Porsche quality

For several weeks I've been sitting back and reading, now I must ask...what is up with Quality Control at Porsche? I realize a few things: 1. People post problems and questions, so increased focus. 2. Many of you are immensely **** about maintenance, etc. (not a bad thing) 3. Hard suspension and hard driving would lead to increased creaks and problems. With that said, I'd like to compare my 360,000 mile Honda Accord to many of the problems I see here. (BTW, I drive it as hard as one could imagine)... My Honda has never had a problem that was beyond normal wear and tear! I still have the original clutch and no work needed on the engine. Can anyone claim that with a Porsche, esp. 996 that has over even 50,000 miles? I have a C4S on order and I am continually concerned about the nightmare that I may be buying. Porsches have been in my family for over 30 years....but never a 996. Aside from those that get offended by this, can some objective responders sooth my worry about buying a money pit. Thanks

Nope. it is not for you. don't buy one.

hahahhahah enough said.

A 360,000 clutch life does not in any way denote "hard driving". The LS400 is one of the very best and most reliable vehicles on the road today, but it is far from perfect. Check it out at edmunds town hall. Porsche did win the 24 hours of Daytona this year you know.

You will probably be happier with an S2000. If I had to do it all over again, I'd LEASE a barely used 996 for 3 years, do DE's all day long with it. Turn it in after 3 years and get an S2000. That way, I get the Porsche fever out of the way (don't know if that is a realistic statement), and get a reasonably reliable car like my 91 Acura Legend: an S2000. Thej probelms with getting a car other than a Porsche is just that. It's not a Porsche. So the best thing is for you to get in a situation where the amount of $$$ you will ever spend on the car is finite, as in a lease. Maybe the saddest day will be the day you turn it in. Just my 2 cents. I sound like my dad. Now THAT's scary..........

Porsches in the "family"..... A 78 Targa purchased with 37k in 83. 95k now. An 88 911 special edition purchased w/55k in about 94. 78k now A 79 Targa with purchased 98 w/76k. Now 93k. A 78 Targa purchased in 98 w/234k. A 99 C2 purchased spring of 01 w/17k. 27k now. An 01 C4 purchased new, 11k now. The 99 needed to have the engine seal replaced (at no charge) due to a factory manufacturing defect, otherwise the 996s have only had scheduled maintenance. The first 78 (likely both, and the 79) needed to have its exploded clutch replaced and pressure fed chain tensioners installed. The 79 needed the alternator rebuilt. Had to repalce the clutch in the 88. Lot's of (S)miles at very little expense.

Instead of ordering a new C4S, maybe you should buy a good low mileage example of whatever Porsche you desire. Then if you do encounter any problems, just use a tiny fraction of the cash you saved to fix it. 996 and 986 values (like all used car values) have massively depreciated in the past 12 months. Why pay a premium for new when you can get a "like new" example and save thousands? I bought my 986S new in 2000 and paid a premium. Overall build quality has been fine. But it is doubtful I will buy a new Porsche again, simply because there are so many immaculate pre-owned examples out there.

I don't think P quality is on the level of Honda or most Japanese makes, however, I would not call them "moneypits" either. Other than a trans problem (repaced under warranty), I have not had "major" problems, just minor stuff on the three 996s I have owned. My 02 is better than my 00, they seem to be working the bugs out. Roy

My 1988 Honda Prelude went to 90,000 miles before I sold it. It still had the original set of tires!!! Bald, but original. It was on it's second battery, but otherwise everything was what it had when I first drove it out of the dealership. Now that's longevity. If this is your primary concern, then get another Honda. The S2000 is excellent. My C4S at 10,000 miles is already well on it's way through its second set of tires. And not cheap tires at that!!

Going from a 360k Honda Accord to a new C4S, wow that's a step up. I concur with Mr. West 360k on a clutch is certainly not hard driving. Porsches in my family - 76 912 85k nothing major - had to be repainted after it was stolen 79 928 sold at 45k nothing major 82 Targa sold at 73k chain tensioners, ground strap. 84 911 new syncros from a valet incident 86 - Turbo body Cab 45k nothing 01 TT 19k nothing 01 C4 Cab 9k nothing You'll find that for those folks who did have major problems PCNA was stand up and treated them very well. I've heard of several folks who have even had work done for free that was out of warranty.

Hey P-Zen...do you have the original tires as well as the clutch? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

hard driving considering i have been squeelling the tires on takes off for 12 years, but i guess compared to Walter Rohl, no, not hard driving. i've dreamed of my first porsche since 1969 when my brother bought a 912 and blooded my 6 year old nose for touching the paint after he waxed it. i learned to drive in a 356 and have settled for vw and honda ever since...i dream of my porsche daily and driving it for life as a daily driver, but cringe at some of the stuff i read. moneys not an issue, principle is the issue. i believe porsche has no excuse to not make better quality...and that's only based upon the dozens upon dozens of complaints i'm reading on this forum. only if porsche didn't exist, would i consider the S2000...

I was sooo close to getting the s2000. I've had lots of hondas including a '94 nsx. True, gas and oil is all they require, but....it's not a p-car. Just like all those motorcycles you buy..until you own a Harley you'll never really know that feeling. Well it's just like that with Porsche. It's as if your done. You've accomplished it. You don't to keep it long time, but you've accomplished what you've wanted since you were a kid. I agree with the others on the used market. My '00 c4 cab, with ALL options available and only 7955 miles was purchased, 1/16/03, for right at 59k. Yup...it's not held together as well as my Honda's but it's a feeling, it's a brotherhood... Plus it's rich in heritage beyond Honda. My 2 cents...go used. There are great deals out there... Phattey...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by P-Zen: <strong>... My Honda has never had a problem that was beyond normal wear and tear. ...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">P-Zen, I've personally had many MORE problems with my 01-Honda Accord than my 01-996. {major problems with the Honda transmission} BUT, I don't think that means anything about either car because it's a sample size of 1! Let's face it ... this chat board isn't a good sample of the general Porsche population either. The latest issue of Consumer Reports didn't rate the 996's reliability histories, but it did rate the 2000 Boxster better than average and the 2001 Boxster average. BTW, all years of the Honda Accord received better than average ratings.

porsche vs harley?? naaaaa...... porsche vs gsxr1000 yeaaaaaahhhh!! waz

P-Zen, I serviced my car only TWICE since new in a three year period, no issues at all except for a small tranny problem that the dealer has fixed under warranty... my car had a total mileage of 15k.. i drove hard all the time.. i also did a pre-sale inspection for the guy that bought my car, car was in good condition. 996 is a very reliable car.. it may seem like a lot of problem when you're viewing this site.. but you need to consider this, this is the biggest porsche forum, and there are MANY 996 around.. from my experience with this site, i do not recall seeing many repeated problems, the only major issue that ever really concerned my was the tranny, but most problems were from 99 to 01... If money is not an issue.. buy it and ENJOY IT, cuz i sure did

Also, when i did the inspection, the car has NOT been serviced for a year (not even oil change).. the work was done by Weissach

P Zen, Honestly, if you're that worried about the Porsche then get something else.

I'm confused, a honda is a great car but squeelling the tires for 12 years in a honda, time to grow up.

DJ996, not "that worried about the Porsche" just trying to get a true perspective as some of the posters are aware of and adding good insight from the troubleless side of the forum. SkyMast...when a honda is what you have, i see no reason to drive other than what i enjoy. the car doesn't make the driver. i have chosen to drive the honda for years so that i can buy my porsche at 39 years of age and retire at the same time. choices...far from any confusion on my part. i truly appreciate the input from most of you. true, i realized i was hearing the complaints more than the favorable reliability votes.

P-Zen, ever drive a 993? I think you'd be impressed with the reliability and build quality.

Hey P-zen, if you don't appreciate a P-car for its value as a unique and special experience, then why not just get the S2000, or even the 350z. Hell, you can get one of each, then you never have to worry about reliability, you'll always having at least one running...maybe one of them can go 350k miles on one clutch too!

P-Zen, About that original clutch... You're perhaps the only person I know of who has gone further on one clutch than I have. My '83 Saab Turbo has done 265,000 miles so far, and the clutch is original (all the miles are mine). I, too, drive the car hard, and anyone who knows me will attest to that. Obviously, many of the miles are highway, but many are city street and back road miles. I have also occasionally towed a Boston Whaler and two snowmobiles with that same clutch. I think Porsche quality has slipped since the 993, but I still say buy the Porsche and love it.

P-Zen: I wouldn't worry about it. I've had a few minor problems that needed to be fixed, but nothing major. It's a small price to pay for the big dumb grin you'll have on your face everytime you drive it. <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> Or you could lease it for 4 years and not worry about the cost of fixing anything that goes wrong.

Well, If we detuned the porsche 3.4 litter engine to, lets say, 210 HP, Put Tall gearing in, no torque, Skinny, slipery tires that wont hold the road in the dry or wet, or get an motocyle engine that winds to 12k RPM but produces no power until 10k and use it to drive a boxter look alike, the car would last a while longer. Maybe we all need Honda's. Gimme a break, My P-car is a SPORTS CAR. I dont know about you guys but I beat the crap out of mine. If I could drive a Honda with the same results as I get with my 996, It wouldnt last 2 months.

You guys are insanely spoiled. First off, if you can afford a $100,000 car, why do you worry about maintenance? I'm "blessed" with an 86 951, and I've never touched anything vehicularly mechanical in my life, until I got the car. Now I've got the whole bottom end of the car out, while I'm waiting for new arms and motor mounts. Talk about upkeep nightmare - But I'm doing it! Because I love the car, and I can't afford Weissach (Hi SpectraG!) or SCAN (local shops) to be doing service at $70 / hour. So, you guys that can afford a C4S or turbo, are lucky!!! Don't worry about maintenance, It's part of owning a Porsche - Just be happy you can afford to have a shop do it, and don't have to work on it yourself!!!!! (like me)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Tom 919: <strong>Well, If we detuned the porsche 3.4 litter engine to, lets say, 210 HP, Put Tall gearing in, no torque, Skinny, slipery tires that wont hold the road in the dry or wet, or get an motocyle engine that winds to 12k RPM but produces no power until 10k and use it to drive a boxter look alike, the car would last a while longer. Maybe we all need Honda's. Gimme a break, My P-car is a SPORTS CAR. I dont know about you guys but I beat the crap out of mine. If I could drive a Honda with the same results as I get with my 996, It wouldnt last 2 months.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">What the hell are you talking about??? You're one of those exotic car morons that think they have the best car because it cost an xxx,xxx amount of dollars to buy and maintain. You're a disgrace to the Porsche community. You're just talking out of your *** about the S2000 or ANY car for that matter. The S2000 has 4.10:1 gearing which is very short in order to keep it in its powerband you moron. Porsche already has a detuned version of its 996 engine in the 986 Boxster's you moron. Torque has a direct correlation with HP at any given RPM, so you have to give up one in order to get the other unless you have a slower revving, large displacement engine or FI you moron. Look at the Ferrari 348/355/360's V8'S or BMW's S52E/S54 engines, they all make very little torque compared to their HP ratings you moron. The S2000's Bridgestone S02 tires are considered the BEST street legal tires offered on a car from the factory and came from the Porsche factory standard on certain 993's you moron. The S2000 engine makes 240hp@8300 RPM you moron. Plus if you don't like high revving cars then the upcoming Porsche 996 GT3 making 380hp@8200 RPM must suck you moron. STOP TALKING ABOUT CARS YOU HAVE NO CLUE ON. Ok, I'm getting off my <img border="0" alt="[soapbox]" title="" src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" />

bmw_e30, <img border="0" alt="[nono]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" /> There is no need for such a raging and insulting post. If you disagree with Tom, just say so. Your offensive ranting has no place on this board.

A little plug for Acura quality. I had, until it was stolen this past December, an Acura Integra Type R I bought new in 1998. It's engine made 195 hp at 8000 rpm from 1.8 liters. I only drove it only 25000 miles but there was not a day I drove it that it didn't see over 8000 rpm. There was never a single problem with it other than a windshied washer nozzle that was plugged with dirt and fixed under warrantee. I just changed the oil and drove it. None of my Porsche's have matched that Acura's reliability. <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

I liked the "offensive ranting", it was very funny. Besides, he was right.

I have had my share of maintenance problems on my 01 996 cab but I deal with it because driving a P-car is a great experience. I hated driving until I got a P-car. I could not stand being stuck in traffic, bad drivers, slow drivers, etc. Now I can't wait to get on the road in my P-car and find errands to do just to go out! A Porsche is like a trophy wife. It (may) require(s) more maintenance but you get the thrill of it everyday. One offsets the other in my opinion! If you do not see it that way, you should not get a Porsche as something may go wrong. It is not infallible but PCNA does seem to stand by their product.

It's hard not to give Honda its earned respect for quality and value. I just bought my daughter the 2dr hatch ( ?Civic si or something like that) and was impressed with the content and performance compared to price. It seems to do most of what my old 1980 SC did, at a fraction of the price and with minimal upkeep expense. Can't really compare it to a 996 or my current ttx50 in any way except to say it does represent greater value. The entire car cost what my X50 option cost. The problem is you can't duplicate the Porsche for less, and we accept the compromises as part of the charm or mystique. It's not sensible, it's emotional, and that's where Porsche has it all over Hondas and almost everything else. Life ( and particularly youth) is short. May as well enjoy it. AS

My 1994 4runner has 165K miles on its original clutch and that is all freeway stop and go traffic in LA. Reliability is a hit or miss proposition with any ONE particular vehicle as alot has to do with workmanship off the line, original parts within certain specs, maintenance, driving habits and LUCK. On the other hand, certain marquees have certainly earned a great reliability rep with Toyota/Lexus and Honda/Acura right up near the top. I have been lucky that all the cars I have owned have been relatively trouble free and that goes for my p-cars as well. However, keep in mind that a new clutch on your p-car will cost you more coin, much more than a Honda. In fact, I can get an oil change for $8 for my 4runner but can't even get the 12 quarts of oil for my p-car for less than 4 times that amount! If quality is so important to you, get a well sorted out 993 C4S AND an S2000.

Wow. This thread seems to have hit a nerve. It has everything. Plugs for whoever's favorite reliability marque, defense for the Porsche, a 993 vs 996 testament, even an uncouth rant by a bimmer lover (it was correct, in poor taste, but funny ). Lets see..... I think I'll pick a fight with the 993 guys. The 993 dinosaur is a piece of.... Ooops. Mother-in-law at the door. I'll pick a fight with her first, then you 993 guys. C-ya.

At least we both prefer our P-cars with big a$$e$!

I have a 95 993 Cabriolet with approx. 43,000 miles on it, 18000 miles when I bought it 2 1/2 years ago. I also have a 96 Honda Accord bought new with approx. 120,000 miles on it. I definitely drive both cars hard, ie. regularly close to red-lining, cornering hard etc.. I pretty frequently neglect maintenance on the Honda other than major maintenances and oil change when the car tells me to change it. I just went 35 - 40K miles w/o maintenance before taking my Honda to the dealer and it came out with flying colors. I wonder what would happen to my Porsche if I did that? Conversely I am extremely religious about oil change intervals and maintenance periods on the Porsche. I have had one $25 dollar part fail on the Honda no matter how much abuse I give it. The Porsche on the other hand has had a variety of electrical and mechanical parts fail, though most of it happened in the first year of ownership. I have to admit that there are times I have wondered about the maintenance costs/reliability of my Porsche. On the other hand all it takes me is half an hour in the Porsche with the top down listening to the engine to realize why I bought the car in the first place. I still love my Porsche regardless of the problems I've had but to slam someone on this board because of valid concerns he/she may have over quality/reliability issues is in my opinion extremely immature. To most people on this board buying a Porsche is a huge financial out-lay, and to tell them "Just go buy that XXXX car" does an injustice to a valid question being posed.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by RWO: <strong>I liked the "offensive ranting", it was very funny. Besides, he was right.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Looks like I got a few supporters. I was harsh on him, but that really set me off for some reason. People should respect ALL sports cars. It doesn't matter if they come from Masarati or Lotus or Porsche or even gasp Honda. The fact is that good cars come from all different places. As a BMW/Porsche/Honda owner I appreciate all my cars for their unique abilities. But I will say this. I like cars with passion. And my BMW's have loads of it as does my 98' Boxster. But the Honda S2000 carries that passion for its owner belive it or not. The guy that buys that car finds something in it that he finds appealing to him or her. Much like Porsche owners like that wonderful intake noise coming from their p-cars or the great steering inputs or its powerful brakes. The guy in the Lotus Elise likes its M/R layout and its lightweight. And the guy in the Ferrari 360 likes the wail of a N/A V8 engine behind him screaming at its lungs to its 8000 RPM song, much like a bigger S2000 engine might I add <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Porsche's do have a lot of passion and chrisma. And that's why we spend our time fixing them and paying up the *** for Castrol 10w-60 oil, 300.00 a tire and other expensive things. Its because ANY high performence car require that sort of commitment. Be it BMW M cars or old Porsche 911's or even Honda's NSX requires very expensive parts to maintain right. Just drive what floats your boat. And don't forget the famous German saying:" Make sure your ******* is big enough before you ****."