OT: Subaru WRX

Hi there and good day!!! I wondered what you guys think of the WRX and it's potential to become a dual purpose track/rally car. I've been looking at Japanese videos "Best Motoring" and WRX's do fly with a number of mods. At 22k-it would seem to be an inexpensive way to add mods and have a excellent track car. I've tracked with alot of WRX's and most I've seen have major understeer like wide arcs making a tite turn but there was one WRX that was modded up and for the life of me could not pass it even on the straight(we're both like keeping same distance on the straight) and it handled extremely well on the turns without any understeer that I saw with previous WRX's I've tracked. Regards. Mike

I had a ride in my friends's wife's WRX about a year ago in England. Scared the crap out of all of us on the way to Brands Hatch for F3 racing. We were flying down the motorway in excess of 120 Mph in that tiny tin can. Banzai BogonWagen! It certainly can get up and go, but I wouldn't ever want to be in one at high speed again.

[quote]Originally posted by Back-n-Black: <strong>I had a ride in my friends's wife's WRX about a year ago in England. Scared the crap out of all of us on the way to Brands Hatch for F3 racing. We were flying down the motorway in excess of 120 Mph in that tiny tin can. Banzai BogonWagen! It certainly can get up and go, but I wouldn't ever want to be in one at high speed again.</strong><hr></blockquote> I have a buddy that test drove one, said that it was scarey... and not in a good way. If you want a turbocharged car that is fun, fast, handles well, and is easy to mod... I would consider a 951. I love my 951 track car.

Hi Mike, I don�t know if its sold yet in the US but you might consider a Mitsu Lancer VII. This also rally based car has a more radical setup than the Subaru. Its listed with 280HP stock, but it actually pumps out around 320-330HP, but Mitsubishi declares 280HP because its the legal HP limit in Japan. It has a electronic-viscous differential for its AWD and is extremly light (around 2800lbs!). It hits 0-60 in about 4.1 secs and has very good agile handling due to the WRC experience and development with this car. Like all AWD's its going to have a bit of initial neutral-understeer which can be modified changing the chasis-suspension setup if you want. The drawback is that due to the fact that its a more sportier-race oriented concept than the Subaru its also a bit more unconfortable and tiresome to drive at the limit, but for the track its an absolute killer for the money. Certainly faster than the Subaru and definately up to par with a 996 in the track. Unfortunately it doesn�t have the finess, reliability, confort, etc of the 996 but if its for the track... I think I�ve recently read that the VII version of the Lacer was finally going to be sold in the US with the same specs as in europe (not a decaf version) There is also tons of aftermarket mods available for these cars from engine to suspensions, etc. like the Subaru WRX but if you though a modded WRX was fast in the track wait 'till you meet a modded Lancer VII. Lets see: only 2800lbs & AWD with 320-320HP and a more radical intended rally derived chasis-suspension setup... already stock!

Hi, The WRX (now modded to the new STI version) and Evo7 are the closest you can get to street legal rally cars. Talkless about the older Subaru P1 (prodrive modded) and the limited series Mitsu Evo6 Tommi Makinen Edition.. Having owned the italian similar '94 Lancia Delta HF Turbo and driven a 350hp modded Subie GT4 that I wanted to buy, i can say that these cars are more like big toys that are meant to be driven like scaled R/C cars! Their only drawback on the Carreras i think is the top speed otherwise the new Evo's and Prodrive rally bred Banzais are getting to be a very close chanllenge to the Porkers.. Track use that is.. As far as elegance, confort and legacy, they only stand more as iconic cars in history but never can be owned as collectibles or showcars.. The aftermarket mods that are available for these cars are incredible and simply irresistible should you own one! I'd surely have a modded 2liter turbo next to my 996 should i wish to complete and satisfy my evo-ness in car experience. Wael 99 996 C2 A.Silver The Legendary Tommi Makinen Evo 6 of Mitsu: This is the Monster from Evo7 Mitsu Banzai Tuning! <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/105450.jpg" target="_blank">http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/105450.jpg</a>

Hey Waz, I bet Nigeria has some great offroad dirt roads to enjoy the Mitsu Lancer Evo VII! I can�t think of anything faster on a dirt, snowed or worn out asfalt curvy road the problem would be maintenance over there since these WRX/Lancer type aren't famous for reliability. What I've heard so far about the Lancer Evo VII version compared to the VI, is that its just as effective but a "bit" more civilized.

The WRX is my favorite car and daily driver! I love this little car (note: future WRX will be (front-end) redesigned slightly for 2004 + model year/s, and rumors of an STI model are out floating there... (Parenthetically, I have a new 2002 Black/natural leather 996 C4S, with soon to be installed Fabspeed exhaust, next Monday, in fact). My new, 2003 Sonic Yellow WRX was retrofited recently w/ VISHNU stage two performance kit, including upgraded Turbo, injectors, fuel pump ECU, Pulley kit, intercooler with silicone hose kit, uppipe-downpipe, full 3" turboback exhaust..., gauges (WT, EGT, FP),StopTech brake kit, DMS 40mm Gold coilovers, SSR comps 17 x 7.5" rims & bridgestone Pole SO3's, Morrette projection headlights for a new front end "look", & much more, etc...the investement was less than an upgrade to the X50 package for the 911 TT Porsche drive, and I have increased my wheel horsepower from stock =147-150 (crank horsepower advertised =227Hp) to --&gt;247 (4-wheel dyno proven)!; figure out what the crank horsepower will be...340-350 Hp). The Engine tuning/management was all performed by Vishnu Tuning: (Call Shiv/Brett at [phone removed])http://www.vishnutuning.com/stage.htm Expected performance from this stage 2 0-60 4.2-4.4 sec. and quarter mile 12.4-12.7 @105-108 mph. <a href="http://www.vishnutuning.com/stagetwo.htm" target="_blank">http://www.vishnutuning.com/stagetwo.htm</a> I considered importing a Mitsubishi Lancer VII (Evolution Imports) but the hassle, DOT regs, title concerns, and other logistics made me defer my decision. I am enjoying my WRX greatly (i.e. FUN), and use it every day! Please go to the Subaru i-club forum for more general info: <a href="http://forums.i-club.com/forums/" target="_blank">http://forums.i-club.com/forums/</a> <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" /> interpath

Pretty sure I read that the Evo VII is only getting an honest 270bhp motor in the US, unfortunately not based upon the stronger RoW motor. I think the expected unit sales are too low to justify the certification. Similar to earlier editions of the M3, it will have one of their current US motors but in higher tune. Less potential. It is still a Good Thing to see US enthusiasts getting access to so much performance at such low prices. Seems like either the WRX or Lancer is a good choice to modify for the track. On reviews, the Evo VII chassis is probably closer to a track setup out of the box, but that might be moot if you are looking to do heavy mods. I guess it would be a good bit more expensive, but aren't we expecting to finally get the Nissan Skyline here too?

Interpath, You made me drewwwwwwl!!! lol!! This is poetry to my ears!! I copied your WRX tuning into my favorite quotes!! Now this is what i call toy car!! Hold on there, lemme read it again.. wow, i'm impressed! Please please, pictures of the whole setup.. Carlos, in this country there are barely cars of that sort, talkess about porsches or ferraris.. There's no way you can find an Evo, and subaru's dont exist here since 1990! There are no tracks, no clubs, no nothing! Yeah, it's the price we pay but then again my 996 keeps me on track! Wael

Interpath, 247 HP at the wheels would mean about 290 at the crank. Coincidentally, 247 at the wheels is what my 993 makes

MITSUBISHI EVOLUTION 7 ARRIVED THE US! <a href="http://www.dreamtrade.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=motionr;action=display;num=1036455235" target="_blank">http://www.dreamtrade.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=motionr;action=display;num=1036455235</a> WRX STi confirmed for USA <a href="http://www.dreamtrade.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=motionr;action=display;num=1036231409" target="_blank">http://www.dreamtrade.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=motionr;action=display;num=1036231409</a> SC'ed GSR vs WRX w/ Vishnu Stg 1 (VIDEO) <a href="http://www.dreamtrade.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=motionr;action=display;num=1036280879" target="_blank">http://www.dreamtrade.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=motionr;action=display;num=1036280879</a>

I too have a WRX and a 996 C4. AWD is great on both cars. The WRX is super easy to modify and the best is still coming out, especially if you are intersted in tuning your own vehicle which many here do not seem to be imo. Personally, I love getting into the inner workings of the car and really do not get caught up in the carbon fiber, clear markers etc. No offense to anyone, just where I'm coming from. The WRX, like many AWD vehicles, has a high loss from the crank to the wheels. As many of you know, the HP and TQ numbers shown on a dyno really aren't gospel, just good for tuning. From what I have seen, Interpath's modifications are pretty accurate to get those performance numbers. As for suspension mods, the car is really quite stiff and can be made to be a decent track performer as well given its ability to rotate like any designed rally car despite the initial understeer. Personally, I am looking to have the power upped to about 300 whp by the end of next week. It is already faster than my 996 up to about 85 mph, so be careful not to be too confident at those stop light grand prixs! Now, if the Lancer was available I would definitely opt for that - as for a Skyline GTR, they are good for up to 1,000HP on stock internals with the right tuning. You gotta love the choices car enthusiasts will have in the next ten years!

Also, if you want a rally car for the street, consider a Escort Cosworth! A friend of mine here at work just completed building one. I'll post some pictures up. A shop down the street from us, <a href="http://www.drakenent.com/draent/rally.htm" target="_blank">http://www.drakenent.com/draent/rally.htm</a> builds them for you, to your specs! Using drivetrain from a Merkur XR4Ti, something to consider. I drove a stock WRX and was thoroughly unimpressed.

[quote]Originally posted by Joe LI: <strong> as for a Skyline GTR, they are good for up to 1,000HP on stock internals with the right tuning. </strong><hr></blockquote> incorrect....they are very expensive engines.... to get a reliable 600hp will cost you 30k they are only 2.6L which means they have to rev.... they are not cheap engines to mod or cheap cars.... wrxs after a certain point become dogs to drive and expensive to mod.... for a track car, a well driven 2wd would be my choice over a 4wd.... anyway, back to the gtr....in australia, new zealand and japan we do alot of gtr tuning (and wrx) and there is no way to get even close to 1000 hp with stock internals... you need to run high boost with these engines, and rev them..... you need stronger block, forged internals etc... they are a dog to drive as a daily driver (built ones anyway) it seems in america the import cars that you are ahead of us with are the 300zx (we've caught up), and hondas.... in terms of street imports i think the japan/australasian region has it all over the US (we get grey imports from japan everywhere) the cost of a decent import track/street car is majorly underestimated... they are not cheap.... any buildup of any engine to get a 10/11 sec quarter or a serious track car is going to cost big $$$ the only cheap hp ive ever heard of (thats capable of 10 secs 1/4s are mazda rx* series with 13b/20b's.... sydney is the capital of rotaries, and have many cheap @ss street mazdas hitting 9's, 10's.... depends what you want your car for.... (btw wrxs are prone to transmission failure big time....a nissan gtr better ditch its box for a 6spd hollinger) still....the buildups you guys want (mild power upgrades, mainly suspension & brakes) probally wont be an issue with these cars... but if you are after a serious buildup, it will cost you $$$$$

I thought of the Lancer Evo VII myself if/when it comes to the U.S. but seems from what I heard will be more expensive then the WRX and since it will be a hot car out of the box- maybe difficult to get one unless paying over msrp and who knows what msrp will be. Out of the box- the lancer got the better package but like any car no matter how perfect it is- gotta mod it up-that's the fun part : ). Regards. Mike

J959 Well, I was meaning 1K hp at the crank, though I see that my earlier statements were based at the wheel. Lots of discussions regarding what that would equate to at the wheels of a AWD car, so I will leave it at that - apologies for the misstatement. 600HP though in my limited knowledge of this car (GTR with the 26dett) is that just by modifying the head gaskets will allow use of high boost along with N2O and a nice fuel cocktail as well as upped fueling and timing will get you close (as well as a pair of nice garrett turbos). I currently use an HKS EVC Pro on my WRX and I could only wish the internals were strong enough (much less the tranny) to support the 3 bars it can hold (well, would need to upgrade the wastegate too at least). But it is a kicka$$ controller, if not overpriced. But back to 999FLT6's original question, the WRX provides a nice starting point (solid chassis, factory turbo car, etc.) that can be easily and cheaply (relative term but figure if you can buy a P-Car then you can have fun modifying a $24K Subie). For $4k (not installed), you can get 300whp no problem. Add in another $3k for a nice suspension system and you can be having fun. The STi is coming out which has some very nice features, some forged internals, etc., as well as a tranny that can handle like 660lb-ft of torque. Shoulda waited!

i have limited experience with gtrs so my info might be a bit off but im pretty sure they need internals long before 1000 at the crank, because they rev so high....a proper, reliable (for a 10sec car) built rb26 will set you back 10's of thousands of $$$(you could just turn up boost, etc but it would not last long) but back to the Rex... i agree it is a great place to start, cheap and affordable tubo 4wd, easily modded (to a degree)... we have quite a few cracking 10 1/4 miles here in australia, but again, they arent cheap... dont worry about the sti...its a waste unless you really want it BECAUSE its an sti... with the price difference (sti's have been around a while in australia) you can make a normal rex better than the sti.... if you want good info on wrx's, check out australia and japan....thats where its at...

by the way...im pretty sure the GTR on ever came with the RB26 twin turbo....thats what (besides brakes, awd etc) differentiates it from the other skylines (with the RB20, RB25 turbos and non turbos) the cars that make 1000hp at the wheels are the full spec 7sec pro japanese drag racing GTR's (veilside, tomei etc) they are FAR from internally standard, they cost a $h!tload to build up, even in relation to a porsche if a guy drives a 600hp GTR, hes wealthy... (like people who pay for boxsters in cash, anyone can get a loan/lease etc...hey if i had a 'proper' job i couldve got a load/lease for a 996tt )

The difference with the STi than the USDM WRX is that you get the upgraded and much stronger 6sp., forged crank and other strengthened internals, a front LSD in addition to the rear LSD and a center diff which is adj front to rear, not to mention 4 piston brembo brakes, upgraded wheels, tires and suspension, larger turo, intercooler and the bits to support the boost (injectors etc). To get this level of equipment (which you want if you are building up a 400+ HP WRX, then it is best to get it factory fresh. The 276 HP number is a pure starting point for these cars and the STi as well as Evos can be reliably pumped up if they have the strong decks, etc., which they do. Now, bring me my new Skyline! I have a deposit (over 2.5 years) for a Turbo Cab, but I think I would take the Skyline instead and build that up with the money I would save.

I like the looks of the STI. With a greater than $30k price, it loses some of its 'bang for the buck' appeal. A co-worker of mine had a 1999 2.5RS that was underpowered but a absolute blast to drive at the limit. I like Subaru's concept of inexpensive performance. I think the WRX would be a great everyday car that satisfies our needs. Just my opinion. Chris

I have a 2002 WRX that's my daily driver/track car. After some suspension modifications you can improve the understeer and stability at speed. I added H&R coilovers and a larger rear sway bar. The aftermarket parts are relatively affordable and the car is easy to work on. Yes, there are some weak points (transmission), but the car is &lt; 25K.

I think the STi will provide even more bang for the buck considering the extra reliability you will get with the beefed up parts which should be able to take you to 400whp in a daily driver...in the end it may cost even less than building up a WRX to get that same level of power and reliability, plus you get the variable valve timing as well.

There's a huge discussion about the Supra turbo (modded) and the GT2 in the 996Turbo forum, it even came close to a fight between the listers... But then again, the German (fransikan) tried his best to prove that no modded bonzai can really be up to a GT2 no matter what.. after all, it's all about taste and opinion. Wael 99C299

Yeah, that discussion was quite, well.... The topic of this one was the WRX as a track car, not as an alternative to a Porsche. Then again, those Mazda MP3's are really showing their ability against BMW's lately in touring car races.

I agree with Joe that the STi would make a better starting point for a track car. You get the 6 speed transmission and a stronger engine. As for the WRX vs. Porsche...I just got my 2003 Turbo, so I'll let you know in a few weeks.

Hey mmm, Have you updraded the turbo or used any engine management? I am having the UTEC put in this week along with a VF34, injectors, uppipe (already have the TXS turboback exhaust, Tein Flex coilovers with EDFC, Cusco sway bars and strut bars, HKS EVC Pro, P1's w/S03's, stainless brake lines, GFB pulleys, Defi BF gauges and silicon hoses) which should make it pretty darn quick on the highway.

Joe, I too am using the UTEC for engine management. Keep a close eye on your EGTs. My other modifications are: H&R Coilovers w/ STi top mounts, Cusco F/R Swaybars, Kartboy droplinks, P1 w/ S-03s, APS turboback, Kartboy short shifter w/ bushings, STi tranny mount, StopTech brakes w/ Pagid Blue (Carbotech Panther+ in rear), Defi BF Gauges (Boost, Oil Press., EGT). Seems we have similar tastes. Just read a review of the new STi, and I think I'll be picking one up in the spring.

Yup - very similar! Even down to the choice of gauges (I have a Defi Pod). I also went with the Prodrive muffler instead of the Magnaflow from TXS. How do you find the boost control of the UTEC? Did not get it installed yet due to my schedule, but the whole reason a sprung for the HKS EVC Pro was due to the ability to tune it based on RPM v. TPS (as well as MPH). I used to have the Cusco Zero coilovers but they were way too stiff for NYC roads.

With the present software, you can tune open loop boost control solenoid duty cycle based on RPM vs. TPS%. An upcoming version of the software will provide closed loop boost control. I haven't modified the settings, nor have I installed their aux. boost controller. I wanted an extra margin of safety, as my EGTs already got up to 860C on the track.