Slightly OT: New C-6 Vette Specs

I'm watching Autoline Detroit on Speedchannel and they confirmed that the new BASE C-6 Corvette will have 6.0 liters and 400HP! They also said the car is 4 inches shorter overall with the same size interior. Nothing about wheelbase but sounds like the overhangs will be tightened up. Z06 is expected to have 500HP and a possible "supervette" may have 600HP!!! I truly am a Porsche guy, but with these numbers if Chevy can actually nail down a good interior I will be checking one out!

I agree with you... with Porsche quality under question these days why not switch to a different brand for less $$$$

What exactly is wrong with Porsche quality? I just went from a 1996 993 to a 2004 996 and can't see anything wrong with the car.

perhaps the air cooled models were a lot tougher than these new water babies... coolant leaks. RMS.... maybe all 996 are destined to die from the same death.. sooner or later... my friends 2001 996 had a cracked cylinder wall @ 29,000 km... hmmmm

Oh, maybe the GT3 is just a different animal all together. I have no idea. But it appears to be quite well put together. On the other hand, I know quite a few people who own the plastic car which, apparently, falls apart quite often.

I also went from a 993 to a 2004 996 and I see it... Snapfix interior, flippy door handles, ripples in body panels, cheap plastic at base of windscreen, cheaper instrument dials... To tell the truth there really isn't that much wrong with the 996, but much of the ambience of quality has been lost. IMHO.

Ok... Ok... let's not make this a quality comparison. I'm more curious as to what you guys think about this upcoming car and how it affects your psyche about Porsche. Of course this is ASSUMING the new vette has a REAL interior...

*Ambiance* I like that.

Yes I agree with you... the older cars where built like bank vaults... perhaps Toyota or Acura is listening here and can step in to give us a reliable supercar!

i have had 8 different porsches, everything from a 944 turbo to my present tt. i like my tt, but i think that the interior of my 993 and 964 had a greater undefineable charm-the other truth is that things actually work on the 996, like the climate control, traction control, etc. i have also owned a vette, and on no day of the week does a vette's build quality approach that of the 996. but, the important point is, in my opinion, that if they build the c6 with 400hp and the z06 with 500hp, that you will get more performance per dollar in a legitimate sports car with a c6 than in a 996. at that point in time, especially if they put a nice interior in the car, i could certainly see why someone would entertain trading in their $85,000+ 996 for a $50,000 c6. what do you think, viken?

I don't know about the C6. But, the C5 Z06 is certainly a hell of a car for the money. There is no question about the fact that Chevy did a great job making that car a real sports car for once. However, unlike a Porsche, it DOES fall apart. For instance, its brakes are totally inadequate on the track and even if you are an aggressive street driver. They fade much too quickly compared to the all-time great P-car brakes. This is only one of the few weaknesses the C-car has. I guess you get what you pay for, in so many ways. As to the 996 compared to the previous versions, I am not sure anyone could say the 996 is built with any inferior materials or parts. Certainly, the manufacturing methods are more geared towards mass production but I cannot say there is anything, other than the gas cap, in or on my GT3 that's inferior to the previous 911's I've owned. The bottom line is the fact that the average driver may or may not need a Porsche. But, for someone who doesn't like modifying cars (like me), a car like the GT3 is much more suited for driving on the streets, to and from the track and at the track. Thankfully, some of us are able to afford Porsche cars but nothing can replace the special *feel* of a 911 which I have become accustomed to.

viken, obviously, all of us have made the decision, for one reason or another, to buy a p-car over a vette. but come on now, we gotta be fair. when you say that they fall apart, there are tons of older vettes driving around, alot less expensively then some older, maintainance intensive p-cars (ever own a 928-i did, costs lots to maintain). we all have decided to pay the extra money for the p-car, but, as the previous poster said, if they make a legitimate interior, i think that alot of non track people might buy the c6 rather than the 996.

The much loved PCCB are so much better at the track than those cruddy Z06 brakes, right y'all ? And Porsche, like Chevy in it's owner orientation video , actively encourages ( and warranties ) tracking the car , right y'all? The C6 Vette is 175 " long, Porsche 996 174.5 " long. The C6 wheelbase is 15 " longer than 996 at 107". Real curb weights are about same . BTW, the " blue devil " carbon fibered, aluminum framed 2700 lb " ZL1" C6 slated for '07 is reportedly powered by a twin turbo 625 hp (minimum )6.4L engine. They apparently will use the Enzo ( $675,000) and Carrera GT ( $400,000) as their performance target at a $100,000 msrp, but will be very limited production like the Ford GT, Enzo and C-GT . The " devil " comes from some insiders wanting the advertised hp at " 666 " hp. Of course the Viper people already have a 625 + hp motor in the works , as these two marques really see each other as the competition , irked also by the fawning press the Ford GT is getting.

So, in other words, we are agreeing to a certain extent. Yes, a lot of non-track people may buy a C5 or a C6, the latter is still a question mark as to what it is and how good it is. As to the older vettes, I see just as many older 911's or more as older vettes on the roads. Many of these cars are very inexpensive to maintain and service. I do not know anything about the 928's and I'm not sure anyone here is trying to compare those with anything.

Blah, blah, blah... Until such time, if and when such a beast materializes and proves to be superior to its more expensive competition, we can only sit tight and hope. Couldn't we? When are you guys going to stop drooling over garbage you read in magazines? By 2007, the rest of the world would have invented something or another Chevy would say "how come we didn't think of that?" Don't get me wrong. I am not a fanatic of any car brand. At least not at this time of my life. However, I buy the car that excites me the most. If Chevy can do that, and at any cost, they just "might" have access to my bank account.

Guys, A lot of the comments against the vette are a little hypocritical. Vette's may not be the best build quality but the build quality and interior materials of the 996 is definately not good for a 100K car. Especially when you realize that it is shared with the 40K boxster. Chevy may not have the greatest build quality but for 40 -50K brand new and with a big **cking engine thats not too bad. Im sure the next C6 will have much better build quality. I don't know if you all have been in an american car showroom lately, but they've definetly kicked it up a notch. The new XLR and SRX Caddy's are just as good as any japanese car in terms of build quality. I'll definetly be giving the new C6 a serious look. Maybe I'll save my money from trading up from a 996 to a 997, use it to buy the Vette and use the money I save to fix my future 996 problems. Bob

viken-just a question-assuming that the accesories all worked like that of a 996, would you rather the interior of your gt3 looked like a 964 or a 996. i know that i would perfer the 964.

Here we go again. Another "shares parts with a $40k Boxster" comment. How about the vette sharing parts with a $15k Cavallier? No, you don't think so? Anyway, as I said before, you get what you pay for. The Z06 is THE performance variant of all the vettes sold today. Just as the GT3 is in contrast to the 996 lineup. The two cars are like night and day. You should drive them both to know what I am talking about. If you think the Z06 is superior to the GT3, by all means, go buy one. But, don't come here and try to persuade that some others should also consider buying a different car. Like I said before, by the time Chevy can figure out how to make a car which can compete with a P-car at half the cost, the rest of the world would have raised the bar exponentially. It has been the case for several decades in the past and it will continue to be so.

What are you talking about? Yes, I do prefer the looks and feel of the older 911's interior but, I am having such a blast driving the GT3, that I can easily get past that obsession. Oh, and by the way, the Corvette, as I know it, has an awful interior. Once again, I haven't seen or driven a C6, but a C5 is nothing to compare with a Porsche of any kind. Yes, I would even take a Boxster over a C5, anytime.

I totally agree. I was on the track with 3 Corvettes (2 regulars & 1 Z06) a while back. After every 3 laps the Vettes had to go off the track to cool down. I just kept on driving all day no problems. Even my friend in his M3 had his temp. gauge go up after a 30 min. session, my 996 ran like a champ. In talking with the Vette guys, they said nothing that new racing brake fluid & different brake pads couldn't fix. I was thinking in the back of my mind, that is not what you should have to do with a "world class" sports car. You should be able to drive it from the street to the track, and back and not have to worry about fiddling around with it just to have a few fun laps around the track. I did drive in the Vettes and they are fun cars but for some reason seem bloated and the rattles were very evident.

this interior stuff cracks me up. first, the most horrid and cheap interior in a sports car from $40k up is owned by GM and their Vette. second, has anyone seen the interiors in the Ferrari CS and Enzo? pure crud, but i don't see that bothering anyone who bought the cars for what they are capable of (even if grossly overpriced relative to the cars that run right with them).

I think Viken has "re-focused" me with his comments. My original thought was that a Vette could be a nice track car with plenty of horsepower and less worrying about crashing it. However I am now reminded that you would probably have to add some serious brakes and maybe upgrade the suspension? Although the suspension arguement could be made for the regular C2 (closest comparison?) as well. I think the Vette's situation can best be described as "The people who want one can't afford it, and the people who can afford it don't want one" It still has a certain appeal to me though. It's a shame that many people can't get past the interior and especially the image of owning/driving a vette. I know I probably couldn't, especially living in N.Y..... VIKEN you also make a good point about their being other alternatives in a few years that would easily trump the Vette i.e. NSX etc. However, most of those will be $80K plus and that's where the Vette really gets attractive.

Ben makes a good point. I always laugh when people complain when modern interiors are too "plasticky". All interiors are made of plastic!!! Now I agree there are different grades of plastic and various colors. The foreign makes seem to have the "finesse" to make it work. As far as the Enzo goes the interior isn't anything fancy but somehow it works in a racecar sort of way. It's a hard thing to explain but some interiors just feel right (964/993?) and others just don't (996?). I have never owned a 964 or 993 but having been in them I can definately see what people like about them. I would much rather have a plain interior that reeks of functionality and is bulletproof. But then again, how much showroom floor appeal would that have to all the posers out there who make up much of the buying public these days? It's almost impossible to believe that there are still people out there that think the speedometer is a reflection of how fast the car can go?

Even as the C6 and 996/997 approach each other in size, weight, build quality and measured performance at it's equivalent perf models , and ignoring $$ and image /service differences , the two cars are unique automotive branded icons forever " boxed in " to it's owners expectations and thus must remain true in it's layout to it's heritage driving feel. The 911 will have the rear engined smooth manic sewing machine on steroids feel and the Corvette will always be a front engined rumbling big V8 GT. Each buyer ultimately determines which pushes the right emotional button .

New Vette!!!!!

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In the Flesh: Spy shooter captures Corvette C6 in production trim

Do we think the photo represents the true ride height of the car, or is it compressed on the springs thru the tie-down process? It looks like far less excess space in the wheel arches. Having driven a Z06 and my ttX50 on the same track, on the same day, its really a hard call and is based on emotion much more than logic. The Z06 is much, much better than you'd think it should be, based on the price differential. But Viken is right about things like the switchgear which is generic Chevrolet econocar and feels like it. It's those small details that ultimately overwhelm you. I've recently sold my 964C4, and I don't see the 996 tt leather interior as inferior in any way. The quality on my car has been up to expectation. AS

w/ all these HP offered by other companies, what will porsche do? 300HP doesnt mean a thing these days. what #s will we see in 997?

My guess would be that at least the rear is compressed.

That " caught filming a commercial in downtown SF " car has several options incl high polished wheels and, by the drilled rotors, the Z51 handling package . Perhaps that's why it's lower. This time around, BTW, the Z51 package is more than diff shocks and roll bars so it will be more than $350 option. It includes ,per the C6 order guide in GM speak : " Z51 :Performance Handling Package, performance-oriented package for the Gymkhana/Autocross enthusiast, ...power steering, engine oil and transmission coolers, stiffer springs and stabilizer bars, specific shock absorbers, larger brakes with cross-drilled rotors, specific tires and performance gearing, Z51-specific, 6-speed manual transmission or performance axle ratio with automatic transmission "

What's the difference? None of the P-cars today are any slower than their competition. I hope car manufacturers start designing cars with less weight and not so much more power. Personally, I never understood the horsepower wars amongst manufacturers. In so many ways, they are answering to people like you, who don't even need half that horsepower. After all, power is nothing without control.

is that a viper front end smashed onto a vette? cause that's what it looks like to me!!!

Viken...another good point. It's a shame that Americans are so caught up in horsepower. But the marketing types pounce all over it (as they should) to sell cars. I don't know how/if you can change the American way of thinking. I think if you could get more people to auto-x or track their cars would be a start. Easier said than done! Does anybody have any thoughts on what drives the European way of thinking in terms of handling importance? I would imagine fuel cost keeps the HP and engine size in check but what about the passion for handling? If anything I would think being so crowded would dampen much of their driving passion, but it seems to be the exact opposite. Maybe someone who has been to Europe can elaborate? Are their more opportunities to track cars over there? I know the popularity of karting (I just started myself... ) is huge over there. Maybe those childhood experiences carry over into adulthood and street drivers focus on handling to rekindle those feelings?

It is not just Americans. The Germans are even worse. I mean, who needs these supercharged V8's or V12's of more than 500 HP in those luxo barges? OK, so you can go 200+ mph on the Autobahn in them but come on. It's just plain asinine to keep building bigger and higher horsepower cars. It seems the British (Noble, Lotus, Caterham, etc.) and the Italians (Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc.) are the only ones who understand the importance of power to weight ratios and agility. I just hope Porsche doesn't fall into the wrong category anytime soon. Already, some of their cars are somewhat overweight.

Viken, I'm with you. I can't figure out how this massive HP war brewing among all these luxury /sport brands hasn't yet garnered the attention of the " East Coast taxi -riding anti-car " types around the DC beltway or NY media intelligentsia or some self-promoting politician looking for an issue to bring him/her national attention, esp in light of our oil importation needs and how it affects politics globally. I guess it's because we have an oil man and all his oil buddies running the country , so vehicles like thenew 500 hp Viper motored Dodge SRT-10 truck with 7/10 mpg EPA mileage doesn't raise eyebrows. What PCNA needs to bring over is a stripper 996 CS : like a GT3 but with the cheaper X51 345hp version of the 9X6 engine. Maybe steal a couple ideas from the Z06 like thinner, lighter glass and titanium exhaust, simple radio, sunroof delete, no rear seats, lowered aggressive ( but cheaper non-adjustable ) suspension, tranny cooler , 200 lbs lighter and price it at the same price of the currently hard to sell base 996 coupe , which is requiring massive discounts to move off dealer lots. I predict this product would sell quite well at $65K with a CS badge on the back as a way to run out the coupe bodies before the 997 . Only thing owner need do after buying is bolt in a roll cage /GT3 seats as needed. But knowing PCNA's "genius" marketing team ( who probably drive Lexuses to work ) , they will probably instead come out with a porkey,expensive luxury laden C2S to close out.

Of course, but that's what everyone wants. Don't you see how many people are buying GT3's and then complaining about the lack of comfort and this and that? Heck, there was even a thread last week where someone was wondering why a sunroof wasn't offered. The bottom line is, they are selling more cars because they are making what people want. If you can change what people want, you can have your CS.

MKW...I think the same way. It seems that the purists will always "carry" Porsche through the good times and the bad. Why not offer a "stripper" that has all the basic necessities that would be too pricey to add after purchase. From there you have a good foundation for someone to build it the way they want. I understand that selling luxo options to poseur's is profitable and that you must follow market conditions. However, Porsche should always offer the purist something (in some cases "less") in an expensive format. The GT3 is a nice start but still too pricey. Even if they just offered a body, engine, transmission, brakes and suspension and let you add OEM performance stuff that would be a start. The wanna-be's come and go, but the purists remain true!

Lance , my " CS" proposal is to replace it for the base C2 coupe. It ain't selling because it doesn't have enough "bling" that the poseurs want in the more expensive part of the range , so might as well turn a product sow's ear into a silk purse for the long timers, who as you say, carry the company through the down times. If I ran PCNA, here would be the 911 range from low end to high end : CS, C2 cab, C4S, C4 cab ,GT3, C4S cab, Turbo, Turbo Cab , GT2 . The C2 Cab has become their bread and butter 911 for years , sales wise, so I don't see why they bother with a base coupe - but what do I know.

Most Porsche buyers I know aren't performance drivers. What fraction do you think track their cars regularly? I'm guessing no more than 10%. Viken is spot on as usual-Porsche is matiching the product to demand. Speaking for myself, my X50 isn't too heavy for 98% of it's use- namely commuting on northwest Indiana highways. I've driven my Elise 190R to work once, and probaqbly not again. You might want to try it on I94 surrounded by 18 wheelers and SUV's. However, the Elise is better when my wife thinks we need milk on Sunday morning- that's 7 miles on a nice curvy country road- US12. Back to the thread- the new Vette styling is better, and if the interior matches, it could be my 3rd Corvette (we now have our 4th and 5th Porsches), tho my wife wouldn't drive it 1 block- she views too many Vette drivers as "lounge lizzards"- granted an elitist, politically incorrect, often wrong but occasionally true descriptor. But, it could be me. AS

MKW- since it's all about profit margin today, how much margin could Porsche get out of a stripper, and why bring a 996 down closer to the price point of a Boxster S? The stripper performance model is a nice idea if you think that Porsche should stick to a performance mission. But even institutions like Catholic healthcare organizations have modified their mission philosophy to "No margin-no mission". You're likely to be left to searching for a damaged X51 to buy cheap, and strip it yourself since I'll bet that Porsche will not do it. AS

Lounge Lizard!!!...I love it!!! The points made above about a stripper appealing to a narrow audience and being too low in price point are well taken. However my view is that a poseur would never order it because A) It doesn't have bling label i.e. GT-3 and the price point would actually be higher since most people attracted to this setup would probably add in things like Turbo brakes, upgraded clutch, performance exhaust. My vision would be Porsche pulling aside some "shells" and basically give you credit for not ordering any luxury items and then let you add back in performance only options. You might end up at a $80K C2 but it would still be $20K less than a GT-3 and in some cases have as much or more appeal to the purist. Of course the caveat is that the numbers have to make sense. I realize that sometimes in a production environment it actually costs MORE to do this but compromises might be made to make the concept work and still have it work for Porsche on the dollar side.

Sales of the base C2 coupe are so bad that many dealers won't even inventory them unless Porsche forces them to, to get a better allocation of a better selling model. I just feel their marketing folks haven't done proper specing for the US mkt to " move " the base coupe - it doesn't have to be a " CS" , that's just my idea , but not the main point I 'm making.

I wish Porsche would either A) increase horsepower as the current 320 hp engine/Carrera is getting quickly passed by other cars B) lighten the current car by 200 lbs. so that performance from the 320 hp improves dramatically. I agree that hp figures are nothing, it's more hp/lbs. ratio. That being said with more/increasing safety standards I highly doubt that weight will go down anytime soon. I have read that teh reason why MBZ/BMW hp is going up is to compensate for the increased weight of all the new safety equipment. I'm not a fan of Porsche's current plans with our cars. We have 320/415 hp "standard" vehicles, but have the option of 345/450 hp "power packages." Currently in straightline speed the Carreras have trouble keeping up with the standard Corvettes, and the 911TT will have trouble distancing itself from a Z06. I think they should stop trying to squeeze us for more money and have teh 345 hp as standard equipment, and 450 hp on the turbos. Porsches used to be head & shoulders above teh competition in overall performance, I don't think that holds true now. On the next models either increase the hp or drop the weight.

MKW and LanceK-you both speak about the "poseurs" and seem to regard yourselves as "purists". i am just wondering-are you both race car drivers, who use their porsches not as transportation, but only for competition. is that why you purchased your cars? or are you like 95% of the porsche buying public, people who purchased their cars just because they like the way they look. it kind of gives me a laugh to listen to people who feel that only they are talented enough to extract the appropriate amount out of their car, or only they bought the car for the right reason. i guess all others are "poseurs". well guess what guys-if it wasn't for the "poseurs", there would be no pcna. and that's the truth.

Doc there are many types of poseurs and are called that for a variety of reasons. I don't think one has to be a "race car driver" to avoid being called one. We're all guilty of using generalizations and stereotypes here to get our point across but I think we all understand the differences. I don't want to get into a "definition of a poseur" thread. The point being is that some people buy a Porsche because they have the money and it's the got the image. I tend to think these are the people who let the car sit in the garage for a month or more (not due to business travel etc.). The point of conversation is that some people here think if Porsche offered, shall I dare say GT-3 light, that it would be a nice option for the purist. Did I "pose" my argument... ?

lance-i think that you are missing my point. 1)don't you think that it is a little condescending to think that you are one of the few people who understand the correct reason to buy a porsche 2)that people like you would be unable to purchase a porsche of any kind, if the people who you refer to as poseurs did not purchase the majority of the cars. as i say, porsche, as you know it, would be out of business.

LanceK, I have driven many Vettes over the years, and there is just something that a Porsche has that a Vette does not. I am a true believer that the build quality is not there in the Vette. It is still a Chevy after all, not that I am knock chevy (I love my chevy truck)! My first test when I look at a new car is the door test. Go to a Chevy dealer, sit in a Vette and close the door. I would almost promise that the Porsche will have a more solid secure door slam then the Vette. If nothing else, the Porsche will have a higher resale value in 20 years! Both are wonderful cars, but 10 out of 10 I pick the Porsche! Just my opinion though. Best wishes - Jay Gratton

Whoaa wait a minute. Doc I think you need to take this thread a little more lightly. You may have read my comments as condescending but by no means were they meant to be. There is no "correct" reason to buy a Porsche.... I was not slamming poseurs nor was I claiming to be a purist. I was merely stating that people who buy Porsche for their mechanical quality tend to buy them over and over and people who buy them for the label (it's all good) will tend to buy the latest and greatest (for whatever reason). It's this reasoning that makes me "suggest" that having a stripper Porsche with performance only options would not only be nice but would also make the car a little more reasonable when compared to the Corvette.....the original topic of this thread. Anybody out there run a Corvette on the track past or present and have any thoughts?

my 996's door--and every other 996 i've driven--makes a thud like a mid-priced domestic. i miss the "klack" of the 993 and older 911s...says vault door to me. i also prefer the interior 'finish' of the 993 and earlier cars.

absolutely fanman! porsche profit margins are better than ever, so good that they can sink hundreds of millions of development costs into an SUV to sell to soccer moms. the X50/51 packages should be standard on these cars, not optional! give us back our fast cars porsche. the fact that a subaru wrx sti can keep up with my C4 up to almost 100 MPH is ridiculous. yeah yeah, i know i'll butcher that car on the track, and my handling is a bit better, but for three times the price, it better be! i could modify the subaru with 20K in options and keep up with the porsche on the track, and still have 35K in my pocket. that's really not what i wanted when i spent $85K on my car. there used to be a much bigger difference between a 911 and "regular" cars...

from what I"m hearing the new 997 will have AT LEAST 350 hp (if not more) based on a 3.8 litre motor... the optional X51 should bring it up to 390 HP... as for the vaultlike doors... well I think thats gone for good...

rob-i agree with you. i have had a 1999 c2, a 2001 c4, and now a 2003 tt. i much prefer the quality of the 993 and 964 that i had over the 996. the older cars made me feel like they had bank vault like quality. the 996, when it came out, reminded me of a pontiac interior. that's just my opinion.