Sanity check on a quote for IMSB/Clutch/RMS

Need to have my IMSB done but the common wisdom seems to be do the clutch (mine currently seems fine at 40k miles) and RMS while in there for IMSB. I already did some searches I find a lot of old threads here and elsewhere the problem is that a lot of it is older info� The closest and most well known independent just quoted me $6,668 (not including tax) which includes the LN Retrofit/Pro IMSB or whatever it�s called now. New clutch/pressure plate/slave cylinder and assorted bits, RMS and sundry other items like alignment afterwords. From reading old threads this seems to be often considered on the very high end/go away we don�t want your business price. But I don�t really know what 2025 prices are like. When I ballpark the parts on Pelican it looks like maybe $2,500. Just because I wanna get the car squared away I had them give me a quote for the water pump as well. I was planning on doing it myself some afternoon and already have the kit from LN ($400) in my garage. And the price this shop quoted me for that was $2,137. Now having read through a few how to guides on doing the water pump this kinda looking more like they are at the very high end. But maybe I�m missing something? Also while I was at it I got a quote for the AOS and that was $1,687. Also seemed a bit on the high side given the little bit of research I have done. So am I off base in thinking these seem on the high side? If anyone has a suggestion for an independent anywhere on the gulf coast between New Orleans and Pensacola I�m definitely looking to get some additional quotes at this point. Thanks!

What is their hourly rate? Most shop will only use genuine parts so that makes it higher right there. Looking at FCP cost of parts for example release bearing $205 vs $70, Slave cylinder $300 vs $12, that's Genuine vs oem.

What is the labor rate? How many hours do they estimate? If the labor rate is $250/hr or more, then it isn't out of line. Labor rates here in upstate NY for indy shops are up 50% from 2021. I am paying $155/hr.. Local Porsche dealer is $300/hour. The reason people replace the clutch at the same time is because of all the labor to remove the transmission. If you are going to replace the AOS, go with the UAOS instead with a track drain. Then you never need to worry about hydro-lock ever again. .

Quotes source post: 20108542

Didn�t specifically ask hourly rate, will get that tomorrow. I did look at the delta between the various parts on price and took that into account.

Quotes source post: 20108547

The rise in rates from a few years ago is why I figured I should just start a new thread. Although I don�t seem to need a clutch the �while you are in there� factor was what I had planned for. No reason not to do the clutch� and I was planning to ask them about the slave cylinder but that was something they recommended and had already built in.

Depends on the labor rate. I would think $5,000 for a IMSB, new clutch package is probably fair. The $2,000+ for a water pump is way out of line.

This is what I paid in April for similar work. I am in the Lake Norman area in NC. With a few plugs, seals, and taxes, it came to around $3500. And this is the estimate I got for my waterpump replacement, cooling system flush & refill.

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^^^THIS. Its a one and done part that will help you sleep like a baby. Yeah and get yourself a Durametric. It will come in handy.

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Thanks� before I got the quote I was thinking it could be up to maybe $5k. Anything below that price point and I would have jumped on it. At this point I�m also toying with the idea of just doing it myself if I can�t find a shop with a more reasonable rate

I'm kind of in a similar boat here. While my C4S has the IMS Retrofit, I'm wanting to get it changed out for the IMS Solution and do the clutch/RMS while in there. There was an approved installer about an hour from me, but since I last looked 6-7 months back they're no longer on the list for that item. I'm reading and watching on the transmission removal process to see what that entails for the 996. If I go that route, I'll get a pair of Quickjacks to ease the entire process. An upside to having those is that reinstallation of the engine/transmission in my 964 will go much more smoothly than having the car only on jack stands like I did when I dropped the engine.

I have a four-post lift and a tall transmission lift. Both of these make the removal of the transmission really safe and quick to do (on more than this job). I would recommend you go that route. While doing it on jack-stand and a low transmission lift is possible, it is not enjoyable and beat your body up. Do it yourself, the savings will pay for the lift. Really, $6,xxx for that job is a rip. Coupled with the $2,xxx water pump job means they don't want your business. Well, then, don't give them your business.

Be sure to get a low temp (160) water pump if you are doing that. I got mine from FCP Euro for like $160 with gasket etc. I did it myself with a few friends. Make sure to get a gallon or 3 of antifreeze as well.

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I already have a QuickJack that I use with my air cooled 911, unfortunately a four poster isn�t possible with my current garage set up.

The water pump is just such an easy job, DIY, get the vacuum fill tool prior to doing it.

Quotes source posts: 20108530, 20108530, 20108530, 20108530

I bought a second 1999 996 and as a precaution I had the IMSB done. Car had 76k miles. I also bought a UAOS and had it installed while indy was doing the IMSB. He also called and said clutch might as well be replaced cause it was worn, and to resurface flywheel. Labor rate $185 - 8hrs to do IMSB, install clutch, resurface flywheel new seal - 2hrs to install UAOS - (I think he likely spent more on that because there was some confusing issues) Parts were all standard retail prices. LN dual row bearing. (my original bearing btw, was in PRISTINE condition... oh well)... So all in $1850 in labor and $1650 in parts. He is a single owner shop with one helper. They just pump out Porsche all day long so no games with over inflated labor quotes. Why are they doing an alignement after changing the IMSB? Water pump was the first thing I did on my first 996 when I got it. It was also my first actual wrenching job. I bought a QuickJack knowing it would cover the labor in one go. I followed FCP's videos and bought the parts from Silver Spring Porsche (great prices) and Pelican and FCP (back before FCP's prices went crazy). The job is actually really easy. I also bought a Air Lift tool to vacuum fill the coolant (as you're supposed to). The biggest pain point was underestimating the flow of coolant and making a mess in my garage (and omg dogs really are DRAWN to coolant, it's crazy, keep them locked up and far away (no he didn't drink any, but man he came running)).

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Oh, with a QJ and you already working on an air cooled-- the water pump is really simple. Get the OE pump from porsche with the plastic blades. Don't listen to FCP on that one (the say metallica blades). Might as well get the low temp thermo from LN too (I did). Buy Porsche coolant. Get lots of buckets. Watch all the videos on how to get ALL the old coolant out. Flush again with distilled water (I wish I had done this). Refiill and keep a record of how much you're putting back in. I didn't and then was second guessing myself if A) i had really drained all the old coolant or B) left an air pocket. It's been 2 years since I did the job, so all turned out ok, but it was hard as a first time job and second guessing the little things.

Quotes source post: 20109306

I agree- that quote is the classic sales technique when you really don't want to take on a client, "We really don't want to do this job, but hell if he pays $XXX then we'll do it"

Quotes source post: 20111046

Yeah I was a little unclear about that as well� I�m more than willing to admit that I�m not an expert in this stuff but it also didn�t seem to make any sense.

The first rule of Rennlist is never talk about what you paid or plan to pay for parts or services.

It really depends on where you are located and what the market rates are for this type of work. I live in Chicagoland, where everything seems like a ripoff. My brother lives in Western Illinois and pays 1/3rd of the cost for most items. I paid $2500 for a new water pump, thermostat, t-stat housing, coolant hose, 2 new idle rollers, belt, antifreeze, and coolant tank relief valve, road tested. $1400 in labor, $959 in parts, $82 in tax.

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Yikes� I kinda like doing stuff myself and for those kinda prices would definitely do the water pump myself. My idle rollers seem to be steel and I was also reading up on pressing out the bearings to do that replacement as well. Having watched a few videos and done a bit of reading on the IMS I�m coming around to the idea of tackling that myself.

Cigar Mike ....Just moved to the area and was curious who did the work ?

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Sonderwerks. They specialize in Porsche service, modifications, restoration and interiors. 20430 Chartown Dr., Cornelius. They will give you a 'tour' of the shop area if you stop by. They were recommended by another Porsche owner when a friend bought his 86' 911, and he recommended them to me. They were about $800 less than Porsche Hickory for the same work, and they are much closer.

There are a lot of air-cooled Porsches in that shop. Looks like a full resto shop.

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I really appreciate the info, it now has me pretty convinced the first shop I talked to was overcharging. Found another shop somewhat local to me but if that doesn�t work out and I decide not to do it myself a road trip up to NC might be in order. Visit some family and get the car sorted.

FYI, you cannot resurface a dual mass flywheel.

Quotes source post: 20115694

Well, it never crossed my mind to question him and look up, "resurfacing a 996 flywheel". And reading about it now, it seems resurfacing IS an option, just maybe not the best one depending on the circumstances/wear of it. I can't think of any reason why he would not just replace it if was badly needed. There was no charge to resurface it, nor did he charge any additional labor to replace the clutch. So should I assume the flywheel was in an okay state and just needed a little touch up, if that's a thing.

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Ask any shop that resurfaces a Dual mas Flywheel, how they clean out the cutting debris from the internal parts of DMF. After resurfacing a dual mass flywheel that can't be disassembled/reassembled for proper cleaning, with many moving internal parts, only a matter of time time till that cutting debris either binds things up or wears things out.

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Sigh...

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After thinking about it, doubt the tech put your DMF in the flywheel cutter machine after he looked it over. Especially if there was no charge for resurfacing the flywheel. More than likely a service writer/or someone that didn't know 996 DMF at all was the one who told you they would resurface yours as thats common practice in a good clutch job for regular type flywheels.

Given the effort required to replace the flywheel it is not worth it to try to resurface it and have a very short life. It is false economy.

Car is now with a different and well regarded independent that�s a bit more of a drive but I�m much more comfortable with. Current list is IMS, RMS, AOS, Clutch/slave cylinder, expansion tan, water pump. Anything else I should bring up while it�s there?

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Coils and spark plugs.

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Thanks� the previous owner had at least a couple coils replaced last year. Will go through the documentation and see what might be left in that regard.

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Fuel injectors- New (not rebuilt) OE Porsche

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If they weren't all replaced at the same time (odd) be aware that the original coils age out and crack. It allows water to seep in and then you get a misfire code. Known issue with these. I discovered mine were cracked after washing the car one day.

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I would agree with this as they are difficult to do in the car. You can use the Bosch and save $1500 This is a 2001? Have you dropped the sump and looked for chain pad debris? Have you measured the cam deviations?

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Good to know, will ask the guy doing the work on it. It�s an �02� the sump is gonna be dropped as part of the work being done.

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02 doesn't have the pads that are a wear item which cause large cam deviations.

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Yeah, that�s what I have gathered but I think it�s part of having it as a �registered� LN IMSB job. They pull it and have a look to make there aren�t any nasty surprises, at least that is what I understand.

Quotes source post: 20111243

???????

Add a drive belt to the list if you don't have a record of it being changed. Thermostat as well. How are your suspension components? At 41k my front struts where leaking, and strut bearings where completely shot.

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Good to see you found an Indy. The 996.2 is an incredible car. But i am biased since i have owned mine for 22+ years. 3 quick questions. 1. Is the car a long term keeper that you want to run without worry, or are you looking to do the basic stuff and no more because you want to flip it? 2. Have you performed an oil test yet and scoped the bores? 3. Are you just going to drive it on the street or are you looking to enjoy it on the track as well?

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Drive belt, low temp thermostat are being done with the water pump. Dunno about the suspension but will ask him to take a look at it.

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Plan is for it to be my good weather daily driver and take it on some road trips. My air cooled 911 is a lot of fun, I took it on a 1,500 mile road trip last year and it ran perfectly but there were some times where a more modern car would have been nice. I would have liked to buy a Turbo or GT3 but those are both more than I wanted to spend and I would have also maybe be more hesitant to really rack up the miles. A few years back I had a convertible Vette as my daily driver and put 120k on it over 10 years before things were getting a bit sketchy and I traded it in. My hope is to do something similar with this 996. Oil test is being done and I suspect the bores will be scoped as part of the LN IMS process. My car is a cabriolet and I don�t see any kind of track stuff in its future� that�s not to say I may not take it on a few laps if given the opportunity but nothing too crazy. Years back I flipped a convertible and it�s not something I want to do again.

If the car is a keeper, and you have limited service records, and you want a dependable car, i would consider doing the following broken down into 3 phases. PHASE 1: Do this before you spend big money on the car. If all checks out, then proceed to Phase 2. 1. Do an oil test to see what in your oil. Tells you quite a bit about the condition of your engine and potential faikure areas. Also establishes a baseline for the future tests. You can buy the SpeedDiagnostix oil test with a 3 day turnaround from LN Engineering. 2. Next, drop the sump to see whats in it. Cut open the oil filter to see whats in it. 3. Then scope the bores to see their condition. If all good, then proceed to Phase 2. If not, then you need to consider whether you want to sell it, drive it until the engine fails, swap it with a used engine, swap it with a factory short block, or get a professional rebuild. PHASE 2: Refresh key parts to mitigate engine failure, as well as piggy back the procedures with other while you are in their parts that will be cheaper to do when the engine is out. Bottom line is that the 3.6 is a very durable engine on both the street and track, and its easy to keep it running strong with upgraded parts. 1. Upgrade IMSB to either LN Retro or LN Solution depending on whether you want to replace the IMSB again (Retro) or have a permanent solution (Solution) to prevent IMSB failure. While you are in there, replace the RMS as well as review the condition of the clutch and flywheel. Now is the time to replace them if needed. 2. Replace the water pump to prevent cracked heads and intermix. Might as well replace the thermostadt with a LN Low Temp one. LN has a water pump kit that includes everything including pulley. 3. Upgrade the AOS to the UAOS w/ Track drain to prevent smoking, hydralock and a boatload of other issues from the factory AOS inability to process oil due to its poor design. This poor design means you will have a tough time running full levels of oil, parking on a hill, canyon carving without smoke pouring out of your exhaust. Do yourself a favor and dont waste your money on the factory AOS. 4. If you have no record of recentently replacing your ignition coils, spark plugs, fuel injectors, MAF, 02 sensors, now is the time. Failure of these parts causes lots and lots of cell codes. More importantly, if you want to keep your bores in good shape, you want your air/fuel system to be properly functioning, of which these parts are key. 5. Run excellent oil and change it 2x a year. Quickest way to bore scoring and bearing failure is bad oil that doesnt resist high temps and doesnt lubricate. 6. Other things to consider is replacing oil cooler, replacing trans fluid, going over the water cooling and power steering system to review the condition of the parts, replace the engine mounts and transmission mounts, replace engine air filter, replace oil sender, etc. PHASE 3: Is all of the non-engine/trans related items such as refreshing the suspension, exhaust, interior and exterior parts. Non of these are critical to keeping the engine running. These can all be done as you identify failing parts or just want to upgrade refresh or upgrade parts. COSTS For sure, if you are a DIY guy, you can save alot of money on service labor. 1. Expect to spend $10-12k on the engine refresh stuff I referenced above. Half that if you are a DIY guy and can find things on sale. 2. Also expect to spend $8-10k on fully refreshing your suspension amd another $8-10k on refreshing your exhaust. Half of that if you you do it yourself and can find things on sale. 3. Exterior and interior refresh/upgrades can be very expensive. Tough to ball park it since everyone has different tastes. No question, its not cheap, but there is nothing better than driving a well sorted 996 on the street and track. Good luck with your refresh over your ownership.

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This is a great post.

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Excellent comprehensive guide to ownership expectations.^ I see a sorted 996 as a cheat code to Porsche 911 ownership. Seems if you reinvest into the right 996, you're setting yourself up for years of great ownership experience. Unfortunately many interpret this as "great I'll buy this clapped 996 for $19k, fit some muffler bypass pipes and plasti-dip the wheels and I now have a $200k car" I see these cars today as an awesome alternative to buying a well preserved 997 (which I also love) for an additional $20-$30k, and then spend similar money attending to the refreshing that it will no doubt need. Maybe I'm in the minority seeing it this way from having too much experience with other very expensive European cars. I would much prefer to drive an early 996 911 than a new Miata for similar money.

Quotes source post: 20141906

Nothing is more expensive than a cheap German car. Well...., maybe British or Italian but whatever lol.

I can�t seem to get pics to upload but mechanic is going through the car now� he seems to be very positive about it thus far. The IMS was apparently just fine but the previous owner was apparently not too easy on the clutch. It wasn�t to the rivets but a lot of blue on the fly wheel and signs of riding the clutch. So it was gonna need a new clutch before long. Not sure what kinda clutch life people are getting with 911s� I got 120k miles on my Corvette before it needed a clutch so I don�t think I�m too hard on them.

Quotes source post: 20151992

What's with copying post #3 on this thread and calling it your own ^^^?

^^Thanks for pointing that out.

Quotes source post: 20152026

Looking the the posts from the account probably a scammer building post counts by copying other posts so it appears to be a contributing member. Some of the early posts seem to have links to some other site so maybe a spammer of some variety. Either way looks like a questionable account. Years ago I was a mod for quite a while on a well known board focusing on another brand of car, it becomes pretty easy to spot.

The car is back after a couple weeks with Howard Freeman / Eurosport in Meridian, MS and I�m very happy with things. He really was just an all around great guy who spent a lot of time explaining things to me including a bunch of mechanical questions about my 911SC in addition to the 996. Pretty sure all the things mentioned in this thread were addressed and a few more. It makes me feel a lot more confident about the car having someone who takes time to answer my litany of questions. I had found him on the LN list of installers, so that really worked out well. Also no bore scoring 🙂