carfax sucks...wrong report on my own car

My M5 is perfect now, but had the unfortunate curse of being involved in two accidents (neither my fault, but that's scant comfort when some idiot hits your baby). First time, red light runner smacks my entire right side. 26k damage and insurance wouldn't budge on calling it a total. Everything remotely possible was replaced, not repaired, including the entire right side unibody piece. This was done at a dealer which had their own attached body shop. Seemed to be good as new after out of the shop, but I knew the resale value would never be recovered, so got some cash out of the idiot's insurance company for diminished value. I added a bunch of Dinan mods and just figured I'd keep the car forever until I drove it into the ground. 6 months later though, second idiot which I can't really blame too much jumped in front of me on Hwy 17 to Santa Cruz. Yep, a deer, and not just some tiny one but the freaking alpha male. Smacked that sucker dead on going 60-65 by the time I'd slowed down - literally time slowed and I saw that deer get punted a good 100 feet up the highway as I came to a screeching halt on ABS. I swear the deer was still alive, but we'll never know because 10-15 idiots in cars behind me ignored me pulled over in left lane blocking traffic, and just zoomed into right hand lane and passed me. Smacking that poor deer again and again. After awhile, there wasn't a deer, just chunks of red. The first cop that showed up couldn't figure out what I hit until he shone his lights a couple hundred yards up the road. Anyway, this is all to say I had two major accidents and body/suspension work done. 26k job first one, and 12k for the deer hit. Supposedly no motor or frame bent in either one, but this is definitely not a car I'd ever buy or advise anyone to buy no matter how good the deal. So again, my theory of driving it into the ground. I always thought I'd just keep that plus my p-car, but I love my p-car so much, I can't think of a reason to keep it, so just for kicks I went to a BMW dealer to see what ridiculous low price they'd quote me given what I assume an instant research on the car would show as two major accidents. They quoted me about $5k ABOVE the best Kelly blue book price I thought I'd get for a dealer trade. I was sorta stunned and didn't say anything and left saying I'd think it over. So today for the very first time, I paid the 29.99 and went to carfax.com and ordered a vehicle history on my own car. Since I'm the one and only original owner, I damned well know exactly what that report ought to say - two major accidents. It came back as clean bill of health, zero problems, and even the big bold type saying if I bought this car and the info was wrong, carfax would buy that car back from me. This shocks me quite a bit. I figure if someone got work done on their car through some shady private shop, maybe there'd be no record, but not only did I get both major work done at a dealer bodyshop, but I obeyed all DMV regulations and filed the accident reports, the one required if any damage exceeeded over $500, etc. Not to mention the insurance papers - first time with the other insurance company and second time with my own as I used comprehensive. Is carfax just a POS service? Knowing what I know now, there's no way I'm going to buy a private party purchase based on carfax telling me everything is clean on that car.

That's wild! I ran the free carfax on my car about a week ago. (a link was posted in one of these forums) I knew that I was the 3rd owner but the carfax said it only had one owner... Hmmm... It really makes me wonder if that is accurate at all. I'm not an expert but I think some states do not report into carfax. Could someone verify that?

I have seen many, many reports on various boards, both Porsche and BMW, that say the same thing you experienced. It's not at all unusual for people to find a clean Carfax on a car that they personally know had a significant accident history. The bottom line is that if you get a negative report from carfax, you can probably believe it, but if you get a clean carfax you're not safe, the buyer must still beware. I don't know how this occurs, but I've heard of it often enough that I'm wary of carfax reports.

I'm just wondering how they can stay in business given the 'we'll buy it back guarantee' if a vehicle they said was good turned out to have accident damage. Must be the people who buy the cars probably never find out and therefore don't take up the guarantee to unload the car to carfax?

x

I don�t have a copy of the Carfax guarantee. However, from the limited remarks on the web site with regard to the Carfax data base. I think they have lots of �wiggle room� (legal term) in their guarantee. Without even mentioning the burden of discovering the problems, it appears that you would have to prove there was such a problem. Then you would have to prove Carfax knew there was a problem and didn�t report it. I glean this from the fact that they make reference to how the collect data (the DMVs of various states report maybe some insurance companies � its difficult to ascertain this from just the information on web site). If the DMV does not have a history of the accident then more then likely Carfax has a defense because there is no way it could know. Additionally, even if a DMV had a record one would still have to prove the DMV �reported� it to Carfax and that Carfax did not include it on the report. I bet in the language of the actual guarantee there are even more stipulations for getting Carfax to buy back a car. I don�t think Carfax is losing any sleep over the potential of buying back vehicles. That said I had a former Acura Integra that I bought new. It was involved in 3 accidents during my 9 years of ownership � including over $9.5k when it had less 5000 miles on it (well over the 50% of its value) where almost every body panel was replaced (not my fault), a $5k repair (not my fault) and a $1500 repair (my fault). None showed up on the Carfax when I ran it. Bottom line�Carfax is a tool not the end all be all of the history of a car.

DMV doesn't have to report anything - any accident report over $500 is legally required in California from both parties via the SR-1 accident report, no matter who was at fault. Technically, if one driver files and the other doesn't (as a courtesy but not legally required, some insurance companies do it for you), it's a license suspension offense. This plus other information such as speeding tickets (other than those sunk below water after 3 years, or excused via traffic school) are all public record, and DMV doesn't need to release it to carfax or prove that they did. Carfax just needs to query DMV for the 'above water' info on any particular person/vehicle driving record, which is what they sell as their service - that they do all the research for you. As for how would you prove it to carfax, there is such a thing as an honest bargainer selling a used car. Personally I go way above board on this and wouldn't do it, but I would think nothing wrong if a seller put their car up for sale and did not mention it was involved in an accident unless specifically asked by the buyer. Don't ask, don't tell right? So say it wasn't me but someone else that owned my car with two accidents but clean carfax report. That person could be 100% honest and tell nothing, or even go the literal truth path of - "this car has a clean carfax report, and here's the URL link to prove it". (carfax gives you a link you can give to anyone to view your own report for free - which is also where it states right there they will buy the car back if wrong) I'm sure there are always legal technicalities involved in getting the guarantee enforced, if possible at all given fine print. However, given the above scenario, if the buyer went back to the seller later because some condition/info came to light later, the seller could confirm the truth and even provide records of estimates, work done, etc. Or better yet, close examination in many cases can obviously tell whether the car had been in a major accident before, even if there wasn't frame damage or engine damage. Such as in my cursed M5 - if you were to really look closely and raise the car up on a rack, you'd see that the entire suspension plate is not the factory one, and if you pulled the backseats out and the covers off, you'd see the new weld points where they cut out and installed the new right side unibody frame) For the example brought up by teflon_jones - yes, I would most definitely consider this a "major" prior accident. I can agree that 29k worth of damage is not "major" accident by most common sense interpretation if that amount was an insigificant proportion of the original price. Like say 29k on a 1 million dollar car which would be peanuts. But more in reality, even on a $150k car, that's close to 20%. As noted above, even without any frame or engine damage, there would be physical points you could find and show as evidence that the car had a major repair before in many cases. Sure, not all of them, and I'm not even going to say most of them. But definitely in a LOT of accidents involving 20-50% of MSRP repairs even without frame or engine damage, even an amateur like me could spot this prior repair work with a close inspection. And yes, some of that close inspection may not seem logical to do until a year later, or perhaps never. But again, I'd contend that in a lot of the cases, it sure would seem to be a poor position for carfax to be in. All in all, I'm just saying I'm relatively a naive person in this that got newly educated because despite having both technical degrees and a combo MBA/JD, I got sold along with what I 'm sure are a lot of other people the carfax hogwash that even dealers now stick up saying "free carfax report" as if it was really worth anything.

Moz You need to know about diminshed value and all of its implications for you and your insurance based on the lower resale value having been in two accidents. I do not know about the law in your state but it can be very important before settling on any insurance claim. ScottS

It was almost 3 years ago, but when my red light runner rammed me, her insurance fixed my car plus I was able to get $7k in cash for diminished value. Had to really argue that and get a lawyer (my friend), but it was more for the mental soothing of my anger as no amount of money was going to make me happy. I just sort of wanted to screw the other person's insurance as much as I could given I came out on the short end of the stick even though it wasn't my fault at all. I'd have sued the deer too if I could have

This reinforces the importance of a good PPI. A few years ago (before Carfax, or at least I didn't know about it) I was shopping for a Subaru for my wife. This seller showed me a clean-looking car, and admitted to a small fender-bender and repaint on the right side of the car. I asked if that was it, and he said "yes." So we agreed on a price, pending a PPI at my cost. I took it to a mechanic, who said "this car's been in an accident." I said "I know, right side, correct?" and he said "well that, but there was a bigger accident on the left side," and he showed me where it had been repainted. Long story short, the car also needed a bunch of other work. I went back to the seller, confronted him (he grudgingly fessed up) and offered to split the cost of the other repairs with him. He refused, and his words were "I'd rather sell the car to someone who won't be so diligent." I like to believe folks are honest, but this incident left me a bit more cynical.

2 brief points: 1. i agree that you can't a expect much from carmax re: accidents--one should rely instead on a really careful inspection from someone knowledgeable in body work. i'm sure repairs like you describe would be uncovered in careful inspection. 2. you can sue the deer if you have good unininsured motorist's coverage! ask your attorney--i'm not kidding!