Dropped off 996

I bit the bullet and am doing the IMS in my 996. Dropped the car off at Kraftwerks near Columbus, OH. Getting the LN bearing. Fingers crossed nothing wrong and just the IMS and maybe a clutch. Shop was spotless. Owner was great.

Be sure to post some photos of the old bearing after removal.

I replaced the IMSB in April of this year. Here's the old one... looked like new...

That picture is huge in my browser. You shoud see what the part that shows up in the browser looks like. Anyway, car drives perfect, no noises, and clutch is great. Also its a 99 that has the better bearing. Was wondering if I giving into all the hype in getting this done. But I feel better.

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What was the cost? How was the old bearing? How many miles on your 99? We're there any symptoms before taking it in?

Was it replaced with a double row bearing?

There are reports of the LN Bearing failing also Anyone's thoughts on that ?

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That's what I like to read. Check what car I have and all original bearings.

I'm Biting the big bullet and getting the sollution done a Raby's in Ga. I'm sure he will give me the bearing and I will post what it looks like with 83K on it.

Mine was replaced with LN (dual row), old one had 65k miles on it, no sign of wear or any play.

Still at the shop. He said he will call me when done. No symptoms at all. Car with 38,000 miles. Just doing it for piece of mind. After researching before purchase I put the money aside to have it done. Asked the local dealer for a price. They quoted me a price for the bearing install (flat charge based on hours plus cost). And then if needed a clutch a flat rate for that also (cost of parts plus labor). No discount for labor for doing both at the same time. The estimate was $5000 for both. Using Kraftwerks near Columbus, Oh. He is a LN certified installer. Has a 6 week wait. He does one per week and has them lined up for weeks. Since its a 99 can only get the retrofit, not the solution. He charges $1900 for the bearing install and parts and will install a clutch if needed for cost of parts only. He charges a flat rate for the install. He said some are hard and some are easy. I have no history on the car, so I hope its the original motor so the bearing can be done. I will let you know more as I know more.

Got the update today Good news - clutch is good Bad news - IMS was about to go. He said there was metal everywhere. Gave me 2 choices 1- do a 3 month rebuild for 12-15K 2- replace IMS, remove oil pan, flush motor, change oil every 1k for while advantage of #1 He's from the flat 6 innovation school - it will repair all of the weaknesses of the motor and last forever, and I have a good core advantage of #2 Cheaper Disadvantage of #1 Expensive Disadvantage of #2 no risk of engine blowing up and screwing up the timing, etc since I have the new bearing, but... all the pieces of metal will never get out and lead to premature engine wear Thoughts from the public?

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It's a little late now, but yeah, I read about that. And put a lot of thought into that question. After all my research my conclusion is that the bearing should be a wear item and the LN bearing is no worse than the stock bearing. My plan is to do clutch/IMS bearing every 50K miles.

I spoke to Jake Raby and he Said that this "Would Not cure everything and the engine still could fail" Jake would Not Warantee even the IMS he installs

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Is this just for the ims replacement or in my specific case where the ims bearing already started to fail?

Unfortunately, you'll get about as many opinions as there are people here. Were this engine mine, if he doesn't have clear evidence of significant metal being pumped throughout the engine.... I think I'd go with just the bearing & frequent oil changes for a while....unless you were going to rebuild as a 3.8 and make it a performance rebuild.

The issue with the ceramic IMS bearing is that it doesn't address the original design issues that lead to failure. It improves the bearing with better, harder materials that are less prone to wear and failure. The IMS Solution addresses the design issues. FWIW - I'm having a new LN Engineering ceramic bearing installed this week.

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It would be easy to misread Zanzibar's post as an indictment by Flat Six of the LN bearing...but it is my suspicion that this isn't the case. As Jake has documented, there is no shortage of ways for the M96 to die; addressing one potential mode of failure just takes (hopefully) one of those cards out of the deck. The spectrum of IMSB positions is fascinating - at one end, we have conspiracy buffs who are in complete denial, convinced that the issue is just a ploy to sell bearing upgrades; at the other end are the uber-paranoids who will probably wind up swapping the bearing out more often than some folks replace their battery.

My suggestion is to learn how to fix it yourself.

Man that stinks. This is the 1999 cab you bought sight unseen from dealer for 26,000, right? Did the dealer happen to include at least a 90 day warranty? Just hate to see you sink this much in a 1999. Terrible way to welcome a new 996 member. Sorry, bro.

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If you are in love with the car and want to keep it forever, #1 is the way to go. If the car isn't going to be a family member, #2 is the ticket. It's hard to rationalize plowing $15K into a car that's worth $20-30K unless you plan onto it for a long time...

Best idea so far.

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Actually it was 22,995 plus ad-ons by the dealer, but remember how this all started. Wife bought the car for me. That is priceless. Also, luckily I knew the risks of a Porsche. If I wanted reliable transportation I would have bought a Japanese car (No offense to German car lovers - I have a BMW, Audi, and a Porsche, but you know what I mean). Just by my calculations if I drive 25K miles per year I would need 2 seats of rear tires and one set of fronts per year at $1200/year, new IMS/clutch every 50K or every 2 years for $2400 or about $1200/year, 5 oil changes per year, plugs every 2 years, brakes every 2 years, new top every 4 years, etc. I am in $400/month after the car is paid off and before I put gas in or pay insurance. My biggest complaint is that since finding out this news I am not as excited about the car as I was.

If you actually wind up burning through two sets of rear tires every year but only need brakes every other year, I will start an Internet campaign to legally change your name to Drift King.

Did you look over your agreement to see if there is a 90 day warranty? Most specialty car dealers include a 90 day waranty, they just dont say much about it. Take Imre's advice. The 996 is now a DIY'er car, not a "must bring to shop for everything" car.

I wonder how many forum members suddenly develop a keen interest in car maintenance because some guys on the forum recommend it. Seriously? Do you guys hang out on cancer forums recommending that members become oncologists?

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You're killin me. Anyway. More lots of thought last night and time spent on the phone this AM. Bearing was intact but going. No engine damage, just debris that may or may not cause damage in the future. He is replacing the IMS bearing, RMS, and I am having him do the AOS since everything I read about on this forum happens to my car. Drains? clogged, seat heater? bad part, seat power switch? check and replaced. He can do the AOS easily since the trans is out. He will rebuild it for me like flat 6 does - and I guess the expensive part is new sleeves in the motor and he would not give me a firm estimate on time til completion. Looked at motormeiser in CA but did not read good reviews so passed on them. Spoke with UFOmotorsport in CA. Read nothing but good things about them. He said he can save me a few hundred on the rebuild because of things like the new AOS. Cost at most is $7500 (and he was willing to put in writing) plus shipping - figure another $1200, so for $8700 he can do it in two weeks. I am considering that at this point

So your going to own a $35,000 1999 996, right? You do realize the insanity in this, I hope?

FIRE YOUR MECHANIC! You started with a working car. He clipped you for 5 grand for a clutch and a bearing. Now he wants more to "rebuild" your engine. Am I seriously the only guy on here thats going to call BULL****?!?!?

Re-read the post. $5000 was the dealer quote, IMSB & clutch. His mechanic was a reasonable $1900 forthe IMSB parts & labor, and just th eprice of parts if a clutch was needed. Mechanic said clutch was fine (should be with low miles like that). mechanic is giving choices, and good ones at that.

That mechanic should show a lot more than flakes in the oil to recomends a full blown rebuild. If the cylinder bores are intact, why the hell the need for sleeving? This goes for the heads too, if they are prefectly fine, why rebuild it? The engine should be flushed and the oil cheged a couple of times to see if it cleared up. Does anyone repair these engines anymore? Seems like the first option is always to do a full rebuild. This is crazy.

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I hope if I get it mechanicaly perfect, then fix the body work for a few grand, I can drive it for 2 years and then sell it for about $35,000. From what I understand the 1999 cabrio 4 in silver is the next hot collector porsche. Seriously, yes I do. Not really happy. Original budget was $30,000 for everything. But I have wasted money on worse things. For example my ids college tuition. Food and clothes for the kids. Also, nothing depreciates like a new car no matter what. Boy you got me going with this post and I have a break at work. I do not believe in the $22,000 mint 1999 996 people see and never have to put money in to. I am sure they exist, but its a 14 year old car. You pay for it plus tax plus goofy parts like seals and bushings and stuff, and it is not long until you are well above $25,000. Also my wife overpaid for the car and did not get an inspection, etc. But even if I lose all my money and have to walk to work, I can say my wife bought me a Porsche for Father's Day. And buying a porsche is never a good decision if you plan to drive it 25,000 miles per year. I knew that going in.

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Thats what he is doing now. He is going to fill the engine. Run for a bit, then change the oil again. He recommends changing oil every 1k miles for a little while. Again, he does not think the engine is going to blow and he does not think there are any problems now. He just thinks that the little bits will never all come out and the engine will wear prematurily. Maybe 100K maybe 20K. I trust the mechanic. He's not out to gouge anyone. He just seems to have the flat 6 mentality.

Fair enough. Drive it until the engine needs a rebuild and that might be a very long time, then decided what to do. The Flat Six mentality is good but very expensive. I'm on the other hand part of the Eyeball Engineering mentality.

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+1 No brainer in my opinion. If the motor implodes, you are in no worse shape than doing a full rebuild now. And, you might never need the rebuild. Just stick with the original plan - no need to convince yourself that you need a full rebuild. You might spend the money on a rebuild, then get rear-ended at a stoplight within a year, totaling out the car. Can't tell you how many times I've been rear-ended at a stoplight in my life - at least 6 times. Once spent a bunch of money fixing up a 190E (new stereo, new paint, new exhaust manifold, new climate control panel) only to have an idiot rear end me and total the car (mine was bright red, it happened at 1 pm on Tuesday afternoon - he was talking on his cell phone).

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Sure, and did you catch the part where he wanted to rebuild the motor? like I said the first time ... FIRE THE MECHANIC!!!!!!

You need a serious reality check. Better learn the 996 fast and quit throwing money away on repairs you know nothing about. If you educate yourself about your car, you would be amazed at what you can begin to DIY. I have the service manual for yours online. You should DL it, then study it before you visit this "mechanic" again. JMHO and good luck.

Krazy - I think he was pulling your leg.

Krazy, you've spent more on oil changes than OP will on his rebuild...

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You sure you didn't have the 2.3 16v with the dog leg tranny and just didn't know how to shift? j/k

Deleted.

I know you guys have all been waiting for this. I have pictures.

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Best advice for all "possible" issues. If you KNOW the engine will fail soon address it now so you are in control of the situation (like not having the engine fail at 75mph on the HWY 300 miles from home). You can also address the cost when it is financially beneficial to you. In the OP's case, I would advise just changing out the IMS and the oil and wait and see. If you are prepared to put $15k into the car fine. But you may not have to. Set aside the cash, get a AAA account (or better yet, an extended warranty) and see what happens. However, some people are just too paranoid to own these cars and I know they would getter more enjoyment out of driving something else. Sadly, I sense that here.

I'm no expert, and I don't even like Holiday Inns, but that bearing looks a little on the beat up side.....

The outside of the bearing gets chewed up during removal. The important views are the ones from the side looking inward, once the seals have been removed. It LOOKS like the seal on the inside of the bearing is still in place, which suggests that any debris from the bearing is flakes from the ***** or the races. If the seals are in place, it seems unlikely that any debris large enough to cause engine failure originated from the bearing. OP, is there play in the bearing shaft? How about pics of both seals once the bearing is cleaned up? What's the mechanic's justification for recommending a rebuild? If the bearing is intact, it seems like your preventive maintenance is finished...

Just reread from start to finish. Since your mechanic stated that there was "metal everywhere" - where is a representative sample of some of this metal? At this point you're at $23K for the car and a few grand for the bearing. This seems like a good place to me. I would stop now... OR: Since the car's in the shop, spend the cash to replace the items that are GOING to fail: * AOS * Water pump * Coolant recovery tank * Coolant cap I would do these things and STOP unless the metal debris is more frightening than your pics of the IMS bearing suggest it is. If you "upgrade" the motor and sell it a few years from now, you will never recover that money. If you turn around and sell the car in six months, the $$$ you get from the sale plus the money you're considering spending for a rebuild will put you in 996 turbo territory. You don't get to spend the money twice - so keep it, enjoy the car the way it is, and save the money to (a) fix the car if it ever comes to it, or (b) do something else with, like take your wife to the Bahamas as a thank-you for buying you a Porsche.

This is the bad part about this thread. He will soon be there. Shouldnt feel bad, I think Im in 997 TT range with my 996 expenses.

Gong to pick up the car tonight. $2100 for the IMS change, new RMS, AOS, and flushed and filled the engine a couple times. Could not be happier with the price. He also threw in some extra oil filters. I was planning on AOS and water pump myself, but with the trans out he did the AOS for almost nothing. The last pic is the new magnetic drain bolt after the first flush, so there is still some metal in there. Hopefully he kept the bearing so I can see it when I pick the car up tonight. And I came up with a plan. Drive the car until it dies then worry about it. Life is too short. I will have my son change the oil every few weeks or 1000 miles for now.

Good choice! I now task you with exponentially increasing your range 1 over-revs.

Pull off the serpentine belt and check your water pump for shaft play. If it wiggles, you need to replace it sooner than later. As soon as the shaft has play, you will start shearing off the tips of the impeller blades, which are then free to wander around your cooling system and lodge wherever they like. If you do it yourself, do not remove the water pump from below as the various DIY guides suggest. Remove the idler pulley closest to the water pump and remove the old pump / install the new one through the engine bay. If your son is young and has small hands, put him in charge of removing the obstructed water pump bolts - you have to be a contortionist to get some of those suckers out.

To O/P, I think you're making the right choice. Just because there was particulate matter in the sump doesn't mean it ever got to the engine. Most oil pumps have a screen on the bottom for really large pieces; then there's the filter before the oil goes to the rest of the engine. You didn't report low oil pressure (e.g., the pump had enough debris to clog it). So, flushing and moving on is not just a cheap option, it is a reasonable choice.

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+996 And +996 on your wife. Pics?

Wrong sir. Thats exactly what it does mean. There are small metal pieces throughout the engine. The clearances will soon be shot.

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Let's get a betting pool going to see how close or far KK's estimates will be. OP, glad you got everything sorted the best it can given the circumstance. You have sound reasoning and who knows how long it could lasts. There are member's cars here that drink oil yet are still running(some on the track nonetheless). For the next few oil changes, I recommend sending oil sample into Blackstone.

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Pics of my car or my wife? Anyway, just picked up the car. He showed me the bearing but its going back to LN for research. Bearing was intact with a little play. All of the pieces of metal that came off are tiny flecks, which I guess is good and bad. Good - they won't clog anything Bad - they may all never come out Drove home 90 miles. Gonna change the oil tonight Car runs and sounds just like it did when I dropped it off, but I am $2000 further from retirement? Anyway, guy at Kraftwerks is great. I thought he did a lot for a reasonable sum. BMW dealership wants $1200 to change 3 injectors on the top of the motor. KrazyK, if ever in NE Ohio, call me, I'll take you for a spin and a beer. Water pump is this weekend project Thanks everyone for their support and input. What's the min bet for the pool? I drive 25,000 miles/year, so we should know shortly.

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You would be amazed how loose/worn an engine can be before it stops running.

I realize that but were not talking about a 1985 Chev 350. My observation is that the engine cannot be properly cleaned, inspected, and possibly saved from further damage, without removal and disassembly. I guess if he has nothing to lose with the 3.4, run until it quits and find another. This event might cause a future sale problem but he is already way too many $$$ into this 1999. Still think he should have at least asked the selling dealer for help.

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Selling dealer won't return phone calls. It's been almost 8 weeks and I still don't have the title.

Man that stinks. Was this an Ebay purchase? You may have some remedies or help.

Remember this was a surprise for me from my wife. She found the car on ebay, but the dealer said to buy the car outside of ebay. I hate to use the word evil. But Thrift Auto in NJ is as close as I have seen. They charged her a mandatory $500 wholesale fee on top of the asking price and an $800 detail package where they guaranteed the car to be perfect condition (not in writing of course). From what I can tell the detail package was to wipe the car with a rag and vacuum with a dust buster. But remember. She bought the car for me, so all is forgiven.

Red flag! (no purchase protection) There has to be some type of written contract, buyer agreement or something from dealer. Most high end legit dealers have an automatic 90 day warranty.

Why would they offer a 90 day warranty? A person can do a lot of damage in 90 days.

Maybe its just a local thing. Mine came with a 90 day warranty for no extra charge.

$800 detail package? Ayyy.... Typical dealer treatment when they see someone perceived as a naive female buyer. Same goes for many mechanic's shops. A couple days ago, my daughter needed a part for her car. The mechanic wanted $275.00 for the part, plus an hour labor. I picked it up from a local Porsche/VW independent parts supplier for $50 (same part, OEM, new in box). It was a 5 minute install (including getting out the tool box and putting it away). Anyway, doing the repeated oil changes as you have planned seems the best course of action to me. I hope your wife isn't feeling bad about the gift. It's the thought that counts. (P.S. Mine came with a 30-day limited warranty... I read the fine print... pretty much was useless... so I bought the car essentially assuming it was warranty-free).

The thought nothing - the gift was f'ng awesome as well! Regardless of who you bought the car from, the bearing is a good move, as is doing the other known maintenance items like AOS, water pump. I personally would rather have a car that has a few deferred maintenance items like those listed above than a car that has a rebuilt motor with no accompanying story...

If this is the ad for your car, it came with a warranty. I would carefully read your paperwork. Hope your saving your records. You may have a case. http://www.thriftautosales.com/web/u...ersey/7370224/

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wait a minute... This shop swapped out the IMSB and didn't change the oil before they fired it up and left it for you to decide when to change it? As in 'when I get to it' ??

Its important to replace the IMS bearing whenever possible and always have the oil level at max since the 986,996 motors starve for oil in certain conditions. Always perform oil changes when its time.

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OP is going to change the oil again after the drive home to remove any particulates shedded by the old IMSB.

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And that warranty included exactly what?

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No, he flushed it twice. He changed the IMSB, Dropped the pan, cleaned evrything, filled it wth oil, ran it up to operating temp. Changed the oil again and still found pieces. Then ran it up to op temp and changed the oil again. So the one I did when I got home was the fourth oil change and still with small flecks in the oil.

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How did you find that? It brings tears to my eyes. I remember a time long ago (about 6 weeks) that I would look at that ad and say "that's my car." Are they tryin to sell it again? Anyway. I have been through my paperwork and new jersy makes you sign a large piece of paper that says "AS IS" And I called Thrift and they said no warranty. Ever. My salesman told me to stop calling him and the manager won't return my calls. It is what it is. If I wanted to be a "dick" I guess I could go through the fact that nothing was notarized that was supposed to be. If there is an attorney out there who wants a class action suit - kind of like the robo signing mortgage cases - I am sure it is there for all out of state dealers. I signed the papers at my house - wait - no I did not, and then they notarized it in NJ, but it wasn't me.

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yikes. Did they check the pan/filter before this preventative fix was started? Being that it was a dual row (low probability fail to begin with)

After 4 oil changes, run it a little longer before next change......I believe you have the magnetic plug and metal particles should collect there.......I get small flecks on my magnetic plug on every oil change.......IF at this point the car is not making knocking sounds, I would continue to drive....... By the way, the ad does state "Limited Warranty"....

The tiny flecks described were present in nearly every oil change in my 986, and also present in occasional numbers in my 996. The dual-row IMSB in my 996 was in as good a condition as you could hope (both seals intact, 0 shaft play, no visible scoring on the bearings or races) - but since the bearing was full of engine oil, it's evident that (a) the seals don't work as well as expected, or (b) our collective understanding of the reason the seals are there is flawed.

This completely conradicts their ad. Save the online ad quick before they take it down. I would at least consider filing a case in small claims court where the car was delivered not where it was purchased from. With merit, these cases are easy to win. Most likely you would get a default win for no show. Have you tried speaking directly with Nick or Vlad Ouritski? Maybe ask for help with repair bill(s)? They are not BBB accredited (see below), so no help there.

Good point, Schnelly! Dgjks6, hopefully you are seeing significantly fewer flakes with each change? (referring to the oil, not the people here).

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I see what you did there...

Save a copy of the ad showing the "limited warranty" offer. Have someone else call them to ask about the "limited warranty" they offer. Record the phone call as they probably won't put the warranty in writing. You don't need to notify them of the call being recorded as long as you have the consent of the caller to record the call. Hire a kid right out of law school to sue them for you (a bunch just took the bar so there is a fresh crop of starving new lawyers out there) - offer a 50% contingent fee to the lawyer. Sue them in your local court (they sent the paperwork to your state to sign, correct?). Claims: limited warranty should cover this problem; extra detailing package was not done to reasonable standard; fraud by notary in notarizing your signature when not in notary's presence. Tell the whole story to the attorney you hire and he/she might see some more claims. They won't defend the lawsuit in your state. Get the judgment and register it in New Jersey. They probably won't have any assets, but make a claim against their dealer bond (bond is only $10,000 in NJ so that's all you'll get, but it will likely keep them from getting another bond and make it tougher to get a license). My office manager had a problem with a used car dealership here in KC a couple of years ago. They were pretty arrogant even after she got the judgment - basically told her to "screw" off. But then she made a claim against their bond, and next thing you know she got a call from their attorney begging her to withdraw her claim against the bond and offering to pay in full. YMMV, but worth a try. If nothing else, if they won't play nice, neither should you - and maybe you'll prevent them from taking advantage of the next wife who is wonderful enough to do what your wife did for you.

Maybe I'm just dense, but what are the damages suffered by OP? He stated: "Still at the shop. He said he will call me when done. No symptoms at all. Car with 38,000 miles. Just doing it for piece of mind. After researching before purchase I put the money aside to have it done." How does this translate into "let's sue the dealership?"

Being a part time lawyer myself I have looked into the legal aspect and also NJ laws. Without them putting "mint" condition in writing I am screwed. But...the law states they are supposed to clearly explain to me what "AS IS" means and have me sign a piece of paper in front of them that is notarized. Since this never happened I may have a claim for the body damage and dents on the car. Then I could make an argument that the fact that it arrived 2+ quarts on oil and 500 more miles than when they got it meant they had test driven it for 500 miles with no oil which lead to the more IMS damage (which has been documented), then if the engine fails they could be on the hook. I am actually more sad that dealers like this still exist out there. I looked at a few specialty car dealers around here and they always made it clear these were used cars and tried to point out if anything needed done to a car and said they would fix it. I appreciate the therapy session here on line though. If anyone is ever in Akron, drinks are on me.

The car is an awesome gift! I wouldnt waste more energy worrying about the bearin. Your doing the right thing by changing the oil more frequently, you may also want to consider swapping filters mid-way between changes. Don't let this experience deter you from enjoying the car. Put this behind you and run the crap out of it. It's a machine, there nothing irreplaceable on it, except the intent from your wife, so enjoy that regardless. Jmho

Unfortunately, yours isn't the only story I've heard of lousy dealer experiences lately. Say, are you aware that you can change the filter in your 996 without losing the entire payload of oil? If you decide you want to replace the filter (your curiosity gets the best of you), you'll only lose about half a quart of oil...

Just wanted to make my first post. I've been reading a lot on here but finally registered. I'm about to pull the trigger on a 2000 911. Is there anyway to know if it's been replaced other than service records

Nope, no other way to tell. You have to drop the transmission to see it. Oh, just saw you are looking at it. After being bitten by the no inspection purchase I can give you a list of things I would check before purchase if you want. And even though others the bearing replacement has no effect on price, I think that is for the uninformed. It would make an impact on how much I would pay.

Well, it's update time. First oil change, nothing. Second oil change, nothing. Third oil change after 2000 miles and found 3 metal flakes about 1-2 mm in size. More research done... They are metal, not copper, which I guess is good. Spoke with Jason at 9xx motorsports ( used to be UFO). He gave me some advice. I could keep going and keep my fingers crossed or get a rebuild. He explained how there is a place debris collects after a failure that can't be cleaned without splitting the block. If debris gets into the sump instead of the filter then the engine is toast. Still thinking, but he can do a rebuild for $7500 and gives a year warranty. He now only does water cooled engine rebuilds. Must be a good business to be in.

All used cars sold by dealers in NJ have a mandatory 90 day warranty. Unless you sign an "As Is" agreement. dgjks6 you are torturing yourself with "More research done..." If the engine is running fine with no knocks etc and you are only finding 3 metal flakes (were they magnetic?) after 2k miles your engine is currently "shedding" less metal that many on this forum are finding in their happy healthy engines. Copper and aluminum are metals, the metal you are currently concerned with is ferrous/magnetic. Too bad you couldn't get the old bearing for inspection. Flat 6 is not going to warranty that bearing. He might even pull the "Flat 6 approval" from your indy if he saw the metal that was on that bearing and magnetic plug and knew that one of his seal-less bearings was put in there.

I find interesting that in the bearing pic the silver "schmutz" on the IMS side of the bearing looks like the original grease that the bearing is/was filled with. I have only been involved with replacing 3 of these bearings. All with between 50 & 80k miles on them. None of those bearings had any sign of the original grease in, on, or around them. None on the IMS side. None in the bearing after removing the seals. And certainly none on the mount side. All three were preventive maintenance with no signs of failure, just engine oil in good bearings. So yours with ~35k miles shows that the grease can hang around for at least 35k miles. In your case it doesn't appear to have done much. Interesting side note: Your Dealer is only about 10 miles from the local dealer auto auction. Manheim NY Metro Skyline Phone: [phone removed]; [phone removed] Fax: [phone removed] 100 Us Highway 46 Fairfield, NJ 07004-3217 https://www.manheim.com/locations/SK...oc_nav_locmenu

The metal was magnetic. Isn't copper magnetic? And I did sign an "AS IS".

If you have a strong enough magnetic field all matter is magnetic. But copper is so weakly magnetic that we can't observe it without very, very large magnetic fields. So the short answer is "No, copper isn’t magnetic."

To me, any dealer that chooses such a lame name (Thrift Auto) can't be the kind of dealer anyone should expect anything from! Thrift and Porsche do NOT go together! That said, you can pull the bearings out of any random 996 and find trouble. I don't think preventative replacement is something recoverable in a suit.

Thank for all the input. This has turned into my personal vent thread. Things I have learned so far. 1 - Wife is still the greatest wife of all time because she bought the car for me 2 - Without an inspection and AS-IS I resigned myself to the fact I have no dealer recourse 3 - My IMS bearing "failed" and it was not preventative. I thought because there was no damage I was safe, but it seems to be that from my trolling on the forums the bearing did fail because of the amount of damage to it So as it sits now, I have a few choices 1 - continue to drive until it blows up and buy a replacement and rebuild it - cost about 13,500 plus shipping 2 - send for rebuild - cost $7500 plus shipping 3 - Porsche dealer offered to take apart the motor and clean out the metal and put back together and as long as no damage to anything they can do it for $7500 4 - have a 2 ton paper weight in the garage 5 - sell as a non runner for $6000 and be done with it The real issue I am wrestling with now is do I tell my wife? She will go ballistic if I put $10,000 in the car. I think I am afraid of her.

Just drive that b1tch and change the oil every $3k miles. Take a couple lessons from Vasir on here.

^+1. Also the flakes seem to have gone down, which is a very good sign. What am I missing?

Sorry if the story has been schizophrenic. But after the last change no metal at all, before that had the small shiny stuff. This change no shiny stuff but did have a few magnetic flakes. Unclear where they are from. Possibly old stuff now coming out. Possibly the new bearing starting to fail. Possibly something worse. After a brief conversation the flat 6 and LN its not a matter of if, but a matter of when. Guy from CA said maybe old bearing material coming out but he has seen new bearings fail also when they were replaced in a situation like mine. I love the $6500 thread, and that's what I would do if I want not already almost $30K into this adventure so far. I am thinking about buying a used engine and letting it sit in the garage until this one goes. I figure if I do this mine will never go bad. Mostly just venting here and I appreciate all the feedback. Still more concerned about the wifes reaction. Still not sure which direction I am going.

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What do you mean by shinny stuff? You didn't mean a shinny metallic sheen on the oil itself (which will be really bad). How much you will really save by rebuilding the engine at this point vs wait till it fails (if it ever fails within your ownership)? There are other inexpensive ways to mitigate the potential failure down the road such as LN's spin on filter, IMS Guadian Jr, oil change and inspection and used oil analysis every 3k miles. The problem with buying a used engine (if you were serious) and store it is you won't know the engine's condition and whether if it even runs unless you install it on your car. Why not wait till you have to cross that bridge?

@dgjks6 I just had Jeff @ Kraftwerks replace my bearing and the bearing was in good shape. He sent it to fab6 for warranty purposes. I saw it and it looked great, unfortunately (probably wasted money but now I can sleep). Jeff is Technical member of our local PCA chapter MORPCA. I trust Jeff more than any other Indy shop and all the dealers I have dealt with. I just bought my C2 2000 in December 2013 with 55,000 miles on it. Where in God's name is that fab6 poster when **** hits the fan....Missing In Action figures and sketchy. Low mileage garage queens are the issue to IMS failure in my opinion. That is why I had mine changed b/c who knows what the previous owner did with it! And you did the right thing by taking it in. Drive the heck out of it and have Jeff @ Kraftwerks do any rebuilds you decide on etc. You and I both saw this guys shop and he is meticulous, organized, responsive, timely and seemingly honest. I just met Jeff last month but that is my personal opinion and experience. I will not take my car anywhere else! See you at Mid-Ohio this April DE days! Now quit worrying and enjoy. My bet is it will never fail!

Don't get your poor wife involved in this. Drive it and IF and that's a big IF something happens, buy a used engine for a few thousand, spend a little on PM items and call it a day. Like Ahsai said, be diligent on oil changes, do oil sample analysis, cut open filter, leave the radio off when you start the engine and enjoy the drive. Start putting away some money aside monthly for that rainy day fund if it ever materializes.

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Well said and completely agree you should not let your wife worry about it at all. Just enjoy the car with your wife. Happy wife happy life Although it may sound irresponsible since it's not me who is paying but I do feel your odds are pretty good as long as the flakes are getting less and less (so far it's the case). Btw, you knew that even the LN bearing will need to be replaced every 50k, right? Just how far are you willing to worry about IMSB failure, which btw is one of the 20+ modes of failure!

Well, finally have a plan. I just changed the oil and there are stil lmore little flakes coming out. I am going for the rebuild. I put lots of thought into it. I love the car. (I actually prefer the 996 Mk I headlights - I guess the car came out at that time in my life). So now just waiting on shipping quotes to CA. And if one of you guys can tell my wife for me I would appreciate it. She actually had a plan I did not think of. She just wanted to let it sit in the garage and do nothing.

Well car is going on vacation to sunny southern CA. Off to UFO motorsports for an engine rebuild. Have not driven the car in a couple weeks because I was scared the engine would blow at any minute. The drive to meet the truck reminded me why I am doing this. These cars are just plain awesome. Decided that in for a penny in for a pound. But I am going to fix and restore everything. I probably will be $40K into this before car is perfect. But the amount of time I spend in the car and how much I enjoy driving it makes it seem reasonable. Wife is OK with it as long as she can spend the same amount as the rebuild on a trip to Europe this summer.

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Now we're talking, I had to buy my wife a new Ford Explorer to shut her up. Don't stress on the new motor if you love the car, it's not an investment it's a 911!

This is starting to get expensive. We (my wife and I) discussed the additional cost getting an upgraded IMS bearing during the rebuild. She is going to Florida this weekend to see her parents. And I am stuck with the 6 kids. Car is not even to California yet.