GT3 Qs

Who here in the USA has placed an order for the new GT3? Has the dealer accepted your colour and/or options? What colour do you want? Are you interested in the Clubsport version? Will you survive the wait? <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" /> Do you intend to drive it at the track or Autox?

My dealer is taking deposits to get on the list to place an order but they are not actually placing orders with the factory. The order guide has not been released, so no one knows for sure what colors or options will be available. As for me, I'll wait and see what the interior color options are. If they do it like the GT2 and they all come in black, then I'll probably go with some flavor of red. However, my preference would be Artic or Polar Silver with the Space Gray interior, just like my 1999 C2. I'm not interested in tracking the car (well maybe an occasional DE) or the Club Sport option because I already have a race car for the track. The wait isn't that bad, assuming they deliver in May. I waited just as long for my 1999 C2. Of course, that doesn't count the two years I've had a deposit down at the dealer so I can be first on the list. Karl

Hehe.. my car is almost a GT3 and NO MORE WAIT FOR ME :-)

I am on the list at my dealership with a $1k refundable deposit and am looking forward for the call to pick options and colors. I plan on a low option Yellow/Black with the Clubsport package if available. If not, I will probably do an aftermarket upgrade like Ed did. I do plan on occasional DE's. The wait is hard but at least thankfully the car will be sold in the USA unlike last time.

Ahhh Yes. I just CNX'd a fine TT X50 for this car (inbound TT bk/bk w/c/brakes dealer ordered car). I am #8 in line for a GT 3. Good Luck. I will probably have a better chance winning the lottery. I would be thrilled for a chance at an 04. This is a large dealer. Certainly some people will drop out of line here. I hope there will be some nice options on the car. C/Spt etc.. Ralph 01 Z-3 Roadster 3.0 00 Suzuki Hayabusa AKA: Millenium Falcon

I had to visit a dealer that was a little out of my way to get on a list, as the dealer closest said they weren't taking orders - I expect that same dealer to be selling GT3s for $120,000 come summer.

I'm # 3 and a # 4, deposit since Aug. @ MSRP in writing! But, I too wonder when & if. No gouging please, as I'm probably going to take "hit" anyway on '02 C2 (leased). The dealer that I got the C2 from says I should expect to come in Feb, thank godness for the short month! Planning on the "Plain" GT3, as I also have neat 964 for the Track (unless) Can wait to really see what options we'll have to sweat out! Good Luck to all Buck

As of Today's date, it looks like like we'll have'em all to ourselves AND @ a Discount! Great Buck

That would be great, I'll take two; but maybe most aren't going to people that frequent Rennlist forums...

You lucky guys. buckdr1, can't wait to see your picture. Please post them when you get your car.

I saw what appeared to be a GT3 this evening, all dressed in black. At the very least it was a C2 with coilovers, rollcage, wide wheels and Aerokit II. The rear wing looks very good in-person.

Correct me if I am wrong, the GT3 uses the air-cooled block which is race proven and a lot more durable than regular 996 engine, which really cannot sustain track use/abuse. Even porsche admits that. That's why it will be a very special porsche.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Cloud964: <strong>Correct me if I am wrong, the GT3 uses the air-cooled block which is race proven and a lot more durable than regular 996 engine, which really cannot sustain track use/abuse. Even porsche admits that. That's why it will be a very special porsche.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">That's what I'm thinking. My motor was replace at 12 k. Now the new one leaks oil. I'm a track junkie, GT 3 seems to be my only hope.

996 models GT3, Turbo, GT2 and GT1 all use the same race proven 993 block design. I read someplace a GT3 engine costs around $35k.

Actually the block is a 964 part number but the heads are modern water-cooled. Karl

Karl - Is the block from a 993 a 964 part number too (same one)? Thanks!

Grant, I never had a 993 so I'm just going from the parts catalog, but the 993 is shown as having two different part numbers for the crankcase. Looks like most cars, including the turbo have a 964 part number but for some reason the Carrera RS got a 993 part number. I have no idea why, maybe someone else can enlighten us? Karl

<a href="http://www.suncoastporsche.com/guides/03a/usa/gt3.pdf" target="_blank">2004 GT3 Order Guide</a> Should answer many Qs...

Comments on the GT3 order guide: No Clubsport option: It looks like it will cost about $6k for an aftermarket upgrade: seats, roll cage, harnesses, fire extinguisher, battery cutoff. There may be some other parts also like the single-mass flywheel. No radio nor A/C delete: Oh well, I was hoping for this. Colors: A few 2003 metallic colors are now special order. No problem, I wasn't interested in any of them anyway. PCCB brakes: The Cup car brakes and Pagid pads are a proven option. I see no reason for PCCB, especially with the expected high maintenance costs. Xenons: One of the few or maybe the only performance option available. The thicker steering wheel might also qualify. Everything else: cosmetic only.

You're right, only xenons and thicker steering wheel are the 'must haves' - and these should be standard. Much of the other stuff I feel is better to buy later from Gert and avoid luxury on those items. First things to go are those seats!

Looking at the list of options, it seems as though they are selling a car with 3 wheels and the 4th one is an option. This practice has to stop. Lighted foot wells, an option? Come on give me a break.

What does the thicker steering wheel give you? Just curious.

<img src="http://www.flat-6.net/phpBB/uploads/8847671.jpg" alt=" - " />

MetalSolid, does your book give the weight?

MetalSolid, can you tell me where you got that book from?

Metal solid - Would you please scan that book for the list? Thanks lot! -Grant

1,450kg which includes 74kg for the driver. Sorry folks, not my book else I'd have more info for you. More from <a href="http://www.sportscartesting.com/news/porsche/id589/pg3202" target="_blank">SportsCarTesting.com</a>

Thanks MetalSolid. I suppose the book will be available next month at the show. So here is a table of model, weight, power and finally weight to power ratio: Model, DIN kg, KW, DIN Kg/KW Carrera Coupe, 1370, 235, 5.83 Carrera Cab, 1450, 235, 6.17 Carrera 4 Coupe, 1430, 235, 6.09 Carrera 4 Cab, 1510, 235, 6.43 Targa, 1440, 235, 6.13 Carrera 4S, 1470, 235, 6.26 GT3 (1st version), 1350, 265, 5.09 GT3 (2nd version), 1375, 280, 4.91 Turbo, 1540, 309, 4.98 GT2, 1420, 340, 4.18 The new GT3 just edges out the Turbo in weight to power. It may be the first NA 911 below 5.0. I am guessing that USA GT3's will probably be 15kg or more heavier due to the lack of radio and A/C delete options.

Don't forget, the US version gets two sports seats as opposed to one GT3 seat.

Yes, I forgot. So those kg gifts from PCNA and DOT will cost us $1500 or so plus labor to rectify. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

Should be able to sell the Sports Seats for $1500... Kinda sad that it's more cost effective to buy Porsche options after market, keeping the original pieces.

I would agree it's sad. A comment to everyone who is on the list and may be getting one of these cars. Don't sell any of the items out of your car even if you are replacing them (i.e. swapping out the sport seats for GT3 seats). If you read the order guide carefully you will see some interesting little hints. 1) Note on the front page it states 2004. This call will be tagged as a 04 MY. 2) Towards the back of the guide (where the thicker steering wheel is listed) you will notice a column that states "Required." the example of the thicker wheel notice it states ZO997. This will be offered on the 997 models, which will be out in late 04 in ROW. So, this car has now become even rare. Something that will help keep the value is keeping all of the original parts. Yesterday, I was speaking with the dealer (who is a very good friend of mine) and he has told me the following (which came from his PCNA Rep): There will only be 450 cars in the NA. Each dealership will get 2 cars and only a few will get 3. The dealers that are getting 3 seem to be the ones, which have invested a lot of money (in the last year) in the dealership i.e. new facility or a total remodel. We should be seeing the order forms within the next 2 to 3 weeks (waiting on the Cayenne release), after the factory receives the order it will take between 2 1/2 to 3 months for production and then the normal shipping time. So it looks like they will be here June or July.

Chip-58, there have been a lot of rumors concerning GT3 production and allocation. Dealers appear to have received only estimates of their allocation, some say for the initial Spring/Summer production, others say the estimates cover the entire production run. Some are saying that their estimates are for more than a couple of cars. Also, some have been calling prospective customers to fill those expected slots, saying that final allocation and availability should be known by mid March.

When I was at the Chicago Auto Show,2 weeks ago, I spoke with a regional manager of PCNA. He confirmed that only 1 GT3 will be supplied to each US dealership, taking up the May to August production. These cars will be called MY2004. After the factory break the remaining GT3 production for 2004 will be distributed based on Porsche Sales volumes and other factors. He estimates that will be another 500 cars, for a total of 700-750 for the US. But that 500 is just an estimate! I am third on the list at a major dealer, so he thinks I definitely will get a car!!

From what I can tell, no one knows the answer to the allocation question. My dealer (where I am #1 with a signed contract) says his PCNA rep gave him the impression that they would most likely get one car (even that was not said in a way as to make my dealer belive it is a done deal). His dealership belives this so strongly that they have only accepted one order behind me. Turning down other requests to be put on the list, not wanting to disappoint people.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Chip-58: <strong> 2) Towards the back of the guide (where the thicker steering wheel is listed) you will notice a column that states "Required." the example of the thicker wheel notice it states ZO997. This will be offered on the 997 models, which will be out in late 04 in ROW.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Chip, The option code Z0977 is simply the code for custom tailoring, is required for a whole raft of options at the back of the order guide. I suppose this must be similar to the old Exclusive option that was available in Europe but not here. It has nothing to do with the model 997. Karl

I read somewhere this GT3, at the Geneva Auto Show has the Thicker Steering Wheel option...? <img src="http://www.flat-6.net/phpBB/uploads/12285824.jpg" alt=" - " />

Does the GT3 have an oil level readout?

Good question. I know the oil level indicator on the dash on the GT3 Cup is present but doesn't work. You have to check the oil level with the engine running and at temp. The dip stick is located inside of the oil filler neck. I assume the street car is the same but not sure. Karl

Yes, it will be just like the other dry sump models (TT and GT2), I think. There, the car is warm and running at idle on a flat surface when you begin the gauge's measuring sequence, unlike the other 996's where the engine is off to use the gauge.

To all, good luck on your quest for the GT3. Back in 2000, I wanted / wished for a GT3. After three years of waiting,I ended up with a 03 GT2. I had a deposit on the GT2 7 months before it was launched. Some of you, want the 'Sports' option, good luck, cuz I went all the way up the channel @ PCNA and the response was NO. So, for the few that will get hold of this gem... congrats! <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" />

Does anyone know if they're getting the GT3 at MSRP? Talked with my dealer and they're a little vague about pricing.

One dealer I talked to today told me that they had just sold their first GT3 at MSRP; this dealer was previously selling cars above MSRP. They don't know how many more they are getting yet (or at least not saying). I know that I will also get mine (allocation dependent) at MSRP from a different dealer. If the current decline in the economy continues I think I will ask for a "courtesy" discount of about $5K, but I won't hold my breath waiting for it.

Went to the dealer today here in New York and he printed me a copy of the 2004 GT3 Order Guide. Not too many options that are a "must have" in my opinion except the Xenon Headlihts and floor mats. The dealer is taking deposits (non-refundable) at MSRP.......also...... Same dealer said car will not be avilable until around September due to the productions slow down at Porsche. Her told me even a regular 996 C2 can no longer be ordered as a 2003. Only 2004 orders are being taken for September/October delivery.

Panorama states that 750 GT3s will be produced for NA. I interpret this to mean that there will be no shortage of these cars. What do you think?

That's consistent with what I've heard from dealers. Most dealers will get 3 GT3s, with the bigger dealerships getting 4 to 5. Funny thing, many people are on several dealer's lists, so if you're #3 you may pleasantly find yourself at #2. The only "must have" options I can see are Xenons and Thicker Steering Wheel.

And the ceramic brakes!

To me they're not worth the price; I've heard too many negatives. Unsprung weight could be saved by switching to floating rotors with aluminum hats, lighter wheels and titanium lug nuts.

I have ceramic brakes on my GT2, and I love them (street noise and all). There is so much misinformation and myth about these (and the GT2 in general) it's unreal.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Colm: <strong>I have ceramic brakes on my GT2, and I love them (street noise and all). There is so much misinformation and myth about these (and the GT2 in general) it's unreal.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I agree. They are great no matter what people say. However, that doesn't mean they may or may not be worth the price when the PCCB is an $8150 option on the GT3. That is a hefty price to pay for the benefits they offer.

The way I look at options is as follows: If I think I want it, then I consider if it can be added later, for a reasonable cost. If not available later, then I go back to thinking if I really want it or not. Then if I really, really want it I consider it as part of the price of admission. Based upon my limited experience (as recently as yesterday at Buttonwillow) I want my GT3 with ceramic brakes. So a GT3 at $99K or $107K is still a value proposition for me.

My order is in the porsche system for july build at window: pccb xenon yellow belts mats [$115, the bastards] ac base black interior [nat. grey or brown costs 4300!] $109K window white Note: Perkins and Terry Wells have confirmed that lower ratio gear sets will be available so us canyon bombers can set the car for 2,3, 4 gear max. acceleration. i plan a 6th gear redline at 150 mph. this car will be fun Note on PCCB: i had no problem with them in my GT2 hard street use only. Fixed wing gave me great bed in tips. Thanks again Steven

Ok I have to ask (since I'm considering this option for the GT3) what are the real numbers on the PCCB vs the standard GT3 breaks? I have not seen any 60-0 or 100-0 numbers for either. I'd love to see a real numbers comparison under identical conditions. Can anyone point me to some data? Also can someone fortunate enough to have tried both give me a "seat of the pants" review? I'm not interested in all out track use for this car, it's going to be more of a road car. That means traffic, water and cold breaking. Additionally I've heard that the PCCB rotors are quite fragile so my thinking is to go with standard breaks on a road car, especially if PCCB doesn't offer a very qualifiable gain in stopping power on the street. TIA

Oh and watt, do you happen to know the order codes or ratios for the gears? I've been thinking the exact same thing... 150 is fast enough.

Watt, Congrats, Way to go, my GT2 is white (I love it) and the natural gray leather was around $1400. Couldn't you talk the dealer in underwriting the leather upgrade?. The cost is ridiculous!

die Urkraft your ? 1} i had 3 996 TT's and one gt2, so i can compare the brakes qualitatively. turbo steel brake are outstanding. pccb brakes in my gt2 were better in extended repeated heavy mountain downhill braking, but not enough to bother with if you don't highly value the unsprung weight reduction. i did bed them wrong and they felt funny until fixed wing helped me bed them right. But otherwise i loved them... your ? 2] i was on the phone w/ Porsche Motorsport today per Terry Wells [head of PCNA parts], and they don't know nothing yet, so i left another message for Terry. I'll let you know when i have the ratio choices and part #'s Colm, My GT2 was Seal; please let me know when you sell yours, I want it, and please send me [[email removed]], or post some pix. As one of my most talented porsche buds said once; "white says I just don't give a **** anymore, zeees car eeez for speeed" The entire GT3 order guide is a laugh, you could spend 50K on weight-bearing cosmetics. but only 9K on function [PCCB, Xenon, Mats}. How about $3100 for the privelege of Zanzibar Red??? Why can't we specify a lower gear set from the factory when the box is being built??? Irritating.

I'll try and post some pictures this weekend. I can delegate the task to my son since he will visit for Easter. My other great challenge in life, other than getting around a track faster, is to figure out if I'm technically challenged, or lazy, or both.

"My other great challenge in life, other than getting around a track faster, is to figure out if I'm technically challenged, or lazy, or both." the beauty of life, Colm, is it doesn't matter. you're rollin' a GT2, and the sky is blue. At the gnarly edge [GT2/GT3] porsche still has it. i'll look forward to the pix. I deeply respect your colour choice! Thanks

watt, thanks for the information. So if I'm reading what you wrote correctly you would say that the PCCB were better in fade resistance? How about initial bite when they were cold? Was there any noticeable breaking distance reduction? I read fixed wing's post about using them on the track and he seems to imply they are not quite ready for "prime time". Is there a post where fixed wing describes the bed in procedure? I looked but could not find anything. I would certainly appreciate any unsprung weight reduction, but I have had track breaks on the street before and had some unpleasant experiences with cold breaking which I would rather avoid. Since I have the chance to spec this car from the start I'd rather not waste money on something that might give me sub optimal performance on the street. &gt;Why can't we specify a lower gear set from the factory when the box is being built??? Irritating. 100% agreed on this one. I'd rather get it done right from the line. This is very unfortunate but probably required by the Feds to meet emissions and and fuel efficiency standards or some such rules. Oh and then there are the seats... don't get me started.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by watt: <strong>Why can't we specify a lower gear set from the factory when the box is being built??? Irritating.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">That's because a given car is Federalized as a whole with a specific engine and transmission. Once you change gears, it would affect emissions. As such, another certification might be required. This is why you don't see cars sold new with *optional* gear ratios.

die Urkraft - I agree about the seats and the gearing imposed by DOT and EPA, but really, they are small problems (reversible) compared to the compromises we've had to endure in the past (ride-height, bumpers, very much reduced engine power, and last but certainly not least: No Availability in the USA of the model at all! So, I'm counting us lucky this time around, even if it's not a perfect situation) ;-)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by GrantG: <strong>I agree about the seats and the gearing imposed by DOT and EPA, but really, they are small problems (reversible) compared to the compromises we've had to endure in the past (ride-height, bumpers, very much reduced engine power, and last but certainly not least: No Availability in the USA of the model at all! So, I'm counting us lucky this time around, even if it's not a perfect situation) ;-)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Well put.

Steven/Fixed Wing wrote me some emails and gave me links that were great.. Steven, can you post that info for everyone? I will try to find his email next week. I never had a cold braking issue and i jump on it right out my door: down the mountain, off camber downhill hard braking and the PCCB were on it. As I say, I love them and why worry so much about an 8K decision. they work fine and if you want to save the weight, go for it. Others mentioned those low brake ducts in the GT2, I knocked one loose on a rock, but it was nvere the problem that the front valnce was. we have rocks down on the road when it rains and my roads are very bumpy, so i had to constantly back off in the GT2 to keep from smashing the ground. in these conditions a TT with more ground clearnce is much faster It is ridiculous that we have to self install GT3 seats in a GT3 because the factory can't sell them in USA...

D U, your other ? was fade: PCCB seem to work better the more you push them. no fade. but i never noticed any fade in my TT's so maybe i'm not qualified to answer... altho' the boys here know i push the cars a bit.

Watt, This is my attempt to post pictures of the GT2 in white. The little brother will probably get traded for a GT3 (I already have the license plate) <a href="http://homepage.mac.com/colmcampbell/porsche/PhotoAlbum7.html" target="_blank">http://homepage.mac.com/colmcampbell/porsche/PhotoAlbum7.html</a> I hope it works.

Colm, what plate have you registered! I managed to get 'GT3' here in Washington and I've been driving around with them on my BMW for the last month.

thanks colm, i love it. car looks diminished and nicely understated in white. gt3 will look good in white too. rs grass: i bet it's gee tee 3

"GEETEE3"... Nice and easy for the cops to remember as you blast by them in the canyons...

<a href="http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/autoshows/2003/ny/video/03ny_video_gt3_high.xml" target="_blank">US GT3</a> From <a href="http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/home.xml" target="_blank">Car & Driver</a>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by MetalSolid: <strong>I read somewhere this GT3, at the Geneva Auto Show has the Thicker Steering Wheel option...? <img src="http://www.flat-6.net/phpBB/uploads/12285824.jpg" alt=" - " /></strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Yeap is right , this GT3 was at the Porsche Lounge, it has the thicker steering. Feel it great in your hands.