal as i should probably pull it anyways and vac off the top of the motor. There was a lot of debris on the drivers side.
also do u guys think the po was real lucky and caught a fuel line leak before the car went up like a match box?
Back of intake
Have you lowered the motor?
Can you get the 2 AOS bolts loose first? If you can get the AOS lifted a bit that might make it easier to get a short stubby socket on the "bitch bolt".
It's certainly possible... The damaged/missing foam is more likely rodents though... They love to use that for nesting...
Not sure about the plenum itself...does it look melted or chewed? If you can get it to stick, it might be worthwhile trying to get some polyester resin on there to make sure it doesn't crack further and leak... Good Luck
I think you are exactly correct !!! The PO was indeed very lucky that car wasn't burned to the ground !!!
That plastic manifold will not melt like that unless the ambient temp gets to 350F (180C for non-US people lol). The only way it can get to that temp is for there to be FIRE !!
Luck was on his side that the fire snuffed its self out before it got really going..( I don't see any sign of fire-extinguisher residue)
I've lowered the engine. I'll try to get back around to the AOS and loosen the bolts and see. i need longer, more bendable arms and fingers..... I am certainly using all of my vocabulary on this project :-)
Agreed....this one will test every ounce of your patience and then some. If you get frustrated, walk away and have a beer. Let it sit and then come back to it. I did it and will never forget the almost impossible situations you will encounter. It's doable but difficult. Hang in there.
so happy i have 3.4 and didnt have to deal with this bolt or maybe i was lucky and it wasnt that bad. I had already unbolted the aos and pushed it over. I was able to get a 1/4", 10mm deep socket with a 3" extension on it from above and break it free. Im sure torquing for install will be more difficult. Ill probably drop the engine some.
Neither my intake or plenum tube were burt through so no need to replace or repair, but they are most deffinately melted. Im guessing a mechanic messed something up and was able the extingish it quickly. Maybe it was residual fuel? I dont think any of the previous owners worked on this car themselves based on the limited history i have. Sadly still waiting on parts so no progress on my uaos install.
thx. I finally figured out how autoatlanta had it listed. I also got all new rubber elbows. After pulling the pass intake i need to buy a few more clips and parts from them tomow. Im glad i spent the time to pull the intake and replace the aos cross over tube from the pass side. I dont think the tube was leaking but it was brittle. The issue i really think i found was where my oil leak on the back pass side was coming from. Looks like the o-ring on the 90* fitting that goes into the head from the aos tube was leaking. Glad i didnt have to waste time replacing the wrong parts.
Visable leak.
blue towel is where the fitting goes into the head
It is suppose to seal back after it pops-off, but if there is dirt in it, it may not seal back.
You can test it by pouring rubbing alcohol in it while it upside down to see if it leaks.
You "can" just plug it off, 996.2 doesn't use a pop-off valve.
What is the purpose of this "accessory bracket"? There was nothing attached to mine. A friend with a 996 checked and his has nothing attached to it either.
thx but mine r 100% functional and the melted spots cant be seen unless removed. If u want to give them to me for the price of shipping i would put them to use but fortunately i dont "need" them.
"A little $5 plastic support for the SAI hose part #33 here"
Geez, these clip parts just seem to fall apart....... Nice to know is won't cause my engine to fall out before i get a new one ordered.
Hi Mike, all the installs so far have been in the North East and out West. But any good Indy who can install an AOS can install the UAOS no problem, it's really Plug-N-Play/Bolt-On and not much more than a regular AOS install if you get the full kit with the re-worked AOS.
Asking an Indy to "seal the Atmospheric port" in a used AOS will probably raise the left eyebrow...lol..Best just to hand them the kit and say install this.
That procedure was meant to show "proof of concept in design" and for talented DIY'ers to save some bucks.
The DIY License program has ended for the UAOS. No new DIY Licenses will be issued.
The UAOS is still offered with or without a re-worked new AOS for now, but if asking an Indy or other professional to install, I suggest getting the new re-worked AOS also.
The Indy that did that install was in Maryland and had no issues at all and gave very good feedback..
Hey Skip,
I�m slowly working on mine now in my spare time.
I was wondering about the plastic tube from the AOS to the throttle body.
Mine is covered, along with some hoses, in a sheath.
I can cut the tube to slide it out if possible, but I�m wondering if that is even necessary.
Can I just cut and remove the sheath and use wire ties or does the sheath provide some minimal heat protection and need to be kept
Tex - I can tell you that my set up has been held together with with wire ties for the last three years and about 3,000 track miles. I have not seen any issues.
Hi Bruce, yea they are bundled in an insulation. The insulation is to keep heat in rather than keep it out. The heat will keep water vapor from condensing into water. So keep just wrap it back on and tie strap it if possible, if it's too ragged don't worry about it, just tie strap the hoses back against the AOS tube, just will be a little more water in the Accumulator when you check/drain it, no big deal.
Hi PT
Is the pop off valve on the crank vent line going to Cyl 4-6? I've got my motor out and have oil misting on the crank case near there plus I've seen two types of vent line on design911 , there's one with a direct pipe entry into the crankcase instead of having the valve there, plus it's a lot cheaper, might do the swap if the pop off can be safely removed?
Thanks Noz
The tube connects to either elbow the same way it connects to the aos, same style connector. I dont know why but i went with the origional style for the 3.4 with the popet. It was about $20 more then the elbow. The elbow bolts to the head with a 10mm bolt.
Hi Noz, part #6 has the pop-off valve on it IF it's a 996.1 or early 2002, if it's a late 2002 or 996,2 it has a 2 bolt elbow with no pop-off valve.. Early models has 1 bolt, late has 2 bolts and cannot b
e retrofitted.
Skip - #2 on this diagram. Is that the gasket that comes with the AOS. I'm pretty sure it is, but wanted to double check? I have never replaced or seen an additional gasket there (other than the one that is already on the AOS).
on the URO one i bought it has #2,10,11 just like the factory but i does look like all the aftermarket ones are not created equal. You should double check and verify before buying.
Thanks, that is what I thought. I have had a series of the Porsche AOSs and that is how it has always come. FCP Euro has got to be tired of me sending AOSs back to them....
All the AOS's I have seen whether aftermarket or OEM has had the red rubber seal on there.
BTW your UAOS is on its way !! Shipped out today and expected to arrive Monday 4/20/2020
Since you are having issues on the track, you should check your engine health/ blow-by like described in this thread..
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...w-by-test.html
I‘m in the middle of installing mine now.
I’ve removed the AOS, and tomorrow morning I’m going to start the install.
I‘m glad I won’t have to go through this again.
I feel for those who have had to do this multiple times...unless they’re getting paid.
I know !!! I have heard of many having failed AOS's 2-3 times in an engines life, they are just lucky they didn't get a big gulp of oil all at once like some do ... We have seen that several times here lately on this forum with really bad out comes..
And then you sold me a �ro AOS with a non-functioning diaphragm inside.
Do you know which post has the wiring instructions?
I think this thread is up to 100 bazillion posts, it�s gonna take me a couple of days to find them.
Yep, I am the only one that can sell Brand New Non- Functioning AOS's for top dollar !! Lol
The simple wiring directions are on the first post of the " UAOS install / tips/ tricks " thread..
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ps-tricks.html
There is not a whole lot of posts in that thread.
Even the most bulletproof of m96 engines can fail from even a brand new Porsche AOS, Jake Raby recently had two engines with bent rods due to failed Brand New Porsche OEM AOS's about 6 months old.
The UAOS stops that kind of non-sense.
Skip...another order coming at ya. Second AOS apparently failing within 5,000 miles. What crap! Unless there’s some other way the crankcase can be drawing 11” H2O with aircon off and 7” with aircon.
Bring it on !! I just put in another order/batch of the Carbon Fiber Filled Accumulators today. Schmit Proto who is doing my PA-CF Accumulators are kinda overloaded with making masks and shields for medical use for Covid 19 pandemic, promised to push my order through on time.
Only 4 slots left for the April/May UAOS batch orders !!
BTW: The URO regulator is on National Backorder (for 45-60 days) so all orders will be sent with the Vaico regulators installed untill further notice.
I have tested/evaluated the Vaico and it is approved for use with UAOS..
Come on, you know you need one!
Having one means you don't need to buy a manometer to continually check your AOS.
The UAOS monitors that (and other things) for you.
After the UAOS is installed, if the AOS diaphragm fails, it's just a 10 minute DIY job to replace it.
We have seen so many complete engine failures lately that can be traced back to AOS malfunction !!
I am wondering how many of the "catastrophic failures" in the past that were so broken that a cause of failure couldn't be determined, or was just so bad the engine wasn't even worth opening up to inspect, just scrapped, could have been all a chain reaction of an simple AOS failure !!!!
Porsche made my last three AOSs (at least there was a Porsche part number on them) less than 5,000 miles combined on those three. The UAOS is not going to prevent the regulator from failing, it is just making it super easy to replace. I may replace mine before each track event. Point being, the regulator being Porsche, Vaico, etc., doesn't matter as much now that it is cheap and easy to replace.
All the Factory "style" AOS's are made by Mann+Hammell (the big Kahuna in OEM air 'intake systems and other systems)and they're all crap. Mann+Hamell doesn't even sell an AOS in their name, but all factory "style" AOS's have a Mann+Hamell part number on them.
Once the UAOS design is implemented, the "crap" AOS's will never need to be replaced again, no mater what "brand name" was on the box !!
And the UAOS Accumulator+ Infra-red sensor will stop any potential hydrolock from making scrap metal out of your m96 engine.
#porschetech3.
Any suggestions for this? I think in the future u should bond a fitting to the resi to make it removable. This happened as i was doing the final install. Maybe i should have tried to make the connection at the aos after i put the intake on? Either way im not sure if i can just epoxy or jb weld it back up. Not sure what will stick. I am not sure i can get to the aos to remove the tube with out pulling the intake. It just seems u have to man handle the assembly to get all together when the motors in the car.
Don't try to epoxy it or JB weld, I will send you another Accumulator/ custom hose. The one I'll send is the custom hose with an aluminum section near the Accumulator and can be dissconected, the new Accumulator is also double the thickness at all exterior walls/nipples.
No need to ever manhandle the installation, if something isn't fitting easily, investigate the situation.
Sorry for the inconvenience, of course I will warranty this , I was just contemplating offering a written warranty for 25-50 years for Accumulators or re-worked AOS"s since tests of the materials show a minimum service life expectancy for under-hood engine environment to be four decades or 5000 hours.
Well i have to start the car tonight so ill use some silicone that can easily be removed if u want to rework the hose/resi. I was not manhandling your uaos, i installed it before i put the drivers side intake in so i was constantly shifting it around to get the intake slid in and getting to the intake bolts. I was manhandling the intake
.
So can u get the the hose off the aos without pulling the intake? I see no way to get to it. There is no way to pull the rear crossover tube because the boots have internal stops. At least i could not manage it when i started this process.
You should be able to pull the resonator (rear plenum tube) with both intake distributors in place.
Just force the rubber piece onto the right intake.
Use a plastic interior tool to force the rubber seal into position.
The stops can fit over the intake, you just have to force it.
Then you’ll be able to unhook the AOS Hose from the AOS.
You can twist and turn the hose to get it out and the new one in.
Yes, you can get the upper hose off the AOS from underneath on a 6mt using some 30" long tools (kinda like walking on stilts...lol). If you have those skillz.
You can also get to it by removing the center crossover tubes. Slide the rubber boots to the outside, then work the resonance tubes out at an angle.
Also noted your change-over valve and bracket needs to be re-positioned pointing toward the throttle body. If is mounted behind the Accumulator is interfering with the Accumulator mounting and aligning properly.
The Plug-N-Play wiring harness has the extension made into it to accommodate the re-positioned change-over valve.
Just posted my moded bracket in the uaos tips and tricks thread.
I also have all new vac lines and elbows as part if the refresh
Everything is in its happy place.
Looks much better with the change-over valve mounted where it should be., better alignment of the Accumulator and less stress on the bracket and hose, proper alignment is the key.
Did you get the hose back securely attached to the Accumulator?
I sealed it with permatex Righ Stuff. Im letting it dry over night. I was gonna get it out of the garage but it looks like i am 4 litres short in coolant and i need some ch202 since i did a full flush of the ps. Although google didnt have a post on capacity i think its more then the liter i have. Ill be able to check the uaos performance tomor.
to be honest i have always been a good tester. I seem to be able to break the unbreakable.
Here is a 11.5" , 14 bolt carrier from my truck
.
Great !! I hope it holds until I can get you a replacement. My supplier is behind on filling my orders. He tells me it takes 18hrs to 3d print one piece !!! He has 4 $15k 3D printers and I think one of them is devoted to doing just UAOS Accumulators..
Updated as the UAOS develops. Just like Porsche does in there models, it was the best possible at the time, but as time goes on, things can be improved if you try !!
Well, I don't want any negative feelings about the UAOS. The design is solid . It's an improvement in every way over the original design and will keep many engines from "catastrophic failure"..
As with anything, material flaws and manufacturing issues will always be there, it just comes with the territory. Plan for it and take care of it as it arrises ..
As with the Infra-red monitoring system, if ANYTHING fails it set off the warning (slow flash on the dash). If the sensor fails it flashes, if the relay fails it flashes, if there is a loose connection it flashes, and of course the most important function, if the accumulation gets to dangerous level it flashes. So , as long as your don't even notice it there, you are good- to- go !!! (and never replace the Factory style AOS again)..
As far as "first class customer service" goes, I'm not so sure, the lead time of 2-4 weeks has just barely being met, so I have extended it to 4-6 weeks so not so sure that will make everyone happy.
It took 20 years to come up with a better design of the notorious failure, and probably caused many more total failures then we have previously thought, if I had thought of this 20 years ago, the reputation on the m96 would not have been quite so bad.
I would say with the LN Nickies, IMSS and UAOS updates like is being done on Yaz and Scotts engines in the current threads, the m96 is a solid platform.
It took 13 years for the IMSS to be invented, 20 years for the UAOS to be invented, and I can't exactly remember when the Nickies were introduced, but the evolution of the M96 is here !!
I don't worry much about timing chains and water pumps, the M96 is no worse on these parts than any other long chain/water-cooled motor.
Plus I already have Solution A and Repair B plans to handle water pump issues.
Hey everyone, just getting around to installing my UAOS and running into an issue with the absolute first step. How the heck do we seal the existing AOS?!?
We studied the photos and felt our way around but cannot find the breather hole for the life of us. Crazy thing is we were replacing my clutch so the transmission is out and still we're not having any luck!
We're about ready to give up by based on what most of you have said this should be the easy part!!!
Car is a 2002 with manual transmission.
I pulled my AOS and replaced it with a new one that was already sealed, but I don�t think you�ll be able to feel the atmospheric port.
You might feel the Ridge where it is located.
I can overnight you one that is already sealed !!! , wait this is saturday, UPS just closed about an hour ago. Well I can overnight you one on Monday if you want..
Smart move, I think I'm gonna start insisting a new "lifetime" re-worked Factory style AOS be purchased from me with the UAOS kit. The simple sealing of the Atmospheric Port is just causing to many issues.
Joe, you want me to put you an "already re-worked AOS" in the box with Perry's kit ?
Thanks for the offer Doc! I emailed you this evening
I had thought, as my AOS is still working well, that it would be a simple task to seal the port, and save all the work to actually remove the AOS. It's very difficult to see what your doing up there, and it seems that you pretty much have to go through all the steps to remove the AOS, in order to install the UAOS kit?
E-mail replied to...
Yea, it would save a bunch of money and is easy for me to do, most people do not have 45 years of wrenching in tight places, so I will have to save them from themselves and just get them to buy a pre-sealed AOS with the UAOS and just have it installed...
My $.02
i think reaching the port to seal it from underneath for someone that has not pulled a motor from a car and knows how it is oriented is a no go. If u pull the tb and plenums the port area is very clear and easy to access. The process of sealing the port is also very easy once u can see it. I would enclose one good color print or have a dedicated web site with pics of this operation so people dont need to search for it. This would cut down on the difficulties and issues.
Is it possible to install the UAOS without removing the plenums? I doesn’t seem so, but thought I’d ask. I originally thought you could, but now having doubts.
I think you could since your transmission is out.
plugging the atmospheric ports would be the tough part. That plastic is slippery and RTV sealant has a hard time sticking.
The job is a lot easier from above the engine.
lower the engine and remove the TB, plenums and intake runner.
Just my experience, which isn't extensive.
Good suggestions. None of this is much of a problem for a seasoned professional, but can be a daunting task for a novice. That's why I suggest professional installation.
I can R&R an AOS from a 996.1 6MT in about an hour from underneath, and install the UAOS kit in about 30 min.
On a 996.2 the left intake needs to be removed to R&R the AOS, but the port and be sealed by just removing the center plenums and reaching in and sealing, then the UAOS kit can be installed in 30 min.
Jake had mentioned to me that he wanted to do a installation video on the UAOS a month or so ago to promote his video channel, that would be a good service.
I can install the complete UAOS kit, with the pre-sealed "lifetime" AOS, on a 996.1 6MT without removing the plenums or intake.
On a 996.2 the left (bank 1) intake must be removed to get access to the AOS bolts (they bolt down to the head vertically).
There's more than than one way to skin a cat, but if you don't have the skillz to skin a cat, that means there is more than one way NOT to be able to skin a cat. Professional cat skinning is suggested.
No, not enough feedback from non-professionals. All DIY'ers make a project out of the install and are doing many "while you're in there" procedures.
Permatex Ultra RTV will stick to even lightly oily surfaces.
I used it once in an emergency to stop an active leak on an oil pan that oil coming out in a small stream, it stopped the leak and sealed it while it was active/wet !! I actually ran it for a year before replacing the oil pan.
That�s what I was hoping for! I�ve had the throttle body and plenum out before (due to knocking off a vacuum line replacing alternator
), so comfortable with that.
Thanks Doc!
Ok, I have come to the conclusion that I need a professional cat skinner on this.I just can not get to those back bolts on my .2 Tip.
I do see a hose on the lower part of that side of the engine that has oil on it, so may need to have the engine dropped anyway to fix some other stuff as well. Lots of black soot in the front plenum makes me think the intake manifolds need to be removed for cleaning.
I have been doing some "while I'm in there" stuff so haven't been tracking the hours specific to this but getting to the point of having both plenums out and the back mounting bolt on the AOS removed hasn't taken much time at all, not counting time to order tools i needed and didn't have.....
Skip, i have an original UAOS, Are there any updates/mods that i need to make to my kit before i take the car in for installation?
Yea, never underestimate the value of a good cat skinner...
The early UAOS is not much different from the one I am shipping now. Same principal, same design, only differences are ::::
1, The early ones had the Accumulator and the breather hose to AOS was made together, hose was all Polyamide 12 that was heated and stretched/bonded to the Accumulator.
The newer ones have a hose that can be disconnected from the Accumulator and is half Polyamide 12, half aluminum. Being able to disconnect the breather hose makes installation easier and puts less stress on the nipples than having an 18" hose leveraging on it..
2, The ones now include an aluminum re-location bracket, the earlyier ones had to flip the existing steel bracket and on 99 C2 bend it.
3, The ones now have a strain relief on the Infra-red sensor. The earlier ones didn't have this and received a few unwarranted negative comments. I tested the sensor wiring by tieing it to a cast iron
6" bench vice clamp and lifted it..but I did the update anyway..lol
4, I increased the wall thickness on the nipples to 3mm, overkill but doesn't hurt.
I'll continue to make small improvements as I see the need..
Showing the strength of the Infra-red Sensor wiring, that is a Cast Iron 6" bench vice !!
Custom Aluminum change-over valve re-positioning bracket
Detectable Accumulator breather hoses, half Plyamide 12 , half aluminum
Stress relief on the Infra-red Sensor, although not needed, looks beefier..
3mm thick nipples on the Accumulators, overkill I know but doesn't hurt..
WhooHoooo !!
Drove mine over 120 miles this Sunday. No issues. Well no issues due to the UAOS. Had a little coolant leak from not securing one of the overflow tank hose clamps correctly.
Skip, when you say your can R&R the AOS on a 99 C2 in a half hour, is that with the trans in? I assume you are not on your back like I am, but I don't think I would be able to do it.
Yes, with the trans in. There is only 2 10mm bolts, 1 spring clamp, and 2 "quick - connect" hoses and 2 small spring clamps that must be undone !!
If you are used to "cat skinning" and working with "long reach 30" tools" it can be done.
The first one I had done, there was/is no "book time" or "Factory procedure " and I didn't know it was supposed to take everyone half a day or more to do this job, so I did it in an hour.
You can't do that on your back, must have it on a lift where you can stand up and use very long tools, and a variety of "special/unique tools"..
After having done a 996.2 manual now, I think I could do it in 4 hours now.
996.1 manual does look a LOT easier.
But I definitely couldn’t do it in 1 hour!
Maybe 3...
I would consider doing it for others in the Houston area...on my schedule.
These look like nice improvements. Wonder if I should make any to my kit before I have it installed by my professional cat skinner? I have tentatively schedule for next week but could push that out.
I'm thinking specifically of these two:
1, The early ones had the Accumulator and the breather hose to AOS was made together, hose was all Polyamide 12 that was heated and stretched/bonded to the Accumulator.
The newer ones have a hose that can be disconnected from the Accumulator and is half Polyamide 12, half aluminum. Being able to disconnect the breather hose makes installation easier and puts less stress on the nipples than having an 18" hose leveraging on it..
I could see where being able to remove the Accumulator would be helpful if work ever needed to be done behind it. Maybe use the new hose? On my kit one end of the accumulator hose has a quick disconnect at the AOS, so that end would be easy. Is the end attached to the Accumulator reasonable to remove or is it glued as well as stretched? Or maybe I should get a new accumulator as well if the hose is not removable? Or maybe just cut the existing accumulator hose and put a sleeve over the section ends so the accumulator could be separated from the hose?
2, The ones now include an aluminum re-location bracket, the earlier ones had to flip the existing steel bracket and on 99 C2 bend it.
Would there be an advantage to having this bracket vs flipping the existing bracket? Does this new bracket just attach to the existing bracket?.
Thanks for all the work you are doing, this will be a big improvement. Hopefully, the last of the "big issues" will be solved on my car. (Nickies and IMMS already done).
After it's installed, there is no real disadvantage to having the full Polyamide 12 hose that is heated/stretched/bonded to the Accumulator. Polyamide 12 actually cost more than aluminum.
The half Polyamide 12, half Aluminum hose that is detachable , actually costs less, is easier to manufacture, and easier to install. A Win, Win ,Win......two Wins for me, one Win for the installer.
The custom Aluminum re-location bracket is a nice piece, it looks better, is easy to bend (on a 99 C2), and is lighter, and fits better. The factory steel bracket, is heavier, harder to bend for 99 c2, and doesn't fit as nice, or look as good (but is does the job !!)
I have pics of the original bracked modified in the uaos tips and tricks thread. I also would have been fine with original set up but i have a tendency to break things. A little care and it will install just fine.
Hey Skip - I was hoping to have posted this closer to the time I actually completed the work (April 26) but at this point, I can add that everything is operating as it should! I have about 700 miles on the installation at this point. Along with the UAOS I installed new fuel injectors and replaced my drive belt tension roller...found the valuable post noting application of heat is needed to release the thread locker.
This is the complete kit unboxed....I got extra parts! zip ties and wire management casing - those I understand - the poly stoppers, not so much
AOS in place - also replaced my fuel injectors which you can see in the lower left. Hardest part of the install for me...attaching the quick connect hoses to the AOS. Took me hours. I just couldn't get them to click into place forever.
I had to cut this hose management clip off of my hose bundle to complete the install. PT3, that is the only item I would add to your nicely complete UAOS kit.
The completed installation - I have since re-routed the vacuum wiring behind the alternator.
Thank you Skip! I also very much appreciate others' posts of their experiences.
Thank you for the refreshing review!!!
It couldn't have come at a better time as I was involved with some close minded people on another thread while I was trying to enlighten some on the advantages of the UAOS, and the dangers of the Factory design. Jake warned me, but I fell into the trap, and it's so disheartening..
BTW; the two tapered rubber stoppers are for plugging the precision test ports for engine health blow-by tests in this thread
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...w-by-test.html
Just keep them in your tool box...I'll check on the plastic hose clip that you mentioned and add that to the installation parts.
Don�t let them get you down Doc. The silent majority greatly appreciate the contributions, you and several others bring to this place. The rest are just noise.
As far as forums go, I make it a policy never to argue with those that already know EVERYTHING.
The lesser people will always criticize true innovation. Just keep doin' what you're doin'.
Hardest part of the install for me...attaching the quick connect hoses to the AOS. Took me hours. I just couldn't get them to click into place forever.
I am hoping someone will enlighten me with a trick/tip on how to make the "quick connect" QUICKER. grease the O-ring? grease everything? Reaching back over the top of the engine, fully extended and using both arms on either side of the AOS, now p u s h. ugh...about 10 min intervals of one super intense isometric exercise...I was sore for two days following!
I wish I could offer a good tip. I had to use a dead-blow hammer to connect the crossover pipe to my AOS. The fact that the engine was out made that possible. I can't imagine trying to do it with the engine in. I used a little oil on the o-rings and the receiving end. It was the tight fit, that caused the biggest problem.
[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:]
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/400x400/were_going_to_need_a_bigger_hammer_bbbfc4347c9a7c75f8b16a8fd4aaa854cc911e52.jpg
Thank you Scott. For the crossover pipe to AOS attachment I was below the car reaching up and could only get a couple/three fingers on the elbow of the pipe. At least at that location, I could just push as hard as I could on the pipe/AOS....for the top pipe I had to brace the AOS against the pressure I was putting on the opposite side. Glad it's done...oil will be part of the process next time for sure!
I just installed skip's updated pipe and its much easier without the resi attached. I just pulled the tb and crossover pipes out and went in from the top. I didnt even lower the motor. Also, I did use a little oil in thr o-ring. The trick is to get the pipe "square" to the aos fitting. Without the resi in the pipe its easy to manuver and get coreect. Mine snapped in easy to the new URO replacement aos i previous installed.
I dont know why but i dont find working in this car all that hard. Maybe because i have had my hands into eveything from 14.1 cummins to skid stears. On the porsche everything requires a method and a process, its all doable if u just "accept" the method and process.
I finally got around to testing the AOS in my '99 911 C4 Cab. Went for a nice long ride in NoVA and then to the grocery. Connected the AOS to my manometer and cranked the car up after I got back. Crank case pressure was steady, going from 4.98 to 5.02 inH2OC in continuous mode.
I bought the car almost 2 years ago with 26,410 on the clock. I'm the second owner, 2 brothers from Greenwich, CN bought the car new. I've put 8k miles on since. Oil changed about every 6 months with DT40 plus major service shortly after I got the car. Anyway, no oil leaks and no oil consumption by the motor that I can tell.
I'm looking forward to getting the UAOS installed. I'm relieved I don't have to replace the AOS but I was sort of looking forward to it.
Uh oh! Ummm...replacing the AOS is one of the most difficult (and painful) jobs you will ever do on your engine. I replaced mine and pray everyday to the engine gods that I will never have to do that PITA job again.
I haven't read all the thread but can someone enlighten me how to volume of the 'accumulator' have been established? Looks way too small.
What is the consensus about the added amount of joints regarding more possible vacuum leak points?
Hi, I also had a difficult time understanding where the port was when looking at the image. I've uploaded a modified image below and if I'm correct feel free to use it. If not please let me know and I'll modify or delete the image.
Well, after going back over this entire thread, I've realized/decided that I do not have the requisite skills/desire to do this upgrade myself and that the cost of paying my Indy to do it alone isn't justified (unless I clearly have an AOS problem, which I don't) and I don't think I'd ever ask an Indy to install it unless/until I need to have the engine removed to replace the clutch and/or the IMS (again). when doing the UAOS upgrade would be much easier and not add much cost to the clutch/IMS work.
Hopefully, I won't need to do any of this work anytime soon but I'll keep it in mind if I do.
BTW, does anyone know where to buy an oil filter cap/manomter set up that you can use to test the vacuum pressure on a 996 or is the only way to buy a d cap and manometer to make one yourself?
The set up I'm thinking about you can see about 22 seconds into this clip:
You Tube
I made my own oil cap adapter.
I have a couple of spare brand new oil caps and could make an adapter for you if you're interested.
I have thought about selling Manometers and adapters, but really don't want to have to purchase, stock, and warranty someone else's electronics.
I 'd rather just buy and make the adapters.
The one I made for myself, I drilled and tapped the cap for the hose nipple, then added RTV to make certain it didn't leak.
I can drill the blow-by test holes and provide plugs too.
You can find Manometers on Amazon that will work.
I think that a lot of people have gotten comfortable with the risk management of driving the 996 and are willing to take their chances that they will not be a statistic.
We have seen right here on Rennlist just this year about 6 "catastrophic failures" due to hydrolocking caused by failing AOS's.
Jake showed 2, Pdxmotorhead had one, Young911 had one,DukeTJ8 has one, there have been several that was mentioned here that the owners reported AOS failure , then reported "catastrophic failure" usually of #4 cylinder ,that were in Craigslist adds. There is really no telling how many engine have failed over the years that the route cause was never really investigated or concluded
,
but we know of the numerous thousands that have had AOS failures.
The UAOS not only makes the service of the crankcases system easier and less expensive, but STOPS "catastrophic failure" due to AOS hydrolocking.
I don't really don't blame you for being a "risk taker" and playing the odds. If you have a fairly new AOS, the odds are in your favor, but before you spend 1k on some bling for your 996, instead of a UAOS, you mite want to consider the correct priority of that decision.
We really do get so comfortable with the risk taking and "rolling the dice", that it doesn't even feel like a risk !!!
BTW, the design for the Aluminum Anodized Accumulator has just came off the design table and is headed for the CNC machine !!!! Bling !! Bling !! lol
I'd like to chime in after running my version of this setup at lime rock for 2 days, 4x30 min sessions in a quick group. After 3 sessions, there was no oil in the catch can. After the next 5 and drive home, there was roughly 60ml. This is way less than with my porsche aos. No smoking, no apparent oil burn.
Good solution from where I'm sitting, so thanks skip for thinking of it.
I can't do all the testing myself, that's why I allowed a number of Rennlisters DIY Licences ( I think you are one of those
) to build their own for their own use only, for field testing, track testing ect. As this is the best way to develope my invention. Good info from the track sessions!!
Have you done the blow-by tests yet from this thread?
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...w-by-test.html
I think you have a stockish engine? I would like to know the actual blow-by on your engine, to use for calculations from the 60ml/cc accumulation for 4 hours track time.---against your actual LPM blow-by..
I only learned after the fact that my buying a 996 was "like rolling the dice" -- what with the IMS, timing chain and AOS all being possible sources of engine failure -- and I get that the UAOS can at least eliminate one of those problems.
The reason I'm choosing NOT to do it (at this time) is because after I went over the installation instructions that you sent me and went over what you and other people had to say about installing it, I knew for certain that I couldn't/didn't want to try to do it myself because it just seemed to difficult and complicated to me AND I didn't even want to bother asking my Indy shop to do it, not only because of the cost, but also because of the time/complexity involved in trying to do it w/o taking the engine out AND I certainly don't want to pay my Indy to take out the engine just to install the UAOS.
So, my reason for not doing it is NOT because I don't think the UAOS is a valuable/useful product, which it is, but mainly due to more practical and financial considerations on my part BUT, now that I am aware that it is yet another potential problem that I have to be aware of in the operation of my 996, I will be keeping an eye out for "blue smoke" and any excessive vacuum pressure, which is why I was asking about where to get a oil cap/manometer set up.
[Irrelevant commentary deleted]
Yeah, that's what I figured.
Already looked at manometers on Amazon and put one in my "save for later" queue and put a oil filler cap on my "watch list" on eBay too . . .
BUT if you can make me an oil cap adapter all ready set up to attach to the manometer that would be cool!
Will PM you to discuss it further. Thanks!
All this makes my head hurt except for the highlighted portion. I know you're new to 996 ownership, but just relax and enjoy the car, it is a great car/design with a few flaws and quirks. This is the third time you have told me you" were not ready" for the UAOS . I don't want to "sell" you or anyone on the UAOS,( I am not a salesman) I want them to "buy" based on facts/design ,so just enjoy the 996 and remember what my Daddy always told me "never gamble with more than you are prepared to loose"...
There are manometers with oil caps modded on LN web site for $350.
This thread has a lot of info for AOS tests and also blow-by tests and how to use the equipment.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...w-by-test.html
Manometer for rent, tests AOS, plus blow-by values. Similar to the LN Calais one but for 997/997/986/987 only with additional precision ports .110 and .221 for blow-by tests
New version oil cap with precision .110 and .220 ports for blow-by and "low profile" 90 degree fitting for kink free sensor tube to leave manometer underhood on record for WOT blow-by tests.
Thank you for that apology !! I truly appreciate your enthusiasm in being new to 996 ownership, but I must confess, I think I am suffering from burn-out from cynical posts from other members, and it has made me cynical as well, and I took it out on you. My apology to you as well !!
I need to get my mind on something else for a while...Oh yea, High Octane Summer !!
So I've been absent from the conversation for a while, been pretty busy with stuff unrelated to my 996.
Anyway, I hit the "skills wall" on my UAOS installation (996.2 + Tip). Got part of the way and then had to have my indy finish it up. Here's a pic of the completed install. I haven t put enough miles on it to be sure the oil consumption is back in line but early results look good.
The shop was impressed with both the UAOS kit and the "design for install" ease. They took care of some other things while in there, new vacuum lines, cleaned the throttle body, cleaned the intake manifolds, etc.. I wish i could have saved the labor bucks but it was not to be.... Plan to benchmark the engine with the manometer tests soon.
I'll probably skip the "blingy" accumulator, can't see much of it anyway.:-)
Hello everyone,
I've been viewing this forum since last July when I purchased a 2001 C2 Cab M6. At the time it had 143k km on it and now its' up to 172k! Its' been a fantastic car (especially considering I paid $13,000 Canadian for it) and I drove it all winter without any issues. Anyway, last week I got the white smoke at startup so I checked the oil cap at idle and sure enough it is under extreme vacuum. I had been planning to do the UAOS anyway so this event has it now moved to the top of my list.
In advance of purchasing the kit, I crawled under my car to see if I could reach the AOS to seal the atmospheric ports. Yep, I could reach it however my AOS doesn't have the channel. The attached photo isn't mine but demonstrates how the one on my car is. Has anyone seen an AOS like this before? Any thoughts on where I should apply sealant?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Ted
Not a answer exacty but......
the recomendation is that u should not install a uaos on a failed aos so u may not need an answer.
skip now provides a sealed aos with his kit so u should swap it out anyways and before u order anything i would not trust your "strong vacuum" i would test. No reason to throw parts at the car as its easy to verify.
The channel is there on the left facing the drivers side: (in red rectangle)
But as De Jeeper said, you need to replace the AOS if it has already failed.
Buy one of Skip's pre-sealed AOSes and install it in place of your failed ones.
Who's picture is that above anyways.
They REALLY needed a new AOS!
One very important thing a lot of people keep missing about the UAOS is, besides being very easy to service and much less expensive to service, it "constantly monitors for hydro-lock" .. The Accumulator with Infra -red sensor does this.
So even if your AOS is NEW or it tests OK, it can fail at any time and the only way you will know is if you see clouds of smoke, or your engines stalls, at that time you are " dodging the bullet" instead of "stopping the gun from firing."
I have designed the "monitoring system" so that if the oil accumulation reaches a dangerous level, the warning will flash.
I also designed it to "default to warning", meaning if anything in the system is not OK the warning will flash, if there is a loose connection the warning will flash, if the relay fails, the warning will flash, if the sensor fails, the warning will flash, and of course the main thing is if the oil accumulation is a dangerous level, the warning will flash. So basically, if the warning isn't flashing, the "watchdog" is on duty so you can have piece of mind and know that everything is OK..
I see a lot people saying they plan on getting the UAOS, but their AOS tests OK right now, and that's ok if you don't mind "dodging the bullet" instead of "disarming the bandit " that can take out your M96...Good thing the Bandit is a poor shot, we have seen many "dodge the bullet", but the Bandit hits maybe 1 in 25- 1 in 50? Maybe more? We have seen about 6 this year alone with "catastrophic failure" after AOS failure.
Like mentioned , everyone is getting the Pre-sealed AOS along with the UAOS, so you can just ask your Indy to install it. An old AOS may have dirt in it anyway if just a slight tear in the diaphragm..so a new Pre-sealed AOS is recommended..
Thanks PorscheTech for all the research and advice. I tested my crankcase vacuum and it measured -21 inH2O so clearly an AOS failure.
I went ahead and purchased an OEM regulator (not URO due to the backorder issues) from Rockauto. I’m happy to pay you your licensing fee for this solution but it seems you aren’t doing this any longer?
Anyway, After installing it (Without a catch can at this point) I am still measuring -8.3 inH2O vacuum at the oil fill. Have you measured your system to confirm it is within the Porsche design specs?
BTW - even with the still high crankcase vacuum, all AOS failure symptoms have ceased.
I'm not doing any more UAOS DIY Licensing due to I want to make some profit off my Invention, and I want to control the quality of the UAOS's and have a Quality product and not a DIY "hack"..
In the next month or so I will be releasing an "Elite Version UAOS" featuring an Aluminum Anodized Accumulator with stainless steel infra-red sensor and all OEM components..It will be a bit pricey but will be the "Best money can buy design"...
All of my tests and all the reports from people who have installed the UAOS, none has had readings as high as -8 inh20 ,EXCEPT for the tests I did on a "no name" elcheapo flow regulator.
P.S. the standard UAOS with Carbon Fiber/Nylon Accumulator and URO components will still be available at the same price..
Looking for parts for my yearly winter maintenance cycle.
Do you have a price and availability estimate on the aluminum / OEM based version? I might be interested, but depends on price. Will probably get one or the other.
Thanks!!!
I'll know more in a few days, as you probably already know, the OEM AOS is 2x the URO, the OEM regulator is 5x, the OEM breather hose is 2.5x , the Stainless Steel Infra-red Sensor is 3x, all the other parts, brackets, clamps,hoses, wiring, relay ect will be the same, that only leaves the Aluminum Accumulator. Rough estimate $999
The Aluminum Accumulator is coming off the CNC machine, it still needs to go to Anodizing and then assembly. It had to have a much different process to CNC the Accumulator, the overall design is the same dimensions, but a very different manufacturing process. Here is a pic of the front half of the Accumulator. It's beautiful as is but would definitely stand out..
What is the vote to leave "as is" or to black Anodize?? Or should I do both and leave a choice??
I think you should do both.
I’m not sure which I prefer myself.
Since I don’t have to worry about a visual check during my annual inspection, I might want bare aluminum.
Bare aluminum is definitely going to be cheaper for you.
I'm going to do some in clear anodized, it will still look like bare aluminum and the beautiful machine marks will show, but will have a long lasting finish..The machining marks are Pure Art ($$$), can't help but love them...
The black has always been my goal for the UAOS to NOT stand out, but to blend in as an OEM look, hopefully the Black Anodize won't be too "blingy", but from what I've seen from 996 owners, "the flash gets the cash"...
Not exactly, aluminum has advantages and disadvantages over thermo-plastic Carbon Fiber/Nylon. Advantage being more stable material, dissadvantage being heavier. The aesthetic properties of CNC machined Aluminum are a side-efect of the manufacturing process and are subject to tastes/opinions.
The cost of Anodizing is minimal to the cost of Aluminum CNC reductive manufacturing. And clear Anodizing is the same price as black Anodizing.
The additive manufacturing process takes 18hrs on a 10k machine, the reductive process can be done much faster, but is done on an 80k+ machine..
First Elite UAOS Accumulator assembled, sealed, test fitted, to make sure everything is as it should be. This one is un-anodized raw 6061 aluminum. These will be an upgrade option, and a direct retrofit for the Carbon Fiber/Nylon Accumulators, and also included as part of the "Elite Version UAOS kit'..
t"..
I like the new aluminum one's, but being in California and doing smog checks every other year, I am going to stay with the composite one looking like OEM fix.
Thanks for the report !! Glad your finding "piece of mind" that you will no longer have to replace the "AOS", and that the "watchdog Red Warning" is on duty for you, like for all important vehicle parameters, oil pressure, water temp, brake system, coolant level ect.. The more you drive, the more you will find even greater piece of mind !!
I found this recent article on m96 Hydrolock, seems others are figuring out it has caused more problems than previously believed..but I am the only one with the CURE....
https://www.996revolution.com/hydrolock.html
Do you think the black anodized will pass CA Smog visual inspection? Otherwise, I would just install after this year's smog (I already have to change my fabspeed x-pipe back to OEM for the visual...once every 2 years)
The UAOS-E featuring an Aluminum Anodized Accumulator, Stainless Steel Sensor, all OEM components, and the usual Custom hoses, aluminum relocation bracket, Plug-N-Play wiring harnes/relay, mounting harware, connectors ect. $1,050.
The base UAOS with Carbon Fiber/Nylon Accumulator, and all URO components . $350 + $85 MK2 or +$110 MK1
The Aluminum Anodized Accumulator is a $250 upgrade to the base UAOS kit
From what I hear from those who live in CA, it all depends on who your inspector is. The UAOS is emission friendly and will pass a tail pipe sniff. There are quite a few UAOS's already in CA, so maybe we will learn if the visual passes. What happens when you don't pass? Just have to make corrections and try again??
Yes, that Math is definitely fuzzy !! ....$350+ $250 = $700 !!!
But your question was a bit fuzzy also.
There is a lot more differences between the base UAOS-kit and the UAOS-E, than just the Aluminum Accumulator..
I am looking to replace the AOS in a 1999 C2 - 6 speed. Is there someplace that describes what is needed and what the differences are between a UAOS-kit and a UAOS-E?
No, the UAOS is a new product that was just invented at the first of this year . The UAOS-E (Elite) is a brand new upgraded version.
The base UAOS kit features a Carbon Fiber/Nylon Accumlator, a Plysulfone Infra-red sensor,all URO components, Custom hoses, aluminum change-over relocation bracket, Plug-N- Play wire harness/relay,mounting hardware, connectors, ect.
The UAOS-E (Elite) features an Anodized Aluminum Accumulator, Stainless Steel Infra-red Sensor, all OEM components, Custom hoses, aluminum change-over relocation bracket, Plug-N- Play wire harness/relay,mounting hardware, connectors, ect.
The installation is not much different than replacing an AOS and breather hose with the addition of 2 screws and 2 wire taps..
Hey Skip,
Thanks for all your work in developing the UAOS. I have a 2000 C2 Tiptronic manufacture date of 11/1999. Will the UAOS also address coolant leaks from AOS as detailed here from this cat in Australia (EMD Automotivie..a lot of to the point videos he makes)..Has Jake Raby gotten back to you on when he is doing the video...will you be in video as well given your relative close proximity to each other ;0)?
You Tube
You Tube
Sometimes simple questions can be a lot more complicated than you think, so I'll have to give a couple answers to different scenarios.
Yes if you have a current coolant leak at the AOS, installing the UAOS kit with pre-sealed AOS will stop it.
If you don't currently have a coolant leaking AOS, but want to eliminate the possibility of ever have one there,you could install the UAOS with pre-sealed AOS and not hook-up coolant lines. This is not recomended in cold climates but in hot climates would be OK.
That said, that is not the common failure of the AOS's, The common failure of 99% of AOS's is the internal flow regulating diaphragm rupturing. The UAOS completely eliminates that possibility and also stops the possibility of engine hydrolock, see post above for a recent article on m96 hydrolocking.
The threat of hydrolock is real and the UAOS is the Vaccine, and the reason I Invented the UAOS. Some people will chose to take their chances, but we will probably see another one bit the dust within the next 4-8 weeks from hyrolock. Here is a pic from this thread a couple months ago, 6k miles on a new engine with a new Porsche AOS that failed !! (Curtesy of Jake)
(picture curtest of Jake) 6k mile engine with NEW Porsche AOS that failed !!
Jake said he was interested in doing a video, I'm sure he will get around to it if enough interest. He has been busy making lots of good video's..
"If you don't currently have a coolant leaking AOS, but want to eliminate the possibility of ever have one there,you could install the UAOS with pre-sealed AOS and not hook-up coolant lines."
And this won't affect smog in Cali with coolant lines bypassing AOS? So plugging atmosphere still happens if coolant lines are bypassing AOS as well? What do the Porsche gods say...make it
perfect right? Porsche really put a lot onto that piece of a plastic known as the AOS...Doesn't matter how good of an engine Jake Raby builds with Nickies...he's still dependent on that faulty plastic AOS
like everyone else...and if he over builds..bores out 3.6 to 3.8 etc..does the extra strain from the stronger engine Jake builds helps contribute to an AOS demise and hydrolocking as you point out..possibly...so many variables to consider...Porsche by now has to know the failure rate of their AOS is bad...why not build it of better material...afraid of liability lawsuits from all the failed engines over the years due to their AOS me guestimates...
So even with a supplied AOS with atmosphere plugged up with RTV sealant and a UAOS installed...there is still a small chance the AOS could fail..spring a leak..and one would STILL have to replace the AOS again right?
Skip..we all want the same thing...our M96 engines to run without fear of catastrophic failure...we're getting closer thanks to your efforts...thanks
It can still fail, only with Skip�s system, the AOS you are replacing is sitting front and centre and is a MUCH less expensive part, and 10 mins labour, as opposed to a $150 part and hours of labour to change. Plus, any excess oil that might have made it to the intake and caused hydrolock, is collected and trapped in the accumulator that can be safely drained and even has warning light to tell you it�s getting full.
The coolant lines going to the AOS are only there to prevent freezing of water condensation at the AOS, does not effect emissions. The Boxster uses the same AOS WITHOUT any coolant lines due to the reverse mounting of the engine, the AOS is in a hotter spot.
The risk of coolant leak is so low, it is not worth even considering and in the remote possibility that it happens, there are warning light to indicate so there are no catastrophic failures associated.
The UAOS was designed for two reasons. To stop the risk of hydrolocking the engine, and to make repair of the system much easier and less labor intense/costly. It is the ONLY product Invented in two decades to accomplish this.
^^^ Fair Enough
. Do you have a website yet (it doesn't have to be highly developed/produced)? It would be great if you could maybe have a page for each product and perhaps even a comparison. I know all this stuff takes time and a lot of work. Your development of this/these products is much appreciated, and I wish you success with marketing and sales!
Marketing and Sales are just not my thing. I'll have to hire someone for that end one day.
I'm much more comfortable in a Technical Forum giving technical information and answering technical questions to promote my Invention.
I know most people want to be "sold" on a product, and is the purpose for Advertisements, and some Websites.
So what exactly should I put on a Website to promote the UAOS that would be better than whats already here ? Any suggestions would help....
Skip - a few suggestions from one of your customers and someone who has been around marketing and building websites for the last 15 years.
1. A site would give you a place where you can consolidate information. In the forums, your customer has to scroll through hundreds of posts to really discover what the UAOS is. If I was not interested from your first post, I likely would not have spent the time to figure out what the UAOS is.
2. A site would allow you to host a FAQ, which could make decision making easier for you customers. I'm sure you have been asked either on the forum or PM the same question dozens of time because people are not willing to scroll for the information. People that have to search for info, or wait for an answer often don't buy.
3. You would control your own search destiny, so people could find you not only through RL.
4. You can consolidate install information
5. You can very easily sell directly online, getting your payments through Paypal.
6. You don't have people taking the thread off topic by giving you advice on how to market your product.
There are lots of other reasons, but those are the highlights. Obviously if you are happy with your sales, no need to do anything, but for the cost of one of your fancy new units, you could get a site up and running that is capable of accepting payments, etc. Feel free to reach out if you want to talk more (BTW not trying to sell you anything). Just want you to be able to grow your audience, and not everyone who is in the market for a solution like yours. I can't tell you how many of my P-Car friends spend 0.0 time on Rennlist.
Skip will you include diagrams and or how to's on how to run coolant lines to circumvent the AOS for those of us in warmer climates who will be getting the UAOS? It should be noted...
Australia (re: the youtube videos with leaking AOS I posted earlier) is a wicked hot climate like certain areas of Southern California come late July..August..the 3.4 liter propensity to run hot...heats up that engine bay like a mother...just got the low temp thermostat from LNE...so need to install that as well...
Nope, my concern would be that someday the car may end up being sold to someone in a cold climate.
Like I said, the risk of coolant leak at AOS is so low, it is not worth consideration,...... and a low coolant warning is already implemented on 996.
The risk of oil hydrolock from a failed regulator diaphragm is 100X more likely, and the UAOS prevents this.
If you're trying to decide between the
Carbon Fiber/Nylon Accumulator and the Aluminum Accumulator, then stop.
You want the aluminum accumulator, period.
It is extremely well made, beautiful to look at, and very rugged.
Carbon Fiber/Nylon Accumulator:
Aluminum Accumulator:
Ready for the track:
Put my order in for standard unit last night... Hoping it resolves the oil leak I have had both times I had the car at the track, ended my night with a session to go last night.
And have to agree, Tex's bay shows a 911 engine bay can look good. Mine with a duct tape oil fill tube certainly does not.
At least I'll have an opportunity to change it when the UAOS install goes down, excited for the product, dreading the install a bit though.
Looks like it is coming from the cross over pipe that goes to the bank 2 head - possible split. Or, could be leaking from the coupler that connects the rear manifold crossover, although I checked that last time and there was not a lot of oil in the piping. Short answer, not sure, but it's high up in the engine compartment in that general area. Since I'm going to have to get more invasive to determine, and the warning signs of a failing or wounded AOS...might as well
I think you need a section describing the new words that 996.2 Tip DIY'er will re-learn or invent during the AOS install process.
Otherwise it's looks good.
Yea, the 996.2 TIP is a bit harder than the others, but it is worth it !!
A bit of "
fear mongering"
on a Monday..
Check out this pick of oil puddling in the intake of a recent Rennlisters engine. He was at the track and his car was performing beautifully and was nicely prepared. He was driving superbly, car was sounding amazing. There were no indication of the looming risk (video evidence).. If it hadn't been for onlookers/spectators that told him of seeing some smoke out the tailpipe at times, he would have never known !! If he had been out solo carving Canyons instead of on a track, the outcome could have been catastrophic !! This is the EXACT reason I Invented the UAOS..
Very appreciative - Could have been bad. Never would have known from the performance of the car - was running pissah at the time.
Thanks again Aaron...
Hopefully the UAOS will get here in time to get it installed before the next track day on 9/1
.
You're welcome - my Turbo sometimes blows a cloud of smoke on startup from oil in the turbos, so if I hadn't read this I might have thought the NA 996 did the same... you don't owe me a thing, I'm glad to help a fellow 996 driver - just keep on keeping on!
I think you meant to say "wikit pissah" (sorry some Massachusetts humor)
Trying to prepare for install..
Bought the aluminum water pipe fitting to replace the plastic.
I don't have a good set of hose clamp pliers... Was thinking of ordering the below set pliers + clamps to remove and replace with new, thoughts ?
Although �tiker clamps are awesome, especially where subjected to vibration, you likely won’t need them for the UAOS install.
I think that
@Porschetech3
installs those for you unless you upgrade your accumulator later.
You need spring clamp tools.
I mainly use some modified Dollar Tree pliers and a cable wire clamp tool.
I also have some others I used.
You’ll also need lots of 1/4” socket extensions.
My favorite tool during the install quickly became my magnetic 10mm shallow socket.
Take a look at the UAOS Tips and Tricks thread.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ps-tricks.html
Several of us have posted some pointers there.
Lots of tool suggestions there too.
I can attest to how valuable the magnetic 10mm shallow socket will be during install. I have a tip and that sock will help greatly for those with a tip.
I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, and this isn't the most scientific way of measuring things, but if you were curious how much oil has to accumulate before the slow blink coolant light comes on, here you go:
I accidentally over filled my oil. Glad I had this style AOS system to catch it.
Hi Folks,
Now that I have a few hundred miles on the car since installing the U-AOS I noticed that it does not take long to trigger the low coolant warning. This is when driving the car for extended runs, meaning no starting and stopping a cold engine. Twice now I have drained about 3 - 4 ounces of water out of the accumulator (storage tank) after 100 - 200 miles of driving.
I have a few questions for fellow Rennlisters (and Skip if he is so inclined):
1. Does anyone else running the U-AOS have similar results?
2. Is the sensor too sensitive to trigger with only a few ounces of liquid in the tank?
3. Has anyone changed the drain plug to add a hose with shut-off?
4. What will happen if the tank fills up? Meaning it seems the water will get sucked back into the hose coming from the AOS, as it has nowhere to go.
I wonder if the constant removal of the drain plug will damage the threads over time. I also wonder about breaking a tab off the air box scoop from removing and installing multiple times (stock piece from the air box to the underside of the rear lid).
Perhaps a future modification can include a nipple with shut off to attach a line to instead of a male threaded drain plug into the bottom of the tank. If the drain plug threads get compromised I can picture inducing a vacuum leak.
Thoughts and comments welcome.
Just remove the airbox with the snorkel still attached. There's no need to independently remove the snorkel. To replace the air filter just remove the box as an Assy and remove the top of the box once it's removed. It's quicker and easier that way.
A few ounces of water in the Accumulator is normal operation for a car that is driven short distances. You need to drive more to heat the engine up more and give time for evaporation to take place.
If you are having "false warnings" and the coolant appears to be full and there is minimal accumulation in the Accumulator, you need to overfill the coolant reservoir by 3/8 to 1/2 inch to avoid false warnings from coolant slosh..
The threads on the drain plug will not wear out from repeated removal. BTW:: they are Mercury Marine Drain Plugs for Inboard engines should you ever need a new one from breaking do to overtightening. They are to be finger tightened only...
Skip,
My coolant level is in between the low and high mark when cold. If I top it off it seems to escape from the overflow until the level settles just above the low mark after running the car a few times.
By false warnings, do you mean the light should not trigger with only 3 or 4 ounces of liquid (oil/water) in the accumulator? The first time the warning late came on the car was driven at least 50 miles. The 2nd time I started the car the next day after driving well over 100 miles and the light came on immediately.
I will add some more coolant and see if that changes anything. It's a bit of tight spot to get a funnel or catch can under the drain plug so I use a small paper cup and just unscrew the drain plug enough to get the fluid out.
James: I'll try the whole airbox removal next time. It sounds easier than wrestling with the air scoop.
Thank you
Sounds like your pressure cap is not holding the required 19psi. Either have it tested, or just get a new one the one ending in 04 is the latest version.
Also fill the coolant level to 3/8 to 1/2 over the max line.
The Microprocessor Controlled Infra-red Sensor in the Accumulator will trip at approximately 120ml or 1/2 cup, 4oz . If you received the warning AFTER draining the Accumulator then you have encountered a "false warning" due to "coolant slosh".
Pressure cap and coolant tank are brand new. I'll try my old cap (which ended in -04). I'll fill the coolant tank to just over the max line and report back.
Thank you Skip and the others for your help!
Lift the "wire bail" on the black pressure venting valve to vertical also after overfilling to 3/8- 1/2 inch. and drive like that for a few days.
Any air pocket in the top of the radiators will cause a level drop as pressures build up in the system.
Hi folks. I stumbled across this thread when googling smoke on startup at the track.
I had a smoke issue the other week at autox. I got a few runs in (04 C4S Cab), then when I started the car for the afternoon sessions it smoked pretty bad. I got it towed to the shop, and had the AOS replaced, (Porsche Brand), and all was clear for the last couple of weeks. (Maybe 300 miles max)
I went to AutoX on Sunday, and car performed great. Morning runs completed fine. When I started the car for the afternoon session, smoke dumped out of the exhausts. It lasted a little while then cleared up, so I ran the afternoon session with no issues. When I started it up to go home, more smoke came out which cleared up, and the car drove fine 1.5 hours home. No issues on restarting it since, and drives fine. (Additionally, I have the LN Deep sump kit installed)
I'm thinking the extreme left and right turns and long sweeping corners are the issue, and I'm wondering if this UAOS could be the solution to my issue. Additionally, I'm in California, and wondering if there has been any issues with the smog CARB inspections on cars with this installed.
Thanks.
Yes - the UAOS is a really good solution for those running on track, I would say it is THE solution.
In your shoes I would (and did) install the UAOS to mitigate the oil getting into the intake, it instead is caught in the accumulator and that helped a lot. I still would experience some smoking and it was very dependent on oil level.
But...
The long suggested requirement to run oil levels on track below the1/2 mark to reduce the AOS load left me wondering if the oil pressure instability (HUGE G induced oil pressure drops) I encountered on track could be helped by running a higher oil level. The requirement to run oil at half or below on track is something that was echoed by some of the most "respected" M96 "experts" and parroted on the forums for YEARS.
So...
I added the drainback Skip developed to allow me to run oil levels higher than full (full on a .1 dip stick that is shorter than the .2 dip stick that came with my car) and close the loop on the system. The UAOS sucks up a ton of oil, that oil runs through the accumulator and drains into the oil fill tube putting it back in the sump where it needs to be. This development rendered all that "expert" advice on oil level above obsolete.
This setup is, in my opinion the most significant engine development for these cars used on the track you can do.
As far as experts that actually develop parts for these cars, Skip has earned the title as far as I'm concerned where as others in my opinion have assumed it.
Zbomb, have anyone confirmed there is actually oil going up the AOS system
after
replacing the scavenge pumps with fresh ones? Maybe I missed that discussion/info, link if so. Can't remember it being more than speculations and opinions.
My scavenge pumps, which when removed had no visually evident wear were replaced after the addition of the drain back and I never removed the drain back post scavenge pump install. It worked great with no more smoking, regardless of oil level and no oil consumption noticed, both improvements over the previous non-drain back setup.
I see where you are going, and it's fine to be the contrarian as far as questioning what works - I'm the first to say we need more of that behavior, not less, but you NEVER bring any substance, just dissent. You won't in this instance either.
I do find your fixation with scavenge pumps to be mildly amusing though so... have at it my guy.
Yup - that's it.
You can hunt me down if you don't like it - better yet, I'll come to you. The weather out here is good for nothing other than throwing large wads of US currency at the car and hoping when it's back together its better than when you took it apart. I could use some CA sunshine
dude, I was investigating the oiling system over one year ago, here is the 'substance' if you so wish:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...n-corners.html
You can't eyeball a pump if it's worn or not unless it's badly scored, you need to measure it. Where is your measurements? Mine is in the link above, including pictures.
EXACTLY like you I'm a bit feed up with "experts" on the forum saying to do this or that with not enough to back it up. Sorry to say, but you are quickly becoming an "expert". UAOS claims it can take care of oil in the AOS system better than the original system, but fresh pumps prevents oil from even going there in the first place. I think that is a better solution and a first check that should be done when there is oil in the intake.
Nick - I'm sorry I hurt your feelings.
You're a lone wolf on a scavenge pump mountain and it's cold... and windy.... and raining... and you don't have a coat.... and one of you're legs is broken. An overall sad state of affairs that should be sympathized with.
It was not gentlemanly of me.
But, I'm gonna let you die on the scavenge pump mountain anyway... I post a lot of data, and opinions founded in first hand experience of using my car in a way I would say is pretty hard, A LOT harder than most, if that's not enough for you, I'll see if we can air drop a coat for you on lonely scavenge pump mountain.
Nick, with all due respect, I gotta disagree. We know that the Oem AOS is a frail part, and as such, it fails quickly on the track and eventually on the street. Lived thru it failing on my car on the track, when it had a 4 year old pump back in 2006. Pump was fine because it was nearly new. But the aos was a poorly designed and weak part that failed constantly and often. Porsche knew this to be a PROBLEM and recommended to those tracking their car to do two things.
(1) use the Porsche Motorsport AOS (way before the UAOS was ever invented) as a replacement due to it being designed by Porsche for motorsports as a more durable solution, as well as
(2) run the oil below full. That was a solution from Porsche not from community "experts". But yes, community " experts" adopted the narrative.
Along the way came the 2 Qt deep sump that provided an additional 2Qts of oil supply to help mitigate some of the oil starvation as well as provide more oil cooling which is important for many reasons.
How do I know, because I lived thru all of this with tracking my car from 2004 thru 2018; as well as smoking countless cigars with Porsche speed shops, club racers and DE guys at countless track days over the years discussing these issues and solutions. The Oem AOS is a common well documented problem. I wouldn't run an OEM AOS on the track nor the street even if you held a gun to my head.
But there is always a better way, and a few years ago, Porschetech3 developed the UAOS that offers a better design than certainly the OEM AOS, but also the Motorsports AOS. It not only allows you to replace parts easily without having to drop the engine, but more importantly allows the oil to flow back into the engine. The Motorsports AOS did a great job, but, you still need to drop the engine to replace it, and it does not allow the oil to flow back to the engine as quickly as the UAOS. Because of the UAOS's flow capabilities as Jason mentioned, you can run the oil "over-full" . HUGE
What Jason and Skip were able to show in their testing last season is that this also helps to mitigate some oil pressure instability under heavy G turns and braking on the track. This is HUGE.
We can talk about the UIDS and LN Oil Cooling system which are two products that are currently in the works that will address oil pressure stability and oil cooling at another time.
Suffice to say, I gotta agree with Jason, this is an incredibly important product for a multitude of reasons.
Zbomb, first I will adress you. I’ve gotten used to teenagers like you, going the ‘attack the person’ route when they run out of knowledge or is ‘loosing’ the discussion. Bravo, Applause.
GC996: I don’t think the AOS is a frail part. Or, how do you define a frail part might be a good question? Reading the forum most people who check their system find them to be fine, my experience is the same. Lots of people track with the original AOS, no problem. I think there might have been a bad batch of AOS units (maybe a non-OEM trying their luck I the market) causing the idea that they are all bad parts.
What is the worst that will probably happen? Car might smoke, yeah, replace it, no issue. Hydrolocking? That is fear mongering territory. You might as well worry about ice bear collision because that is equal likely to take out your engine.
So, what is wrong with the motorsport AOS? Why not just get that if you want that extra?
To install the UAOS you need to get the original part out anyway so why not replace it with an original( or motorsport version) and have 20y more driving?
The AOS is a cyclone separator. Its purpose is to remove oil from the air re-entering the intake. This is done because oil lowers the octane and affects the air/fuel mixture. (The Porsche engineers where quiet forward thinking since this also helps the later engines to lessen the carbon build up on the valves which plagues other DI engines.) The drainback used on the UAOS (to what I have seen) creates a bypass of the separators and thus feeding your intake with oil laden air. There is probably no amount of oil running in that thing since there is a large flow of air in the opposite way. Nice de-engineering of the original system.
Mrmorningwood: If you have huge amount of oil in the intake it's most likely a failed AOS, the scavange pumps are worn out or a combination. What happens in your case is that your intake is being sprayed by oil when driving. When you turn the car off, the oil flows down from the walls of the intake and starts to pool on top of the valves. When restarting, you engine takes a chug of oil and puffs smoke.
Nick_L - Ok, Several things addressing your ‘facts’ and comments from post #654 in this thread:
1) The M96 and M97 motors are not DI (or Direct Injection).
2) These engine cylinders are horizontally opposed, so not so much oil drips down from the walls and on top of the valves, as you say, but seeps across to the bottom of the case and lowest portion of the top of the cylinder.
3) No Porsche 996 OE AOS has lasted 20 years, period. I recently had 2 new OEM separators fail in first 1,000 miles. Perhaps the membranes for the OE versus these current OEM were of higher quality?
4) Remove/replace an M96 AOS is time consuming and expensive. Have you ever tried to access one?
5) These engines are older and more worn than they were at 10,000 miles. Ring gaps and cylinder walls and piston crowns are much more worn and less efficient. Pump volumes and system pressures diminish. Without updates to this engine’s oiling, more failures will and do occur.
The whole point of any of these engine threads is to avoid a crushingly expensive engine failure.
6) Porsche engineers did not invent or improve the air oil separator system. Now, if the Porsche engineers could’ve designed a catch can system that works with a flat six…that would’ve been amazing! And to truly debase any of your claims…
7) No one, anywhere in the world, is tracking an M96 engine on its original AOS because, if they were, their car was eventually totaled when it smashed into an ice bear.
And Nick_L some follow-up questions for you:
Any track time or track data or track stories or AOS repair stories, manometer readings, oil pressure readings from your 996? What risk mitigation methods do you use to enhance the longevity of your engine? Do you have any empirical data supporting the viability of any Porsche AOS over decades of use? Do you have any method, technique, tried solution, contribution, empirical data to bring to this forum?
My observation is you spend a lot of time asking then answering your own questions based on your deeply rooted confirmation bias and contrarian/argumentative communication method, not any expertise or actual experience. My supporting evidence is based on any of the threads you ‘contribute’ to. I’ll bet my engineering degree to support
my
comments and posts.
Nick,
I would look at it this way. If the UAOS did not exist as a product, I would tell you to do the following regardless if you drove your car on the street or track.
Replace your less durable OEM AOS with the Motorsports AOS. Why, because the Motorsports AOS is just an all around more durable and effective product. Yes, it may cost 4x the cost of the OEM AOS, but you won't have to worry about it failing for quite awhile. And yes, you can track the car without AOS worry. The downside is the cost for the MS AOS and the labor in dropping the engine to eventually replace it.
However, we now have a third choice for an AOS which changes the narrative. The UAOS brings ALL of the benefits of the Motorsports AOS plus a few more.
1. Once the UAOS is installed, you don't ever have to drop the engine to replace it. Instead, just pop in a new inexpensive part and you are good.
2. Unlike the Motorsports AOS, you can run your oil "over-full" due to more effective oil flow capabilities that allow the oil to return to the engine in greater volume than what the MS AOS can do. You can't run the MS AOS with the oil being over-full. It can't handle it. The UAOS has demonstrated it can. See Zbombs thread on Oil Pressure Instability. Extra oil and better flow helps to mitigate oil pressure instability and starvation. Two things that are critical to solve for with the M96 engine.
Sure, Porsche can come up with a revised MS AOS system that does what the UAOS does. But it's been 22 years and they never took the MS AOS any further.
The UAOS has.
Just my two cents from a guy who loves his 996 and wants to mitigate known problems and keep it running for the next 30 years.
C'mon dude, you can't say the OEM AOS is not a frail part when I have witnessed my friends car spit enough smoke after a single track session to have people think it caught on fire. That very AOS was replaced less than 2 years ago and less than 7k miles. Others have seen it fail with far less use. And my old AOS was pulling -61inH2O of vacuum just for ****s and giggles when it should be around -5inH2O? UAOS has been proven by quite a few folks, not just zbomb, who really push the car hard on the track with no failures known associated with this solution. Believe it or not, everything that Porsche puts out is not perfect and infallible. Accept and move on.
Calm down an re-read what I wrote. I can't copy-past ALL my investigation in all my post.
1. Duhhh...I wrote LATER engines.
2. Duhhh...from the walls of the INTAKE. It is the plastic thing that sits on top of the block.
3. I've owned two(-99 and -00), both where original and still functioning.
4. I've replaced two(due to reading this forum in my early days here) without dropping the engine, just to find out in both cases they where fine.
5. How much are they actually worn? please answer that with data.
6. They don't need to, there is nothing wrong with the design.
7. Ice bears are rare, let's not kill them.
Yes, I have measured pressure/temp/manometer. I don't track my car because I don't have a track close by and I lack time( and I don't enjoy wrenching that much anymore). But let's STOP talking about who I am etc and let's focus on the subject shall we!?
Do you have any empirical data supporting the viability of any Porsche AOS over decades of use?
This forum is the closest you will get to any official data on that. Search and try to find first hand failures(not people echoing their fear or opinion) and then figure out if they have maintained the car according to the book. The problem is that a lot of people on this forum thinks they know better than Porsche. They don't use the correct oil(this membrane is in contact with the oil), they use sticky tires, aero parts etc all this means they ignore the design of the car and then they come complaining when it doesn't work. After sorting away all those you are maybe left with a few and that is understandable. Then go on to see how many of these caused any serious failure....I did this typ of searching a few years ago and found that the AOS is a non-issue really.
The 996 is over 20y old and the UAOS has been available for...1-2 year? How have all the 996 survived all this time, if I can ask?
In
Zbombs thread on Oil Pressure Instability I
was the first one to mention and push to use full oil(including pointing out the dip stick issue) for mitigating the pressure drops and also change the scavenge pumps. That whole thread is just an long excercise to imperically test what I already figure out and posted on the forum last year.
So, anyone wants to comment on the AOS bypass that the drain back is causing? Will it be an issue?
Nick,
No question that there is not a 100% failure rate on the OE AOS. IMHO, there is a pretty good chance that if you just drive your car around the street at a leisurely pace, in a temperate climate location, that you have not yet experienced any problems with the AOS. But you will eventually because it is a plastic part that degrades over time. Just like the oil filler tube and all other plastic/rubber bits in your car. Your call with which AOS you want to go with. Just giving real life feedback.
But tracking your car is a whole other situation. Yes, over my 14 years on the track with the PCA, I never saw a 996 engine failure during a DE event. Saw plenty of other things. But I did see plenty of AOS failures. It would typically go like this.
Guy would be black flagged and come off the track. Shake his head and say, "what just happened with my car" . And we would all say, are you running a Motorsports AOS or stock AOS? And he would say. I don't know. And then we would say, you gotta get a Motorsports AOS. The stock AOS is prone to failure and you will blow a lot of smoke just like you did. And he would say, I never knew. And we would say, we didn't either until it happened to us. Then we would tell him to run his engine for about 10-15 minutes and then shut it down and don't track it again until he upgrades his aos.
The smoke issue is only after I've done a couple of runs at AX. Other than that, there is no smoke what so ever. The AOS is brand new from Porsche. I just started it up last night after it being sat for a while, and no smoke.
I was considering the Motorsport version, then read about the UAOS, which seems to be the cost efficient resolution.
Thank you. The fact that Porsche came up with the Motorsport AOS means they knew something was up with the stock AOS when running on the track. (If only I'd read about it a few weeks ago, before replacing mine...) The UAOS is definitely the more wallet friendly option.
I didn't mean to turn this thread into a pissing match, but thank you for the confirmation. I will give it a try (after Christmas) and report back. (No AX until February I think.) If it doesn't resolve my issue, I will be sure to come back and vent.
No need to worry.
It's all good and quite frankly important to do from time to time to discuss from different points of view. There isn't a guy on RL that I have met thru the forum that I wouldn't want to grab a beer with and talk Porsche stuff. Even if we don't agree on a topic.
We all have a common interest. The incredible Porsche 996!
@MrMorninwood
you made the right call , The UAOS is superior to the Motorsport AOS and of course the Factory AOS.
1. The UAOS costs less than the Motorsport AOS and outperforms it by a wide margin. MS AOS for 996.2 $900 MS AOS for 996.1 $1600 ..
2. The Factory AOS is indeed a frail part, is have been revised by Porsche about 6 times (seen in part number revisions) and is still as frail as ever. I have replaced many engines under Warranty / Extended Warranty from Hydrolock. When Hydrolock occurs under Warranty , Porsche will replace the engine. They wont even clear the oil and crank the engine see if it knocks or has any other symptoms, the reasoning being it could have a "slightly" bent rod and show no signs, symptoms, or noise, and still be prone to early failure due to a rod that is no longer perfectly straight, and that dissemble and inspection would just be extra expense. We have seen at least one to two Hydroloocks per year in this form for the last 10 years. Below are just a couple of photos, one from FSI on a new engine that had an early AOS failure, one from an unnamed shop out west.. There has been thousands of AOS failures and some owners have had had mulitple AOS failures in consecutive years.
3. The UAOS has a 2 year Unlimited Waranty on all parts, and a Lifetime Warranty on the AOS. The AOS used in UAOS is made from Polyamide66 /35% glass filled. A Study of this material shows that under extreme temperature and pressure is has a life expectancy of 35-47 years, under Automotive use I would be considered a Lifetime. The part that fails is the FLOW DIAPHRAGM which in the UAOS is modified to eliminate its propensity .
4 . In the UAOS the FLOW DIAPHRAGM / REGULATOR is encased in an inexpensive part that is located in a very easy to access location., This make any service easy and labor effective and saves $1600 dollars in labor in 9 years if you follow the 3 years rule.
5. The UAOS with the optional high mileage/ Extreme Track Duty drain back can drain back oil twice as fast as the Motorsport AOS. The Motorsport AOS still uses the Factory drain to get the oil back down to the sump, The UAOS also uses the factory drain but includes a Second Drain to make the drain back twice as fast.
6 . The UAOS has an Accumulator that works as a secondary oil separator to ensure no oil makes it to the intake manifold.
7. The UAOS has a Micro Controlled Infra-red warning sensor in the Accumulator to warn of system failure or excess oil accumulation to stop the threat of Hydrolock.
8. The UAOS is so efficient ,the engine can be ran "over-filled" with oil to help mitigate oil pressure instability on the Track. ( with Drain Back option).
9. The UAOS is all Plug and Play wire harness connectors simply plug in, all custom aluminium/Nylon hoses are hand built to fit .
10. The UAOS application has been expanded to fit not only the 996, but the 997.1 and 986 and 987.1 engines.
All the comments from GC996 , hatchetf15 plpete84, Zbomb, are spot on, many others can attest to the function of the UAOS also, and even many many more can attest to the frailness of the Factory AOS.
Just one example of Hydrolock damage, I have many more examples..
Yes !! Innovation is wonderful !!
Unfortunately we have a few who think Innovation should only come from the Manufacturer . They think that Porsche is infallible. The truth is that if Porsche had allowed the M96/7 as long a run as the Mezger engine (50+ years), it would have seen a lot of changes and Innovation/correction. Like a new improved crankcase assembly with improved bores( at a cost of $12K-$15K ) a new head casting that is stronger/less likely to crack ( at a cost of $4kea. ) , an Improved AOS system., an improved Integrated Dry Sump System. ect.
But to take up the slack we have alternatives like the Nickies at a cost of $5K, and Hamheads that can successfully repair heads at a cost effective procedure, and we have the UAOS to solve the deficiency of the AOS system, and the UIDS is almost available to correct oiling issues .
The few who don't like these alternatives, would have been totally OK if Porsche had done them. They are trying to be Purest or Collectors of a sort, but there are many many more who just want an exciting car and to get the most performance/longevity out of it . It doesn't have to be "FACTORY" , just functional and exciting yet pleasing to the eye..
The Mezger engine enjoyed a 50+ year run of Porsche Innovation. There were quite a few major hiccups along the way, but they were corrected by Porsche and no need for anyone to have to "step up to the plate" to offer a solution.. The same can't be said for the M96/7 , it only got a 10 year run, and many changes were made in that 10 years, but the main "deficiency's" were never addressed by them.
Porsche is definitely not infallible, but they do try to offer an exciting, fun to drive package.
Just had the UAOS installed. Unfortunately the UAOS is sending a warning (low coolant light as designed), but there is no oil in the collector.
The coolant system checks out and when the pig tail is plugged in directly to the coolant reservoir the warning light cancels.
With no oil in the UAOS collector, what should we be looking at? Could the UAOS pig tail be wired backwards (incorrectly showing high level) when spliced into the coolant reservoir pigtail? We�re kinda stumped�. Thanks.
does the warning flash as soon as it's started or does it come on when the coolant temp reaches about 180F?
I can help you trouble shoot this, I'll PM you my cell number..
Porschetech3 - mine still alerts sometime when the temp reaches 180F, nothing in the accumulator. I just ordered the drainback with filler as I was going to replace the filler neck soon, so would do both at same time.
Why the false alert at 180F? (not always, but sometimes. Last time was sitting in the drive-thru line at the pharmacy. Cool weather in Atlanta, engine fully warm, just idling/waiting for wife's prescription - alert pops)
-Tom Melton
This is due to the coolant level constantly changing in the reservoir, and the Factory measure to compensate, and other factors. It's a bit complicated and dynamic, but I'll try to explain in sections.
The coolant level in the reservoir can change dramatically during operation due to pressure changes caused by temperature or other factors.
When the coolant heats, it expands. This builds pressure in the coolant system. As this pressure builds, the rubber coolant hoses will expand to a degree.This creates a bigger volume in the cooling system and the level in the reservoir will drop accordingly. There are a lot of rubber hoses on the 996 and their age and elasticity can vary greatly. This also means the amount of coolant level drop can vary greatly.If there is any air pockets in the cooling system ie, top of the front radiators ect., this can make the coolant drop under pressure even greater.
Couple these factors of Rubber expansion and/or air pockets, and add a little coolant level slosh from maunouvers, and the low coolant level switch will trip at times when no actual coolant lose has occured.
The Factory knew of these conditions and implemented a 19 second delay in the instrument cluster before activating the flash warning. I have confirmed this feature in the cluster from 7/99 build date up, not completely sure the "early build cars" have this feature.In other words it has to see the low level switch tripped for 19 seconds constant before starting the slow flash.
In the early build UAOS models used a Mini Relay in the wring harness. The Mini Relay could be tripped by either the Low Coolant Switch or the Infra-red Sensor. This not necessarily a good thing, since the Relay once tripped would latch and have to be reset by turning off ignition and back on and it effectively eliminated the 19 second delay the Factory had implemented for false Low Coolant Warnings.
I found that by overfilling the coolant reservoir by 3/8 to 1/2 inch it would avoid all False Warnings even without the 19 second delay because the low level switch would never be tripped even momentarily.
Later model versions of UAOS wiring harness/Infra-red Sensor has eliminated the Mini Relay and substituted a 470 ohm resistor in it's place and restored the 19 second delay. Either way is acceptable, either overfill by 3/8 to 1/2 , or the use of the 19 second delay.
I'm not really a fan of the 19 second delay, but the Factory did that so I'm ok with it. The real problem is lack of control of the coolant levels due to many many rubber hoses...
The good thing is we know all about the systems and that we have these warnings in place.
Many lesser models don't have these warnings, and many engines have met there doom because they don't have them.
I tell my children and any friends that drive older cars, is that older cars don't run on gasoline, they run on coolant and oil. You can run completely out of gas and just put some more in and go on, but if you just run low on oil or coolant you have killed the car !!!
Good. Tom there was also a revised tank for the early models. The original part had a part # ending in "54" and was revised to "55" for better slosh control, but I found that early models with hoses that are a little spongy, overfilling by 3./8 to 1/2 works best..Most cars by now have already had the revised tank installed, hardly no-one still has the original tank still in the car.
Mine is a 2003. Pretty sure there is no air in the system, will try idling again here at home where I can closer monitor it, vs the pharmacy drive thru line.
I know the engine lid fan runs - have activated it with the Durametric - but will also check the fan switch on the intake.
-Tom
IF you are still having "False Warnings" after this, give me a holler and I'll walk you through some steps.
I think I should write an essay on how the slow flash system works with a trouble shooting tree and post it here and to the website.
BTW your full Track Drain Kit is waiting on the new oil fill tube, they are back-ordered at the moment, I'll ship it out as soon as it comes in..
Going through my notes, it appears my AOS was last replaced in 2011, 50k miles ago...
I supposed I need to bite the bullet here. My only question is whether I need to spring for this drain or not? What are most folks doing?
Yea, you should replace it, shops who are in the know of the frequency of AOS failure and the dangers that presents, recommend a 3-4 replacement interval. That's just one of the benefits of the UAOS because it saves in labor costs if you plan on keeping the car long term.
People who have low mileage and no plans to Track the car, don't need the Auto Drain kit. The Accumulator will receive little to no accumulation and can be drained via drain plug at oil service intervals. People who Track the car or have high mileage can benefit greatly from the Auto Drain. It drains automatically for high mileage cars that have higher than normal blow-by, and those who Track their car can benefit from running oil level "over-full" to help stabilized oil pressure drops.
www.ultimateaos.com
If the engine is out for some reason the typical install charge is 1.5 hours . The typical install labor for in situ is 4 hours. Kris Murphy is not a Tech/mechanic but can do a UAOS install in about 3 hours. Here is a helpfull thread with a detailed DIY and lot of Tips and Tricks..
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...highlight=UAOS
Skip,
Might be helpful if you could post a trouble shooting guide. I still have my low coolant light coming on after replacing the UAOS harness and sensor twice back in August, I have since just disconnected the UAOS harness and reconnected the OEM harness to the sensor because having the coolant light on was annoying. I have little to no drain back into the reservoir so I just check it periodically. Car is an early 1999.
Wonderfull !! I look forward to your install post !!!
Jnelso I think you are right. I need to do a comprehensive explanation of how the slow blink works and a detailed troubleshooting tree. It will be quite a long read...lol
I'll PM you personally about your issue.
FWIW,, the AOS was the final nail in the coffin for my 03 engine, Massive cloud of smoke, loud weird noise , we replaced the factory AOS (The factory diaphragm was blown)
Lots of oil in the intake, still smoking slightly, Bore scope found coolant in cylinder #1, when Flat six tore it down #1 had a crack that looked like future D-chunk and a ton of oil.
Very little bore wear. engine had 116K on it and according to the car fax, it had been fully serviced for the first 90K at a Virginia Porsche dealer. then moved out west to Washington,
Found the last 4 oil services were at like 7500 miles, iirc it had a AOS change at 80K..
During break in of the new engine, in wet cold (> 40 degree) nasty winter weather, I accumulated about 1/2 pint of water in the UAOS I installed when I put the motor back in. In 1500 Miles.
I ran the car between 2400 and 3200 for the entire breakin with limited time up to 4K rpm and always ran the car for at least 30 minutes twice a day , doing a 1 hour drive at least every 4 days.
Per Jake I was trying to get a full heat cycle every drive and at least 6 hours between runs.( His recommendation was heat cycles, the more I could get the better during break-in, just dont try and drive it 1500 straight miles.. )
Interestingly enough my E46 330xi had a aos and it had all the same issues, needed the diaphragm component changed about every 40K.
I am doing my second oil change as I type, 1550 miles on the clock, I did the first after 150..
Just make sure the coolant is topped off good and if you didn't drain it all the way and use the air-lift tool then overfill it a little and lift the wire bail on the black burp valve that is next to the coolant cap....
Drive it a few days with the wire bail lifted...checking the level each day when cold... then when it stops needing topped off put the burp valve bail back down..enjoy !!
Cheers !!
Yes , I have recently expanded the UAOS System Kit to include 987 Boxsters and Caymans up to 2009. I have the standard Street Version, with Street and Track Option,all Emissions Legal , and have done several Custom Race Only Versions ( not Emission Legal)..
Unfortunately they are at the moment all sold out and on back-order for at least another 10-15 days . They are held up at the Anodizers getting the anodized finish on the CNC'd parts..
Thanks !!
Here is a pic of the Cayman UAOS System Street and Track kit. You can't really see the Track Drain, it is on the bottom of the CNC'd Black Anodized Aluminum Accumulator, it has a Banjo bolt and banjo fitting with a drain hose that runs across the engine with a Uniseal fitting into the oil fill tube.. ( new oil fill tube comes with Track Drain option).
Cost for the UAOS System kit is $710 + $30 shipping in USA, the Track Drain Option is $175 ...( comes with a new Genuine Porsche oil fill tube with fitting pre-installed)..
IIRR, skip explained how in colder weather the circulating hot coolant helps preventing coagulation, thus aids the uaos to do its job of separating. On transverse engine boxster/caymen the uaos is placed in an area that gets hot enough that the coolant is not needed...
Skip will probably chime in to correct me and explain it farther....
@allcool
is mostly correct , I'll get a bit more technical with a few more details.
During the combustion process of gasoline the main by-products are 13% water, 13% Carbon Dioxide, and 73% Nitrogen
Most of this goes through the exhaust system ( catalytic converters, mufflers ect.) , but about 12-14 Liters per Minute at idle, or about 80 Liters per minute at full throttle, will get past the rings and go into the crankcase ( called blow-by ) , and will go through the crankcase ventilation system ( AOS system on our cars) re-circulated back into the intake to be re-burned to lower the emissions ,also helps to lower combustion chamber temperatures ,increase efficiency , and improves part throttle response..
The " flow regulator" used to control the flow creates a high velocity/low pressure area where if not kept sufficiently warmed above 32F will start to form ice on the flow port from the 13% water vapor that is flowing in the blow-by gases in very cold weather. So the location of the flow regulator in the engine compartment will determine whether or not it will need additional warming than what will be normally available from the exhaust system.
In the Boxster/Cayman engine compartment the factory AOS flow regulator is located in the rear of the engine compartment in a very warm location...( doesn't need additional warming from coolant)
In the 911 engine compartment the factory AOS is in the front of the engine compartment ( where it is very hard to access also) and doesn't receive enough heat from the exhaust or engine to keep the ice from forming in the high velocity/low pressure area in the flow regulator... therefore it needs the warm coolant to keep from freezing ..
In the UAOS Systems for Boxster/Cayman/ or 911 the remote flow regulator is always placed at the rear of the engine compartment in easy access and in a very warm location so the coolant lines are not necessary.....It doesn't effect the function to have them, but they can be another source of leaks or intermix, so I eliminate them completely on all UAOS Systems now...
Hi Mike,
If you need it right away just pick one up from LN, they have them on the shelf and they have ordered some more.
The links at the top of the page stopped working for some reason, and I can't get them to start back, but the order buttons on down in the middle of the page works...
Or I can send you an Invoice via Paypal
It will be a couple of weeks before I can ship you one, . I have had to put them on back-order for the last month due to waiting on the CNC'd Black Anodized Aluminum Accumulators to be machined, then the anodizer guy was in the hospital for a bit, so things got behind..All the CNC'd stuff will be delivered tomorrow, but I have a bunch of back-orders to build..
Cheers !! Skip
Hi Mike, Sure just send me your AOS so I can do a few modifications to it to make it more efficient, and to be "Lifetime", and to be compatible with the UAOS System .
Pm me ...
Yes, the square connector you're pointing at is correct.
The connectors at the bottom of your image go on the coolant level sensor on the bottom of the coolant tank.
You know how the UAOS doesn't have the coolant lines like the factory AOS? Those caps go where the old coolant lines would be. One is on a hose coming off the coolant tank, and the other is to the right of the alternator.
The bracket holds the changeover valve (which that square-ish connector plugs into). There is an OEM bracket of similar structure that mounts to the brake booster line on the driver's side plenum -- replace that bracket with the new one to change the location of the changeover valve because it can get in the way of the new diaphragm.
Remove that fitting entirely and the hoses -- use one of the two caps on the nipple behind the pulley. You'll probably have to remove the belt and pulley though.
Sorry, since I have been retired my binary internal clock is broken, I was up all night building UAOS kits trying to get caught back up after the back-order, and sleep all day...lol..It drives my helpers and family crazy...lol
But it looks like all the questions have been answered, thanks guys !!
@silverbullet
it seems all your first intuitions are correct...as they should be, simple and intuitive..Yes, the 10mm silicone cap goes on the engine below the alternator and does away with all the rubber hose and plastic..
On some models the coolant hose from the reservoir where the small coolant hose "t"'s off to the AOS ,has a plastic fitting that needs to be capped, the brass fitting will replace the plastic fitting..On some models the fitting is "made in " and can't be replaced ..
Just a heads up to anyone considering doing their AOS and using one of Skip�s kits, definitely pay the extra to get his upgraded crossover hose. It�s super nicely made and should be about 1000x more robust than the crappy accordion plastic oem one. It�s also a lot less complicated to install.
I�m in the middle of doing this job on my .2 coupe and I wish I�d have known about it when I did the UAOS initially and saved myself a bunch of time/work.
It�s not cheap at $200ish but well worth it if you plan on keeping your car.
One caveat though, I had to order a new breather neck for the passenger side head ( 996.2 uses
996-107-047-00)
for the $20 or less that they cost from the dealer, it would be worthwhile for
@Porschetech3
to bump the cost of the hose and include it just to make the process truly plug and play.
@khyatt
all 2002 and part of the 2003 models already have the 996-107-047-00 spigot installed on them , the 2003 starting with engine # 0995 , and 2004 doesn't have it.
I should have asked this question before sending the hose, but I forgot. I'll try to remember to ask this question in the future and if needed ,send it along with the hose..
%$#@!&**))!!!!!
Whoever designed that wire loom that covers the front AOS bolt needs to go back to engineering school...
I've got the intake manifold "***** bolt" in, UAOS is in and I've got the rear allen bolt in.
Spent the last three hours trying to get a allen wrench on that front UAOS bolt.
Anyone want to give me some pointers? I have a endoscope I've been using to see my way around...
I think I'm going to turn this thing into the first ever Porsche go-cart...
Merry Christmas everyone!!! and
@Porschetech3
of course!
Yup, got it in this morning. Been buttoning things up. I do have a question, and please look over these pics to make sure I've got everything routed correctly.
First, the question, where does this connector go?
And now for the pics to look over...
Pic 1
Pic 2
Pic 3
Pic4
Pic 5
Pic 6
Pic 7
Pic 8
The changeover valve relocation bracket should be level, it has missed alignment in the left bolt hole. It is better to put the bracket on the outside of the Accumulator so you can better see the alignment.
The changeover valve should be clipped into that bracket where the little notch is.. The wiring harness needs to be re-positioned accordingly...
The connector you are asking about looks like the one that goes to the purge valve ( connects to the little nipple on the Norma Quick Connector)
Also the small line needs to be clipped into the holding bracket, just to make things tidy...
Also the CNC'ed Black Aluminum Anodized Accumulator needs all the finger prints cleaned off to show the beautiful "Coates de Geneve"..
Otherwise looks like a good job !!
The 047-00 neck I bought is at a weird angle and the norma clamp on the crossover hose keeps wanting to pop off. I have it zip tied to the power steering hard line nearby for the time being and so far so good. The hose I pulled off had the angled neck built into the hose.
Purge valve is now connected.
Changeover valve relocation bracket, I think I understand it's orientation, but not sure. Do you have a good pic showing how it should look all connected?
Here's how I'm thinking it should go...
Porsche concluded that automatics and X51 cars needed a little more vacuum for the brake booster at low RPM's , so they installed what's called a "venturi vacuum booster" , that uses air velocity into a sort of "y" connector to create a little more vacuum...
So the piping is a little different to accommodate the venturi vacuum booster..
I'm looking to do this on my 02 c2 manual. Found my crankcase pressure was -18inh2O in March 24, replaced with OEM AOS unit, pressure was -5inh2o and now its up to -14.... so I'm thinking premature failure.. after about 6 weeks!??!?!
Well I might just need to do UAOS. I drive the car hard and often, redline is a good friend.
@Porschetech3
Is it recommended to remove expansion tank to install UAOS? I replaced it when I did AOS in March, but would prefer to leave it alone this time if possible. Though more access to those miserable AOS bolts and the bitch bolt on the left air distributor is critical, I've found.
Depending on how good a wrench you are and how much finesse you have, the engine merely needs to be lowered down to the cross member..
The 996.2 AOS can be removed from below going through the left rear fender well..Coolant tank and intake manifold need not be removed..
The 996.1 AOS can be removed from below also even easier...
Removeing the coolant tank and intake manifold is the proceedure from those who lack the finesse or can't work in tight spaces..
Yeah I installed my AOS with the manifold in place anyway, it was very tight but I have long arms luckily.
@Porschetech3
one last question; how often do you see OEM AOS's fail in a matter of weeks? Any other explanation for why my crankcase pressure would improve to normal with AOS replacement then 6ish weeks later be above normal range? No real symptoms - normal idle, no CEL, only a small amount of smoke on startup that goes away in a few seconds, light coating of oil on intake plenum... car is driven hard.
Just need one more piece of evidence to go for UAOS and I'll do it, I suppose you're biased but also knowledgable haha. Thanks for the help
Alex
It is not all that often that you see a new OEM AOS fail in short order but has happened numberous times, once or twice is not acceptable in a system this important...The AOS membrane is just frail..
Yes when you have high -inwc reading the ONLY cause can be a faulty AOS...
PS :: the membrane in UAOS is twice as thick "Viton "rubber and placed in easy access location...
I asked that question
Because I had just installed a motorsport AOS and wanted to hear his opinion on it. He said it's a difficult install but works and explained how it works. Then discussed the UAOS and it's advantages and the fact he is a vendor. You can tell he is a supporter of the UAOS. Great product.
I'm glad you asked that question. I was watching the PCA Podcast live also, hoping somebody would !!
They didn't get into all the details or advantages or which is the best, It being PCNA affiliated Vu doesn't want to ruffle any feathers, but Jake gave it all the love he could in the circumstance..
@nexus77241
yes the UAOS and UIDS are still availible.... webites
www.ultimateaos.com
and
www.ultimateids.com
UAOS is on back-order for 2-3 more weeks....UIDS is on back-order for 10-12 weeks...
Pm me if you need more info..
Cheers !!! Skip
@Switchwheel
Why do you got to be so negative on a new upgraded product that cures so many of the issues on the M96?
The UAOS is 4x more efficient than the stock AOS or the Motorsport AOS and the UAOS Track version drains back 2x as fast as they do plus other benifits...There is literally nothing else like it and the best thing that has been invented for the M96 in well over a decade...
I suspect you haven't read the thousands of posts I have made on the UAOS in the development over the past 3 years...It would be literally the Ultimate, or if you have any physics principles that disproves this..or why would you make such a comment?
Really ?? How did you find this out ?? I wonder why he got banned.?...lol
Thanks man...I wouldn't put anything else on any M96/7 that I cared anything about ...
[QUOTE=Porschetech3;19444860]Really ?? How did you find this out ?? I wonder why he got banned.?...lol
Click on his bio. It says "BANNED" with zero posts.
Holly S**t !! He's GONE, ..VANISHED !! Even his post here was removed ...I wonder if he was a "bot" ,"spy" or a "Troll" ??
I fall for the Trolls every time....My Son tells me that's my Achilles Heel....
[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:]
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/500x811/trolls_don_t_feed_41b1810a09a0b3e04c993ddd46f696ae6709dd9e.jpeg
Hi @Porschetech3 I bought the uaos as well as your improved hose and had it installed by my Indy last summer.In the fall I had problems with rough idle, and power loss. When I woke the car up from winter I thought I had resolved the issue as my dash warning lights cleared after I installed a new OEM MAF sensor. I replaced the MAF based on the engine behavior and dash light illumination, not hard evidence. (I can't get my durametric to connect correctly to the ECU). And page 208 of the Essential Companion book.
Once installed with a new intake filter, the faults cleared and I drove the car about 100 miles or so, assumed the issue was resolved. But yesterday after a 30 min drive I pulled into the grocery and when I returned after a quick shop, the car started rough and I had power loss and the ABS and psm lights come on again. Despair... I Let it cool a bit. and the engine got me home, with just the familiar slight hesitation that I had before the new MAF. It's the ECU juggling the issue I suppose.Monday I will call and make an appointment with a specialist in Halifax, a 2 hour drive. I'm not sure where I'll take it, I think I need a 996 specialist. I'm posting this here because looking under the hood I found two things I want to ask you about. 1) is this connection meant to be loose? See the pic. The part slides loose back and forth in the slot, where I circled it.
Also, why is the membrane carrier 'wet' with what I assume is oil? Do I need a new membrane maybe?
Thanks for your assistance. Sorry the engine bay is dusty, I got on a dirt road the other day while searching for the family graveyard. I found it, but only after 10 min on dirt roads.
Brandon
@damage98MO
If you look at the gray change-over valve it has a retaining clip on the back that should secure it when it is fully seated down in the slot...It should "click" in place and require an effort to release it..
As for the wetness on the flow regulator it doesn't appear to be an active leak or a drip, just a slight weepage and no concern...just periodically wipe off the residue...
EDIT: I found the engine compartment sensor hanging down from where it was supposed to be. Going to address that and see if it is resolved. Thank you for the info above!
997.1 specific question but this seems to be the place to ask.
I recently got the UAOS installed and no issues with the car's performance, nor any lamps or warnings, but my fans are coming on wayyyy more frequently and for longer after this change than before it. Any idea on potential causes? The passenger side front radiator fan and the decklid aux fan are running like autocross in 95+ deg outside when it's just been street driven modestly in the 60s or 70s deg weather.
You will be pleased with the performance of the UOAS !
Yes, if the engine compartment temp sensor has fell out of the holder, the engine lid fan will run a lot more than usual, but it will not effect the front radiator fans... The radiator fans are controlled by coolant temp and A/C functions...
@BmacIL
No, the UAOS warning system is only integrated into the "slow flash" circuit ( the small yellow light above the temp gauge, and will blink once per second ) ..It is NOT integrated into the coolant temp circuit/sensor/gauge...
I have two questions about the AOS that I can't find answers to, maybe someone here can help.
1) How does the track auto drain option on the UAOS work? I can't seem to find a description of it anywhere in this thread, the UAOS website, or the LN listings. Does this include an active valve that the infrared sensor controls to open it to allow oil in the reservoir to drain down into the oil fill tube? If so, when does it open? While the engine is running and the reservoir gets full or does it close when powered and open when the car is turned off?
2) What is the line that connects to the T/Y port that is built into the Nova connector on the hose that connects to the intake manifold, which goes between the factory AOS and the manifold or the UAOS regulator and the manifold? How critical is it that this connects that closely to the manifold? Any issue with having it tee into the line a little between the regulator and the manifold a little further upstream?
I am installing this on a 986 Boxster S, and there isn't enough room to fit the supplied hoses/connectors and regulator between the AOS exit hose with the suppled 90-degree elbow and the intake manifold as on these the port is on the same side as the AOS. Therefore, I'm going to have to build a custom hose to find a better location for the regulator. Also, the nipple for the line I'm asking about in #2 above that was custom glued into the Nova elbow supplied with the kit pulled out while test fitting, so I either have to try to modify a stock hose and get a good connection on the other end to extend it or use a manufactured adapter that has a tee for this nipple in that line.
Thanks for the help!
Maybe I can answer number 1. The track drain is simply a hose between the accumulator and the oil fill tube. There is no valving that opens or closes. The IR sensor is to detect the oil level in the accumulator and notify the driver with the flashing coolant light. If you have the track drain, the IR sensor is unlikely to ever be tripped as any oil that could be collected would have been drained back into the engine.
Sorry I can't answer #2 or comment on a Boxster installation.
Agree. I run 12.5 qts of oil on the track. +2 from the UAOS T and +2 from a 2qt deep sump in my 996.2. Never had the IR sensor go off. Nor have i had any smoking or even a hiccup. Really is an incredible solution.
If i remember correctly, the UAOS T drains more than 2x faster than the Porsche Motosports AOS into the sump. Not to mention its design is substantially better at catching the oil mist with its multiple screens depositing the oil ultimately in the sump versus intake. All of this allows you to run more oil safely than does the Porsche Motorsports AOS.
I have no answer for the Boxster either.
@JWA33
i tried sending you a PM but you aren�t enabled.
I just installed the UAOS plus track drain on my Cayman S. I may be able to help. I�m happy to shoot a video or do FaceTime to help as best as I can.
The only downside is running the stock AOS. Its a sub-optimal part.
There is nothing wrong with the 3.4 and 3.6 engines. They are durable as hell. But Porsche did screw up with their choice of 3 bolt on parts that can cause catastrophic failure. Good news is all 3 are easily prevented.
1. IMSB Failure - which is easily prevented with an upgraded IMSB like the LN Solution or Retro.
2. Water Pump Failure - leading to head cracking and intermix. Easily preventable by replacing the OEM water pump with another OEM pump every 5 years or so.
3. AOS Failure - leading to intermix, big time smoking and hydolock. All are easily prevented by upgrading to the UAOS.
The hose and port that I am wondering if the location is critical is the one marked with the red arrow on this Pelican image:
Specifically, I am wondering if it's ok for it to tee into the line from the regulator to the manifold a littler further upstream, so that I could use a 90-degree nova connector at the manifold, then a commercially available three way tee with the correct sizes to bring that line in a couple inches down that hose before continuing to the regulator. This is because the stock hose that has the port on it isn't long enough to make it to where I need the regulator and I'm not certain if I can get a good seal if I remove the nova connector that normally goes to the AOS and try to adapt it to connect to the regulator.
Do you mind sharing a reference to the �track only version�? I just want to clearly understand what you�re talking about. But I�ll try to answer your question anyway.
There is a �track drain� add-on, which connects a drain line from the accumulator (black box) to the engine oil filler tube. Any oil that gets accumulated in the box is automatically drained back into the sump.
I also recall Porschetech3 showing a picture of a different type of UAOS, meant specifically for track use, because it had an additional oil catch can. I think it also redirected the vapor path upstream of the throttle body. This specific design isn�t emissions compliant due to the change in the vapor path.
The track drain add-on keeps the same vapor path as the standard UAOS and the stock AOS, so it will remain emissions compliant. Besides, the track drain is very discreet, so it�s very hard to tell that it�s even installed. The accumulator and flow diaphragm are displayed front & center, and are likelier to fail the emission test�s visual inspection if the technician does not understand what he�s looking at.
����������
edit:
Took me a while to find this, but here is some more info on the non-emissions complaint Track Only version.
Here
is a photo of the additional catch can (actually posted by GC996), and
here
is a post by Porschetech3 explaining its difference.
It turns out I�m wrong about the Track Only version redirecting the vapor path upstream of the throttle body - it�s actually vented to the atmosphere, and is surely not good for the environment!
Thanks for getting that cleared up. Looks like the street version with drain back is the way to go, keeps oil cleaner than track only version too. Gotta like that.
Has anybody tried one of these with the UAOS feeding it (track drain) Just curious it looks way more substantial than the stock setup.
https://9ii.pro/
Cheers
Dave
Dave, I have not yet but do plan on it especially since Skip worked with them to integrate the UAOS. It makes sense. But with all refresh items and upgrades, its a matter of working within budgets.
Anyone have any tips for getting the crossover pipe (new part from Porsche) installed onto the UAOS. It does not snap on, no matter the force. I�ve used lubricant and everything.
I wonder if it�s due to the non-Elite version (URO UAOS) having a slightly different material/fitting�
did anyone apply pressure to release the quick connect to slide it on? Is it easier that way?
@d_kay
Could be that the wrong o-ring is installed...
I have seen this before on brand new Genuine Porsche AOS hoses ( made by Norma of Germany)
Pull the o-ring off the old one and the new one and compare.....you could also install the old o-ring on the new hose and try to connect it, or try the old hose on the new AOS and see if it fits...
FYI the o-ring should be 18 x 2.5mm according to PET....I have seen them come from the factory with 3mm thick o-ring that would not fit...
....
thanks! I hope I can get the o-ring off with the crossover pipe installed. That was a pain to install.
I have a few spare 18x2.5mm o-rings, so will use those. Thanks Skip!
Hey Skip,
How often does enough oil collect in the accumulator for the infrared sensor to get triggered if there is a track drain installed?
Cheers. Otto
@Otto Bonn
A lot of people ask me if the Sensor is even necessary when using the Auto Drain..
I tell them that it is a safety item.....While the Accumulator should not ever get full with the Auto Drain, if there is a Scavenge Pump Failure or something of that nature, it can warn of excessive oil accumulation...
Thanks man !! I'm almost caught up , just 4 more UAOS and two UIDS and I'll be caught up !!!
The Elite uses Genuine OEM Components that are modified for more efficiency and/or Lifetime,...the AL uses Aftermarket Components that are modified for more efficiency and/or Lifetime ....
Both have same warranty and performance and can be accompanied by the optional high mileage/ Extreme Track Duty Auto Drain kit ...
Thanks Skip. I�m just now looking into this and probably gonna snag one soon - If I have to replace a diaphragm, is one easier to get a hold of than the other? OEM vs aftermarket?
How does the alarm work? Does it alarm the low coolant warning light? I'm not 100% sure how that works. Because it piggy backs do both alarms still work, i.e. they alarm the low coolant warning light, but you have to be smart enough to check the coolant level and if it's good, then know it's the AOS? Thanks.
yes exactly ...
The Yellow Warning Light above the coolant temp gauge can "slow blink" , "fast blink" and "stay lite continuously"...each with different and multiple meanings.
The "slow blink" can mean coolant level is low, or engine compartment Temp is high, or with UAOS oil accumulation is high...
The "fast blink" means engine is overheating.
The " continuously lite" means the temp sending unit is faulty.
So with UAOS the "slow blink" can be one of three possible causes, you do have to be smart enough to deduce which one it is on each particular occurrence...
Constructive criticism:
This site apparently shortens URLs when it displays posts (for tracking purposes, I assume, I cant imagine why else this site would do such a thing). So printing out a posted thread message on paper with active links results in totally unuseable links in the printed page. I have been trying to decipher the instructions included with the UAOS and its taken me a while to figure out the links in the printed instructions are truncated/mangled and can't be used. Yes, I managed to find the correct links poking around here on this site. Stupid me, I chose to trust the instructions in the package instead of using ones I had seen online. I'm on the right track now.
My point is, sending me a printed sheet with mangled links like
redirect.viglink.com/?format...%20replacement
is not worth your time to include in the package, and actually wasted my time trying to figure out what was correct. As a customer, I would be a whole lot better off if the kit included a simple QR code pointing to the correct instructions thread or the google docs for instructions.
I hope this helps someone else....
I think the best guide is to look at some photos of the completed installation. The trickiest bit is trying to determine the mounting order of the accumulator and the vacuum switching valve. Everything else just kinda goes on like it was removed.
I had the same issue, if you've never done it before it's hard to understand. I'm installing one on an engine that is removed from the car. Now that I figured it out, it's really very simple. I was going to reach out to Skip after completion and discuss developing a procedure with pictures for him. I took a lot of pictures, if I do, we'll figure out where to post it, I think on his website would be best.
Your actually lucky to get any instructions at all ....If I get a set of Pistons or a complete $50K engine from Porsche, it doesn't come with Instructions.... The UAOS Kit for 996 is actually only two screws are some plug-n-play wiring and hose connections more than the OEM replacement..... I actually assemble the whole thing then break it in to just a couple of pieces, so it is obvious how it fits together ..
I have had people offer to make Install Video's at $10K eack, but with MY99 C2, 996.1, 996.2 986.1 986.2 987.1 , 997.1 3.6 early, 997.1 3.6 late, 997.1 3.8 engines it would cost $90K to have videos for each different model... Not gonna happen...
This thread here
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...highlight=UAOS
has 1k posts over 6 years on how to Install the UAOS System just on 996........ I actually recommend Professional Installation, but have been teaching people how to work on these Porsches here for 16 years on everything from how to open the door or frunk when the battery dies, to rebuilding the engine...
Se La Vive !! Cheers !!!
PS :: I'm too old for constructive criticism ::: If you want to rewrite the Instructions and send me a copy I will Review it and decide if I want to send it with the 996 kits or send the same one I have sent for 6 years...
On a positive note, written instructions with pictures can be a no-cost DIY job.
Write it.
Turn it into a .pdf
Put it in Google Docs ( no cost) allow anyone read access.
Adobe has a free QR code generator, link it to the document url.
Copy the QR code and provide it to all buyers, or prospective buyers.
Done!
9ii oil fill tube with track drainback provision.
Yes, I have installed it on one of my engines. It works well. I am planning to install it on all my remaining NA engines.
Mark
Somewhere on one of the UAOS threads
@plpete84
put together a tutorial which may be a good start.
Hopefully Pete sees this and can repost or attached a link.
Somewhere there is a thread about a Subaru (?) oil filler cap that fits the new UAOS drainback filler neck. The one that comes with the kit is cool, but requires a torx...I would prefer something I can remove and install without requiring an additional tool. I can't seem to find the Subaru filler cap discussion. Anyone got a link?
Dude. You are driving a 20+ year old car. You should be carrying a tool kit with Torx wherever you go. This one is real light weight and while I consider myself a bit of a tool snob, having started life as a machinist, this kit is incredibly handy and has the Torx you need to open the oil filler:
Schwaben - 010747SCH01A - Schwaben 46 Piece 1/4" Drive Set
I consider that oil filler with the Torx drive requirement an anti-theft device.
Also, this John Deere funnel screws into that oil filler making oil changes a snap:
John Deere OEM 1.5 Quart Funnel - TY16318 | eBay
. It even has a little handle so you can attach a string to it and loop it over just about anything on the inside of the deck to hold it upright for hands-free filling.
@996-CAB
Did you say the John Deere Funnel "screws into" The 9ii UAOS fill tube ?? If so I have to get one...... I can make a mess pouring oil without a great set-up in my old age...lol
I have been using the Cypher hands free Funnel on the OEM filler,
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=51541...W9pbC1mdW5uZWw
but I also have the 9ii filler tube for UAOS to go on Sally
Just so everyone knows, I had previously scraped every little tidbit from this thread and trained our AI to be able to answer these questions.
You can either browse the docs or just as the AI agent. It's not perfect (but I audit every interaction, which can be pretty damn funny all in itself - should make a bloopers reel) but as it's used more and more, I can continue to make it better. Who knew my degree in Computer Science would come in handy.
And no, this doesn't just search use generic AI to spit out an answer.
It is closed loop and only uses what I have trained it. Pretty much if Jake, Lake, Tony, or I wrote something about something or did a video, it's programmed with that information. It won't walk you through rebuilding your M96 engine, but it's pretty good. Enough I've spoken to the
AERA
about helping them build a similar system for them, as I did for SPEEDiagnostix already.
"Custom" being the key IMHO. This is an AI that has been trained on nothing but the best information, from the best sources. No Facebook funny stuff!
Awesome. Thank you thank you thank you
@Charles Navarro
!
Got MIss Penelope out of storage yesterday and checked. Since you don't need to Torque the oil filler cap, a T-40 in that Schwaben kit will work to open and close the filler.
Yes, the John Deere oil funnel with a screw cap at each end, screws in perfectly and sits there while you pour in the oil. Makes it hands free filling.
I have the torx of course, but requiring a tool to open the oil filler cap is far too BMW-esq for my sensibilities. If a thief is perusing things to purloin from underneath my engine cover, chances are I'm screwed (-: anyway.
Nice, but I'll not be buying a $7.11 plastic funnel that requires $7.46 shipping. Theres a JD dealer nearby, I'll go see if they have it. It'll probably be like $35.
For this oil filler cap, a friend is going to scan the UAOS cap (without the O-ring of course) and we'll add a scan of some kind of finger-handle thing on it, and 3D print it w/ atrocious yellow high-temp filament. I'll probably add some lettering for the type and qty of oil on it as well.
It would be cool to have a knurl or something on the outside of that Custom OIl Cap..... be sure to post pic here or start a new thred and make a few extra's, I think I want one ....
I have had the exact same funnel for many years, with no John Deere branding, that I think I bought at NAPA. I really like the threaded caps for both ends.
Is there supposed to be a link somewhere in this post to this AI implementation? I looked on the lnengineering dot com site and can't find it, and the image in the quoted post doesnt seem to be hyperlinked.
My little Porsche mistress is now blinking the temp gauge light, and yes the coolant level is where its supposed to be. No overheating as far as I can tell. I removed the little valve at the bottom of the UAOS "catch can" and its plumbed into the oil filler neck, so it shouldn't have excess oil level. So I need some "I" from the AI to assist me......
The AI use my posts to gather the answers so you will get it straight from the horse's mouth if you ask me...
If you have the "slow blink" as described in the owners manual, there are 3 possible causes as I detailed in the above post that was revisited .... But if you suspect the UAOS Sensor is faulty the most simple thing to do is just unplug it the UAOS Sensor and plug back in the OEM harnesss ( leaving UAOS Sensor unplugged and hanging) if this cures the "slow blink" then the UAOS Sensor is faulty ....
IF unplugging the UAOS Sensor does not stop the "slow blink" then carry on diagnosis as usual for the other 2 possible causes...
Its not mentioned, but it appears to me that the coolant temp gauge light is sympathetic to other error conditions. I had to repair my clockspring, and while the airbag was disconnected I made the mistake of turning the ignition on (to unlock the steering wheel) and of course when I put it all back together, the airbag light was on. Also, the temp gauge light was flashing. I Durametriced away the airbag light, and it also turned the flashing coolant light off as well. Perhaps this is an auxiliary "Hey, driver, yo! Pay attention!!"
??
How much oil can I run with UAOS with Track Drain, Stock Sump, and 9ii Antidote Oil Filler Tube. Haven�t been able to check blow-by as the 9ii Tube runs a special cap.
With the UAOS System ( with high mileage/Track Drain KIt ) you can run 1 quart over FULL for Track Events....... To run any more than that you need to test and verify Blow-by / Engine health ...
Yes you can run FULL or a bit over if you want and not worry on the Street... ( no need to run 1/2 qt low as has been previously recommended to keep from smoking )
Don't be so concerned with the # of liters/qts.
The dipstick never lies after sitting over night on a perfectly level garage floor.
Fill to the top hole on dip stick and call it a day. After you get to a full dipstick, with your UAOS, you can even fill it more as PT3 suggests. When tracking car or canyon carving/spirited driving, an extra qt or 2 the UAOS allows, is nice and a big help to avoid oil pressure instability.
Added more finally drove it for 45 mins or so to shake it down after everything I did. I’ll check oil level in the morning after it sits all nights.
Everything was great got a random ABS/PSM failure accelerator fast onto an on ramp. Unsure what could cause that.
Also was weird is my engine fan was not running when i parked to shut it off like it normally did before. Engine temp didn't get over 180 the whole drive though.
I have the UAOS with track drain and the UIDS. Running a quart overfill. After coming off a hot session at the track, on startup for the next session I get a big cloud of white smoke.
Has my UAOS diaphragm failed? No smoke while running, and only happens after an especially spirted run with a too short cool down lap.
What gives?
When I had the car in San Antonio TX in June, my engine compartment fan ran every time I drove the car. There's New York hot, and then there's Texas hot.
@CTGTC
to give accurate Technical assessment I need some test results for an accurate indication of Engine Health ...
1 Test Crankcase vacuum using manometer ( AOS diaphragm test ) test when first started immediately and while ideling ..
2 Test blow-by at idle and at WOT ..
Smoking at start-up but not on the Track means you are not getting big gulps of oil ut are getting a mist that clings to the intake runners and a few drips will drip down n the intake valves and will smoke on start-up ... It only takes few drops to make a lot of smoke...
While the UAOS is 4x more efficient at keeping big gulps of oil out of the engine, if the blow-by air flow through the system is higher than normal there will always be some oil mist get through ...
Ugh, failed smog in CA today. I brought up Appendix G and they told me to take it up with the BAR as "relocation counted as a modification."
Does anyone else have experience with retesting? Do I need to give it a week or two before I find a new shop?
Did you fail visual inspection? Or was there something else wrong with the test that caused them to look closer? Seems odd that a smog technician would be familiar enough with the M96 engine to even think the UAOS isn't OEM�especially since it's somewhat obscured behind the intake snorkel.
Yes, I was surprised that it was caught during the visual inspection. They said it would have passed otherwise. They were adamant that I need an EO sticker for the system.
No other modifications to the engine or car outside of a Fister style exhaust, so I'm surprised they took such a close look.
I'll bet the Smog guy didn't even read the Appendix G , it clearly states what parts need CARB EO Verification and what parts doesn't ..
I think you are the first one in CA that has been failed by a knucklehead Inspector......
Happy update. I went to a knowledgeable shop who understood that the UAOS does not affect emissions since AOS are exempt from EO #s & it remains a closed system.
My advice to others in CA is to get an opinion prior to the smog test to save yourself some grief.
^ This is what is making me hesitant about installing the UAOS that I received a week ago.
My story is that my 2002 C2 base model has been great since I got it 1 1/2 years ago, except for the AOS.
Right after I bought the car w/ 50.5K miles, I had some maintenance done (water pump, fluids, aos, etc). Since reading this forum I got a
manometer and peridically checked crankcase vacuum. All was well, 4-7" H2O, for about 5 months, then vacuum went up to 12-15" and stayed there.
No other issues at all, no CEL, no oil usage, no smoke on startup (maybe once or twice but not enough to be concerning), good UOA, still drove and ran great.
I would not have thought there was a problem if I didn't check with the manometer.
Anyway, took it back to the shop that did the work. they checked it over, including fuel trim numbers, and agreed the vacuum was high and replaced the aos under warranty. All was well with good readings for about a month or so, and then it suddenly went back up to 12" again and has stayed there!
The shop I used seems very knowledgeable on 996's and has been great, they used Porsche OEM parts, etc., but are hesitant about replacing it again.
I went ahead and purchased the UAOS and expect/hope it's the answer.
Also as info, I have checked several times after longer drives, and reading is around 12 ", but when I turn the AC on, it immediately drops to 5" and stays there. Again, if I hadn't put the gage on I would have never expected a problem, and I have to wonder if it's really a serious problem or not?
Sorry for the long ramble, but I'm thinking about waiting until after my next smog check to put the UAOS in, thereby giving me 2 more years without a smog inspection worry. Depending of course on the car continuing to run great as it does now.
Also, can anyone in the greater Sacramento area recommend a smog check shop that they know will pass the visual inspection with an UAOS installed? If so, I would really appreciate a PM with info.
I'm hoping for some good advice from the experts here, love the car and this forum has been great.
@Davy
when Testing AOS function the value should never be above 4-6 inh20 even on start-up..... That why I keep advising everyone to test on start-up and after idling or even after revving using the Max / Min function of the manometer... I have seen the value go as high as 50 inh20 then drop back down to 6 inh20 in a matter of seconds...This is what you may see when the AOS is just beginning to fail ..
But the valve should never be above the 4-6 inh20 range whether first started or idling or after full throttle....., or it is failing ..
I just replaced my UAOS diaphragm with a new URO part and my manometer logged a maximum vacuum reading of 8-ish inH2O during startup (from engine off to engine on). It settled to an idle vacuum reading of 5.6 inH2O pretty quickly (after exiting the manometer's max/min recording function, about 5 seconds after engine start).
You're telling me that my new diaphragm has an issue?
I replaced it as part of preventative maintenance. There was nothing wrong with the original as it was still perfectly functional.
Search "URO 077 103 245B", lots of places have it.
FYI- I had sent a message about an order to the UAOS website “contact me” with no response for several days and thought that it was odd. Yesterday I received a message back from Skip saying that he is back in the hospital with an emergency. Sending him the best wishes and hoping he is on the mend soon.
I replace parts on a preventative maintenance basis as well. This valve leaked oil after my install and I needed a replacement. I appreciate the part #. My Indy knew it was a common VW part, but having the exact part number is much appreciated.
I'll pop in and out periodically but probably will not comment just depending on how I feel at that very moment. My focus will be on my health, getting better and more stable and getting out of the Hospital ...
Thanks for the well wishes...
Can anyone give me feedback on installing the track drain back tube after the UAOS has been installed. Part of my engine rebuild agreement was to have the UAOS installed, however at the time of rebuild completion the UAOS was not available because of Skip�s unfortunate health issues so an OEM one was temporarily installed. I now have it, but have since decided I want to include the drain, which puts me back in the waiting game because now it is currently unavailable. Do I have my mechanic install the UAOS as is now or do I wait until I can have him do it all at the same time? If I have it installed without, how hard/accessible is it to do later as a DIY project? It looks pretty straightforward, unless I�m missing something. I Appreciate any insight you can offer.
Get well soon PT3!
You can install the UAOS now. The track Drain back feature replaces the drain plug at the bottom of the UAOS reservoir with a banjo bolt and hose that runs over to the oil fill tube. That can be retrofitted later.
This exact thing happened to me. A bit over 6 months ago the original AOS in my 02 was failing (reading 12 in h2o). I had it replaced when they had the trans out for IMS/Clutch/RMS etc last September. After that it tested normal. I drove the car about 500 miles, put it away for the winter. Fast forward to the spring and it�s running great. June rolls around and I decide to test some things before bringing it in for semi annual service, and it�s reading 22! No smoke, no loss of oil, only a very very faint whistle. Same thing, a Porsche oem part. Now it�s got to go back to the shop. I feel your pain.
Never ever replace the AOS with anything but the UAOS System....( yes I am biased because I invented it, but it's true )
It fixes SO many problems on the M96, besides just the ones of repeated failed OEM AOS's ...
I just sent 5 for 996's to LN Engineering for Stock so they should have one for a little while anyway .........
They are in high demand and hard for me to keep up with ...
Thanks ... I don't go to 987 986 or 997 Forums very much ( 996 is what I have and where the UAOS Invention originated, the others just begged me to make it fit their cars..lol ),but I'll go over there and straighten out few things .
@pahanorlando
The difference between the Elite and the AL is the Elite uses Genuine Porsche AOS that is modified to be more efficient and Lifetime and a Genuine Audi Flow Regulator......The AL version uses an Aftermarket Vieco or URO AOS that is modified to be more efficient and Lifetime and an Aftermarket Vieco or URO Flow Regulator......Both are made of same materials and have same performance and warranty.....but that is the price difference ...
You will be extremely pleased with either Version !!!
@Porschetech3
Skip, maybe I am missing a post here, but is this your website? I've torn my car apart looking for a vacuum leak (found the resonance valve on the intake leaking) and have gone way too far with the "well, might as well do this while I am in here!" idea. That includes doing my AOS. LN says 2 weeks to ship one, will I get one faster if I buy from the website below? I can wait but I am impatient and want to get the job done!
https://ultimateaos.com/
@AeroF16
Yes that is my website...
What year model Porsche do you have ? LN buys a Stock Order from me every month but they only Stock about 6 of the 22 different versions that I have....... I have the 986-2.5,986.1, 986.2, 987.1A, 987.1B, My99c2 , 996.1, 996.2, 997.1A, 997.1B, 997.1C ....and each of these is available in basic Al or E ( Elite) so thats 22 different versions......... and of course the Optional high mileage/Extreme Track Duty Auto Drain can be added to any one of these...
Yes you will get it faster if you order it from me because if LN doesn't have it in Stock they will send me a "Drop Ship" order for me to send it to you when I get it built.......And I try to build in bunches depending on what orders I have and what is next in queue...
Wow...same exact story here. Saw the original unit was hitting 12-15. Had it replaced with a Porsche OEM unit last September. I measured it warm, shortly after and got the expected 5-6. Fast forward to this spring/summer, car is running great. In June after a long spirited drive, on a whim I decided to measure it, and it's like 15. I bought another manometer, I even paid a local shop just to re-check my work, and they all got around the same value, 13-15. But the shop I had it done at feels the same way yours does. No smoke, no CEL, no oil loss (they measured it in grams), no oil in the intake, fuels trims and i quote "are the best I've ever seen in a 996". So suffice to say they are not eager to rip the whole thing apart again. And because Porsche never actually came up with an official test for this (like BMW has, which coincidentally is above 13-15 in/h2o), it puts the customer in a tougher spot than we should be in. I 100% believe that above 5-6 means it's failed, and the UAOS seems to be the best upgrade available.
But the data guy in me just doesn't understand how that can happen, and simultaneously show no other symptoms. Nor can anyone explain anything else that would cause an elevated crankcase vacuum.
Any chance you put yours away for the winter, and then had this happen? Mine was fine prior to being put away for the winter. Maybe there is a connection. Purely academic at this point.
The OEM AOS is a POS, and the replacements are even worse..............( hence just one of the reasons I invented UAOS )
They can be "bench tested" to prove they have failed. ...........( even without a Manometer ).............Just send it to me and I'll test it FOC ..
I can't stand to see people use the inferior design, but the frugalness just overwhelms some people on things that "should" matter..
When you measure high crank case vacuum the regulating valve inside the AOS fails to close.
Closed depicted below
For that to happen either
1. the diaphragm is torn
2. something prevents the center part of the diaphragm to fully seal against the tube mouth.
In case of cause 1, I would expect a squealing o whistling sound but a definitive clue would be that you never see ~5 inH2O at idle ever again.
If you see high vacuum at idle intermittently and ~5 inH2O at other times, it would be cause 2 and replacing a recently fitted AOS probably will help only briefly.
I cannot think of anything inside the crankcase that could prevent the closure but after years in use, the diaphragm can seriously gunk up
At less vacuum inside the intake, the spring keeps the diaphragm up and blow-by is sucked into the cilinder
Thanks Hardtrailer, good explanation in more simple terms..
Remember the UAOS/AOS is a much more sophisticated system than a "PCV" or a " Fixed Orifice " System ......and the reason it does a much better job at controlling blow-by gasses/emissions, but it fails in controlling oil separation and robustness and ease of replacement/service ..
The system has 4 Pressures that are "balanced" by the diaphragm .. (1) Atmospheric Pressure (2) Spring Pressure (3) Blow-by Pressures (4) Intake manifold Negative Pressures....These pressures are balanced by the diaphragm and is why the crankcase pressures go UP when the diaphragm fails , and diaphragm failure is the Number 1 cause of failure
And then there is the numerous things the UAOS improves on besides the more robust and easy access diaphragm ..
My 996 is driven year round, no hard winters here!
In late July I had the UAOS installed and it's been great so far. I've checked it several times and the readings are staying right around 3.3" H2O.
I think it might be fixed!
This is interesting, because my theory is that it's the spring or valve itself that's causing my issue, NOT a tear. I get no squeal, and in the case of a tear, I would expect fuel trims to widen out because now you have access to unmetered air via that atmosphere port in the AOS (the one the UAOS seals off).
My understanding is, normally the diaphragm would prevent that, but a tear in it would allow air to enter there.
My first one lasted 23 years, the second one lasted 9 months. Yet both seem to have failed in the same way.
If i pull my dipstick, it drops to 4-5 in/H2O, though i guess that would be expected since i'm adding a path of unmetered air.
Anyway, this is all academic, the thing ain't workin' anymore.
I would say that "you get what you pay for " , but with Porsche that's just not the case..... The prices are crazy ...The 987.1 MAOS is $1600.00 the 996.2 MAOS is $800.00 the OEM 997.1 "S" OEM AOS is $600.00, these are just a piece of molded plastic with a rubber diaphragm a spring and some Engineering...The UAOS outperforms them by leaps and bounds.
BTW :: prices on all UAOS items will go up by 20% on 9/11 . I have had the same prices for 6 years while all my materials and supplies have gone up tremendously ..
In the process of placing an order for my UAOS. Anyone have a rec on a shop in the LA/SoCal area who is familiar with installing the UAOS? My stock AOS is starting to show signs of failing and I want to get ahead of it.
@SJ 997.2 C4S
Is your car a 997.2 like what your Screenname is referencing?? If so you have the MA1/9A1 style engine and the UAOS was not designed to cure problems with that engine family..
@SJ 997.2 C4S
Thanks for confirming your Porsche model.... Yes we have a UAOS kit to upgrade that System .. I would suggest going on the LN website to find an LN Certified Installer in your area...They are Certified on the LN IMS Solution and should be familiar with the UAOS System ..( although they are not Certified on UAOS installations they should be familiar with it , if not just call a local Indy,, by now most should be familiar with the UAOS System ) ..
Hi Skip! Just got my car home from Slakker and had the UAOS w track mod installed. I'll make a rebuild post at some point soon, but want your input in the meantime.
I think it is very likely that I'll need to upgrade my oil cooler to the 997 cooler to manage higher oill temps going forward. Problem is, I think the AOS aluminum module has interference with that larger cooler. Any ideas on how I can adjust the plumbing in here? the 986 makes everything a tight fit.
@fazm
Yes, I have updated the Accumulator mounting location for 987.1 and 986 so it can accommodate the Larger oil Coolers and also IPD Plenums...
It is now mounted under the rear shelf area just to the passenger side like in the pictures below..
Perfect - I need whatever hardware and different hoses support moving the part to that location. I'd also love some input on optimizing emptying the accumulator. Can I put some kind of valve on there?
Happy to email or DM you - whichever works - if I need to order hardware from you. I like the new location. By all indications, once I get oil temps under better control, I'm going to need to work on opening up the intake on this car to feed the motor now. Really appreciate the quick reply!
Also, I am buying up oil like a prepper in this environment!
@fazm
I have a high mileage/Extreme Track Duty Auto Drain Kit for 986 models ( all models actually )
You will need the new mounting bracket, and all new hoses to convert to the new location ......
You can still use your Accumulator, AOS, and Sensor/Harness
Send me a PM with your e-mail
