End of model year 02 Deep Discounting?

Anyone have knowledge of MY 02 discounts on C2s? On my first calls to about 10 dealers I am at $5000 below MSRP (roughly $5000 over invoice) with about 1/3 of the calls. You cam imagine know what the others said! All are main stream int / ext colors (Black, Silver, Seal Gray) with mainstream Options (18" wheels, Technic, adv technic, etc). Like in a limbo contest, I am wondering how low they will go. Thoughts, Comments, or even so old fashioned Direct Knowledge and Experience would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Mark M

Just one data point but I happened to stop by a dealer tonight after work and they actually had an '02 Boxster and C2 Cab siting on the floor with SALE signs in the windshield. The Cab was marked down about $7K and that was before you start really negotiating, so I imagine you could do a little better than what was on the sign. Last year by this time they had no '01 models on the lot, so inventory is clearly moving more slowly for them and I'm sure they want to clear out the '02s before the 2003 models start coming in. Karl

We are discounting Carreras a bit, but not more than $4000. Boxsters are in the same area discount. This of course is for the end of model year 2002 sale. The 2003 models will not be discounted when they get here.

Boy do I feel like a "schmo"! I paid sticker for my O2C2 in March. I did order it however. This was my first Porsche and I wanted to have the salesman on "my side" if I had any service problems, and I'd never used this dealer before. Do I ever have egg on my face. Both the Porsche salesmen are gone (fired???) and the sale was completed by an Audi guy. He didn't have an excess of knowledge about Porsche. Now I really wonder what I could have gotten as a discount. I hope I don't need any "horsepower" to get problems solved. I could really use the savings over sticker if I end up having to pay out of pocket for any problems. So far I haven't had any.

Just an observation, but it seems that to get a deal on car you need to leave your home market. In theory you should get a better deal in your own market because the dealer gets the sale, ongoing service, referrals, and potentially a repeat buyer. Unfortunately, I live in Denver!

"We are discounting Carreras a bit, but not more than $4000. Boxsters are in the same area discount. This of course is for the end of model year 2002 sale." Thank God for suckers. It's hard for dealers to even give away an 02 Boxster with the changed Boxster coming out in a month (witness Porsche's unheard of in a decade desperation finance and leasing specials). As for the Carrera, you have some very uninformed, lazy, or cash rich/time poor buyers on your hands if they're paying $4k under sticker. The 01s were being sold at nearly invoice at this time last year and at or below invoice from about 10 months ago on. 02s aren't (and won't be) much different (a little owing to the slight power bump and changes in the 02 over 99-01) at all but a few dealers. "The 2003 models will not be discounted when they get here" Yeah right. Again, only at select dealers. Without even breaking a sweat, I had offers from 3 seperate dealers for $3 to $5k off an 02 cab back in the fall of 01 (just when they were due to come out!). You can guess where I refer people when they ask about where to buy! Guys and girls, do some shopping if your local dealers are offering a mere $4k off 02s and trying to sell 03s at MSRP. They live in a fantasy world wherein their market is unlike 90% of the rest of the USA. It is VERY easy to buy ANYWHERE else in the US and have the car shipped (btw, ALL Porsches are 50 state emmission compliant). Start with Fla dealers. If you feel you just HAVE to give your money away, give it to a charity that actually needs and deserves it. I can certainly appreciate the desire to perpetuate the myth that this hasn't had a DRASTIC affect on the price of 911s (and Boxsters), but it's just that - a myth: <a href="http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=^IXIC&d=c&k=c1&a=v&p=s&t=2y&l=on&z=m&q=l" target="_blank">http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=^IXIC&d=c&k=c1&a=v&p=s&t=2y&l=on&z=m&q=l</a> Your local dealership will happily service your car bought elsewhere as the service dept is an entirely different profit center (which is similarly hurting at most dealerships). Some Porsche dealers won't give you a loaner if you didn't buy there. If your dealer is one of those and charges $4k under MSRP for 02s or MSRP for 03s, take the $4 to $10k savings and rent your own loaner. The balance of power owing to supply and demand has unequivically shifted to buyer from seller in the high-end (any end actually) car market. The mid to late 90s was the seller's turn, it's is now the buyer's. I just love all the "must sell" and similarly worded distressed sales in the back of Autoweek now. You NEVER saw even one of those in the late 90s.

Ben, Great post! I wish I had something intelligent to add to it! Steve '97 993tt

Ben <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> I agree. I have never paid invoce, the last two 996's where 4k to 5k less '00 & '02. Shop shop around! Its worth it!

Well, I actually paid full sticker for my new '02 Turbo and no dealer I contacted was willing to discount them unless they had undesirable options or colors. Most dealers in fact were trying to either get a premium or sell the car at sticker but jack up the financing (typical Porsche). I think the below MSRP deals are on Boxers and standard 996s since there are so many out there both new and especially used. I have heard of some pretty ridiculously low deals on used 996s lately. I think they are going to get even more slammed when the 997 comes out which is unfortunate for current owners.

If you dont ask you dont get. Over the last few years I have helped my bisness partner get a new BMW 5k under another friend get out of a realy bad MB lease and into a great new MB w4k off. It has nothing to do with the model and everything to do with how you and the sales person cut the deal. Happy shopping

Just purchased an '02 Coupe. 5K off of the sticker.

Is my definition of low too low??? Everyone keeps mentioning low prices on used 996's but I'm not seeing dealers go below a 50K negotiated price for a 1999. Private parties all seem to be $48 - $50K for early model 99s with many trying to sell at $53 or so. I fell like I need to wear a bullet proof when I offer a 43K - 44K cash price!

[quote]Originally posted by SkyMast: <strong>Is my definition of low too low??? Everyone keeps mentioning low prices on used 996's but I'm not seeing dealers go below a 50K negotiated price for a 1999. Private parties all seem to be $48 - $50K for early model 99s with many trying to sell at $53 or so. I fell like I need to wear a bullet proof when I offer a 43K - 44K cash price!</strong><hr></blockquote> Mark, I totally agree!!! I'm looking for a 996 right now as well, and a lot of people replied to my post from 2 days ago saying the car I was looking at was way too expensive at $43,000, yet every dealer/classified ad I see EVERY car is at least $51,000! I'm not too sure what to make of it right now and I'm kind of wondering where everybody is finding these low-priced cars... -Marc

Marc, weren't you the guy looking at a 99 with 80k miles????? If so, that car is most certainly in the lowest 1% in the entire country miles wise and should be priced accordingly. That is a BUTTLOAD of miles for a 99 and it WILL cost you more to maintain than would have an ordinary mileage one which might even have been under warranty. I'd be surprised if more than even a couple of Porsche dealers in the country would allow that thing to be seen on their lot. Rather instead, it would make the first trip available to the auction so the wholesalers could peddle it off for a low price keeping an authorized Porsche dealer from being associated with it.

Ben, yes that was me <img src="graemlins/icon501.gif" border="0" alt="[icon501]" /> . But, I still thought what I said was true. I only looked at that particular car because it was the only one I could find under $51,000, and $45,000 is my cut off. The exterior and engine were perfect, it was only the interior that was worn, and the motor (having only 20K miles) still had a year of warranty left. BUT, since last night I have looked at some auction reports and indeed there are TONS of 996's with 20-30K miles for around $36,000 to $40,000! I can't believe dealers are charging $10,000 to $15,000 above wholesale for these!!! So, now I have to eat my words from last night and agree with you guys. I guess you can find one if you hold out long enough, and I'm sorry. Hope you guys can forgive me! -Marc Konchar

Where can you view the auction reports?

SkyMast, My father has something to do with a leasing company and he receives the Manheim Auto Auction Market Reports every week that shows all the cars that went through. For example, on August 23rd a 1999 996 Carrera with 37,000 miles sold for $37,200. A 1999 996 Carrera Cabriolet with 56,000 miles sold for $40,000. Every 1999 996 Carrera with 30,000 to 40,000 miles I see for sale online is at least $51,000!!!

Hello Guys. Here's my take on it. A dealer goes out and buys a 99 for let say $40,000. He then has to pay a buy fee and transportation cost to get it back to his dealership. He now has $41,000 in it. Then spends the money for the Porsche certification with a warranty, pays a Porsche certified technician to look it over ie. make all necessary repairs (interior blemishes, exterior blemishes, oil leaks, tires (and we know how much they cost), etc, etc. etc.) By the time it gets to the lot the dealership owns the car for $45,000. The dealership also has operation cost that gets applied to each and every car they sell (interest paid on cars, advertising, lights, phone, title clerks, etc. etc. etc.) So now they now own the car for $47,000 And yes ! The dealership has to make a profit. Sold for $53,000 Thats just my take.

"I only looked at that particular car because it was the only one I could find under $51,000, and $45,000 is my cut off." Here's one even cheaper: <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1854710132" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1854710132</a> As you can see, you get what you pay for :-) "BUT, since last night I have looked at some auction reports and indeed there are TONS of 996's with 20-30K miles for around $36,000 to $40,000! I can't believe dealers are charging $10,000 to $15,000 above wholesale for these!!" No, what they're waiting for is a bunch of suckers to come along. "Asking" price means NOTHING. START at the auction prices. Most of those cars will go to the auction between 60 and 90 days after they've arrived at the dealers lot as a matter of policy. Don't let them kid you that they aren't desperate to move em - cause they are. "Every 1999 996 Carrera with 30,000 to 40,000 miles I see for sale online is at least $51,000!!!" Again, "asking".

Are the ebay selling prices indicative of the Porsche market in general? I've been tracking '99, '00, '01 996's with &lt;20K miles. I've seen a lot of final bids in the $50000. range, but I've seen very few sold for that price.

From what i have seen on eBay over the last 6 weeks, most Porsche's are priced to high and not selling. Also, bidders seem to be active under the reserve price with few venturing above. The few 99's I have seen that have been sold were in the $45 - 47.5K price range. I am a huge eBay fan but i can tell you that with few, and i mean few, exceptions, the 99 996s i looked at were 1) multiple owner cars, 2) Auction cars; 3) wrecked; 4) Overpriced; and / or 5) not as represented. This is my experience after looking at about 20 and finally giving up! By the way, how do you like the ocean blue color of you car??

[quote]Originally posted by ben in lj: <strong>Here's one even cheaper: <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1854710132" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1854710132</a> As you can see, you get what you pay for :-)</strong><hr></blockquote> Thanks Ben, but I think I'll DEFINATELY pass on that one!

Skymast - I really like the color. It has a little red in it so where the sun is not directly on the paint it looks a bit purple. In direct sunlight the metal flake lightens the dark navy blue color. Thanks for the insight on the eBay cars. Since I'm not looking to buy one I didn't dig into their background. The dealer where I just bought my '00 is selling a 4500 mile, full leather, 18" Turbo look, Technic package C4 for $66.9K. They sold the car to its one owner. Think they'll get that price? What are you buying?

Ahh we all want to "beat the system" and not pay too much. Well, here are a couple of things to consider. You can buy a car at the Mannheim auction. You just have to go there with a dealer. Find a good reputable independent used car dealer and see if they'll bring you along for say $500 or $1000 over the selling price if you buy that day. (This is technically against the auction rules, but it's done all the time. I've done it many times) You'll need cash to pay for the car that day. Unless the dealer will 'carry' you. You'll also need to check the car over VERY carefully, before you bid because these are sometimes repaired cars, off lease, repossessed etc. But you'll save a lot. Another option--find a local owner who loves his car. Someone who hand washes it, dotes over it and babies the hell out of it. Offer him more than a dealer would buy it for, but less than full dealer retail. If he's smart (and depending on circumstances--motivated) he'll take your offer. You'll save a little, but probably know what you're getting a little more certainly. And you won't have paid full retail.

Two very good points in this post: 1. [quote] Well, I actually paid full sticker for my new '02 Turbo and no dealer I contacted was willing to discount them unless they had undesirable options or colors...I think the below MSRP deals are on Boxers and standard 996s since there are so many out there both new and especially used. I have heard of some pretty ridiculously low deals on used 996s lately. <hr></blockquote> There are many good deals out there these days, however they relate to baseline C2s and Boxsters. Turbo's (including the X50 and TT), and the C4S' are still selling at premiums. 2. [quote] ...Dealer goes out and buys a 99 for let say $40,000. He then has to pay a buy fee and transportation cost to get it back to his dealership. He now has $41,000 in it. Then spends the money for the Porsche certification with a warranty, pays a Porsche certified technician to look it over ie. make all necessary repairs (interior blemishes, exterior blemishes, oil leaks, tires (and we know how much they cost), etc, etc. etc.) By the time it gets to the lot the dealership owns the car for $45,000. The dealership also has operation cost that gets applied to each and every car they sell (interest paid on cars, advertising, lights, phone, title clerks, etc. etc. etc.) So now they now own the car for $47,000 And yes ! The dealership has to make a profit. Sold for $53,000 <hr></blockquote> An intelligent post. I agree with the train of logic completely, which explains why despite buying at a low wholesale price, most dealers would be luck to make 5K on a '99 C2 Coupe. Regards.