Has anyone done an LS3 swap on here?

Hi I recently purchased a 996 with a blown motor looking to swap it out for a LS3 looking on some advice on mounts what company and other things that might be helpful with this engine swap thx

I think Renegade is a kit, I saw a 996 narrow body with aero kit with one , looked pretty good , sounded great.

ls1tech.com decent group minimal drama, they like the swaps, and there are a few on there,, expect to be up to15K ish into one unless your a real do it yourself-er to the core. Renegade Hybrids and Kennedy are purveyors of many of the needed/handy parts. A Turbo style transmission with cooler highly recommended. Don't fixate on the LS3, there are several options that are more economical IE a L92 is about 5500 in my area(With < 100K on it) ,, its a Escalade all Aluminum 6.2 and your into the 400 HP zone STOCK. minor tweaks and 500+ and less of the Corvette Legend tax. Shamelessly plagiarized from the web: What is the difference between l92 and ls3? LS3 Heads and the L92 heads are Identical.... only difference between these 2 engines was the cam and pistons other than that they use the same heads. LS3 intake valves have a hollow stem, therefore lighter. LS3 heads are designed with hollow valve stems for higher revving. Compression Ratio 10.5:1 Horsepower Rating 403 hp <---- This decides how fast you hit something Torque Rating 417 ft./lbs. <---- This decide how far you go through it

There's a few in the Facebook group.

I have an Ls2 in mine. I would personally stay away form Renegade. If I had to do it again, I would buy everything from Andrew (Stuttgart Muscle). Things like engine mount plate/mounts, gas pedal adapter and harness for the C7 pedal, clutch flywheel and trans adapter (although that I would get from Kennedy Engineering personally). Everything else is off the shelf, wire harness, headers, starter and manifold all fit. Exhaust you're left with a custom fab job no matter what. Hope that helps.

I am gathering parts for mine. I picked up a renagade engine mount as a good price and i like the sage 2 spec clutch and adaptor by stuggard muscle. im probably gonna build a 8k rpm destroked ls3. I toyed around with the new supercharged lt4 but i think its too much. I have already got upgraded radiators and will probably do the center rad just in case. All the info for the swap is out there u just need to dig.

Any idea where Stuttgart Muscle is located?

Hagerstown , maryland

Don�t think a GM motor won�t need oil mods if you plan to track it. Otherwise, the LS swap is awesome, albeit not easy or cheap to do.

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Thx I will look into Stuttgart muscle looks much cheaper

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This is my 5k project I got from a guy that got it from the auction

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Had some time today and pulled the engine out

already looks like a great start. They only thing I would ask about the Stuttgart Muscle adapter is if it clears the sway bar, otherwise the KEP adapter is the same price. The Kennedy unit comes with a clutch kit (I'm currently running it now). Handles 500 hp and is very street friendly. I've owned BMW Ls swapped cars, driven swapped Rx-7's and a v8 boxster. The 996 is by far my favorite.

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U can starve an ls of oil too. The higher end ls cars r dry sumped motors and im planning using the factory system on mine.

I'd love a "simple" LS1 swap into mine. Having a '99 makes it considerably easier from what I understand. Enjoying my 3.4 for the time being. Will look into it down the road for sure.

Great idea for an IMS "blown" motor...even without the real high output motors, it would be a good solution...I would not mind a GM V8 in my 996...nice growl.. I "did" a Jag Chev some years back...350/350 4 bolt main with a 700r4 trans...very nice ( a lot easier with the JAG)

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I beg to differ. Everything has a finite life. I'm thinking my 115K mile motor is still worth around $4k? on a good day? LS1 from a GTO i can pick up locally for around $1k. Local guy does these swaps (Chavis Performance Engineering) and he quoted me well under $10K for the swap. So lets say $10K - $4K... For around $6K out of pocket I get a motor that I can rebuild for considerably less than a 3.4 rebuild that'll have a couple more ponies. I'm a purist at heart but my brain says that sometimes you have to cut the cord before its too late.

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Tyler does good work and its really not a hard swap at all. I would even say its one of the easier swaps due to all the space thats available in the engine bay. No steering rack to clear, no crossmember, no firewall hacking...just drop it in and bolt it down. Depending on how integrated you wanna get with electronics, it can make the swap even easier (or harder). compared to the e36, I would say the 996 is the easier swap.

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My car has cruise control but i'm not sure if I need it. I certainly dont "need" A/C but it is nice to have... I've been passively looking for a motor but I think it would be wise to step up my efforts

Hmmm, May start looking for a nice 996 Cabrio with the PORSCHE IMS PROBLEM to do this....

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I emailed Andrew from Stuttgart muscle and he gave me $100 off the whole package I forgot to ask if the transaxle plate clears the sway par and cross member so I just emailed him to ask i also spoke to Texas performance concepts and they said they don�t carry any kits for the 996 ls3 swap only for the older ones So today I found a ls3 crate motor fresh built with comp cams diamond racing forged pistons arp bolts psi stand-alone with 411 ecu tunes by champion motors and tons more done to it for a great price I�ll be going tmro to pick it up I�ll post some picks tmro I�ll place my order with Stuttgart muscle tmro anyone know if the renegade plate clears or that too needs to be modified?

Never mind Andrew just answered me so their new design does not touch the sway bar I guess I�ll be placing my order now then Can�t wait!!

The one thing I'd be tempted to do is build a ls,, at 4.8L with really good spinning parts, so it could still scream like my 3.6.. Put kinsler electronic injection with stacks and use a old school 911 air filter setup.. something that redlines in the high 8's,,, Basically a 305 sprint car engine..

Kinda of the point of a de-stroked ls3. Its a 4.8 crank and rods with custom but available pistons. Most say u r safe to 8k on hydrauic lifters. Im still specing out parts and buying slowly. I bought my car as a roller but got the motor running for a few bucks so i have been enjoying it. I dont really have any history on the car other then it knowing the ims and a few things were done about 30k ago but with 200k on the clock im sure i will eventually blow it up.

Please start a YouTube channel and call this series - Apollo II 911

I don't know about you guys but, I'd need A/C and functioning factory gauges to consider a LS swap. Mike

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Its been done many times, quite easily actually. custom lines and minor tweaks, thats it.

I'm probably not doing a swap, but I was in Vegas in April and stopped in to see Renegade. They seem first rate. They spent a full hour showing me around and talking Porsche. I'm curious, why would you stay away from them?

I would love to see a post from someone who has successfully done it on a street car and registered it in a state that requires emissions inspection.

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Anybody ever ran across a good how to make your Porshe piggyback a different engine ECU guide? I suspect that a 996 is so CAN intensive for the gauges that your stuck if it has to look factory, But one thing I read somewhere is the AC control on the 996 is actually fairly primitive. Its not really integrated with the engine ECU stuff other than the wire to engage the compressor. the dash module actually runs the thing for the most part, then there is the fan control module but that is likely just a PWM for the fan speed driven by the dash unit,, the guy also said ther is a manual control that we didn't see here in the us that just replaces the climate control in the dash...

Im sure it will take some digging and figuring out. Im not worried about the ac. I think the only thing u have to tie in is the wire to kick on the fans and the ls computer can do that. The rest of it doesnt use the porsche pcm, from what i have read. Guages will be a little challenging. I have piggybacked jeep ecu's with products from Dakota Digital. Im sure if i leave the porche ecu in the car and feed it the correct signal from the ls motor then the factory guages will work. The mk1 dash is easier to work with.

On the topic of the emissions... In my state (OR) they finally did it,, drew a line.. 1996 (OBD1 and newer) the engine must be the same year or newer and be an engine that came in the chassis from the same manufacturer. So you could bump v6 to v8 but it would have to be same builder. Oh and more fun,, they don't accept out of state referee/waiver etc when licensing here.. Thank goodness my jeep is a obd1 1994,, its gonna like the 5.3....

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Their "kit" is nothing more than 3rd party parts that they assembled and labeled as their own. Kennedy Engineering makes their adapter plate which is the bulk of the swap. They do make their own engine plate, which works, but is designed poorly (in my opinion). Even the bolts they send to secure the engine plate are cheap and rust within 2 months. They recommend the use of a electric water pump which is barely adequate for a low horsepower street application, not at all adequate for anything else. The water port adapter they sell is bulky, ugly and feels like an afterthought. Their intake elbow is restrictive and hideous. They provide little to no instruction on their own products. When I called to chat with them about accessories, they were clueless (which really struck me as odd). Specifically, I called to ask if I can use corvette accessories (they are the closest spaced accessories from the engine block). The response I got was "absolutely" -which wasn't even remotely true. Their power steering "kit" is just a re-purposed prius unit with a custom bracket (pretty but super expensive and unnecessary). They dont even send you the lines without you sending yours to them first, and its 1300 (which is insane, you can get an MR2 pump and custom lines for under $400). no wiring harness, no coolant line adapters, no gauge integration...just basic hardware to get you stared. All this for a cool 4K+$$ All this aside, I've seen more than a handful Renegade built cars that people bought for 30K plus only to realize they purchased a rolling project. From wiring issues, to cooling issues all the way to mechanical nightmares. Again, nothing about this swap is rocket science (regardless of which direction you go), which is why I found their lack of understanding simple things all the more confusing. My recommendation for anyone looking to do the swap, bypass Renegade all together and purchase the items you need directly from the people that make them. Save yourself money and frustration. I'll leave it with a final note: When I asked renegade about accessories and was told corvette would work, I was then offered these accessories for $1300 which they claimed were at cost. A quick trip to Rock Auto quickly showed these same accessories at about $450 (crank pulley, alternator and water pump). Due to the design of their engine mount (which pushes everything out preventing the use of closely spaced corvette accessories), non of these would work. You would think that a shop that specializes in these engine swaps would know what parts work with their own kit.

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You would think that the STATE, would have more important decisions to make laws about than a few hundred (?) engine swaps...what a waste of time and money...

Luckily delawarenis pretty good about motor swaps. As long as it passes all the emisions standards for the year of the car and original motor u r good. Basically u can put an old motor in a new car if its clean. U dont even need the engin computer vin to match the car.

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I think this is the problem where I live in NC...I don�t know any way around it, but will double check if it is really an issue.

It is an issue in nc. I have a good friend with an ls-1 in a miata. There r guys that will burn your vin into the ecm when they do a tune as a work around. Some inspection guys still have a problem with that so this last time he just went to a non emissions county and got it inspected.

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Yes you would.. I do to.. idiots..

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That's good to know. Having an OEM appearance and function is something important to me. Regarding the A/C controls...that's reassuring. Mike

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That's disappointing and a bit surprising for OR. A good friend of mine has a 1995 Mazda RX7 with an LS3 swap and it is legal in CA and fully CARB certified. He used a LS3 E-rod for his build. Mike

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Personally, I not surprised about much of anything I hear coming out of Oregon these days...

Also another LS 996 swap going on here. I have the 996, which is a 1999 model year and a Tiptronic. I sourced a '99 G96 with limited slip to swap in at the same time and bought all the factory components to swap to a manual. I'll run a custom line instead of using the P car hydraulic lines ($$$ and require removing entire interior). I bought my adapter from Eric at A&E Machining ( http://www.kitcarchassis.com/ ) and includes a starter and SPEC clutch (stage 2) for around the same at Stuttgart Muscle. I had already placed my order with Eric, who is extremely nice and knowledgeable, before finding Stuttgart Muscle. I'd likely order it all from SM but no regrets so far besides a longer than usual lead time from Eric. Again, nice guy and typical got back to me same day if he didn't pickup. I called Renegade and their tech department wasn't there and the sales guy couldn't answer any questions pertaining to the swap, accessories, or if using a Tiptronic was advised (it's not). I ended up buying a disassembled LS1 for a great price so I have built that up with a Tick Performance SNS cam, 243 heads, 92mm FAST intake, 92mm DBC TB, and some other odds and ends. I'm using the Holley Terminator X kit with LS3 injectors to get it going. Should be a great little combo, hopefully the cam isn't too much. I have just about everything I need to start, just need to finish my LS swapped Wrangler first which has been a never ending project. I might post a build thread here once I've started though.

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Its the California influence, the wall needed to be between OR and Cali.

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I was gonna link your build thread on Pirate but i was lazy. Welcome to Rennlist. U seem to have a good handle on the performance ls stuff, i may bounce some stuff off u when i start building mine.

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HAHA! No worries, there isn�t much in that build thread anyway. Mostly talking exhaust which I�ll do in the thread here or LS1tech. 180 degree headers aren�t that bad to make with a good plan and we have CNC mandrel benders now. Hoping to have each piece CNC bent to my specs and I just weld it up. Should sound pretty good and I�ll be using some smaller mufflers to get the sound I want. Feel free to hit me up with any LS questions! I have gained some knowledge but am no expert. It�s just me and my buddies building budget power plants. Hoping my little warmed up 5.3 in the Jeep makes 400 at the crank and this 5.7 LS1 will be 500 peak.

Although I am not considering doing this (unless things change dramatically with my car), this thread got me curious. Between the vendors supporting it and affordable/available crate motors, I can see why someone would do this. This one sounds like an easy plug and play: https://www.jegs.com/p/Chevrolet-Per...95009/10002/-1

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That�s a good choice for powers emissions compliance. 6600 rpm max, wonder what it would take to get another 1000 rpm out of it reliably?

It is a good option but its tought to get above 7k rpm without a lot of work to the heads. I did the math on building my motor and i think it will be around 13-14k including harness, computer and dry sump. All new parts. Getting to 8k prm cost money. Im shooting for a flat hp and tq curve passed 7.5k rpm and 500hp. It should be reliable as they r making these high rpm destroked motors over 800hp and they r staying together.

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Yeah, but, you can actually build and drive an LS3 swapped car LEGALLY in CA when using an E-Rod and getting it CARB certified at a referee station. According to the previous post regarding OR's new laws, that doesn't sound possible in certain situations. That's really disappointing. Mike

Anyone who has done this...aside form installing the engine and getting that running...what happens with all the electronics..instruments..a/c heat...etc. What is the exhaust system .. headers? Mufflers? I've a friend who is really good at this kind of stuff, he did a Chev Jag XJ6 for me a few years ago,...he's not working right now...he'd probably be up for a project.

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Depends on the year. Early cars were not CANBUS and you can piggyback the ECU by mounting the P car sensors in the LS motor and by using a 58x crank signal for the tach. They also have signal conversion boxes to go from 24x to whatever wave signal the tach needs, which is 4 pulses IIRC. Someone may want to double check that number, it's been a couple months since I searched that part. I have an early car so I am piggybacking. I am using a standalone LS engine management system from Holley, the Terminator X. The other options for CANBUS cars include a k6 emerald ECU that marries the P car computer to the LS computer. You can also use an AEM complete replacement computer that takes the place of both the P car and LS computers in one unit. This might require you to swap the gauges but I'm not sure. The emerald ECU uses the factory P car gauges for these CANBUS systems IIRC. I believe AEM says this is 996T and 997T only but I believe they had something for the n/a carrera crowd too. k6 emerald http://www.emeraldm3d.com/ AEM https://www.aemelectronics.com/produ...e-996-turbo-mt Holley Terminator X https://www.holley.com/products/fuel.../terminator_x/ Stuttgart Muscle has a ton of tech on the hardware side but I don't really agree with the hardware he uses for the cooling system. My system will get -16 or -20 AN fittings throughout. https://stuttgartmuscle.com/

Just realized I only answered part of your questions... A/C is simple for the early cars, it's a one wire hookup IIRC, use the GM mini pump and conversion fittings or lines. Not hard for a AC shop to do. Power steering, lots of options. Use none if you don't feel you need it. Some people use MR2 setups and some people use the GT3 setup. Heat is controlled the same way, just run the coolant lines through the new LS water pump and adapt the hoses. Exhaust isn't that bad, plenty of options there too. Some people just run block hugger heads, others use factory manifolds. I designed a set of 180 degree headers for a more exotic sound. There are quite a few guys that have done crossover setups. Mufflers are easy too, get smaller ones that fit in the new space or make the originals work. Cooling fans are usually controlled by the CANBUS computer on later cars and either computer desired on the earlier cars. Just need accurate temp readings and you'll be fine with either one. There are people with working cruise control, AC, steering, etc. with build threads on LS1tech. One thing I would mention is that there is no need to cut an access hole above the the new LS like many do. You'll have to cut some of the lower support out under the "trunk" but that's it.

You don't happen to have a link to using the Emerald to run the porsche side of the car do you? My google fu seems to be weak on finding info on it.

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All of that info is on the FB group "Swapped Porsche" but I believe it's done through a private party also. There's quite a few guys that do these swaps full time.

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In your opinion what would be the benefit of the Kennedy adapter vs Stuttgart?

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I dont believe there is a benefit going one way or the other other than lead time and price (if you can find one cheaper and quicker). Otherwise, the Kennedy flywheel is huge and strange looking while the SM looks a bit more traditional (but I havent used it so no experience with it). Andrew, the guy that started SM, is a smart guy and very active with these swaps. I would trust him just as much as Kennedy. Initially, I didnt know if his Adapter cleared the sway bar, but now that we confirmed it does, I wouldn't hesitate to use it.

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I spoke with Andrew, and I like the goods.

I bought a Porsche cause I wanted a Porsche. Ill do whatever it takes to keep mine pure The options out there are impressive... but, they're just not for me.

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Ahh, Ship of Theseus argument ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus ). I have to agree that replacement of the heart or the car could certainly impact its soul. I like them both, both don�t blame you one bit. If it only had a Mezger engine...

I don't think OP or anyone else asked about others opinions. I think we all know most P car owners are purists and don't like these swaps. This thread is dedicated to those swaps and questions about them so let's keep it that way. I think there's been plenty of arguing on that subject in a more chit chat related forum so no need to start it up here. Coyote swapped Cayman, same car featured on Smoking Tire. Just another fun swap for the M96 P car variants to alleviate the dreaded IMS or oiling failures and high price tags of replacements that are doomed anyway. You Tube

Absolutely correct.

I have kicked around the idea of a coyote motor too but i wasnt sure if it would fit in the back of the 911. To be honest i never even searched to see if it had or could be done.

I must admit, when I bought my roller an LS swap was my first plan. Then I was contacted by a member with a good 50K mile m96 AT motor and don't regret it one bit. The broken motor will eventually go to FSI!

Moderators, how about a forum session dedicated to LSx powered Porsches. I am looking for information on this and it is out there, but mixed up with other manufacturer. I think this forum, since it is Porsche everything, should have a session dedicated to this topic.

And the first post should be the post your pictures here type.

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I really really enjoyed my coyote 5.0, the '14 Mustang GT...not so much, lol. The coyote 5.0 is a fantastic engine! The heads are huge which give the engine an enormous foot print. I can't imagine it fitting but, like some say, anything is possible. Solid suggestion! Mike

Or, buy this... https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/De...gt3-cup-engine

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^^^THAT won't be cheap!!!

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If I recall the asking price was $22K.

^^ it's 22,500 euro ($25k) - about the same as a FSI re-build... Uh oh, did I make a mistake...? Nah... !!! I love my 3.8

It would be nice to have a "Swapped Porsche" forum just for this topic. Maybe it would give some relief to the purists that can't resist posting in this thread with their non-LS-related experience in a thread dedicated to LS3 swaps. Clean LS3 swapped 996 with widebody 997 conversion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-Q4TpJ63wU&list=PLepmaMnP0wX8ZRJOyqpeHg3cSRiXRbhVQ&index=14&t=0s

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Any idea if they still in Hagerstown or what the shop name is. I'm not finding anything. And trying to do a swap