Some GT3 Questions

Hey guys I have given up on that Champion Motorsports car, and for some reason I have fallen in love with the new GT3(hummm wonder why)!! Anyway, I did forget to mention in my last post that I am only 17 (yes I have an M5 at 17 don't flame I am not your typical spoiled kid)so I have to convince my dad to buy the GT3. The reason I wanted that Champion car in the first place was because, the deal was I could not spend anymore then the M5 sells for (69-70K). I have now began trying to convince him to buy a GT3 and we would share it. SO ANYWAY here are my questions: 1.How easy is it to find an open allocation? 2.Are dealers trying to get premiums for the GT3's 3.What kinda time frame are we looking at for build and delivery. 4.What types of options are available for the GT3 (all the same of reg. C2 or C4)besides the PCCB, and thick steering wheel. Again I am a true enthusiast so do not make fun for being a "kid". I am a huge fan of porsches, and I am a very serious enthusiast. I work for an Exotic car dealership that my dad is a partner in, so I am around cars all day and night lol. Anyway here are some phat pictures of a 996 X50 Turbo we just took in this week with Fikse wheels, Techart Suspension, and SSK. Thank you for your help with the GT3 questions. Evan (Pics Below can't figure out how to post pics on here)

Here is a link to the pics sry not sure how to post on here: <a href="http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/test/forum.php?postid=3426878&page=1" target="_blank">http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/test/forum.php?postid=3426878&page=1</a> The last on is just of the 15"Brembos(GT2 Brakes) didn't work for somereason. Evan

Evan, To answer your questions: 1) Not too hard if you look around but you're not likely to find an allocation available this year. 2) You shouldn't expect to pay a premium. 3) As mentioned for #1, you're not likely to find a build available this year. I know of one small dealer who's 2nd allocation isn't until July '04 (it's available btw, PM me for info) 4) The GT3 has a limited subset of the regular C2 options but nothing I'd miss as an "Enthusiast". Here's a link to the order guide: <a href="http://www.suncoastporsche.com/guides/04a/2004_GT3_US.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.suncoastporsche.com/guides/04a/2004_GT3_US.pdf</a> Steve

Wow didn't think it was that long of a wait for the GT3. You think even Champion("The Largest Dlr." lol)won't have any allocations. I thought there would be a couple openings for maybe winter this year, but I guess I am dreaming <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" /> . Thank you for the order guide, its now time to go through and start highlighting to how god daymn expensive I am gunna make this already out of my range car . Thanks again, Evan

My friend and I have a November allocation right behind my October build. We would be willing to let it go for a nominal price, since we went through a lot of trouble to get it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Hamann7: <strong>My friend and I have a November allocation right behind my October build. We would be willing to let it go for a nominal price, since we went through a lot of trouble to get it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Why? How much did it cost to get the allocation?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Hamann7: <strong>My friend and I have a November allocation right behind my October build. We would be willing to let it go for a nominal price, since we went through a lot of trouble to get it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Is this spot still changable??(colors and options) What is the nominal price([email removed] or please give me yours so we can discuss). Thankyou, Evan K.

Christer, at this point, with so little open in 03, a spot is now worth some $, otherwise 04 delivery is it. time is money.. it's now clear some US dealers are getting 20 over window on summer 03 gt3's and hold multiple deposits at that amount.

Which dealers are getting $20k over sticker, I'd like to know so I can avoid them in the future?

Does anyone have specs on the GT3 like the horsepower, torque, 0-60 times and all that?

380HP 285LBS Torque 0-60 4.3 190MPH Top Speed (all porsche specs) Car and driver ran a 4 flat 0-60 tho and a 12.3 1/4 mile so... Evan

hey bubba kendash, how yall doin?

Take your time. Get a Porsche dealer directory and start calling. I am sure there are unsold cars. You may have to settle on options and color though. I found a changeable open spot as recent as six weeks ago after the car I had reserved from December was improperly ordered by the dealer and was too late to change. I let the next person / ENTHUSIAST take that car rather than trying to ***** it for over sticker. The GT3 is worth waiting for. I have been waiting like most of us who have ordered a car since the announcement on Dec. 17. My car is a July build. I would also like to know the dealers who are charging $20k over list. I have not heard of anyone paying over list. Bad Business! Best of luck in your search, Best, Don A.

Carlsen in Palo Alto for one, they sold their first one at $20K over sticker, at least according to one of their salesmen. They will supposedly only put your name on the list if you agree to pay $10K over. Their mantra is to sell cars at market value, not MSRP. I wonder how Porsche likes that. By the way I was just offered a September build today, moving me up from February, and I took it.

Ruznak TO as well.

That is too bad that Porsche dealers would charge over sticker. I do not think that is in the Spirit of the Porsche company or PCA members. If I did not have a car ordered and could not find an open allocation I would wait for when the new cars start to come in. I think many have ordered these cars with the intention of selling them for a profit. (stick to your day job). I bet many of those buyers do not take delivery if their car is not sold ahead of time. Keep track of the scalpers! Think of those who paid a premium for the GT2. Now there seems to be availible cars on the market below sticker. With the close performance of the new GT3 I bet the GT2 resale falls a bit. $80 grand + is a big spread for tenths of a second in performance and a few MPH on the top end. Just my opinions. P.S. Colm, did you pay over sticker? Best, Don A.

Don, gt3 will actually build demand for gt2. once you get the taste of gt3, you will want to try El Grande gt2. and some people don't like to hustle and place orders years in advance to avoid paying over window on hot cars. time is money. i sold my first TT 6/11/00 for 50 over to some panting rich child. hate me for it? and my 360 spider in Azzura California for 60 over. most early orderers of gt3 paid window. and as demand builds when the car lands, prices will rise for 3-6 months, maybe longer then fade. like TT's did, SL55's, etc. altho' one could argue that fewer are willing to pay over i this economy/stock market than say in 2000. as for dealers charging over... they can't do it if customers won't pay it.

In Canada dealers can't charge over MSRP.

when i was looking for a gt3, i didn't hear of these premiums from dealers, and personally i don't think a gt3 should demand $ more than a turbo.

Watt, I don't hate anyone for making money, heck we are in America! Rich child or not a little planning and patience goes a long way. The rich child is out 50 g's plus heavy depreciation just for the satisfaction and bragging rights? of having the car a couple of months ahead of time.Me personally, I would not sell my allocation/car as I bought it to enjoy. I have a business to make $$$. I think the GT2 is a terrific car. The GT3 in my opinion will be more popular as it continues the RS tradition. It IS the modern 73 RS. Just ask the men who engineered it. The GT2 while great a performer is not in that liniage. Porsche does not race the GT2. I bought my car to add to my 2 73 RS's and my 93 RSA. Three generations of the RS. The difference in performance between the GT2 and GT3 in my opinion is not that great to justify the price difference. I would not bank on the GT2 becoming more popular with the introduction of the GT3. I think the opposite will happen. Hope you are not speculating on that one! Best, Don A.

no, gt2's are for driving. don if you hang on early 911S registry you wll see a recent thread from me on gt2/gt3 as honourable descendants of RS... it's worth reading. we'll compare notes 5 years from now on relative gt2/gt3 values... remember there's only 250 gt2's roughly. they are both great cars. but gt3 is way too heavy to compare w/ your RS's... and i keep almost buying an RS or building a clone, but my clone design keeps ending up as a gt2 i can buy from the factory. but i love RS and there are some RGruppe cars i would love to own!!!! and the best car i ever owned, and the only car i never should've sold was my 70S rebuilt 2.4 longthrow. what a rig... that's what the gt2 reminds me of, and i hope the higher rev.g, linearally-responding gt3 even more... i would love to see photos of all 3 of your cars, if you are willing: [email removed].

You are right only time will tell. But again I am not in this for the potential of making money although it is nice when it happens. If you can get a copy of the April EVO magazine there is a terrific article on the GT3 with insights from the engineers who worked on the car. They make it clear the GT3 is a clear decendant of the 73 RS. Perhaps after you read it you will be swayed. Heavy is relative. The GT3 does shed weight from other Porsche production cars although unlike the earlier ones. It does way less than the Turbo or C4 variants though. Not sure if it weighs less than the standard 911. One would think so. The engineers went through alot of trouble to shed internal weight inside the engine, hence the high redline. There are more special components that go into the GT3 engine compared to the GT2 from what I have read. Again both great cars however the GT3, in my opinion, is more of a special model. I will be adding photos shortly on my web page. You may have already seen pics of my Viper Grun Kremer RS posted. Best, Don A.

HEY don, i'm only referring to relative values not profit potential... the cars have little of that. we had a run in on earlyS about your car if you are rennman over there -- remember you didnt want me to vet it independently... and the boys jumped all over you. i hope we can let bygones go since we love the same cars!!! your car does looks nice the green, maybe i should buy it. but show me the other 2, what does the other RS look like? ps, the new gt3 is only a few pounds lighter than gt2... and remember i ain't pickin' between them. the RGruppe guys pointed out that gt2 follows the 76 930 lineage and gt3 the RS... what did you order for gt3? and when is your build?

i personally have little respect for anyone who would sell their position, or reserve a position, with the express purpose of bilking extra money out of an enthusiast. these people are not enthusiasts, they are parasites posing as enthusiasts. just look at autoweek-every week the same people are trying to take advantage of buyers of desireable automobiles. i personally think that this practice sucks.

Doc Jackson you couldn't have said it better. Watt, Right, I did not think you were serious about buying my RS as you did not pick up the phone to discuss it with me. Anyway it really did not matter to me either way and it does not matter to me if I sell that car or not. If you want to buy the RS "Show me the money!" It is the only DOCUMENTED Kremer 73 RS known and is a very special original RS. The good part about buying this or any 73 RS for that matter: It is availible today, Not stuck in customs, You will not have to wait on a list for an open allocation, It will not go down in value only UP, you will not have to pay over the list price (not yet anyway), You will be the only one on the block with one and oh yeah, It is considered the best 911 ever! As for the comparisons between the GT2 to the early 930 and the GT3 to the 73 RS, that really says it all. All great cars but tough to compare the original 930 to the 73 RS. I would love a Turbo Carrera though in one of those funky 70's metalic colors. In the end it is fascinating how all super Porsches that followed the 73 RS are compared to it, even Porsche's latest Supercar is compared to a car designed and built 30 years ago. I ordered my GT3 "Old school" true to the RS spirit - STRIPPED! Speed yellow, Red belts, Thick wheel, Yellow painted seatbacks and floor mats! Thats it, just like the poster car. It is a July build. How did you order yours? Best Always, Don A.

i don't remember the "stripped" option. white xenon pccb mats

Evan, I wish you well in acquiring your GT3. Just please do not pay over sticker, and if your dad is savvy, maybe he could drive the price below sticker. Good luck! - Julie

evan, i agree. unless you don't mind throwing your/your father's money away, paying above sticker for almost any car is an unwise move. learn from history-look at all the cars that initially sold for above sticker (996 tt, audi tt, new thunderbird, corvette, miatta, gt2, etc., etc) and now see that all those cars sell for deep discounts, most soon after their release. how would you like to be one of those brilliant buyers who paid $15,000 over msrp for a 2002 ford thunderbird, now to see them going for $10,000 under msrp. learn from history, it inexorably repeats itself.

Thank you I have found a car for sticker, and will most likly be buying that one. It is also at port. Evan

good luck with it, and drive it safely.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by docjackson1: <strong>good luck with it, and drive it safely.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Thank you very much, I will (if I get it, still working on my dad <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> , and sellin my car) Evan