Help - GT3 or C4S?

Folks, I am on the brink of putting a deposit on a GT3 but have been having some doubts because of my future use of the vehicle, and whether a C4S would be more appropriate for me. I would appreciate some advice from those that know both vehicles. I currently have a '00 M5. I love it, but the time has come to move on and I have always coveted porsche. I need to drive the car everyday to my office (20 miles each way). I live in florida so the roads are generally smooth as glass and the weather if good all year round. Initially I had my mind set on a C4S, particularly in light of the discounts that are available now, the rave reviews, and the all-roundness of the vehicle. Unfortunately, I then learned that the GT3 will be coming to the states and now I am torn. On one hand I want a real sports car experience from the porsche, on the other I don't know whether the GT3 would make for a daily driver. It does seem to have the necessary creature comforts, but would I be better off with a less expensive C4S on which I will put pretty heavy mileage on (at least 10k a year)? Any advice is appreciated, particularly from those that have experience in the prior GT3 which should be quite similar in usability to the current one. best regards gmm

There was a good interview in one of the British car mags recently about the GT3, either Evo or Car. I don't have it in front of me but I do remember a Porsche offical as commenting that the C4S is the ultimate Carrera for the typical Porsche buyer. He went on to say that there are very few buyers who have the skill and experience to utilize the capabilities of the GT3. From what you described, the C4S would be the better choice IMHO. You can get the Bose stereo, full memory and heated seats, Nav, etc. All the little goodies that will make the car an enjoyable commuter that can still be taken to the track if you desire. It also enjoys better ground clearance, so you won't have to worry about scraping your front air dam on some of those drainage ditches that pass for curbs in FL. The GT3 is harder to drive and offers no aids such as TC or PSM to deal with the rain or other bad weather conditions. It sits much lowers and has a much firmer ride. It offers no amenities beyond AC and a basic radio/single CD player. It is really a track car that can be driven on the street. If you can find a copy of the British magazine "Car", it does a good job of reviewing the GT3 and describing its attributes and downsides. You may want to give it a read. I found a copy at Barnes and Noble. Karl

Great response, Karl. I was trying to formulate a reply, when I realized I couldn't say it any better than you did. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

Yup. I agree.

Under many less than perfect conditions the C4S is gonna be the better weapon, like on wet bumpy country back roads.

I think you can have the best of both worlds. Buy the GT3, it should be a fantastic car. Drive it for a while and if you don't like it as a commuter car you can easily sell it. The GT2 can be used as commuter and talk about how stiff it is overblown, so I think the GT3 will follow suit. The depreciation on the GT3 should be small, if any, and by that time there will be complete information about the new 997. Then you can consider whether to do the "old" style or "new" style, or stay "stylin' "in the GT3. How can you lose?

Dad just bought a GT2. He loved the more "raw" feeling it had when compared to the other models. He could care less about the 460 hp, but at the time it was the only car that to him "felt like a porsche". I think the GT3 will be one heck of a car.....but.....if you are interested in creature comforts, and taking advantage of the refinments that porsche has added to the 996, stick with the C4S. Having driven exstensively both the 996 C4 and the GT2, I would get the GT3 hands down (just basing that off the more engaging drive experience of the GT2).

If you want my opinion, I'd go for a C2 and a Mini Cooper S <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by paul s uk: <strong>If you want my opinion, I'd go for a C2 and a Mini Cooper S <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> Let's not carried away. I drove a Cooper S last week and thought it was awful at normal speeds. There is real slackness in the tranny, the steering is wooden and there is surging when shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear. Yes it feels a little like a very large gokart but lacks power and to be honest I wasn't impressed. More like deeply depressed. Anyone who prefers the Mini over the difference between a C2 and the GT3 has got to be insane. Not meaning to take this thread totally OT but why do you like it so much? p.s. oh yeah, and it has that 'whining cocker spaniel' sound coming from the supercharger most of the time too. (Actually, thinking about it - the owner recently purchased a 996 in addition to the Mini which to me also has the same whine. Blimey, maybe it's a virus??!)

Thanks for your input Christer but I did wink! If you remember GMolinari is trying to make up his mind about the choice between two P-cars which, as Karl says, in many respects are fundamentally different and which are designed and made for different purposes. My sole point was to say that, perhaps, GMM would benefit from two cars. Actually I have never driven the Cooper S but two guys I trust have just had theirs re-chipped and they tell me the difference is phenomenal. Insane maybe. Wrong never!

interestingly, I did have a mini cooper s but recently sold it. It is a good, fun, drive although I did not have any mods on it. It would have made for a good day-to-day drive in addition to the more hardcore sports car. The mini was sold to get the wife an x5 4.4. Good vehicle but guzzles gas ...

I would personally go for the GT3. Oh wait, I am getting a GT3 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> If you look at the history of its predecessors, such as the RS America, the 3.8RS (993 variant in europe) and of course the old RSR, the naturally aspirated race bred Carreras lose very little of their value and they are almost always coveted by hardcore enthusiasts. There is no doubt in my mind that if depreciation is a factor, you will fare worse in a C4S. If you are looking for comfort for daily driving and want pure speed, buy an SL 55. If you want a car that you want to track and carve canyons with, get the GT3. If you are interested in getting a GT3, perhaps we should start a small group buy. I'm not kidding. Two dealers that I have talked to are willing to give a discount if we can come in with say, 3 orders or more!

Hamann, I've been watching the delivery issue pretty closely, since I'm on the list. A while ago someone (thanks, but I can't remember who to give them all the credit) posted a letter from Porsche dated around Feb 28 03, outlining the schedule...each dealer to get approx. one prior to the summer shut down and then quantity to be produced and allocations to be determined. There may be small variations in this due to size etc. Therefore I don't understand how your "guy" can be offering group discounts. Is he maintaining a list or is he going to sell to the "highest bidder"?. If he is maintaining a list how many on it?. Do you have new updated information?, the previous post has proven pretty reliable so far. I'm #6 on my dealer's list and if there are at least 450 built, I'm confident I will get a car. But, I could easily be talked into a group buy, and if you have additional insights or corrections to the above perceptions please advise .

40 miles per day on smooth roads, what about a used Turbo? Even more power plus a full interior and some rubber in the suspension. Unless there are some really great corners in that drive, then the GT-3 compromises would be justified twice every day.

Get the GT3. After GT2, It's the ultimate 996 and is what all the 996 Porsche should be. True drivers car. If you need lot of comport, fuzzy stereos, cupholders & stuff, get the MB or something like that. There will be minimal to no depriciation, like someone mentioned so you can sell it & trade it to C4S if you can't take it but remember, if any 996 is a keeper like 1973 RS, 964 RS, 993 RS, this (and GT2) is one to keep. 20 years from now, GT3 (if kept in good condition) will propably sell more than what you paid when new, C4S (while higher on 996 ranks also), mosty likely, will not. Have you seen the prices of 1973 RS'?

Colm- I'm curious how you think you'll get a car if 450 are built. There are approx. 200 US Porsche dealers. If each get on average two cars (that is, well you can do the math). Unless there are double the cars you think (or your dealer is the largest volume dealer, which I thought was Champion in Fl.), how do you get a car as #6? I ask, because I'm still trying to "devine" what US production will be on the GT3.

If you haven't put a deposit down on the GT3 yet, it's probably too late. I think the first run is spoken for, I may be wrong. If a daily driver is what you're after get the C4S.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Colm: <strong> Therefore I don't understand how your "guy" can be offering group discounts. Is he maintaining a list or is he going to sell to the "highest bidder"?. If he is maintaining a list how many on it?. Do you have new updated information?, the previous post has proven pretty reliable so far. I'm #6 on my dealer's list and if there are at least 450 built, I'm confident I will get a car. But, I could easily be talked into a group buy, and if you have additional insights or corrections to the above perceptions please advise .</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Colm, After each dealer gets their initial allocation of 1 car in May, I have heard different things. Some say that there will be some cars being delivered in June/July, some say production will resume after the production break in August (which means we have to wait until fall!) Anyway, I am pretty sure that after each dealer gets their one car, the larger dealers will get larger allocation, period. Just like some dealers got several GT2's, and some got only 1 or 2. The dealer that I happen to be dealing with is one of THE largest in the country (after Champion), so I am quite sure they will get more cars than some dealer in Wyoming or Oregon. I am pretty sure that if you join in on this GB, you will be no worse than where you are now. Think about it, why wouldn't a dealership prioritize 3 consecutive orders over the rest? Do you know how hard it is to sell a Porsche nowadays? Even a GT2 has been sitting in their showroom collecting dust. They also have a no markup over MSRP policy. I think the GT3 is going to be worth the wait. It is even a purer 911 sports car than the GT2, which is hard to do, and almost as fast. Put some GT3-RS mods and you will have a faster track car than a GT2 and the vast majority of modded turbos.

The math is not so straightforward, not every dealer will get two cars. Possibly, there will be some who don't even get one (as alluded to earlier). It will all come down to dealer allocations, and at the number (450) described, I'm confident, based upon history I'm in. I do recognize that it mightn't work like I expect, and thus my curiosity about the group buy (a bird in the hand...). I'm in the same boat as everyone else wondering what the build quantity will be, and for how many years they will make it. If it is limited to 03/04 production years then I'd agree with Doug that "no deposit, no car" at this point, except I wouldn't opt for the C4S (previously rationalized).

Well, my dealer is willing to entertain a haircut off the MSRP in addition to being able to get the car. That's what I call leverage! Email me and we can discuss further. [email removed]