IMS Retrofit, LN Engineering, classic vs new Pro single row

Hello, I am going to get IMS Retrofit done on MY02 in a week or so. I was browsing LN Engineering's web site last night and noticed they have classic and new Pro single row bearing. New one has longer life, it appears. Does anyone have an input on this? The shop told me they use the classic single row. I expect it will be ten years before I put on 50k miles, so I feel okay with the classic but slightly longer life is attractive. Thanks.

FWIW, single row IMS retrofit failures has yet to really manifest itself on any large scale other than install errors, debris induced failures, and such. So it's hard to say if the dual row is really any better other than in theory at this point from a practical perspective in terms of retrofit. You're really paying for the theoretical added insurance at this point if you go with it. If you are going to keep your car forever and planning on putting on 100k+ then yeah I'd say do it. Important to note however what their recommended change interval is on a dual row retrofit vs. single row and weigh that with the price difference and your usage and ownership.

I believe the new Pro version double row takes a proprietary $750 install tool the shop must buy ( check the website on this). Unless your shop orders a tool they'll want to do the classic.

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That is what I just found out from LN Engineering. I will check with the shop. Thanks!

It is my understanding the $750 tool isn't "needed" to install the bearing. However not sure if it voids the IMS warranty by not using it but how will anyone know? Also the fact that only a few failures has occured(some not directly attributed to the IMS itself), not even sure if the warranty will factor in since you must prove there was a defect in the IMS itself. If you insist they install it with the 750 fool proof tool, I'd personally would want to see it with my own eyes rather than taking their word.

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Probably the manufacturer keeps track of who bought their $750 tool and take it from there whether to honor the warranty or not.

I just had "The IMS Solution" from Raby Innovations installed in my MY'02 and like the idea of not having to worry about it again. No moving parts and no bearings to wear out.

Incorrect. The Single Row Pro MUST utilize my Faultless tool to install the dual row bearing into a single row shaft. The tool is what was required to allow this installation to be possible. I invented that tool, and you can trust that it is required to install and compress the internal wire lock and allow for installation of the Single Row Pro bearing into the IMS. Period. We didn't do this just to sell tools, in fact the last thing we wanted to do was have a special tool, but since we had to have one to install the Single Row Pro I decided to make that same tool extract and install ALL the IMSB technologies for the M96 diameter IMSB. It can even install the IMS Solution bushing. The good thing about the tool is there's no more pounding bearings in with a hammer, which has been a medieval part of the process since day one. The tool is very heavy duty, heat treated and capable of doing many processes all in one. I challenge anyone to properly install a Single Row Pro IMSB without using this tool. Until a person has carried out one of these Single Row Pro fitments, their opinion is totally off base and shouldn't be considered. Thats because they have no clue what they are offering their opinion about. I can guarantee that no one here has direct experience with this tool, or the Single Row Pro IMSB installation. I know where every tool and every bearing is. Each unit is serialized. Many shops are buying the Faultless Tool even though they only plan on using it to install the IMS Solution, and extracting the other bearings. The only units that are covered by any warranty are those that are installed by Certified Installers, which requires invitation, two periods of instruction, as well as written and practical application evaluations. Each and every Certified Installation is reviewed by Charles and I at the time of registration.

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Did I read it from somewhere that IMS technology has been used by Porsche for years, but starting with 996 engine, they started to use the sealed ball bearings and it has been haunting Porsche 996 model 'til the current days. I also like the ideas of the non-ball bearing while it gets lubricated via the dedicated feed line.

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Many years? How about since the beginning! Well, close to the beginning as the 547/1 4 Cam Carrera engine was the first to utilize an Intermediate Shaft to actuate the valve train. Every single Mezger based aircooled flat 6 also had an IMS, and that extends right through 2013 in the GT3 and Turbo engines. There's nothing wrong with an IMS, in fact we feel the engine needs one to slow the surface speed of timing chains, and that clearly evident in the 9a1 engines that we've been developing some 2010 that are seeing issues because they do NOT incorporate an IMS. Yep. Thats because it operates exactly like the GT3 and Turbo engines and the technology dates all the way back to 1955. Thats why I invented it; because its always worked and until the factory fitted a deep groove ball bearing, the world had no idea what in the hell an "IMS Bearing Failure" was.

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I'm confused on the logic here. So basically you can go one way but not the other(use 750 tool to install any retrofit but you can't use previous IMS tool to install the double row)? Also the IMS opening is the same so whether you fab your own tool or use the "medieval" pounding method, one could still technically install this. Doesn't mean it's the right thing to do but since you now have distributors, I'm not sure if you can control who buys these and the methods they may use to the unsuspecting customer. That's why I said if I were having the pro version done, I'd at least want to see this tool in person. Either way if your looking to spend that kind of coin on the pro version, it's probably best to go with the certified installer.

Thats right, because ALL OTHER IMS retrofits utilize an EXTERNAL snap ring to secure the bearing into the housing, while the Single Row Pro utilizes an INTERNAL wire lock for bearing retention. This is required to allow enough physical space to fit two rows of deep groove ball bearings into the same physical confine conventionally occupied by a single row of bearings. Ok, so how are you going to install the internal wire lock, compress it, and deliver it into the shaft while ensuring the bearing is installed straight and at the proper depth? No, if it was easy it would have been done years ago and by more than one person. We can't control who buys them, but we can know where they end up and we can control how Certified Installers carry out the processes. Anyone who attempts to do this as a DIY assumes a role that they shouldn't, and we make this very clear. No support is offered. Why? You obviously already have all the answers, so why isn't your name on the Patent application rather than mine? Not meaning to be a smart *** here, but this has taken years to develop from a component and tooling standpoint, and it hasn't been simple, easy or cheap to do. Yes, we go above and beyond to ensure these jobs are done with the exact same procedures that we have developed and that we employ under our roof. The biggest issue is pre-qualification of engines for the retrofit procedure. Thats what shops are not doing and even one Certified Installer didn't do this, and because of that the Certification was revoked immediately. Our reputation and the reputation of every product we have developed is in the hands of those that we Certify, the margin of error is zero and one mistake leads to immediate revocation, with no possibility of explanation (aka excuse). Certified Installers have a lot to lose if they screw up, and thats who you want to carry out a retrofit, someone who has a lot to lose. Too many shops are treating IMSB Retrofits like brake jobs by watching the clock and trying to do the jobs faster. When a shop calls me and says "How quick can I do this?" they immediately guarantee themselves to never receive an invitation to become a Certified Installer. You'll not find a single clock in any area of my 30,000 square foot facility.

I understand your passion but sometimes, I think you need to step back and take a breath. We are all just trying to learn and I'm not accusing you of anything here. I don't think anyone here is criticizing the product or the tool neither. Would you explain to us curious minds on how this tool installs the internal wire lock? I'm just genuinely curious as I'm trying to form a mental picture, that's all and nothing more. I just don't want you to think we're all trying to beat you down as that's sometimes how you respond.

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This is not accurate. It has a moving part, the intermediate shaft and this bearing, just like a connecting rod or a main bearing will wear out over time. If designed and manufactured correctly, and the oil feed doesn't fail, it should last.

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I am very intense. This work is all I do, all day, everyday and most nights, too. This isn't a job, its a lifestyle and its hard won. The passion is intensity and getting the job done before anyone else, better than anyone else and continually making everything better. I think so. People are stating that we have created a component that requires an expensive tool to install, and inferring that tool is not needed. Thats because they are vendor haters that don't want anyone to make a dollar off their precious Porsche, and because they don't know, what they don't know. They haven't ever touched something, yet they know everything about it, and more than the guy that developed it. Yeah, that gets old quick and thats one reason why we stopped making these things easily accessible to the DIY public. What, I thought you already knew? After all, you were going to install it without a tool. Learn? Hell, I thought you'd be taking over my Instructor duties in the M96 classes this year. Since a tool isn't needed, how were you going to install that internally locked bearing into the IMSB housing? Yep, I get beat down daily and challenged, and told how to do things by people who don't even change their own damn oil. Thats why I stopped answering the phone. I respond in the manner I do because I only believe in direct dialogue, no BS, no sugar coating and no telling people what they want to hear. I love being developer, I hate the rest of it. Who knows what this means when found on boxes filled with German automotive parts? It speaks volumes.

I'm sorry but you are being an @ss here and very unprofessional. Nowhere did I say I knew everything nor did I say I was going to install this(let alone without a tool). You are making more of it than it is. I just said there could be people trying to install this without the tool. You've clarified that the pro version uses an internal snap ring and I just asked for an explanation before you going on a tirade. Great way to portray yourself.

If I was concerned about image I'd not even be on these forums. I am only concerned with ensuring the information is being spread accurately. If I want here, it wouldn't be- You stepped in and stated that a tool wasn't needed and I challenged you to tell me why, now it's my fault. That's ok, I am used to that. Everyone is an expert, even the ones that can't work their way out of a cardboard box with a sledge hammer.

^^^ Do not sell to nudists?

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Only to nudists with wrenches :-)

I said it was "my understanding" in which you clarified that my understanding was wrong and so I asked for clarification on the internal snap ring which you still haven't answered, yet continue to bash people for asking questions. You can still continue ensuring accurate info while being polite and conducting yourself in a professional manner.

Point taken. Now, have you viewed the product launch video for the SRPRO and faultless tool? The installation method is summarized there well. The day I walked into charm school the place mysteriously burned down.. :-) Have a good weekend, fellas.

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I was actually excited to see this in your newsletter but other than that, I wasn't able to find too much other info on it via your site. Is there a link for this video somewhere? If this is only a private video for your students, I fully understand and will just have to wonder about it. Well if it means anything, I'm glad you have knowledge where it counts and not in charm school.

See www.imsretrofit.com My site doesn't hold any of the info on purpose. I am considering shutting the site down.

Jake, I'm just glad that we have a person like you who are passionate about Porsche engine, while actual manufacturer of the engine, Porsche is just playing dumb. I've never looked back at 996 Carrera since reading about the faulty IMS, I started to hunt for 996 Carrera once again only after informed about your IMS replacement solution.

Thats a great compliment and I appreciate it very much. Solving these problems is very rewarding in many ways. I've never had so much fun working with engines before, probably because of the extreme difficulty that we face at this level. I have much, much more up my sleeve. The next IMS related development is being done just to prove how far I can go. It would cost too much to ever apply to engines, so I am only developing and patenting it, to prove a point to those who have chosen to ride on our coat tails and try to play this game. Only one exists and its going to reside in my Wife's next Land Speed 996. If looking for a 996 or Cayman, email me as I have a dozen broken ones that can be built up however you'd like.

Let's see... 1. OP with low post count asks general question about IMSB 2. JR responds with usual reply re-reaffirming his company's command of the product and process 3. JR's response raises questions from other posters 4. JR takes offense to his products/process being questioned and chooses to belittle the poster of the questions while simultaneously promoting his company. 5. There is a required mention of "vendor haters" 6. Uses the opportunity to promote a future product/service 7. Ultimately ends with a mention of "X" number of cars from "X" number of states and "X" number of modes of catastrophic failure. Yeah...Feels like Groundhog Day...again.

But it wouldn't be complete without you.

True.

I can't believe it took you so long to show up. Kind of disappointing. :-)

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Speaking of showing up, has anyone heard from KrazyK? Someone needs to check his garage and make sure he didn't drown while topping off the halogen fluid in his headlights

Jake, From what I can see, the install tool sort of acts in a similiar manner as piston install tools that compress the ring until driven into the bore. Is that correct? Also does the Pro version have any specified or recommended change interval like the non-pro version?

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Actually IIRC, he got fed up and threw in the towel and asked Marc to deactivate his membership and account. Now go get your box of tissues...

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Really? I just figured he got another 2 week ban for posting nipples on the IHI Thread.

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I just found the post: https://rennlist.com/forums/11056364-post243.html

I think KrazyK is posting over at renn tech now

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I think that could be a better place for him as long as he sticks with DIY and keep the fear promotion to himself.

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Somewhat. The internal wire lock has heavy ring tension, much more than what a piston ring would have. It must be loaded into the compressor, then the compressor loaded into the tool, so it can be mechanically delivered into the shaft. All service life information is posted at www.imsretrofit.com All ball bearings will have a service life, the more load carrying capacity they have, the longer the service life. Only one technology is rated for the lifetime of the engine and thats the IMS Solution. My "other" development is also lifetime, but the life of that engine is measured in minutes as its so far on the edge in every way.

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I jumped off that oil thread. Bummer. KK's posts were interesting to say the least. Bottom line is we drive very cool, very fun and very satisfying used cars. If they break, we fix them. If you worry excessively about them breaking, well, trade it in for a Honda. I was out for a drive this morning. Top down (awesome weather here in AZ) and the sweet sound of the Flat 6 with Fister D's is amazing. Like a great sunset, you can't take it for granted Happy trails.

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Yeah that's the way the video showed it. I guess I meant the technique is similiar in the fact that you have to compress that ring to get it in the bore. How would one go about extracting it though? This I can't really think of how it would be done. So what I read on the intervals is 4yrs or 50k for regular retrofit vs 6yrs or 75k. I guess OP can use this to factor in his decision. Important to note now that these have been established as a wear item, those intervals are based on using the LNE spin on oil filter and JG DT40 oil on a 6 month/5k mile OCI'S. I know a lot of people that have these retrofits do not use that specific oil or subscribe to that particular OCI'S schedule. In this case there are no recommendations give for a service interval so I guess you need to figure that out based on your comfort/risk level. Also I noticed the retrofit bearings are now specific to LNE and have their own markings. Can anyone clarify if this was always the case or recent change?

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It's good to have various characters/personalities on here to keep it interesting. I mean if you are going rehash out the same $hit every time, might as well at least change out the characters with different personalities to keep things interesting on these boards.

They were added in 2013 after all the copy cats arrived. We got tired of them sourcing our bearings from a major distributor, adding them to some hokey kit and then selling them as their own. Now everything has to be marked like this, even the tools, because they were doing the same thing. When you winder why things cost more money to purchase, just thank all the copy cats. They are the ones that make us Patent everything, Trademark everything and now engrave everything. 2013 was the year of the copycat, and now 2014 is even proving to be worse.

Jake How do those of us on the other side of the pond go about getting the solution fitted? As far as I am aware there are no UK based certified installers. There are one or two suppliers (Hartech) that offer the retrofit bearing - again, not sure if these are classified as "certified installers" or just operators that purchase the kits online and then offer to install them.

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+1 for Tokyo

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Our system for certifying installers doesn't work for overseas installers. This is because we are not easily able to interface with them in classes and select some to invite into the program. From day one the IMS Solution has been installed worldwide, all the way thorough the orient and into Australia and Europe. Until some potential installers are ready to make the trip to become trained and evaluated, they can't become certified. It's not about making these parts available to anyone anywhere, it's about ensuring the jobs are done correctly and applied to healthy engines only.

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Yes but who installs them??? I fully understand your ethos - all I want to know is how I can get your product installed on my car in the UK.

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