Better cooling AC

So we're just getting into summer, which is great and usually more fun when you go out for a drive in most parts of the world, unless you live in Dubai or somewere similar. Its mid day end of May now and temperature is currently hovering around 42C / 107F . This can easily hit 50C / 122F by the time we are in July August timeframe! So the question is this, apart from the regular maintenance for my 1999 C2 996's AC, is there any way to make it run cooler than what it was designed for? Any aftermarket parts that could help? Would appreciate feedback from anyone who's done any kind of upgrade to a 996 AC.

Have you had your car through a Dubai summer yet? I live in Arizona were our summer temps are usually over 110F for a good part of the summer. My car rarely runs hotter in July than in December, although the engine deck lid fan runs more often. Standard set up, no third radiator, etc.

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The question was about A/C Not the running temp of engine

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I should never post before 8am!

Is everything in your system up to spec? Rads and condenser clear of any debree, evaporator clear of any dust, etc?

Not aware of any aftermarket mod to the AC to make it run cooler. Meanwhile, items below might help: 1. when was the last time radiator was cleaned? 2. coolant flushed and filled? 3. refrigerant recharged?

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How does the A/C perform in that heat? Both my 02 Boxster and my 03 Turbo have been in up to 118F heat and while for instance in one high heat event in the Turbo going from Flagstaff west on I-40 past Kingman and over to Needles CA and beyond the glass was hot to the touch the auto climate temp was set to 72F and the cabin temp was quite comfortable. More than once after noting the outside temp display on the dash of my Turbo I'd have to glance over at the A/C display and was pleased to note the cabin fan speed was not even at the halfway point. The A/C was able to maintain cabin temperature in spite of the heat and blazing sunlight without having to blast air into the cabin. In short you may be trying to fix something that ain't broke. For upgrading the A/C I'm not sure what you can do, easily. More pressure at the compressor could aid cooling but the system at times already operates at its highest (safe) pressure so to get more pressure you'd have to upgrade to a different compressor and then worry about the system holding this pressure. More cooling capacity at the front would be needed too. The condensers have to remove the heat compressing the refrigerant creates. Bigger (more surface area) condensers are probably out of the question so you are left with increasing the air flow through the existing ones. Under some high ambient heat and A/C load conditions the fan speed gets bumped to high so you'd have to find fan motors that run at a higher speed and of course find fan blade/hub assemblies that could take the higher speed safely. Best I think would be for you to ensure the radiator ducts are clean, clear of any debris and the condensers and radiators are clean and free of any grime that can interfere with cooling. Be sure both fans are running and switch from low to high when they should. Keep the cabin air filter fresh. As best you can avoid letting the car sit in direct sunlight and thus build up a big heat load that has to be removed by the A/C. Even if you have to park the car in a parking garage out of direct sunlight and walk a bit to where you are going I think is better, though of course there's your comfort to consider. Be sure the car's engine cooling system is in tip top shape. The coolant tank cap can be the source of a coolant leak and if the coolant tank is "old" it can be at risk of developing a crack that can turn into a severe coolant leak at any time. Inspect the water pump for any sign of failing seals. A bit of coolant stain is ok on the pump flange but the stain size should be small and there should never be any sign of wet coolant. Also when the engine is cold and off check the serpentine belt for any signs of sharp edges developing. This can be an early sign an accessory drive is developing play in its bearings/shaft and in my experience the accessory drive guilty of this is the water pump. Oh, you might consider window tinting in your situation. Cutting down on the amount of infrared energy that gets into the cabin can only help the A/C perform better.

Other than window tint...a MUST! Temporary, QUICK, fix..!! 1. Turn the system down lo the lowest setpoint, MAXIMUM cooling. 2. Use the recirculate mode ONLY. 3. Use the blower speed to moderate the cooling level. To avoid exterior windshield fogging in a HUMID climate always CLOSE the windshield defog/demist/defrost airflow path. The above procedure will bypass the system's reheat/remix airflow path and as an added benefit the FE will improve slightly and the engine might run cooler due to the lower heat loading on the radiators. Long term fix. In the US I would suggest going to home depot and buying/installing a manually operated water flow shutoff valve to install in the coolant line flowing into the heater core.

Hey Gents, Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. To answer a few questions / points; I've had the car for almost 2 years now, I've had the AC checked / maintained by a specialist and have used it all last summer and almost throughout ever since. It’s not that the AC doesn’t cool, it does, it’s pretty decent, but in peak summer / mid day, it barely cuts it. Maintenance done included cleaning, coolant flushing and filling, as well as change of belts. Fans are running fine. Engine cooling system is running fine, no signs of leakage / loss of coolant, or running hot. Will double check water pump. I have had tinting windows on my to do list so that is a must. I'll pull out the tool box for that radiator / condenser cleanup job this weekend. Would adding a 3rd / center radiator help? I know it would with the running temp but any impact on AC? Thanks

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Don't see how adding a 3rd radiator would help the A/C. The condensers are located ahead of the radiators so the condensers already get the as cool of air as there is. You might look into an aero kit for the car. I'm thinking one that comes with a front air dam that reduces the amount of air that goes under the front of the car. These generally help air flow when the vehicle is moving through the radiators as they lower the air pressure under the car. For an example look at the front air dam of a 996 Turbo. The one on mine hangs down really low. If you enjoy high speed driving though you want a kit that is balanced front and back. I'm always loathe to slap a big old air dam on the front of the car without proper modification at the rear of the car to balance downforce so the overall balance of the car is kept the same as stock. Without access to a wind tunnel you will have to rely upon the reputation of the company to know you are getting a good system one that offers real aerodynamic improvements other than simply stating it does on the box. The only company that I know of off hand that I would rely upon is TechArt. See link: http://www.techart.de/en/techart-sho.../exterior.html My info is when a company sells something that it claims offers aerodynamic benefits it has to provide something to back this up, like I guess how the pieces/parts decrease lift or increases downforce. If this holds any interest for you you'll have to do your research, see what's available, and what it claims to offer. There might be some benefit to fitting an overdrive pulley to the A/C compressor. But where you would get one -- other than having one custom made -- and what the ramifications from doing this are I can't say.

Macster you are a data bank, I like your thought process! And agree on all points, but honestly, if it hasnt been tried and tested, I'm not gonna take a chance with a custom pulley. Same concept as with the aero kit; either its all from a reliable brand which has been tested and works well together, or keep things stock. Appreciate all the feedback, I'll do the radiator / condenser clean up and the tinting and take it on from there. Thanks

In the air cooled world, Griffiths is a well respected a/c vendor. I notice that on their website, they mention 996 parts. I have no idea if they will help your situation, it is probably worth a call or email to hear what they say. http://www.griffiths.com/porsche/

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I have little doubt that tinting the windows, rear especially, wille of great help, maybe even "enough" help. Modern day automatic climate control systems, 996/997 inclusive, are as much about avoiding driver and passenger DISCOMFORT, as they are about COMFORT. With my 2001 RX300, or even my 1995 LS400 I find I have to interact with the system manually in many situations. In the wintertime in order to bring the cabin up to a more comfortable temperature quickly I turn the setpoint up to maximum heating (blower follows as does footwell ONLY air outflow) until the cabin reaches my comfort level. Then I switch it to fully automatic but ALWAYS disable the A/C compressor. My '01 C4 has an added switch to open the compressor clutch circuit throughout the winter period. In the summer the opposite is true, the system initially gets set for maximum cooling...

When you tint the windows, spend the extra money for ceramic tint, this will significantly reduce the amount of heat in the car from the sun's rays.

There is no aero kit or smaller electromagnetic clutch for the compressor, on the planet that will make the factory perform any better than when it came off the assembly line. The system is limited by the evaporator inside the cabin. Therefore, this is as good as it gets.

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I suspect he (assumption) means to say that since the evaporator can never be internally cooled below 32F absent hitting the "wall" , ICE wall. That minimum evaporator temperature of 32F defines the limit for cooling the cabin atmsophere and contents. Other than a ton more airflow, along with the continued ability to sustain the evaporator very close to 32F, noisy, chilling, discomforting airflow, that's pretty much the case.

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Damn that is a great answer !!!!

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Except it's incorrect.

996 AC a bit weak? Go buy a 911SC or other early 911 and you'll really have something to bitch about! But I'll pile-on anyway... Mine seems to cool pretty well, but damn those fans are noisy on high speed!

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How so?

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As I said before, the limitation is inside the cabin. The evaporator needs to be bigger to move more air through it. For example, some 928s have rear AC, its an additional evaporator in the rear console. Besides the extra evaporator/heat exchanger and some extra tubing, these cars have no additional cooling system parts. Same compressor and condensor as the single AC models. Just think about it and it will make sense. Macster can write very convincing and extremely long posts but that doesn't make them correct.

My 996 has the coldest a/c of any car I have ever owned. Crank it to max on a hot summer day and you will need to wear a winter coat!

Cosmo Kramer, record high temperature ever recorded in Guelph ON is 38C / 101F, with averages running around 26C / 79F peak summer. My problem is due to my location, Dubai, average summer temperature during the day is 41C / 106F, and on many occasions we hit +50C / 122F mid day. Extreme weather differences. Winters here are similar to Guelph summers, and I have nothing to complain about my AC then. Just trying to figure if there is anything that could be done to tweak it a little, a little extra airflow, couple degrees lower cabin temperature, etc.. would all help. Truth is, if I was driving a simple Japanese sedan, I'd have a much cooler AC and cabin. Was wondering if I could somehow upgrade my AC to perform slightly better. I will start with the simple stuff (cleaning / tinting) and then take it on from there. Appreciated all the feedback.

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I get where you are coming from, I was just noting that it cooled better then most other cars I have had, including basic Japanese and domestic sedans. Imo is right, you are pretty much limited by the size of the evaporator. Vent temperatures increase when the outside ambient temperature increases and there is no way around it. Tinting the windows will definitely help (cooler air in means cooler air out). Also follow the attached test procedure from the WSM to ensure your system is within spec, if not something may be wrong. Good luck!

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Japanese sedan...cooler... Yes, my LS400, for instance, has triple sealed doors, lots of sound insulation (which also functions to insulate the cabin for exterior HEAT), and very restricted cabin air outflow. Plus aftermarket window tint. The tinted windows are more about "insulating" you AND the cabin material surfaces from the effects of RADIENT heating. RADIENT heating not only directly from the sun but also indirect RADIENT heating from the entire outside surround.

My second thought is maybe a quicker cabin initial cooldown via a momentary water spray/mist just forward of the front condensor/radiator/fan "stack".

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I owned my 996 for 4 years with well over 100 days above 100 degrees over that time and never had an issues with the A/C in the 996. Given the dual A/C condensers and large amount of vent space, it is a very good system from the factory. If you are getting substandard cooling, it is most likely a maintenance issue or worn out components. The first thing to do is to clean the condensers (should be done once a year on a car without screens). I did it myself when I had my 996. It takes less than an hour to pull the bumper, take the condensers loose, clean the condensers and radiators. Once those are clean, if you are still having issues start by checking for leaks then checking the compressor (pressure), condensers (damage from road debris) and evaporator core. Also be sure to change the interior carbon filter once a year (it's in the trunk).

Ok so I just did the radiator and condenser clean up job, and one by product of this is that the car will surely be running faster; car lost 2 pounds in weight from all the dirt that was stuck in there, and i lost another 3 doing this job in 105F temperature! But seriously the amount of stuff that came out was ridiculous, and everything you could possibly think of short of a kitchen sink. Don't think its ever been cleaned. Bumper back on and i left the car running in the driveway a little and i can see the difference, engine is running a notch or two cooler and A.C. feels cooler ( maybe psychologically). Anyway, will do a road test later then I'm left with the tinting. Thanks for all the tips. Cheers.

My suggestions are not meant to be the only word but are offered with the intent to get one thinking on the subject. There may be other limitations to more cooling. The size of evaporator may be a limiting factor if the rest of the system is performing up to par. Before I started any serious mods to my car's A/C system I'd consult with an A/C shop and get their input. In a hot climate area like the OP is in I can't believe this issue hasn't come up before if not with Porsches with other cars. The A/C shop might offer the opinion my suggestions are all wet and I'm ok with that. The important point is that the OP has consulted with an expert in this area and has the best info upon which to act. I do note that my advice to make sure the existing system is in good shape, including the radiator ducts being clear of debris, was acted upon by the OP and he reported finding a lot of trash in the ducts. While improved cooling may be psychological it may be real. I hope so. Given my experience with the A/C in both of my cars I find it hard to believe the system is not up to the demands of where the OP lives/drives.

Have you ever had foam blowing out of your vents? If so, the flap for the temperature mix between the AC evaporator and heater core is a metal plate with large holes in it that is covered with foam. When the foam comes off, the utility of the flap is negated. Typically this is associated with loss of heat in cold temperatures, and may have nothing to do with your problem; I haven't looked at the diagrams enough to see if cooling would be impacted. Maybe someone more familiar with the system will weigh in. But if it is potentially a problem, here's a link to the fix: http://www.renntech.org/forums/tutor...the-procedure/ I certainly can sympathize with your plight. I spent six months in the Arabian Gulf as a communications officer in the Navy and my radio shack, which should be about 60 degrees would typically be about 90 degrees. We had some broke-a$$ radios!

If you get a chance call Porsche North Scottsdale in Arizona, they sold me a package of some type off specialty refrigerant that makes my A/C so cold it's a meat locker in my car. I think they guaranteed it would be xx degrees colder than it was and it is. I cannot remember the name of the product/service they did, call and pretend your interested and pick their brain, it works....[phone removed]

I think this is it: http://www.icecoldenergysolutions.com/IceCOLD/Home.html

Watch this: http://www.icecoldenergysolutions.co...s_IceCOLD.html

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Another "Granatelli" product? Reads/views like....

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The problem here is that even when you talk your way into a corner, you still refuse to admit being wrong and just keep trying to justify how right your suggestions were. The strategy to give so many options to a problem leaves a good chance that one of them might be close enough to it that is can be looked at as a proper diagnosis. BUT the key is not the quantity of the suggestions but the quality. Most people when they look for a solution/suggestion have no interest in having a dozen or so to choose from. One, two and maybe three at the most is what should be given. Anymore and all of a sudden the solutions become over whelming and the "client" becomes frustrated that they need to pick one. The throw everything that you can think of method can be more damaging than not to say a thing. Less is more.

Apologies for radio silence, was on a long work trip outside town and didn't get the chance to respond earlier. First of all, allow me to express an opinion with regards to responses; I honestly find it quite alright when members post a response with a number of options and suggestions, specially in a case like this when there probably hasn't been a lot of mods going into A/C systems, not the usual thing people do upgrades on I think. A response such as that sent from Macster, even though I may not implement many aspects of which may give me points to think about and 'thought starters' on areas I missed and may want to research. Lets call it brain storming, and I as a seeker for a solution, would pick and choose at my own risk and discretion. Any response is welcome in my book, and thanks to all who took the time and effort to respond. Zapna, thats a great point, didn't occur to me before but yes I had foam blown out from the vents a while back. Your point makes a lot of sense, It must be one of the culprits. I looked into the disassembly process and I'm a little intrigued though, will do more research and dive into it. White99c2 I like your suggestion, product looks very interesting, could help. I'm trying to find it on the market here, otherwise I'll order some online and take it on from there. I think in summary, my task list has been outlined; 1. Radiator & condenser clean-up 2. Tinting windows 3. Fixing / replacing foam on AC vent flap 4. Researching / adding IceCold I'll keep you all posted on results once full job has been completed. Many thanks.