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YOUR RESEARCHIs Muffler delete too loud?
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Replace speakers
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The previous owner replaced all the speakers with some wierd component speaker system that I never heard of.
Leading evidence: 'Replace speakers' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'same as a non pse muffler' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Replace speakers' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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I forgot to write the brand name of the speakers down but when I replaced the stock head unit with an Alpine, it really came alive.
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Unfortunately the PSE has gotten ridiculously expensive, what used to be $1,800 is now $4,000-$5,000 (I actually got mine used 4 years ago for about $800).
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Suspected cause
the PSE muffler is probably the same as a non PSE muffler.
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Suggestion
Running competition headers and flow masterD's on a 71 SS camaro not to be confused with the carrera
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Suggestion
As my exhaust has developed a really bad rattle and I can't see any brackets that are loose or shrouds that are touching, I assume it is the inside of the muffler that is rusting out (I hope its the muffler and not the cat) I am looking for a cheap solution, and I am pretty much set on doing this to fix the problem.
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Suggestion
I have to remember how that works but I re-used mine on 3 complete differant set ups, they are a PITA to remove IIRC, something like a sprung clamp around a sleeve.
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Suggestion
so while yours are out (testing the new ones) mail your stock ones to Darin and have the mod done, then you can swap to your new Fisters (made from YOUR stock cans)
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Unfortunately the PSE has gotten ridiculously expensive, what used to be $1,800 is now $4,000-$5,000 (I actually got mine used 4 years ago for about $800).
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Suggestion
Now, although people mention that it is "too loud" for daily use, I have to take issue with that; There are a few motorcycles AND performance vehicles on my block that start up EVERY day and they seem much louder than this modification would produce, so I think my medium contribution to noise pollution is not the worst offender.
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I'm tossin around the idea of removing the mufflers and going with the delete pipes Fabspeed sells. Is it crazy loud and or alot of drone. Also, how tuff is it to remove the mufflers? Rear bumper off?
Thanks!
easy swap... jack up the back high enough to get them out... couple nuts, and clamps... done!
by-pass pipes sound awsome - for 15 minutes... the drone is unbearable and you most likely will put the stock back on and look for something else
I bought them AFTER listening to countless bytes, they really don't give a good feel of sound.
Maybe post a list of what you want. Maybe cost, effort, volume, weight, ect and get some ideas from other members.
I can highly reccomend the FisterD mufflers, but there are not lighter, but about the cheapest/best sound with LOTS of happy people running them (old and young)
I appreciate the info! Thanks! I did a search for the Fisters, but no luck. Where might I find them? Exhaust is such a PIA to figure out what you want. You really need to hear it in person to decide. I listened to the muffler delete sound byte on the Fabspeed site, and they sounded kinda nice. My GTO has an SLP loudmouth catback system, which is basicly mufferless as well. Not that I can compare the sound, but I am familiar with loud and some drone. I kinda want loud for the Porsche but also not too much when just cruising.
I see, what seems to be, basicly the same muffler bypass pipes from Fabspeed, on ebay for $155 and free shipping.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Porsche-911-996-...tem19ba659319e
Anyone know anything about these? Heck, for $155 I just may have to give these a shot
Search FisterD exhaust, you should find lots of info. Great sound, minimal expense, but they don't save any weight. I love mine and only wish i had them 3 years ago when I bought my 911.
those are exactly the ones I bought - same seller, great quality, and seriously you can re-sell them for the same as you paid (maybe loose $20) so why not try it.. it does sound Awsome!!
Im gonna do it! its reversable, so what the heck! I still dont come up with much about the Fisters though. I did a search here and on google. Where can they be purchased and does anyone have a sound byte?
COOL !
totaly reversible - and if you dont want them they still have some value...
FISTER LINK
so while yours are out (testing the new ones) mail your stock ones to Darin and have the mod done, then you can swap to your new Fisters (made from YOUR stock cans)
I did, but I'm on my phone at work, so sound is.....well pretty bad. Gotta wait till I get home tonight and here it on my computer. Thanks for the link!
Re-use IF you don't distort them too much taking them off. I have to remember how that works but I re-used mine on 3 complete differant set ups, they are a PITA to remove IIRC, something like a sprung clamp around a sleeve. Just don't put your eye out prying with a screwdriver
Man I am getting old, I can't remember!
Either I had to take apart that thing - OR - I took it apart by mistake?
So try using that clamp w/ messing with it FIRST, I think the pipe and bypass butt up to each other and that just slides over them and clamps both
I've been thinking about doing this but it seems like it would be too loud, so here's what might be a dumb question:
Is there any reason I couldn't install just one of the bypass pipes and leave the other muffler in place to cut the sound down by half?
As I said in the past, just remove your mufflers and drive around. It will be fairly close to what the bypass pipes sounds, just a little louder.
There is 3 nuts per side on the cans and 2 nuts on the pipe coming from the cat pipes per side. 15 minutes the cans should be on the ground. You can even just simply back the car on low profile ramps. This will provide enough clearance.
I cant see that as being good to do.. the mufflers create back pressure and having that only one one side might be bad for the motor... my opinion only though...
I'll throw in my $.02 worth. I love my PSE, which is the equivalent to the Fister D (actually the Fister D is a take off of the PSE, but without the valves), but I am always glad I have the switch to go to the quiet mode. My car is a cab so you really hear the exhaust more than in a coupe. The sound is great, but if you get on it or rev it over 4,000 or so it really gets loud. Everyone will know you are getting on it. Sometimes it is nice to quiet it down. I would say that I go about 50/50 between the two modes.
Unfortunately the PSE has gotten ridiculously expensive, what used to be $1,800 is now $4,000-$5,000 (I actually got mine used 4 years ago for about $800). It would seem that someone must make a cutout valve that could be used with the Fister D set up so you could have both modes.
Maybe something like this:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Race-Ready/815/EC250D/10002/-1
Found this with a quick google search. I am sure there is something less expensive out there.
Truth, although if you REALLY want loud, take out the cats and the mufflers. That's how I have my race car set up, and it's basically unbearable. Without earplugs, I get a headache in about 20 minutes of driving on the track.
I just switched my mufflers yesterday. And I did start the car without the mufflers. Keep in mind I had the cats on, only the mufflers where out. The sounds is really not that bad. I only start it up and rev it a bit but to give you an idea, it sounds like those mustang or truck with the flowmaster exhaust pipes may be a bit louder. In other word, without the mufflers you can drive around if you don't push it. It you start to push on the gas pedal, you can bet you will be standing out from the crowd in a big way.
Personally I think it would be cool once every blue moon but for daily use, it is too much. All depends how much of an attention grabber you are. If you only drive few miles around town you are fine I think. If you plan any road trip, I'd say you will be getting a headache after the 2nd hour.
problem with this is that you need a flange to sandwich it in between... would def work though. I agree that the quiet mode is very handy.... esp if you have high flow exhausts.
this system looks really neat. I think it would be really cool to have that setup on a muffler bypass.
I think the sport exhaust is not loud enough to justify its price, but now if you can have a 'race exhaust' button
now that is interesting !
On the picture the system, just look a little bulky. But if someone, may be fisterD could create a pipe that goes where the original muffler is at and then locate this device there. We could have one really cool 'race exhaust' option !
I've thought about removing the mufflers and taking a short drive to hear what the car would sound like with bypass pipes, however I was not crazy about the idea of simply allowing all of the hot exhaust gasses to be released into the engine bay.
Is it really OK to do this?
For giggles, when I swapped in my Fabspeed exhaust in place of the stock mufflers, I fired the car up without mufflers. It's loud. I blipped the throttle just to hear it and wow does it sound good. Needless to say, there were a few of the techs around that immediately stopped working to see what car was making the noise.
Way too loud for a street driven car IMHO but, it sounded pretty cool.
On the track, they work great with my stock cats and FVD headers. On the street, no way. Obnoxiously loud and likely worth a ticket for noise violation where I live.
And if theres low end torque loss, Surely its better than lugging around 50kg of OEM muffler?.
Any thoughts?.
50kg is only a guess but those thing aint light.
so if you dyno the car you might see some drops, but to be honest it would take an amazing driver to really get every ounce of power to the ground with or without the loss....if you like the sound, in a few days you will be use to the very slight power change. My guess is that it is more "seat of the pants" feel
lastly, you WILL be able to dump the clutch at a much lower rpm as you can hear the motor SO much better... no reving to avoid a stall.... until your ears fail from drone
+1... muffler bypass is louder. vs cat bypass Muffler delete is effin loud... good to have for a few weeks tops.... get it out of your system. Then, get the fister d or PSE, if you need it louder... put some 200 cel sports cats. If you want it louder even.... then I would suggest having your hearing checked.
So, I just pulled my mufflers off to see for myself what is would sound like... And if that isnt music to any "car guys" ears, I don't know what is... I never thought a 6 cyl could sound so angry. I love it. I may have to get the bypass pipes for looks. I have to be careful because it certainly draws some attention driving down the street.
I have the ebay muffler bypass on. And it sounds great. I dont think it is crazy loud. I had a mustang cobra before the porsche and it was alot louder then the porsche. If you like a mean sounding car then do it. You will love it. I do
Inside and out are two diffeent sounds. Running competition headers and flow masterD's on a 71 SS camaro not to be confused with the carrera
I thought I was in a stock car with its circle track engine banging away just driving down the road. Outside things were plain jane till standing on it except for the cam rocking the car while at lights. Its a fact of being right on the tones coming out of the exhaust line that makes it louder. You get the sound and the reflection off the road. So if you can stand the sound don't worry too much about what others hear because I don't think it's too drastic. Watch out for cops inline with where the tips point though. Deleting you should have more room for sound proofing mats near the engine.
The one big thing I would watch out for with loud exhaust is being in a valley making good time. Any police will be getting too excited hearing you coming and refuse to pull anyone over till they get a bead on you.
I pulled into a gas station the other night and a bunch of good looking import cars were hanging out. And everyone came running to my porsche. First thing they said was, what the hell is in that, that is the meanest porsche I ever heard & sounds awesome. When I left you should of seen the smiles on there face. Dam what respect I got from them with that bypass sound.
Well I DID buy the bypass pipes on eBay and have had them for a while now in my garage. So crazy hot here in Vegas, I'm waiting for the temps to drop. Gonna do them soon tho!!!
I'm a fan of quiet cars, and the ability to hear the rest of mechanical harmony instead of just exhaust or intake noises. Even my stripped/caged track cars have had full factory exhausts with cats -with two exceptions, but I was in highschool and college back then... That, and turbos tend to have a muffling effect and the flames look cool!
As soon as I get out of the military next year, HOPEFULLY I can land a job in that region (tri-state). I sort of miss that area. After living in the Midwest for a while it makes you appreciate the East Coast.
during a drive home of about 5-6 hours.... i realize that the exhaust sound is very useful to tell what the engine is doing.... it was instant feedback for rev-matching, heel toe... etc. When I shut my exhaust off, (I have PSE on/off), I had to look at my tach to figure out what the engine was doing since it was so muted.... Yes, you do get used to that loud exhaust and love the feed back you get.... but if you can have both world.... bypass/muffler, that would be sweet.
Thanks for the invite, I'll let you know if I get out that way anytime soon. I think that is about a 3 hour round trip drive for me. I was out that way a few years back doing the Harley factory tour.
BTW, are your eBay pipes manufactured by Velocity Motoring? I was looking at a pair of these on eBay the other night. If so, what is the quality of the tips. That is what I am most concerned about, anyone can make the pipes but the quality of the tips are what is really important.
So, to revisit this old topic:
1. I've listened to all the sound bytes
2. Muffler delete IS loud, and I'm sure that on a long trip, it would drone and become painful to listen to.
3. Aside from the noise, muffler delete gains these benefits:
a. Less weight
b. Less backpressure
c. WOW/coolness factor from everybody.
d. I can't scroll back through the pages of this thread, but someone mentioned how the exhaust helps tell what is going on with the car, and I totally agree, and in fact, I wish it was louder so that I could tell how successful my heel/toe technique is during fast cornering. Sometimes I come out of a heel/toe shift and think....OK...was that a good one???
Now, although people mention that it is "too loud" for daily use, I have to take issue with that; There are a few motorcycles AND performance vehicles on my block that start up EVERY day and they seem much louder than this modification would produce, so I think my medium contribution to noise pollution is not the worst offender.
Further, after years of listening to loud music, I am pretty used to loud noises, so I don't think I would be too annoyed by this modification.
As my exhaust has developed a really bad rattle and I can't see any brackets that are loose or shrouds that are touching, I assume it is the inside of the muffler that is rusting out (I hope its the muffler and not the cat) I am looking for a cheap solution, and I am pretty much set on doing this to fix the problem.
Just watch out as you live in Cali. After awhile depending on your luck, you might not find it worth it.
Another alternative is to gut out the insides of your mufflers which would yield the weight savings and provide a sound just slightly louder than the PSE modded mufflers while maintaining a factory look for any inspections.
Thanks for the advice, extra scrutiny is always a concern in california. Seems everything I do throughout my normal day ends up against some damned law or ordinance...
I looked at the pictures again, and then what I have...and it seems I already have some sort of aftermarket exhaust. The factory mufflers have that square grid pattern on the outside, whereas my mufflers are smooth and oval. I can tell they used to be shiny stainless. That was probably 10 years ago.
the PSE muffler is probably the same as a non PSE muffler. The $2000 PSE option added a muffler bypass pipe and valve arrangement, with the switch on the dash.
2003 Carrera 4S Speed Yellow / 1955 356 Continental 1500 Rust Red
Eddie,
I have an afterhours exhaust on my car and I would recommend this rather than complete muffler delete
http://www.afterhoursautomotive.com/...emufflers.html
This setup is already fairly loud. To give an idea, talking with the passenger at cruising speed (70mph in 6spd) is still possible but will require to speak up.
On the other end, the raw flat 6 sound is so good that I tend to drive with the window down :-)
My exhaust is fairly loud already. There's NO talking at normal volume when cruising above 50 or so, even with the top up and windows up. The previous owner replaced all the speakers with some wierd component speaker system that I never heard of. They must have put the original stereo back in when they sold it. I forgot to write the brand name of the speakers down but when I replaced the stock head unit with an Alpine, it really came alive. So now I just turn up the stereo on long trips. I guess I figured all 996s sound this way. Now...i just wish I didn't have that damned rattle...
Ah I guess I should've stated "fister D' style instead. Back in the day peeps often referred to the fister style mod as the PSE mod before fister was a household name.
