Question for Current/Recent Sellers...Do Buyers ask about IMS/RMS?

Since I will be selling my 996 in the next few months, I was curious how many current buyers are asking about IMS/RMS issues in the wake of the class action "settlement"? Also, if you did the LNE Retrofit (or equivalent), did you note this in your ad for the car? If so, did it actually help or hurt your marketing efforts? Thanks in advance. Gonzo

Yes, they will ask. I'm on 996 #5, even before the lawsuit and associated exposure it was a popular question. If you don't note it in your ad then you are a fool, because it is a huge selling point. The seller of my current 996 wasn't real savvy, he just knew that he had a local shop go through his 996 and replace everything that might break including "some bearing". Called the shop and talked to the mechanic, turns out that he did the LN IMS, RMS, and clutch.

My buyer didn't ask but I had detailed the retrofit in the ad. Not sure if it helped but the car sold in just a few days.

I put it in my ad and the car sold in 12 days. They buyer did ask about it and I believe its one reason it sold so quickly, aside from the fact the car was really sweet.

Tell them your 996 car doesn't have one of those. If they smile in relief, immediately raise the price a few $k.

I'm a potential first time buyer, but don’t get excited I’m not in the market for six months or more. So I'm researching now. Many adds are useless, some don't even list mileage. If I buy a 996 from a clueless seller I have to assume that I need to spend $4,000 to $6,000 on tires, brakes, and preventative maintenance such as the RMS, clutch, IMSB, AOS, and water pump. There may be other problems perhaps a worn top or worn suspension. I looked at a 1999 996 at a dealership with 60,000 miles for under $20,000. It drove nicely but the car had the look and feel of a boy-racer. Things that turned me off were the rims, window tinting, built-in radar detector, and the K&N air filter. Still that sounds like a good deal. But the dealer didn’t know anything about the car, he had no idea if any of the preventative maintenance had been performed. The salesman I spoke with was the owner’s son. The owner is a “Porsche guy”. The son didn’t know the windshield wiper reservoir from the radiator fill. So in the end the example above could easily cost me $26,000. If I was looking at a comparable car from a knowledgeable seller that had already performed critical preventative maintenance and could prove it, then that car would be worth more to me. As far as the IMSB goes “Solution” > “DOF” > “Retrofit” > Porsche replacement bearing > clueless. When I do buy I’ll be comparing a used 10 to 15 year old 996 against a new 2015 mustang GT with a warranty. I get that a Mustang handling is not a 911 handling and that not all 996s fail catastrophically. The 996 has a credible history of expensive and catastrophic maintenance issues. But, if the new Mustang is any good it’s going to take a lot to get me to take on the risk and expense of a 996, especially one without IMSB mitigation.

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if you are comparing value, why in the world are you comparing a brand new $35000 muscle car with a 1999 used sub $20k 996? Why not get a 996 TT for the same price as the Mustang and beat the **** out of it in performance - with no IMSB issues? 2003 Carrera 4S Speed Yellow / 1955 356 Continental 1500 Rust Red

I've been in my friends 997 turbo several times. This was my first time behind the wheel and the first time looking at a 996 as a new to me car. My primary conclusion was that some sub $20,000 996s are maybe owned by people that can't afford to maintain them. So, when I enter the market I'll be upping my budget exactly as you suggested. I'll be comparing 996's in the $30K to $35K range. $30K for a car without preventative maintenance and $35K for ones with. I haven't been seeing 996TTs at $35K. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...US_Cars_Trucks http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...US_Cars_Trucks http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...US_Cars_Trucks http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...US_Cars_Trucks This one is below $40K http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...US_Cars_Trucks

My boxster has been for sale since Thanksgiving. No serious offers yet. Of the 3 people who contacted me, two of them asked if IMS has been taken care of. I listed the car for less than $10k and still no bites. I think that general Porsche buyer has a good knowledge of the cars and by that I mean he/she is aware of the IMS issue. Question: Is a 996 TT cab kind of rare? There are lot of C4S Cabs, but not many Turbo Cab. Once I sell the Boxster, I will either get a 996 Turbo Cab (if I can find one I like) or a 996 C4S or a 997.

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That's a total apples/oranges comparison. A 10+ years old Porsche vs a brand new Ford. If the Porsche "does it" for you, the Mustang won't even be a consideration. This is coming from a Mustang and F150 owner that likes the current 5.0 GT, they are just totally different cars. If the 996 doesn't do it for you then by all means buy the Mustang, just remember that your $35k car will be a $15k one within a few short years. Also as another mentioned, at $35k you should be comparing 996TT vs Mustang.

It's not a question if the 996 will do it for me. The issue is risk. I think it’s very fair to compare a 10 to 15 year old 996 to a new 2015 Mustang if the entry price is similar. I don’t think that you can compare the 2015 Mustang to anything, there isn't enough information yet. I'm not a BMW guy but I believe that on the track the Boss was competitive with an M3. The 2015 GT is supposed to outperform the Boss. How will that stack up with an M3 or 996/7, will the 2015 GT satisfy my wants, can't tell yet. Will a GT only be worth $15K is three years, I think you’re over stating the depreciation, actually Mustang depreciation isn't bad. Compare depreciation of a 2015 911 to a 2015 Mustang in 10 to 15 years, again I think a Mustang will do reasonably well. I’ve researched Mustang engine failures. What I found was web sites list horse power mods vs. what part of the engine fails at 600, 700, 800, … HP. The 996 engine can fail catastrophically sitting at a red light at idle, but I still think I want one. I’m probably not making friends here, I am trying to figure out if I really want one of these cars, a dream car for me, our if another sports car option is a better fit for me.

Gonzo911, selling 996 will be a pain. List it a few grand below your asking price and say AS-IS. Dismiss any neurotic buyers off the bat, as they will only waste your time and nerves. We are dealing with 10-15 year old cars here. Things fail and cars will have flaws. IMS, RMS, AOS, Clutch, and WP do not require immediate replacement upon purchase. Unfortunately due to hysteria about 996s, selling them is a nightmare. As a lot of buyers appear completely neurotic about "OMG ENGINE FAILURE MUST REPLACE ALL". So, if you want to just sell the car, take it to Carmax and be done with it. No you won't get the top dollar, but $5-10k is really not that much if you think about it. BigShow, if you are talking "risk" when it comes to 996 you should NOT buy the car. Everything is RISKY with 911. Comparing it to 2015 mustang is silly. Brand new car with warranty vs 15 year old car? Price points are not similar and neither is maintenance prices. You buy 911 because you want a 911. Your posts already suggest a low risk tolerance, so 911 ownership is not for you based on that. Buy a 2015 mustang and enjoy it.

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Most M3 buyers don't consider a Mustang. Most 911 buyers don't consider a Mustang. They are very capable cars, especially in Track Pack or Boss 302 guise. But they go about their business in much different ways. As for depreciation, you aren't looking at a 2015 911 so that point is moot. You are looking at a 996 that has likely come very close to bottoming out on value, and comparing it to a new car that will depreciate like a rock as all new cars do. A $20k 996, if well maintained, will very likely still be similarly valued in a few years. You will lose a good portion of the Mustang's value in your first few years of ownership. As for risk, Ford makes a good reliable car and you can't beat having a warranty. But you're paying for it as well.

Interesting read. While I like Mustangs ok, I would never compare one to an M3 or 996, because they are wildly different cars altogether. I've never been a fan of eating depreciation on cars, so I'd always buy an interesting car after someone else takes the hit.

I've had my 996 listed for a while with 3-4 "serious" interest. Only one asked about IMS and most looking for their first Porsche.

This is what I've seen so far, and depending on how fast the sellers want it to move it; (1) those with IMS/RMS addressed disappear pretty quick as some already mentioned. (2) those w/o IMS/RMS addressed depends: (2a) if the price was set right or the buyers weren't aware of these, they also disappear relatively quick. (2b) the price was relatively set high and no room for the negotiation tends to stay in the market for forever.

Currently have a 40th ae and BMW 535i Msport 6 speed and just sold my SCCA GT2 Corvette race car. When looking for cars, I too considered Mustangs, along with M3's, NSX's and a super clean 89 951... Variety is the spice of life and nothing wrong with looking at all options despite the badge and where the motor is. I don't expect to keep my 996 for too long and it's foreseeable that a 2013 Mustang GT with a track pack or maybe a Lotus Evora or a 996 Turbo or a mk1 996 track car... There are just far too many options out there, which is another reason it's great to be alive!

Sorry op, just bought mine and it is something I asked for., however the dealer was unable to tell me. Had a ppi done and soon as this tundra leaves chicago I will pull the oil filter again and also do oil analysis.

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+996 This "hysteria" is the achilles heal of the 996(in both buying/owning/maintaining/selling/upgrading) thanks to the internet and some specific individuals.

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That's because people are stupid and believe everything they read online. Anyone buying ANY Porsche thinking it will be cheap is a fool, the 996 is no different. The "bulletproof" 911 Carrera suffered from premature valve seal wear, broken head studs, and premature wear of the 915 transmission especially 1st gear. 2 of 3 and you're basically talking 996 engine money.

But, but, but... You're not allowed to say something on the internet if it isn't true.

If 996 has IMS/RMS issue addressed, what kind of price hike is considered reasonable? $3K? $5K? I bought 2002 Targa with 52k miles for $24.5K. Spent $3K on IMS/RMS/Misc. I am not selling the car but curious on how much difference in asking price with and without.

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I'm hoping it makes mine priceless!

Best of luck in selling it!! What is your next toy then?

If your prospective buyer is looking at their first 911 they may be totally unaware of the IMSB controversy. I had heard snippets of info regarding 996 engine issues but it wasn't until I started frequenting these forums that I became aware of just how prevalent the bearing issue is on these cars. That being said I think the more upfront and forthright you are with a buyer will only help you in your sale. Explaining what the issue is and how you have equipped your car to avoid it should ease at least some of the anxieties the potential buyer may have. The better you educate the buyer I believe the more confidence they'll have in the car you're trying to sell them. To just gloss over the bearing issue IMO would raise red flags.

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Currently looking for a 997 Cab. Just started to get serious but my goal is to make the move by May. Thanks!

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Going with MY 09+ with the new engine?

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Depends on the price difference and how much I end up getting for my car, but that would certainly be my preference.

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How is the risk comparable between a 15-year old car and a new car with a factory warranty? If your Mustang motor fails catastrophically at a red light, you've got a 3-year bumper-to-bumper warranty backed up with a 5-year powertrain warranty. I can appreciate that you consider the two comparable for your consideration, but this risk argument is ridiculous.

Depreciation, point taken, though I think the difference is less than you’d expect. A high mileage 996 is worth about $15K to $13K, a roller is worth about what $5K to $7K, is that right? Though I’ve seen some rollers listed above $10K but I can’t imagine that’s a realistic price. By contract 15 year old high mileage mustangs are running from $10,000 to $3,000 for a working vehicle. The 15 year old 996 is going to be a lot more fun to drive. So if a 2015 Mustang and an M3 are not 996 competitive alternatives what would the competitive alternatives be? I suppose you have the Corvette and maybe the Camaro, neither are attractive to me. It’s hard to put that much money in to a Miata or BRZ/FRS. I really like the XK8, but I think I fear Jag more than Porsche. If you were going to spend $35K on a fun car and the 996 was on the short list, what else would be on the same list?

A brand new sporty car with warranty for $35k is in no way comparable to the 15 year old super car that used to sell for $80k and now sells for $15-25k. Mustang is still a muscle car, cheap and fun. Every block will have fun, they will be at drag strips. You break it, you can fix it over a case of beer. You have a warranty and there will be hundreds of them built. No shortage of parts, dealers, or shops to fix them. You can buy a 10 year old mustang for $10k now. Much more compatible to a $35k mustang from 2015. It will still have a V8, it will perform about the same and it will be cheap to fix. 15 year old 996 will still outrun 99% of the cars on the road. 170+ MPH top speed was fantastic in 1998, it still is. And yes, any 996 will still outrun all mustangs barring the supercharged SVT cobras on any highway and it will embarrass most other high powered cars that are graced with 155MPH speed limiters. Despite the years and horrible rap, 996 is a cruise missile on the highway. 150MPH mark gets passed very quickly and effortlessly. If your budget is $35k, you can afford to buy a 996 turbo and avoid the IMS fears you have. I also really find it hard to believe that mustang and 996 are being called similar cars. That could not be further from the truth. I have owned Fox 5.0, driven SN95, New Edge, and Coyote powered 5.0; they are not even remotely similar to 911 in any way. Steering, brakes, chassis, engine power delivery are all completely different. Also, both cars appeal to the completely different demographics.

To add to the pile, Yes from my perspective. I tried selling my 99 a couple of a year or two ago and it would have sold if I'd upgraded the IMS. More than one person wanted the car bur deferred due to me not having done the upgrade. Since then, I have done that upgrade and now I have no plan to sell. But, that's in no small part due to the new motor attached to the IMS upgrade. Todd 99 coupe

Didn't notice anyone calling them similar... :-)

Similar budget. Both fun to drive. I've been driving mini vans and SUVs for the last 25 years. A Nissan Sentra is going to feel like a sports car. The best, most fun car I've ever owned was a two seat CRX Si, not fast down the line but a blast on the Skyline Drive.

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FWIW, I still have my CRX and I think it's more fun to drive than my 996. 1800lbs will do that.

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Todd, Just out of curiosity, what was the reason why you wanted to sell? What changed your mind to keep the car? I assume you could put few $k you've spent on top of the sales price to get rid of it.

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Sorry, but in what crazy world is a 996 worth $35k? 997s are going for $35k. 996TTs are going for $35k. A top notch 996 can be had for $25k or less. As a bonus, in ten years that $35k Mustang will be a $10k car. The 996, which is already substantially depreciated, will be worth very close to what you paid. Again, it's apples to oranges. If you are looking at a BRAND NEW Mustang, similar competition would be brand new cars. That would be the Camaro, FRS/BRZ, Tiburon/Genesis, Challenger, 370Z, and maybe some others that I am forgetting. If you are looking at a 996 then an E46 M3, M-roadster, M-coupe, S2000, Audi S4, Mercedes SLK/CLK AMG, Jaguar XKR, Lotus Elise, and probably a few others are in the same ballpark. But it's really hard to compare a 10+ year old car with a brand new one.

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I drove an XK8 just prior to buying my 996. The Jag was a maintenance nightmare and the 996 made the Jag feel like I had been driving a tank.

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Just be glad you don't have a new one since TaTa is now at the helms. Just awaiting for a budget Jag with 3 wheel bolts now, lol.

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Drove the new F-Type. It's like driving a smaller tank. Owning a Jag prior to a Porsche should be mandatory. It puts everything in perspective. But I still like TaTa's!

^^ I see what you did there

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I think it's very market / geography and condition dependent. Most of the really nice 996 Mk2s in my area (Boston) C4/C4S are going for $33K - $36K and on the high side $40K. The 996T are still in the low to mid $40K's and low mileage ones are $50K+ 997 NA are still in the mid $40K's.

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That's what I'm seeing in my market. I have yet to see a 997 or 996tt in the $30's that was worth buying. All have had more miles than my 996 (67k) and were in less than good condition.

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Me too P.S. drove one for 9 months while in Kandahar (most NTVs = NonTactical Vehicles were manual, white pickup trucks made by TATA )

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In congested 3rd world countries with slow speeds and no SUV's, maybe. I don't think a tin can would survive any accidents with the kinds of cars/speeds we have here. False advertising below as there are only 3 lugs and not 4. Maybe swap in a m96 in the rear and GT3 brakes up front?

BigShow--Even though I have always wanted a 911, I was extremely nervous when shopping for my first last summer. I was so nervous, I bought a 2-year warranty on the powertrain. Now, 6k mi. down the road, I sleep like a baby. (Although, that may be from the crash after the adrenaline washes out of my system... ) Good luck. TC P.S.--I will say that, Mustangs of any type (even the big motor'ed ones) look like a Mustang. When you drive up in a 911--ANYWHERE, even with a "lowly" 996, you turn heads.

I agree with what AA says above. I don't have a hangup about perceptions - I can happily drive a beater - but people love Porsches (which kind of explains why we're all here, right?). What's neat is when you see a little kid point at your car. The 911 still does today what it did to us when we were kids, and that's pretty cool.

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No doubt prices are regional. That's why most of my cars come from TX. Plane tickets are cheap. Considering that those are for people moving up from bikes and scooters, it's pretty damn safe.

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I should really consider this option as car prices in NW, especially in Seattle/Bellevue is just extremely outrageous.

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996 from DFW. 328 from TN. TC

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No kidding!

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Our local prices are nutty for everything. I just went to DFW for a boat several weeks ago. Driving 6 hours is totally worth it to save thousands, and I'm always game for a road trip. Any further and I'll get a one-way airline ticket, which normally aren't more than a few hundred. If it's somewhere in the sticks I'll get a one-way rental car. I've been to a LOT of different places to look at cars.......

It's easy to find someone selling a 996 for over $40K. It's hard to find a decent 996TT under $40K. With maybe Jag as an exception, the look and luxury of a car is not really desirable to me. A 1966 or so E-Type is simply stunning. I see Audi, Mercedes Benz, and BMW as luxury cars, some more sporty than others, not that interested. A used Porsche is tough to beat performance at an approachable cost. That's also where a Mustang earns a living. I've driven a 996, not too hard, I'll drive the new Mustang when it comes out and then decide. Sorry for bring all this indecision in to this thread. Regarding the objective of the thread, to someone like me, the IMSB is a big deal. If you've done something about it that means something to me.

If you're spending $40k for a 996 it had damn well better have had the IMS done. Along with a few spare motors and a pot of gold in the passenger seat.

If you can't find 996 TT for $35k you are not looking very hard. 1. Perfect car. Tiptronic, which is a huge + in my book. Fast color. With some negotiation you got it for 35k. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...US_Cars_Trucks 2. Perfect car. 6 speed. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...#ht_128wt_1135 Both are low mileage cars. If you have $35k cash, then make your offers to those two dudes. I will take my comission check via paypal.

The $35K TT is the exception, I didn't say they didn't exist. Most TT asking prices are low 50s to mid 40s. I haven't seen one listed for $35K, granted asking price differs from offer. Are you saying you can't find someone asking more than $35K for a 996? Most adds that I've seen don't mention the IMSB. Still waiting until August/September.

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there are two for sale in the $35k range on eBay right now. Not too hard to find. 2003 Carrera 4S Speed Yellow / 1955 356 Continental 1500 Rust Red

And your point would be what?

I'm not an expert, but I think his point is that they are not too hard to find.

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Meaning most of those Ads you've ran into probably didn't have IMSB replaced.

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+1 2003 Carrera 4S Speed Yellow / 1955 356 Continental 1500 Rust Red

If you really want to spend too much on a 996, you can buy mine for $35k. IMS is done!

So, buy the first TT I see weather or not I like it, regardless of the shape it is in, with an automatic transmission, and regardless of the miles that are on it, very helpful, thanks. Reserve not met: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...#ht_128wt_1135 Reserve not Met: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-...#ht_128wt_1135

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ok, let's try again. The point is, you can get a 996 TT for around $35k. Understand? 2003 Carrera 4S Speed Yellow / 1955 356 Continental 1500 Rust Red

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No, could you explain it again?

A TT for $35K is still the exception, choices are limited in that range. The norm is well in to the 40s. And if you we're paying attention I said difficult not impossible.

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If you can search for a few minutes on national sources like Ebay and Autotrader and find them, it's pretty hard to call them rare. You seem hell bent to compare a 996 to a brand new Mustang, which is unrealistically comparing a $20k old used car to a $35k brand new one. I strongly suspect that the 996 will lose that comparison, because frankly its not fair. In which case you are wasting your time on this forum, you should be reserving your delivery spot for an early 2014 Mustang.

This thread has devolved into a giant waste of time. It has become argumentative over an advice wanted post on the interwebz. My observation is that everyone makes a choice about the 911. We have one. Others may or may not buy one. Titillating. /end

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Welcome to Rennlist! It never fails around here. Lol I guarantee you if you start an oil thread, it will end with a rebuild thread somehow.

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I am sooooo confused. Let me get this straight. If I sell my 2014 Mustang to buy a 2001 996tt with 80,000 miles on it, I should advertise it as never having an IMSB?

No wonder your car isn't selling Gonzo911, you never replaced the IMSB on your 15 year old Mustang!

What? Porsche 996 was made by Mustang? jk

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I was just thinking I'd like to back to an earlier air cooled car. Since I just had a new motor put in it including the IMS bearing upgrade, I made the decision to keep it prior to biting the cost bullet. Todd 99 coupe