Testing oil aeration

Oil is the lifeblood of the engine and just like our own blood, air in the blood-stream is bad..... Much has been said about aerated oil but not much has been done, and even less has been reported or head to head tested or even parameters given... The more I know about aeration the more questions I have, and the more I research for the answers, the more I find the answers are not there...Questions like .. 1. Which base oil group I II II IV or V produces the least aeration? 2. Which defoamers works best? 3. Which oils use these defoamers? 4. What additive package works best with these defoamers? 5 What effect does the Silicone from the silicone sealers make on aeration? A lot of talk and investigation went into the aeration problem on the Power Stroke Diesel when the silicone leached out of the oil pan sealant and was causing the injectors to misfire to the point that the engine would almost stop running...The injectors on the Power Stroke Diesel engine uses engine oil as a hydraulic fluid for fast action of the injectors, and when the temperature got high enough and enough silicone had leached out of the fresh oil pan sealant, the engine oil would become so aerated that it would be spongy and the injectors would almost stop working...Well, if you think about it, when the oil has gotten that bad, the bearings are not being protected either. Lucky the Power Stroke doesn't turn up that many RPMS like the M96 does or it would have surely failed from this...That brings on the question, is the silicone we use on the M96 leaching into the oil and causing aeration? I wanted to see if I could come up with some kind of informal test that actually show the differences to the point I could satisfy my own curiosity and answer my own questions since I can't find the answers.. Below is a test that shows an unexpected result that is counter-intuitive. The used oil with very little contamination show extremely high aeration, whereas the same oil that is highly contaminated show very low aeration.. Here are some tests I ran on some used oil Mobil 1 5w50 that I had saved from my car years ago.I used to save it for my lawn-mower to use...lol..but my Son cuts it now with his new Zero-turn.. I heated the oil up to 250-260F using a 'hot plate" then put a 10kRPM wisk in it to aerate it...to see how much it would aerate and how fast the aeration for dissipate.. I tried a couple of samples that I assume was lightly contaminated, but looks like one was highly contaminated, or was highly aerating for some unknown reason...( I did drop a little silicone rubber in there). It looks like it will be a viable test method for my purpose... It's pretty well understood that full synthetics produce less areation than dino oils...I think..I'm going to find out...... You Tube You Tube You Tube You Tube Here are 9 Race Oils I am interested in to see if there is any difference in them in aeration from new heated to 250-260F., then i may leach a little silicone gasket material in there to see if things change... 9 different Racing oils I'm interested in testing Stay Tuned !!!

Wow! No easy task you've taken on. Very interested to see what you find. I would bet that all the data on how the additives(or contaminants) work is held quite closely as trade secrets, Opening up this box is likely to create a lively discussion. Good luck with your work!

IIRR, From my limited knowledge on oil engineering,,, think you might find the racing oils have less aeration/foaming. They use (none in some cases ) lots less detergents and or anionic surfactants. These additives are (the main culprits) what tends to help an oil get aerated or foamed easier. Your creative designed oil sump system might help to prevent the pump from cavitation and creating aerated/burned/foamed oil. But its my understanding a hypoid gear oil pump does not compress/pressurize air well at all, its purpose is to pressurize oil that is not compressible(why we have hydraulics). Thats why a slug of air in the pump will not maintain oil pressure. But it will pull from the sump and prime the gears on the suction side of the pump, but again can not create air pressure of any significance... jmo

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It's my oil I bought, my test equipment, mine and my friends engines I am wanting to protect....not looking to start any wars...but if I find something that can be very detrimental I will certainly give my opinion on it and call it out.. But if all seems to be equal in these elementary tests, then there is nothing to report... I'm just looking for potential problems....and to answer my own questions...something as simple as a certain kind of "instant gasket maker " combined with a certain "oil package" could ruin a brand new engine with "air"......

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Gear pumps are volume pumps and when a gear pump moves a non-compressible fluid the resistance to movement stays the same..( pressure) ...but if the fluid being moved is compressible ( air/oil mix) the volume of fluid moved does not stay the same, it compresses, therefore the resistance to movement changes and pressure falls.. It's true that gear pumps do not pump air well due to leakage around the gears, but they can still pump a lot of air, especially air/oil mix... ^^^ Googled for longer more detailed answer:: "Yes, a gear pump can pump air, but it may not be the most efficient or suitable choice for this purpose. Gear pumps are primarily designed for pumping liquids, and their construction and operation are optimized for handling fluids rather than gases. When used to pump air, gear pumps may encounter certain challenges. One issue is that the clearances between the gears and the pump housing, which are crucial for sealing and creating pressure in liquid applications, may not be ideal for effectively moving air. Air is compressible, unlike liquids, so it may leak past the gears and reduce the efficiency of the pump. Additionally, the design and configuration of gear pumps may not be optimized for handling the low viscosity and low density of air. The gear teeth and housing may not provide sufficient sealing, leading to air leakage and reduced performance. In applications where air needs to be pumped, other types of pumps such as rotary vane pumps or centrifugal blowers are typically more suitable. These pumps are specifically designed to handle gases and can provide better efficiency and performance when pumping air." Yes I agree, I expect to see the Full Race OIls do better in aeration than street oils, and I have read that Esters in particular Phosphate Esters were the best at keeping from aerating....I want to see for myself...

I’d suggest adding Motul 300V to your samples.

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Yeah when I get done testing the ones I have picked out,I'll probably pickup a few more.. Any particular reason for suggesting the Motul 300V?

I'd also be interested to see Motul 300v added to the testing. I use it for any car that sees track time and it seems to be a pretty popular racing oil.

FWIW, the GM spec oil now required in pretty much all their cars, it specifically targeted to reduce foaming. https://www.gmdexos.com Its the result the of the highly stressed 4cyl engines they have been using, smaller displacement high rpm NA and Turbo versions. Failure to use the correct oil results in Timing chain, top end (Valve train) issues.. But their fail is the sillyness of still recommending overly large oil change intervals, 10K+ on oil even with good synthetics is still a fail in many engines. I could see the right blend bing a big improvement supporting our engines, most of the boutique oils actually don't meet the spec.. A the same time there are some super good quality products in use... Should see a balance as time goes on. If you have any GM eco* engine,,, 6K is the limit..

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Yea I wanted to test some of the not so popular brands that had some interesting chemistry first, then a few more of the more popular ones like Millers, Amsoil, Driven XP to see if I can see/cause any differences to show up.. Yea, I have read all I could find on the Dexos oil and it "sounds" like the perfect oil until you think of the things they don't say like comparing it to their non-dexos oil head to head to show how much better it is, what is the lowest aeration achieved, how many seconds for aeration to dissipate...when you step back and look at it, it may be great at aeration but is a lightweight at high temp protection? Anyway I probably won't be testing it,but may change my mind and buy a quart and "run it through the mill"..

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I'd like to suggest Porsche Classic 5w-50 - because it's specifically designed for the 996.

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Well, the same way we have our forum the GM boys have hers,, anecdotally,, if you Own any of the ECO* motors, and run non Dexos, its WHEN not if you'll crunch the VVT/Tensioners, timing chain failure, or Ding ding have bore failure/piston coating failure.. I'm sure the "anti foam" agents are a bandaid for some other obscure engineering fail.. LOL The failure rate on the GM V6 ECO-Tec engines is insane. AN interesting twitch in the story is that if you lookout what's approved, its painfully obvious its a additive package thats specifically makes the oil Dexos... Probably due ot the EPA pressure to extend oil change intervals to meet the Near zero emissions requirements.. (Tin foil hat mode engaged...)

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Good reason, I'll make a note to pick up a qt..and "run it through the mill" That makes good since that the Dexos additive package was design to cure aeration issues on the Government Motors Eco-Tec engines, and I have seen where the Dexos 3 version gives up some film strength for better aeration control over the Dexos 1 and 2 version in the ONLY head to head tests on film strength.. I'll make a mental note of the Dexos package and aeration control, and may even grab a qt, damn the list is getting longer...

Air gets entrained in oil due to leaks, agitation, and exposure to air at the sump's surface. It can lead to a host of issues like foam, premature oil changes, erratic pressure, etc. You don't need special equipment to mitigate the issue. The right top treat will do the job. Check out the folks over at Resolute Additive Technologies . They can hook you up with additives to mitigate your oil aeration problem.

Motul 8100 is an Ester synthetic, maybe add to the mix ? What you are doing is great , and by doing multiple brands you will have quite the baseline of data .

@Porschetech3 Any updates on your testing? I just came back to Rennlist after a while away, and there are a couple of fascinating oil threads!