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YOUR RESEARCHThis 208k mile 911 Turbo belong to anyone here?
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Replace but you want
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At 200K miles the odds are this car has had that replaced but you want to be sure.
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The engine was replaced at 70k and they claim to have full documentation on it.
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I've been doing my due diligence in efforts to buy an 02-04 996 4S but ran across a high mileage 2002 Turbo tonight that has peaked my interest.
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From the outside check for any fluid stain on the plastic under the front trunk lid.
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Hello All.... New here and this is my first post. Tried search but I get errors when performing them. Also... hope I'm posting to the proper place.
I've been doing my due diligence in efforts to buy an 02-04 996 4S but ran across a high mileage 2002 Turbo tonight that has peaked my interest.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...ngId=364116260
Questions:
1. Would I be nuts to buy this thing and give a high mileage Turbo a shot instead of a 50-75k mile 4S with IMS done?
2. Aside from a passed PPI what else should I look into? Carfax and the ad note New Port Auto Center as having done all maintenance so I'll give them a call in the am to see if I can get additional service info from them. Carfax has a good bit of service info surprisingly.
3. What is a 208k/high mileage Turbo like this worth? Any idea what they've gone for in the recent past?
4. Any recos for who to use for the PPI in the New Port beach area? Will search this as well tomorrow.
Thanks in advance!
BTW... Joining you guys from the NSX community. Sold my Comptech Supercharged NSX in order to find something with a back seat so I can cart my son around. Looking forward to beginning my Porsche experience with either the Turbo or a 4S. The only Porsche I've lapped in (Road Atlanta) and driven is a 993 RUF my friend owned. All I really remember is being able to get it sideways when getting into even the smallest amount of throttle on the interstate no matter which gear I was in or how fast I was going. That was a fun car to say the least!
I used to live in Newport Beach and my brother still does. The best and most honest mechanic I know is George at global automotive? I'll double check. He has a hole in the wall shop, but regularly works on Ferraris, Bentleys and the like. He's an old russian guy that knows everything about everything automotive. You want a ppi in the newport area, you go to him!
Pm me and I'll gladly forward his info for you tomorrow when I find it. Good luck on the car! Phillips is a nice dealership- I've heard good experiences there
Edit:
Personal opinion... It costs to much.
zero9, this question would be best answered in the 996 Turbo forum.
As far as the car goes, I have mixed feelings. I am not scared of high mileage cars, but 208k miles on the supercar is a lot. Things will need replacing on the turbo, and saving $5k on the purchase price is not worth it to me. There is a 300k 996 Turbo running around just fine, so if you can get a solid PPI and confirmation that this was a bone stock commuter...you can take your chances. If you could track down the previous owner and ask him how the car was used, it would be really good. If he was just commuting on it in Cali and driving to Bunny Ranch in NV, then the motor and drive line should be still sound even at high mileage. If this was a track car with questionable use history I would stay away.
Personally, I would get a $35k turbo with 90-130k miles instead.
The PPI in this case should include checking the play in the turbo shafts and a leakdown test and a road test to see what the transmission feels like. Other than that, the rest of the parts are usual wear and tear (suspension, brakes, etc.) and are not a hig deal to change but if the price is only $5K less than this is not a deal.
That is way waaay expensive for the milage. There's a local 996 turbo tip for sale for 30K with 60K miles.
Also bizarre to see wood inlay steering wheel without the other wood options.
Just FYI
My titanium edition cayenne has this as an option, all aluminum trims except the steering wheel.
I too agree 200k mile is high with that price tag.
My 2002 C4 Cab had this option.... I really don't like it (partially because the wood inlay is cracked)... If I ever see a cheap Steering Wheel with Tip show up on ebay, I might switch them out.
Oh... I also saw that the Turbo is only a 2 owner (first owner only had it for 1 year and 11,000 miles).... I would think that would add some value. There seems to be good maintainance records as well (seems to be maintained at same place according to carfax) Also, the fact that it's 200k miles means it probably was a DD, and may have never seen a track. Also a California car its whole life... never seen salt.
Still seems like alot, but I don't think it's WAAY out of the ballpark like some are saying.
What's the life expectancy of 996 turbo engine?
I always think 200k mile is sorta bench mark where things are expected to go south, on the modern post 2000 built cars.
I agree, looks like the previous owners didn't cheap out, tons of maintenance records according to carfax, but as some of already have mentioned, I rather spend little more to get lower mileage 996 turbo.
Exactly the reason why I got mine. I guess I'll have to wait a few more years until I can get the nsx-r or at least a type-S in the states legally once it ages past 25(I wish).
I would do the same, not necessarily because of engine problems. If the car was taken care of and there are service records, it could still last you and be reliable. However, you must take into account all the other components that can wear on a 200k car, like the seat bolsters, all the rubber bits like ball joints, wheelbearings, strut mounts, rear spoiler motor failures(big expense). On Porsches, all the nickel and diming will add up fast and hard before you know it.
If you're the gambling type, $25k at most which doesn't seem too unrealistic imo.
my $.02
EDIT: I'm willing to bet that car has had front end repainted or replaced as well as the windscreen and possibly the headlights refurbished or replaced. Seems too clean for a 200k miles which should have some amount of pitting or blemishes, at least based on what I can tell from the pics.
The Turbo engine is a pretty strong engine. There is one Turbo running around -- last I read -- with over 350K miles on its engine. My 03 Turbo's engine has 117K miles and runs just fine.
Test drive the car. My advise is to have a test ride of 15 miles and then follow it with a test drive over the same route. The route wants to be chosen so the test driver can demo the car the way you're going to use it.
The engine should fire right up from cold and while the engine can sound and run a bit gruff should smooth as as it warms up and as the RPMs drop. Low valve lift is selected at cold start and the engine is fueled richer than it really requires to supply unburned fuel to the converters where it is burned to help warm the converters up quicker. You can hear mild exhaust backfires as the cold engine idles.
The CEL should come on when the key is turned on and go off as the engine starts and runs.
Oil pressure cold will be 4 bar probably. Once hot oil pressure at idle for my car with Mobil 1 0w-40 is 2 bar or slightly under if the ambient temperature is very warm and I have been driving the car say around in 1st or 2nd gear at slow speeds.
Hot the oil pressure climbs to 4 bar at around 3K RPMs.
Mainly you do not want to see too low an oil pressure at idle nor too high. Too high can arise from the owner (or seller) filling the engine with a thicker oil to quiet it down.
The engine should be perfectly happy with 0w-40 oil.
If a stick be sure the transmission doesn't jump out of gear. 2nd gear pop out is while not common a real concern.
From the outside check for any fluid stain on the plastic under the front trunk lid. Any fluid there can be a sign of a bad clutch slave cylinder. At 200K miles the odds are this car has had that replaced but you want to be sure.
The car wants to run with no drama. A hard acceleration run should have the boost reach 0.7 bar with the boost tapering off as RPMs climb past 4K to 5K and beyond. A quick upshift and hard on the throttle should have the engine continue to pull like a train, or accelerate like a jet taking off. A constant force pushing you back in the seat.
Once the hard acceleration is over the engine should return to a smooth idle with no issues. The engine is a beast but a well mannered beast.
Be sure everything works. Check the spoiler for any leak sign. Open the engine compartment lid and look closely. The spoiler costs $2K to replace if it is bad. (There are some who manage to repair the system on their own but budget for the worse case scenario.)
Tire wear should be even. Uneven rear tire wear is an alignment problem. Tires are expensive. Big fat and expensive.
With a proper alignment and reasonable driving I can get 20K miles or more out of the rear tires and double that easy from the front tires.
My experience is the brake life is very good. My 03 has over 117K miles on its original brakes and so far they have not needed doing.
Be sure both radiator fans run and blow the same amount of air.
Be sure with the car on the lift there are no oil leaks, fluid leaks. Check the RMS. My car's RMS had to be replaced at 110K miles. BTW, the clutch disc showed no wear at 110K miles.
The water pump developed a leak at around 115K miles and had to be replaced.
Check the power steering lines, the transmission seals including the shifter rod seals for any leaks. Check the rear and front diff axle flange seals for any leak sign.
Check every hose/pipe fitting for any leaks. The coolant hoses where they connect to the engine, those pipes are epoxied in and can work loose and leak. This mostly occurs to tracked cars. If any leak it is an engine out job to put right.
I could go on. Really the Turbo is just a used car so check everything. Assume nothing works until you verify it does.
After the test ride/drive have the car PPI'd. This has the PPI with a better chance of spotting any leaks.
Read the DME over rev and engine run time. With 208K miles chances are the average speed is above 30mph. But maybe not by much.
Check for over revs in the higher ranges. Whoever you have PPI the car should be able to go over with you what the readings mean.
Can't help you with the price.
Saw this car too and it's looks very clean for the mileage. I too think the price is not too crazy. No cheap 6 speed turbos out there. There was a 140k one in Texas that I think was in the same price range.
Price might be a bit high, but what a sharp looking car. If everything checks out more or less the way Macster suggests, I would make an offer. Life is way too short to pass up a car like that.
In the grand scheme of things, it's VERY rare that you'll be able to find a 996 turbo for under 30k. Most of the higher mileage ones seem to be hovering around 35k in which you'll have more to choose from. The only other ones I've seen under $30k are the salvage and rebuildables.
Any car that is at Phillips will be a clean one. They are in the center of money, population wise; and thier dealership is on a very busy section of PCH that semi regularly has traffic jams with $100K and up vehicles. those people have plenty of time to take a quick peek at whats for sale. So with that said, you dont have to worry about showing up there and being dissapointed in what you see- your expectations will be met, visually speaking
This is one of those times I stumbled on one of the rare moments for a turbo.
2003, 118k, Turbo, clean title for $24k obo from LA Dismantlers. Granted the whole car is probably cobbled together but regardless a great price for entry into turbo world. The engine was replaced at 70k and they claim to have full documentation on it.
Cars like that scare me. They're put together specifically to sell; meaning no concern over long term drivability.
With that said, deals are there to be had. You just gotta be patient and keep an eye out.
You will know when you see the right car that It will be in your driveway by the end of the week.
