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Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHThe tale of the $6500 Carrera
Leading reported evidence
Check why it was off in the first place
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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0
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1
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Read evidence and context
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
The timing will be reset and checked for why it was off in the first place.
Leading evidence: 'Check why it was off in the first place' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust cam timing' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Shipping added $245, total = $2,375 (also fitted LSD)
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Pulled the transmission and had it rebuilt and replaced the clutch,TOB etc.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
The PO did have the oil changed religiously with mobil-1...
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
They also replaced three sycros and it is as good as new.
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Suggestion
In addition to the visual check, send in an oil sample to Blackstone for the stuff that the naked eye can't detect and to give you a sense of if the PO put it away wet or really wet.
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Outcome without a verified action link
Thanks, but I'm gonna get it fixed one way or another.
So you guys saw my thread earlier:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-question.html
I finally had it flat bedded to the house im remodeling. Put in a new battery so i could roll up the windows and was about to call it a day and go home; and then i told myself i must look at the filter... I dropped the filter, looked at it. No flakes, nothing abnormal. just a somewhat dirty oil filter- as they are after a while.
So I said to myself "you know what? F*** it, im turning it on- I prepared myself for a new motor anyway"
I sat in the seat, rolled the windows down, turned the radio off and talked myself into turning it on.
*start*
engine is just trying hard at this point to start (remember its been sitting for ~10 months).
after 5 seconds of the engine turning over it starts, and i patiently listen for any kind of a rattle.
Nothing. Not a squeek, not a squeel, not a tapping, nothing.
But then something happened. It sounded like it has a leak somewhere, at idle the rpm was irregular. went up and down and when it was really low, it rattled. but thats just because the rpm is super low. - This ill be looking into.
After 2 minutes of me listening to it, I get inside again, rev it a little bit an take it for a spin. So far mileage logged: 5 miles.
To be continued.
Nope..
Ill be going through the car with a fine tooth comb, just short of taking the trans down and staring at the IMS, but I think if I havent jynxed myself- if i just change the fluids, belt etc, and continue changing the filter in 50 mile increments and dissect each one for 1k miles- or till i get sick of it, whichever comes first, it should be fine.
Change the oil and install a magnetic drain plug. Look for massive vacuum leaks in the intake system or coolant temperature sensor fail causing the funky idle. Clean the throttle body lip with some cleaner, inspect the MAF for badness.
You may get lucky.
In addition to the visual check, send in an oil sample to Blackstone for the stuff that the naked eye can't detect and to give you a sense of if the PO put it away wet or really wet.
I'm pretty surprised that you didn't encounter any lifter noise after sitting 10 months. This could be somewhat of an indicator that the PO used a quality oil and changed it regularly but merely speculating.
I took the car out for a spin this morning. You have to understand, Im a merc guy. Im on my 5th SL, and 3rd w140, and somewhat (really) used to the boat like feel. A few years back i would attend track days and what not when my friends would go and id take the clk55 or g35 coupe (shhh)... anyway on with the story.
This car drives like its on rails. Im sure i looked like the biggest idiot/douche on the planet zipping around. The plan was to go to the store next to my house, after block or two of driving, I changed my mind and went to one 4 miles away.
Moi, je regrete rien on this purchase, even if it was catastrophic.
Yep, nothing. There was a metalic something or other there, but upon further inspection, it was just a thread of some sort that was part of the filter. weird.
Plug on order, and CSI rated inspection to happen today.
Not a bad idea, may as well! Ill do it. The PO did have the oil changed religiously with mobil-1... Maybe theres a correlation?
Rolling the dice on this one
Heard the rattle the PO was talking about. can only hear it at idle and it sounds fairly rythimic- only at idle though. rev it up a tad and the noise goes away, and then when at idle it comes back at random for 10 seconds or so and then its rythimic again. Changing the oil in an hour or so and going from there.
Havent gone to the sifting of the oil yet; some DTCs showed up:
P1316, P1317, P1318, P1319, P1324, P1397.
Also, the rattle... Its more pronounced and even more rythimic at idle- though above 1k rpm, its gone.
I feel like an investigator trying to solve a crime right now- this is pretty fun. waaay more than a non-running engine from the get go.
To be continued...
Looks like misfires.
http://p-car.com/technical/obd2.html...20or%20misfire
Check the cam timing marks at TDC and get some new gas with some Lucas gas cleaner in her and see if this improves things. A good tuneup also in in order. All these are DIY. Always be looking for vacuum leaks with rough idle problems.
pardon my noobiness, from the little research i did it looks like i have to drop the engine to get to this cam sensor?? thats not right, right?
Edit: nope. I got this. putting it on stands now.
Did you listen to this video in post #9 in the other thread? Does the noise sound like "pool *****" clacking together?
VID 00019 20101207 0956 Porsche IMS bearing sound - YouTube
no, not like that close, but no?. hard to describe.
Ffffff... If only I knew this 5 minutes ago. I spent 1 hour looking for my other jackstand when i gave up and used the ghetto cement block method instead, as you will see in the photo.
But thank you, this does make it easier!
figure its still good to go under it to investigate where the drip of oil is coming from.
Can you at least id which end of the engine the sound is coming from? When the cats break down inside, they could rattle like that, especially at idle.
it def is coming from the where the trans connects... Ill start it up again and go under it to listen. maybe take a recording. In other news, the serpentine belt is toast.
I hear it on the transmission side of things. Im torn on which to take down as a guesstimation first. If its the IMS i still have to take the transmission down, correct?
Video uploading now...
IMSB odds n ends for bedtime reading.
http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic...of#entry249245
http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic...of#entry243448
http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic...of#entry243192
Porsche 911 Carrera (996) 1999-2005 - Rear Main Seal DIY, how to replace - YouTube
Porsche 911 Carrera (996) 1999-2005 - Intermediate shaft (IMS) bearing DIY, how to replace - YouTube
You're right. It does sound like air leak (can't be). Used screwdriver trick to id the location better? Also, checked transmission fluid level? I think it maybe easier to find the noise once you drop the transmission and have the other components exposed.
Have someone push the clutch in. If it goes away when the trans stops might be trans.
I have been trying to find the thread that was posted on Rennlist that showed an IMSB replacement complete with a 4x4 engine support.
You have to support the engine when you pull the trans. The trans pull is pretty easy. Just remember to keep track of where the shorter bolts go. If you put a long one back in the wrong hole you can punch a hole through the timing chain case.
well, ill do this. the transmission is coming down. Ill look at the IMS, regardless to see how its doing- reevaluate and go from there.
Ill have my dad come over and press the clutch for me while im under it; heres to hoping he wont put it in gear by accident and kill me in the process. rolling the dice its the transmisson.
Could still be DMF although it does sound like the trans. Is there any possibility that the car has a Light Weight Flywheel? That could make the trans clatter at idle.
Doubt it. Ill check the service records for a clutch replacement. But the PO didnt tell me anything about it other than 'the clutch is still good'. im hesitant on taking the transmission down now till i pick a few more brains or possibly just going to a transmission shop. we'll see. currently i keep crawling under it and hoping ill learn whats wrong with it through the sheer power of vehicle to owner telepathy.
If you have someone rebuild the trans make sure they have done one of these before. Unlike the 901, 915, and g50 trans that preceded it you need a large press to pull off gear clusters to get to the bearings.
Here is a video put together by Motor Meister, NOT someone that I would recommend to do any work. (do a search if you want. Not much/any? good press) But you can see the inside of the trans.
Porsche 996 Transmission Failure & 996 Clutch Failure, Motor Meister - YouTube
Open your trans fill plug then pull the drain plug let it drain through some cheese cloth and see what comes out. Stick your finger, or a bent clothes hanger, into the drain plug towards the bell housing and see if you get any of the silver grease from the "sealed" bearings. If so you may have found the problem.
Study up on removing the trans it has to come out no matter which part, IMSB or trans Bearing, is noisy.
Buy a Bentley Manual, look at U-Tube vids etc.
http://www.bimmerzone.com/Porsche_Se.../BNT-P905.html
One of these makes trans drop much easier.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/380607046136?lpid=82
Vasir,
Check this thread for a DIY look at what you will be doing soon. Shark Attack is very entertaining and the thread is very informative.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...t-bearing.html
WTF?? looks like all of the pics are gone? Not much help with out the pics.
let the irreversible investigation begin!
I have a laptop at one side, a phone at another, all while being under the 996. wish me luck. if anything, after the trans fluid drain, ill be preparing for the drop tomorrow.
I did the same thing when I drained the oil out of my non runner 996.
Then used a magnet to see if anything was picked up. My guess will be tensioner pad material in the oil sump and no metal in the oil.
Imo000
I think he is going for trans 1st. That is where the clatter noise is coming from.
Would be good idea to do engine that way like you did. Only I hope he has a larger pan for the 10 qts in the engine vs 2.8 ltr in trans?
Alright, so i put up the car on my ghetto blocks and went underneath.
Took out the plug and the fluid came out golden brown- looked like sam adams lager... speaking of which, i should have one now...
After it was done draining, i stuck my finger in there and felt around. i definetely feel some smooshiness in there. Felt like pureed peas for babies (thats all i can think of to compare it to, heh..
The cloth came out clean. Maybe 10 or so really tiny flakes- though honestly i think it came from the underside of the car while i was pulling it out, the car got jolted a couple times. I uploaded the photos. dont mind the black sploches, those are from my hand accidentally touching it, trying to keep it from hitting the ground.
To be continued...
Based on my research 996 is one solid machine except the followings;
IMS
RMS
Pinion bearings in transmission box
AOS
With the amount of discount you got, this is already the deal of the year!
That's an under statement. I bad to put some leverage on it after a nice wd-40 soaking and a few taps with a hammer.
That's just a somewhat ****ty picture catching the glare from the light behind. No shiny bits or anything in it. Just 10 or so small black flakes which I think tell off the car find landed on the cloth
^_^
That transmission oil is clean, the problem is not inside the transmission. Mine looked like metalic paint and I know a bearing in there is coming apart.
When I get the time later today I'm going to sit and research some more. I can't find any clutch replacement records, even though I remember the po talked about it being replaced not too long ago- I may call him to ask; but my neighbor came over and saw whatsup and mentioned a lot of cars just do that bag of marbles sound in neutral and maybe change the oil to something else? I may do this $60 experiment before I drop the trans.... I have to buy a trans lift and a engine support brace anyway so it's not like it will come down today. Plus my sl600 is in pieces as well and I feel like I went through a minor psychosis last night putting up the 996 and draining the oil. I look like a Beverly hillbilly to my friends and family, I'm sure.
I had a pinon bearing that was bad on the car when I purchased it. Pulled the transmission and had it rebuilt and replaced the clutch,TOB etc. I noticed a sound after everything was back together (like in the recording) when the car was at idle and the clutch out, almost like something lightly banging around but seconds apart. I traced it back to the transmission, not the engine. I was concerned something was up but after doing some searches, I discovered this was not that uncommon. I have 10K on the car and no issues.
https://rennlist.com/forums/10570560-post15.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/10576031-post26.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/10517176-post1.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/6671833-post10.html
this is relieving news. across the internet i read of this tranny in neutral marbles in a can sound.
for the last hour ive been trying to open the filler plug to no avail. i used a long wrench to leverage the allen tool, and on top of that used a floor jack to add pressure in hopes of breaking it loose. the allen wrench bent.. back to the drawing board.
update: changed the trans fluid to somethign else. little to no change. Slammed on the clutch a couple times in thought it might be that, no change. a friend sourced a transmission for me- im riding this one out till it breaks, or till i cant take it anymore. the only thing that concerns me is the fact that i wouldnt be able to hear anything else over that sound... we'll see how this one pans out. Miles logged: 25.
hah. sorry for the waffling. im just a 'dont fix it till its broken' type of guy.
I'm doing the same thing with my transmission. It's howling like a straight cut gear gearbox.
I would still drop the sump pan and looka t what's in it. The vario cam tensioner pads at 170 are around the end of their life. Its a $20 piece ( need 2 pairs, $40) if they break, it can end with bent valves or more. My non runner '99 had this happen. They are not too dificult to change but the valve covers need to come off.
There are two bearings in the transmission that have a history of making noise, both are sealed bearings. One is the input shaft and the other is the pinion bearing. I was very lucky, my pinion bearing looked like a chewed up IMS bearing but the seals were still in place. The shop said that the pinion gears on the 996 are VERY expensive so you don't want to put metal into them. All the rest of the transmission looked like new except for the bearing. They also replaced three sycros and it is as good as new.
Bottom line, any used transmission should have the two sealed bearing replaced because it is just a matter of time before they become problematic.
Anyone looking for a race shop in Florida that does really good, reasonable priced Pcar, VW and Audi transmission service, drop me a PM. Three transmission rebuilds (track car, spare and the 996) and couldn't be happier.
I did the R&R. Shipping added $245, total = $2,375 (also fitted LSD)
misc freight on trans parts /special order dealer 1 45.00 45.00
996 302 808 00 pinion brg 1 508.00 508.00
996 302 807 00 main shaft bearing 1 349.90 349.90
syncro rings ( 2nd 3rd 4th ) 3 131.00 393.00
limited slip unit ( customer supplied) 1 0.00 -
TOTAL SERVICES (shipping) $200.00
TOTAL PARTS $1,295.90
TOTAL LABOR $880.00
TOTAL $2,375.90
so ive moved on from the rattle and now im attacking the misfires/cam sensor.
I see the sensor, i cleared the space for it. but is there a trick to get this out? my allen wrench barely fits in there and i cant twist it off for the life ot me. im letting it soak in wd40 and will reattack in a few.
Nice. ill be picking up a can of that.
in other news i got it out after a lot of fumbling around. i feel like a champion right now.
heres a photo of it. its all gross looking. ill clean it up, replace the o-ring and put it back in, in hopes of doing the trick. thoughts?
Kroil is "da bomb" for freeing up rusted parts. 10x better than WD-40, PB Blaster or any of the other more common remedies.
Problem is I believe it's still a mail order only purchase.
Nothing beats acetone and ATF. Cleaning up the sensor will not fix it. It's a magnetic sensor that either works or it doesn't, there is no sort of works unless the wiring is the problem. You could swap it with the other bank and see if the code follows it.
Interesting. Great idea. I put it back in already; gonna ride it out. It normally comes on after 10 miles or so. Miles logged : 8
Going for another spin!
Yep code popped back up. I had the scanner hooked up to it for real time. Waiting for the engine to cool off and ill swap sensors as you suggested to see if it follows it.
Ffffff.... The location of the other cam sensor is a b*tch to get to. Wish me luck guys!
Edit: Yeah... Im not touching that with a 10 foot pole. ill just order a new sensor and roll the dice. in the mean time ill replace the spark plugs, change the oil, and soem misc things while waiting on it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...2c978d&vxp=mtr
Will that cam sensor fit my car? i know sometimes parts look different years down the line, but still work (much like this one seems) but i just wanted to run it by you guys first.
Edit: yeah nevermind. autozone has one by my house for cheaper. woop!
After being in/around/under the car yesterday my brain got fried and I took in more degreaser fumes than I would like.
I woke up this morning; wasn't even out of the bed yet and thought to myself "its not p1327 its p1324!!"
The code for the cam sensor is now gone, the p1324 code is the one that pops right away along with low airflow and 4 misfires, but if I continue driving it it will become a low airflow, multiple random misfire, all of the misfires for each cylinder and the p1324/timing chain
Can't find info on P1327 but P1324 is "Timing Chain out of Position Bank 2".
See more info here. Looks like time to remove the green cam plugs to check for camshaft alignment.
http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic...539-and-p1324/
http://986forum.com/forums/performan...iming-m96.html
so something bad may have happened... the rubber cap somehow managed to pop into the hole and slide down... if someone could chime in and tell me i dont have to drop the engine to get to this that would be great. On somewhat the same subject- i havent gotten to see if the timing is right or not. panicking over the rubber cap first.
The hole for the cam sensor? You may be able to fish it out with one of those little tools for grabbing loose bolts and stuff. The ones that open up like a little claw.
Yeah... I see it fell on top of the chain.. I keep trying to fish it out with wire but it's like trying to sew a needle and thread with claws and a 1 ft extension. Fml.
I got it. Crisis averted. Moving on to the timing chain again....
In an effort to not have 100 posts of just be saying "okay" or "moving on" ill edit them and add more as i go...
Edit:
Got the cap out. heres a picture of it on top of the chain. and here is another picture of the timing notch, off center- as you can see its not horizontal. before i begin this blind adventure of trying to center it, does anyone have any more information they can share? Ahsai's links are proving to be invaluable; but just curios if anyone else has anythign to add, or mention that im doing something wrong.
Thanks,
Ben
Question. Moving on, how would i adjust the timing to the correct place if i dont have bank one to compare to?
Question two: how does a motor simple fall off timing on its own? Whats the real reason this happened- Or possible reasons.
. I wonder if the 356 community knows this one. There is always chatter on this subject as those are up to 63 year old rusted in parts! I can't wait to try the ATF Acetone concoction.
2003 Carrera 4S Speed Yellow / 1955 356 Continental 1500 Rust Red
Proceed with caution. I'll let other more knowledgeable members chime in. A few of those have done timing correction before personally so they have 1st hand experience.
As for a reason, there are only a couple I can think of.
1) Work has been done on the car before that involves the timing chain and it was done incorrectly
2) There was a serious (but temporary) failure of a chain tensioner somehow that allowed the chain to slap around a bit and jump a cog
3) Are you SURE the engine is at TDC and that you're not a cycle off?
If someone replaced the IMS bearing and didn't follow the procedures related to locking the engine and cams at TDC and removing the chain tensioners, the cam positions can move.
Your cam timing marks are off. Read this, Jake gave some really good advice that should apply to you issue.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...t=timing+marks
More about adjusting cam timing.
https://rennlist.com/forums/8170969-post6.html
The camshafts rotate at one-half the speed of the crankshaft so you are at TDC for cylinder 1 or TDC for cylinder 4 in the picture. You need to check the position of the camshaft groove to determine which one you are on. Can't tell from the picture if you are looking a 1-3 or 4-6 cam and which way the slot is pointed. It is pointed toward cylinder head cover on 1-3, and towards the crankcase on 4-6 for TDC cylinder 1. If not at TDC cylinder 1, rotate 360 degree and it will be.
Vasir, I think the quesion is whether the two-notch end of the exhaust cam on Bank 2 are parralell to the cam cover. The relative timing between the intake and exhaust is governed by the variocam chain between them by a fixed number of teeth, which of course can be mis-installed if someone was in there before.
Also check out this thread by Dharn55
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-on-996-a.html
This happened to my engine except it bent the valves. The cause was a piece of the vario cam yensioner pad breakng off and getting between the chain and the sprocket. Since you have 170K on it and happened to mine at 200K, my bet is you have the same thing happening except no bent valves yet. I would not start this engine untill you find out why the chain skipped. The valve covers are remvable with the engine in the car. I'm planning to do that in a few months. You will need to buy or make some tools to lock and hold the cams in place. They are fairly easy to make. Look for my thread on my engine repair and you'll find the link to the entire project. At the second half my thread is are the pictures of what my version of the cam tools are.
Here's how to set the timing on the 4-6 cyl.
You need to remove the two other plugs from the front side of the cyl.head. Check allso the 1-3 head.
There is something seriously wrong in the engine, I suggest that you drop it and take of atleast the valvecovers.
It's much cheaper to rebuild it now, that it's still running.
I have taken the valve covers of when the engine is in the car, but can't recommend it when doing so first time.
This could be simple as the variocam pad's/guides.
Allso if the 4-6 chain tensioner was replaced wrong way. etc...
IMS will also make the timing go off, so be carefull what you deside to do.
^^ I have to agree. Cheap labor now will save you thousands later. You will end up with the cheapest 996 ever. Just take the time to sort it out. Jumped teeth easy to fix. Bent valves and bent gudgeon pins not so cheap.
Gah... All the time I'm taking away from projects to mess with this, I'm losing money doing it myself.... But it's the only way; I won't know the car otherwise.
I'll take the time to clean/reorganize the garage, roll the car to a new position and re-evaluate the situation. 2 days in a row I'm operating with a fried brain. I can work with one hand tied behind my back on my V12s, but this I'm falling apart
You'll be fine just take it easy and read up as much as you can. Like you, the 996 engine was alien to me too. The more you work on it the easier it gets. I'm a DIY gearhead too so the basics were there to know how engines work. They are all more or less the same and so is this one too.
+996. People have to realize this is just an internal combustion engine with the same basic principles. Variable valve timing has been around since the 80s in production cars so nothing new there either. Like with most German and Italian machines, there maybe some special tools needed to do certain things but not really a deal breaker IMO. Glad you've decided to take the plunge and get your feet wet.
Im throwing in the towel. Im taking it to my mechanic tomorrow or the day after, after I button it back up. We'll see what happens. I've lost 3-4 days of my life/work and possibly got a cold as result- I'm in real estate, not in the business of crawling under cars... Hah
I have a general idea of what going on and I'll be able to relay it to my mechanic. Sadly hes not a porsche guy, but a merc guy like myself- but I'm sure he knows what hes doing. He is a mechanic afterall!
After talking with my girlfriend about it and watching Inglorious Basterds at the same time, Ive come up with a name for the carrera: Bridget von Hammersmark.
A gorgeous head turner that attracts a tad too much attention, which is okay; but her story just doesnt add up... My mechanic may end up killing her.
Works out since the car prior to my current SL was Fraulein Maria and my current one is just "The Mistress".
Yeah I name my cars... Hah.
The following picture pretty much sums me up at this moment:
Vasir, I would really advise you to take it to the local Porsche mechanic at this point. These cars are very particular, so I don't want you wasting your $$$ paying for the labor to the Mercedes mechanic to try to diagnose the car. Get the Porsche Independent shop to do a full PPI and give you their low down on the car, this way you have a complete picture and good sense of how much $$$ it will cost to get it functional.
+1 Most likely your merc mechanic doesn't even have the proper diagnostic tool like Durametric. As you saw the info mentioned in this thread, he will have to learn all that no different than you. If he's a friend and does the work for you for free, that's a different story.
We'll see... I really want to take a car to thunder hill this spring/summer that isn't a boat like my 600. Sloshing around the corners isn't such a good time; the Porsche needs to be fixed. Also; too many people know about it now, can't bail on it now.
The 996 handles extremly weird when compared to a "normal car" that has a front engine. It is downright scarry. You might not like how it handles in turns if you are used to driving the SL. Once you drive it, you'll understand why having an engine behind the rear axle is a design flaw.
Already got some plans for it as a road trip car... Bra, roof rack, small cargo box and a basic set of tools and Alaska here we come!
...Of course once it's fixed and has proven its reliability..
Alright, so I heeded your warnings and decided to take the car to a Porsche mechanic. Makes sense that it would be a simple diagnostic for someone who knows thier way around the motor, AND has the tools necessary to actually fix it vs someone fumbling around that is pretty much in the same boat, knowledge wise.
Anyone in the NorCal/Sacramento Area hear of IPB-Autosport in downtown Sacramento? Thinking about calling them tomorrow and dropping the car off there.
I think I made it worse. I put it all back together the best I could, to the way it was before i touched it so that when i handed it over to the mechanic he could just do his thing.
Closed it all up, added new oil and then i said to myself "hey lets start it for half a second." Worst noise ive ever heard, ever. Definetely the valves hitting the cylinders. Was literally half a second though. whatever... the damage is already done. we'll hear what the porsche mechanic has to say.
Don't hold your breath!
I believe so. 1-3 on the left, 4-6 on the right.
Off to the mechanic now to explain in person what I did before I call in the flat bed.
Mechanic doesn't think I messed it up too bad. He said he will hook up his diagnostics to it and should be able to set it correctly and then go from there. His first guess is a bad tensioner pad, but he can't remember if bank 2 is the easy side to get to or not. Apparently one of the banks if the tensioner pad wears out, the engine must be dropped; the other, the engine only "dropped a little" whatever that means.
We'll see what happens, wish me luck!
Dropped the car off to the mechanic. Talked about the car and then talked shop for a good while. I now know about the IMS and the bearing more than ever; along with the differences between the motors over the years. Ron without a doubt knows his stuff; I enjoyed talking to him.
About the car:
The timing will be reset and checked for why it was off in the first place. He also said not to be too concerned about the valves hitting the pistons if they have at all; since they aren't angled like in most cars. Overall, a weight has been lifted off my shoulders and the car is in the hands of a professional.
Can't wait to be putsing around in it!
Well ****. Im sure im the one that took the info in wrong then.Though I specifically remember looking at a spare head on a rebuild theyre doing.
You have to understand, I'm the retard being explained by an expert whats going on- I doubt its his explanation more than it is my comprehension.
regardless, I find out the deal thurdsay whats happening.
FFFFF
Oh well, I've already prepared for the worst. Rolling the dice on not too terrible news. My brother was laughing at me and said: "So do you think the shop bill will be just the tip, or an entire fist?"
Thursday's news will dictate how I'm doing valentine's day. Cliche romantic dinner, or ramen and netflix? hah jk..
Hey, it was a $6,500 996.
Chances are pretty low that the previous owner and his mechanics were complete idiots. This was always a big roll of the dice. If you get the car back on the road in good shape for $6-10K then you are way ahead of the game.
I don't know if there was a record or not. Car was $5K, bringing home to Canada (fuel to tow, hotel, duty, taxes) was $1500 and to fix the engine and get it road worthy was another $2K. Total was $8500.
So the mechanic reset the timing.
This is what he had to say on the invoice:
"CAM TIMING, RESET/CHECK (Bank2) after reset cam timing, run and check
for chain noise. FOUND: Cam timing way out of spec, reset, ran engine to check
actual values. Noise occurs on right side above 2500RPM, runs rough at idle,
however smooths out just off of idle. No damage should have occurred due to cam
timing. RECOMMEND: Remove oil pan to inspect for debris and give direction
for next step."
Tomorrow they drop the pan to see what color plastic is on the bottom; he's convinced its a tensioner pad that's bad, but I guess the different tensioner pads are different colors, so the debris should be at the base of the oil pan.
We'll see how it goes...
Got an update via email:
"Hi Ben, we cleared the faults after resetting the cam timing and got the P1324 cam timing out of position after.
We are getting large cam deviations due to the bad cam adjuster or rails on B2. So, with that said we recommend to remove the valve cover on bank2 to see what is needed to correct this and the bad sound above 2500rpm on the same side.
Regards, Ron"
And in the next email some time later:
"BTW, the oil pan inspection finding were only brown plastic bits, which is good. The brown bits are the rails for cam adjusters.
Ron"
So it seems to be the best of the worst news. Car will be back on the road sometime next week I think?
I figured I'd share my emails and what I'm going through with you guys incase one of you have similar symptoms and the like; makes me feel a tad better when I open my wallet to get the car fixed. Hah.
... Now to search for a roof rack and slim box- already started plotting out my road trip...
The hydraulic tensioner paddles for the vario cam.
the tensioner spreads two paddles apart which the chain rides on
controlling the exhaust and intake timing cams relationship.
As you put pressure on the paddles it pushes out the rails.
Probably have grooves in them and/or are falling apart.
simple fix (relatively speaking).
M
Awesome news dude!!!!
I'm going guess that the grooves will be much deeper than the pic above.
If the removal of the valve cover does show worn pads, get the other side changed too. If they are originals they won't be far behind in wear.
They are only $20/set/bank (2pads/set).
Okay. So I got the estimate today. It will be ready Monday afternoon- 1890 bucks after diagnosing and repair.
Not bad, $8400 Carrera. Fresh fluids and everything. I'll be taking it on a 1k mile trip at the end of the week.
I am SOOOO glad you were practical and didn't cave into all the rabid fear mongering going on in this board. Congrats and enjoy.
Seriously - as much as I really respect Jake Raby and all he has done for the Porsche community, maybe it's just his writing style but he truly makes even KrazyK sound like an optimist. It got to the point where I actually stopped going to this site for a while.
The dude makes a living because people deliver broken Porsches to him every day. Expecting Raby to wander around swearing up and down that every 996 will do 200,000 miles is as absurd as the idea of the local undertaker standing on a street corner shouting that we're all going to live to be 100.
People have a proclivity toward freaking out when something unusual happens under the hood - the very rational fear of the unknown. Knowing that Porsches cost a lot to fix compared to Hondas adds to that anxiety.
This stuff aside - OP: congrats. Nice to see somebody take a risk and win.
Just visit my brother and friends in Newport Beach and then back home to Sacramento. I was going to fly, but what better way to test it's reliability than this?
They're going after bank 2 first and then if that is in fact the case they will do bank. 1 as well. And yes I did mess with the exhaust timing; not a lot though. Just loosened the bolts turned the crank a tad before i told myself I should stop while I'm two steps behind.
Just came back from the mechanic for a progress report actually.
The tensioner pad was so worn down that it was virtually nonexistant. The tensioner itself was being worn down by the chain. They have dissected the old oil filter and found metal shavings that I didnt catch, but have determined its from the tensioner which is a relief. The chain for certain is being replaced, but theyre going to see if they can get away with seating a new pad on the tensioner, or if I in fact have to buy a new one which is ~$1,000. But of all the bad news that I could have been getting, this isnt so bad. New projected time of completion: Tomorrow.
I have a video actually. ill see if I can upload it.
Edit:
heres a video courtesy of Ron the mechanic- im sure he doesnt mind sharing witht the world:
http://youtu.be/QnTbg4yqtJo
Update:
I picked up the car today.
She ended up needed a new cam adjuster along with the pad, not shocked to hear, i know; a new timing chain and some misc items needed to button her back up and the total damage was $2,903.44.
So along with the $6,500 price tag, we're at $9,400, add ~100 bucks for oil and filter. $9500. It drives beautifully, sounds amazing and the clattering went away!
I bought a 2007 DTS the other day and have been enjoying the grandpa-ness to it, but this car is like wind beneath my wings. Selling the sl600 and my brother adopted the s600 to replace with these two cars; I'm quite happy with the transition. Two cars; each with thier own purpose.
miles logged: 15
did you get picture of the bits found in the oil pan ? I would assume they must have been a lots of these brown chances in order for the pads to be completely gone...
you are lucky none of the pads debris clogged anything in the oil system.
I had also some small debris of brown pad material in my oil pan when I dropped it. so I wonder how your oil pan looked when they opened it
Congrats! It's refreshing for once to hear a story where they actually "repaired" what was actually wrong(and not even touched the IMS).
Unlike other stories where new engines get swapped in, total rebuilds are recommended, unnecessary parts are thrown at it, owner ends up selling it, conversion to something else, etc,
It sounds like you found a sound mechanic.
Enjoy the ride.
He was lucky to buy the car from the reasonable seller.
There are few 996 for sale in the area which need the engine/transmission services sooner than later, but the asking price is avg 2x of $6,500; no wonder why these cars are still in the market.
No. Just bank two. Figured see how this turns out for the next few hundred miles and then go back in and go from there.
I didnt get a chance to see it personally, but I was told there was quite a bit.
Ron Kain is a fantastic mechanic. I've been using a wrench for a good number of years myself, and from the first moment I spoke to him till when I shook his hand when I picked up my car, I've felt comfortable; not one moment have I thought "hes just trying to squeeze a couple more labor hours out of me". The whole 'its leaking oil from this spot, you need a rebuild' is not his MO. Actually he noticed it dripped oil and said something along the lines 'it leaks a bit. who cares, enjoy the car'.
Hes not the cheapest, but all things considered, the price for work performed in a timely manner, it was reasonable and well worth it. Often when we go for the 'cheapest route', we get screwed by either time, money, or both.
And on that bombshell...
Miles logged: 132
And to add more to the story. I managed to fall and break my wrist today.
I was unsure if I broke it so I went to a friend's practice today and had her X-ray it for me. Managed to do 3 fractures. Slipped on a spot of oil in the driveway that only the 996 could have left.... And this kids, is why we fix our oil leaks. 28 years old and I've been forced to drive the cadillac like an old man for the next 6 weeks. My girlfriend doesn't know how to drive stick, so the car is sitting in the rain right now instead of the garage till I can have a friend move it for me.
Way to wrap up the story right? It was a fun 2 days driving while I had the chance though...
-Ben
Oh no! So sorry to hear about your wrist. I remember learning to drive a VW many years ago with a full shoulder-length cast on my right arm. When I shifted I had to duck below the windshield to catch the next gear. I hope you have a speedy recovery.
