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Solve this puzzle. What Broke?

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25 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW

Discussion summary

YOUR RESEARCHSolve this puzzle. What Broke?

Reported or suspected cause

thermal runaway

Reported cause

No successful repair reported for this finding.

1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context

Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.

Discussions that report identifying a cause
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Reported cause

That is definitely spun bearings ...note the black discoloring is due to thermal runaway...

Solve this puzzle. What Broke?
Frequently discussed work

Run quite a while

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Suggestion

Have seen a few m96 run for quite a while with a spun/worn out rod bearing, with minor/moderate sounding rod knock, before the whole shell disintegrates to pieces in the sump like in above scenario...

Solve this puzzle. What Broke?
Read full discussion summary

Leading evidence: 'thermal runaway' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'thermal runaway' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Run quite a while' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.

Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.

Read captured replies

1 matching discussions · 25 captured posts examined · 0 partial discussions

Compare 4 other evidence results

Use rtv sealant

Performed · outcome unconfirmed

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context

Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.

Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Performed · outcome unconfirmed

My guess is someone used RTV sealant, which flaked off and blocked the oil pickup, which in turn overheated and spun a bearing or two

Solve this puzzle. What Broke?

Run quite a while

Suggestion or failed attempt

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context

Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.

Discussions that contain suggestions
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Suggestion

Have seen a few m96 run for quite a while with a spun/worn out rod bearing, with minor/moderate sounding rod knock, before the whole shell disintegrates to pieces in the sump like in above scenario...

Solve this puzzle. What Broke?

Run till bearing totally came apart and it was steel

Suggestion or failed attempt

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context

Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.

Discussions that contain suggestions
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Suggestion

Engine was continued to be run till bearing totally came apart and it was steel on steel,,, crank journal on rod big end with bearing completely gone into sump in pieces....

Solve this puzzle. What Broke?

Use globs of silicone

Suggestion or failed attempt

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context

Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.

Discussions that contain suggestions
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Suggestion

Root cause/chain reaction = " incompetent grease monkey" using globs of Silicone that became dislodged and circulated through the timing chains and ended up blocking the oil pick-up tube which caused a low flow of oil which caused a thermal runaway of the bearings resulting in blacked spun bearings .....

Solve this puzzle. What Broke?
Frequently discussed actions (5)

These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.

Run quite a while

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Suggestion

Have seen a few m96 run for quite a while with a spun/worn out rod bearing, with minor/moderate sounding rod knock, before the whole shell disintegrates to pieces in the sump like in above scenario...

Solve this puzzle. What Broke?

Run till bearing totally came apart and it was steel

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Suggestion

Engine was continued to be run till bearing totally came apart and it was steel on steel,,, crank journal on rod big end with bearing completely gone into sump in pieces....

Solve this puzzle. What Broke?

Use globs of silicone

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Suggestion

Root cause/chain reaction = " incompetent grease monkey" using globs of Silicone that became dislodged and circulated through the timing chains and ended up blocking the oil pick-up tube which caused a low flow of oil which caused a thermal runaway of the bearings resulting in blacked spun bearings .....

Solve this puzzle. What Broke?

Use rtv

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Suggestion

When was the last service that used RTV?

Solve this puzzle. What Broke?

Use rtv sealant

No successful repair reported for this finding.

0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Performed · outcome unconfirmed

My guess is someone used RTV sealant, which flaked off and blocked the oil pickup, which in turn overheated and spun a bearing or two

Solve this puzzle. What Broke?
Reported and suspected causes (1)

These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.

thermal runaway

No successful repair reported for this finding.

1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1

0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.

0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.

Reported cause

That is definitely spun bearings ...note the black discoloring is due to thermal runaway...

Solve this puzzle. What Broke?
Coverage and how to read this overview

Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.

25 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.

  • Rennlist: 1 discussions

0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.

0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.

Generation: 20261026T122219Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources

POST 1 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

I am doing forensic on a 996 3.4L 5-chain engine that suffered a low oil pressure event. It looks like a new Short Block is in order. The first picture shows "black non-metal stuff" blocking the oil pick up tube. The second picture shows bits and pieces of metallic ferrous thin pieces of stuff that is sitting at the bottom of the oil pan. What's the black stuff (I have my guess)? What's the metallic stuff that broke?

POST 2Original post

The black stuff looks like ground up chain guide material. I've seen lots of that on VR6's. No idea what the metal is.

POST 3 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

Here are some clues. The black non-mettalic stuff is soft, like rubber, or silicone compound. It's not chain guide.

POST 4Original post

If it was a low pressure event, the metal is most likely layers of the bearing(s). They are a bit crumpled, but do you see any edges that might have been quite straight?

POST 5 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

Thery are not bearing material (although there is a lot of fine bearing dust in the oil). The big metal pieces are magnetic.

POST 6Original post

The piston coatings are ferrous, but I don�t see why those would come off during the event. Maybe they�ve been there for some time. Which also means you likely have bore scoring�

POST 7 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

No bore scoring. The heads are off and I can see the bores.

POST 8Original post

I�m out. I�m guessing based on bits and pieces I�ve picked up over time. Someone else needs to pick up the game�

POST 9 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

Well, if nobody knows, I might just disassemble the short block ...

POST 10Original post

My guess ims chain guide and crank shell or rod bearing material.

POST 11Original post

My guess is someone used RTV sealant, which flaked off and blocked the oil pickup, which in turn overheated and spun a bearing or two

POST 12Original post

Quotes source post: 20048605

i agree if its soft. It hard bits its chain guide. Waiting on op to elaborate.

POST 13 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

The black stuff is soft and rubbery. The metal pieces stick to a magnet.

POST 14Original post

Maybe the black stuff was an oil seal and metal piece were a bearing cage from the IMS bearing?

POST 16 / ORIGINAL POSTEROriginal post

This is the size of the bigger pieces, and they are very thin. I frankly do not know what's inside the motor made of this material.

POST 17Original post

The only place I know that has this ferrous material is piston coatings. Maybe the low pressure event overheated the pistons and the coatings came off during the event. Therefore, no scoring. Maybe a little more info on the low pressure event. What was the described failure? Street, track? Pressure warnings, temperature warnings? No start? As for RTV, where did that come from? When was the last service that used RTV? It�s a lot to block the pickup. Maybe the engine has been pressure starved for sometime and it finally overheated enough. Disassemble!

POST 18Original post

To me, without having pieces in my hand, going only by your pics.... sure looks like bearings pieces. Probably from a spun rod bearing. Although the bearings top coatings are copper & tin alloy, the shell backing plate is steel (magnetic). My guess, oil pressure instability m96 issues, caused rod bearing to get lose then with excessive clearance bearing finally spun. Engine was continued to be run till bearing totally came apart and it was steel on steel,,, crank journal on rod big end with bearing completely gone into sump in pieces.... Bearing failure could have been helped along if the imsb was also going & shedding steel debris, or bore scoring added aluminum shavings helping bearings destruction. Have seen a few m96 run for quite a while with a spun/worn out rod bearing, with minor/moderate sounding rod knock, before the whole shell disintegrates to pieces in the sump like in above scenario... Its a testament to how good some of the m96 design is that it can go for so long with spun bearings without throwing a rod immediately like many engines do... Thats my take with the info I've got....

POST 19Original post

Ooh, too big for timing chain. I'm in the bearing camp.

POST 21Original post

Quotes source post: 20050558

Why can�t this be bearings? Don�t bearings have some magnetic components, especially if the different metals have melted together?

POST 23Original post

That is definitely spun bearings ...note the black discoloring is due to thermal runaway... The bearings have a thin metal steel shell that is lined with a Copper layer ,then a layer of soft "Babbitt" material (Babbitt is lead + tin soft white metal and non-magnetic ) The black rubbery stuff that was blocking the oil pick-up tube is gobs of Silicone that has broken off and gotten chewed by the timing chains.. Root cause/chain reaction = " incompetent grease monkey" using globs of Silicone that became dislodged and circulated through the timing chains and ended up blocking the oil pick-up tube which caused a low flow of oil which caused a thermal runaway of the bearings resulting in blacked spun bearings .....

POST 24Original post

Sounds completely plausible Porschetech3, that's pretty amazing that its spat the shells out! I've managed to save an engine once that literally started knocking as i pulled into my driveway (not a P-Car but a 20v Toyota powered Lotus 7) bearings were just wearing through to copper and didn't even damage the crank. But i had no idea it could spit them out

POST 25Original post

@yelcab did you get this engine apart? Take a picture of the "blue/black" Rods to show Rennlisters what Thermal Runaway from lack of lubrication looks like !!

This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.